Hi Sleigh, even with that many Steel Hellkites, Wurmcoil Engine, Batterskull, and Greaves maindeck, Goblins are still a problem? I think more reliable mana sources would be the solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleight
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Hi Sleigh, even with that many Steel Hellkites, Wurmcoil Engine, Batterskull, and Greaves maindeck, Goblins are still a problem? I think more reliable mana sources would be the solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleight
It's been nearly a year i've last touched a mtg card and picking up again. MUD always was in my favoured list.
I see that a 12-post manabase is now in favor. How is that working out in terms of speed and/or stability compared to the earlier setup?
I like the look of the list, plain and simple. How much do you like the 12-post manabase? Isn't Crucible of Worlds not a logical addition as a 1-off?Quote:
Originally Posted by zmayo
3spehere has won me games versus combo more than once on occasion. Replacing it with Tangle Wire asks more of a Goblin Welder approach since you can start swapping it for resets or other tricks.
Speaking of which, is Goblin Welder any good nowadays?
How will that work?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sleight
My experience with Phyrexian Revoker is that is died to quick for it the make a big difference. I will be swapping it with Pithing Needle which can actually take care of Wasteland
Welder is a fine card, but the majority of us believe that Chalice is better at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesir
I've never had a problem running Goblin Welder and Chalice of the Void together. Especially with Cavern of Souls.
But with the different Manabase this could be different. I just wonder which is the more stable version.
The time i played the Welder list it was pretty flexible, but could be clunky at times.
The Revoker's tend to name early threats from your opponent such as DRS or Stoneforge. They basically gum up the field along side man lands so your opponent either can't attack profitably or can't attack all in. This in turn allows you to get the mana out to cast a hellkite, Bskull, or Wurmcoil and start to stablize.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
I had tested using more than 1 Needle in my 75 and found that, if you want to run it, 1 seems to be the right amount so you don't run into Chalice problems. I feel with chalice in the deck Revoker is the better choice, but there are situations where it would be nice to have needle instead.
@darkghost
Maybe I just need more practice in the Goblins match up. I just seemed to die right before I stablize. Lock peices always seem to get played around fairly well, along with Ports causing a nuasance as well.
@Bobmans: the metagame nowadays pretty much includes grave-hate. Welders become unreliable that way. A lot of creature removals make Metwalworker unreliable as well. 12post is always unstable, it can be quite good or quite bad for us. Though, colorless builds tend to be more stable.
@Sleight: Do you keep the 3sphere vs non-counterspell tempo decks? The sphere are usually the first ones I take out for the Bombs/AiDs.
Board for goblins looks like -3 sphere +2 all is dust 1-3 rbombs. On paper this match up is probably pretty easy for my list, I just always end up messing up on ratchet bombs, also I debate on the play if I keep trinisphere in or not.
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I don't like all is dust against wasteland/rishadan port decks, the reason it is on my sideboard is mainly jace decks and miracles. It's a clean answer to planeswalkers and can't be countered by counter balance. I don't like the idea of trying to cast 7 mana cards against mana denial decks.
Well sleigh ur list kinda looks like mine with the copper gnomes and inkmoth nexusses.
Id never drop trinisphere against goblins, if u can open with it its very good. They wont do anything for 3 turns. Plus lackey & co are very annoying fast cards that like to swarm on you.
I have been thinking about needle over revoker, sometimes they destroy revoker and its gg for them. But revoker has more benefits in other games because it also adds presure and it is a decent chump blocker in the format.
I dont get why people still run staff o domination. Its totally situational random win. Often its a death top deck. My advise is to run actual threads.
Copper gnomes are my pet creatures. Solland, gnomes pass solland pass eot drop colossus. :laugh: uncounterable. I only board them out often g2 if im not playing counters to add more hate against aggro or storm.
I have 3 duplicant in my side and its awesome. Of course against sneak show or reanimate but often also against creature heavy decks as spot removal. 6 mana is very doable.
I really like staff. I have put it in on show and tell to tap down fatties before. Also anything that can draw me a card late game I like. Apart from being an auto win card if you have a metalworker out +3 artifacts in hand, it does work gumming up board until you can get a better threat out.
I've been thinking of splitting up Phyrexian Revokers and Pithing Needles since my last tourney. Echoing Truth from SnS would not have affected me if I had a Revoker and a Needle both named on Sneak Attack. Then again, we mostly have Chalice set to 1...
Modified MUD Stompy
Creatures (15)
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Lodestone Golem
3 more Wurmcoil and Hellkites (Godo, Bandit Warlord)
2 Batterskull or Lightning Greaves or split
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth or Coercive Portal
Artifacts (21)
4 Metalworker (Mox Diamond)
4 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance (Thalia)
4 Tangle Wire
1 Crucible of Worlds
Lands (24)
4 Rishadan Port
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Buried Ruin (Cavern of Souls)
2 Ghost Quarter (Karakas)
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
Sideboard (colored build)
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Manriki Gusari
1 Siren Song Lyre
1 Sword of Fire and Ice?
3 Helm of Obedience
1 Trading Post
1 Blinding Powder
2 Pithing Needle
2 open slot
Im just fooling around with lists. The cards in brackets (as a set) are what I'll run for fun. 8 mana sources for color, plus 2 whites from Karakas. Otherwise, the colorless side of things is under development. I can also have Magus of the Moon SB. Any suggestions are welcome for the colorless or colored for fun build.
I have the feeling coercive portal might not suck as a.. 3/4 off.. im testing it now :eek:
Expectations: more mana > play more bigger threads.. steel hellkites, wurms.. maybe even some bigger ones.
cards that would benefit from more draws:
metalworker (obviously, more cards = more mana)
staff of d. (maybe 2 draws a turn can finaly mean a kill even when top decked?)
I'll want to grab 4 of those just in case. They are also not that pricey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Holland
Has anyone done testing with the portal at all?
Ive been testing it replacing staff of nin in post version (x2). Its been very promising as 4 mana is better than 6 regarding reliability and gives an extra card basically . Needs more testing competitivelyQuote:
Originally Posted by Sleight
A list without Vesuva, and with Crystal Vein instead:
Http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/76109
I agree with you, the problem is not the anti-synergy between cotv at 1 and welder. They run together perfectly fine, as you say. I am currently writing a primer about MUD (in French), and here are my thoughts about the welder list:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Imo, Cavern of souls make the welder build largely obselete, as Cavern of souls give a guarantee that the big creatures we cast do enter the battlefield. It is ironic to see that a land that can provide any color of mana is responsible for the vanishing of welder and the birth of the uncolored build, but it is what happened. Welder was a way to get the creatures back on the battlefield once they were countered. But including welder give many constraints to the deck: inclusion of moxes/petal/mountains, which are bad cards in a ramp deck, and often great furnace which are even worse. When Deathrite shaman, rest in peace and abrupt decay were issued, the already shrinking welder build disappeared almost completely from the competitive scene. It is too slow, too mana greedy and the exit of the "welder pack" gives some room for better card, like sundering titan and a more stable mana base.
I made it to top 8 with a Forgemaster list today. I lost to rUG threshold in top8. Game 1 I couldnt resolve/keep a threat. Playing around soft counters while getting beaten down by delver/goyf/mongoose is tough. Game 2, Stifles and Ancient Grudges got me (I knew he had a Stifle in hand so I baited that... But really, he had 2). How do we win this match up? But I'm more so guessing that he was just lucky drawing multiple of hate against me.
One of the reasons I've stopped playing this deck for now is the fact that there is a lot of variance when it comes to a lot of match ups with the deck. Against RUG in my experience it comes down to mud winning the die roll, and not mulliganning itself to death. It does annoy me how people always say that delver is a good match up because in reality it isn't. I usually just try to play wasteland as the first land on the draw to play around daze. I never play around spell pierce since it doesnt have a very high upside for a high opportunity cost. You can't really play into daze since the tempo swing they get is so huge and with all the mana in the deck its not too hard to invalidate the card. You really just have to hope to develop your manabase or resolve a lock piece on the play. RUG has been, in my opinion the toughest matchup for the deck because of all the soft counters and wastelands and even stifles to a lesser extent but the clock plus disruption is pretty hard to beat on the draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkghost
Got some test games in against Miracles and Post today. Wrecked Post and the went even against Miracles. The games were interesting and grindy, but most were decided upon wether the pilot had counters for the first few turns. Got a few tourneys coming up next week, so I'll post how this deck does.