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Contagion - Remove one card clause makes it unplayable no matter what the card does
hell no, it's one of the best possible MUs, the deck is even worse than classic UWr vs Storm, 0 T1 play, 0 Daze, 0 pressureQuote:
Originally Posted by Madsk
in - Storm spell, all kill spells
out - preordains, CR, LP, basic land ... if you board out 2nd CR or even LED you have to have damn good reason for it
Regarding sawatarix's list: is maindeck thoughtseize that bad of an idea? I know flashbacking it can really hurt, but it is certainly better than in the ad nauseam builds, and it can improve some of the matchups aggainst this version isnt as good as the traditional one (since its a little bit slower and grindier)
You are 100% correct. No need to be soft tongued here. I'm sorry guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
@Contaigon (the adequate answer Version): the issue with this card aside the fact that Teeg blocks it and it really hurts off Ad Nauseam is the sheer mana- or card-Investment it requires. As we have barely a way to create cardadvantage, 2-for-1'ing ourselves is a unbearable move to come back from behind (aka hatebears already hit the board). Massacre is a much more Economic way to clear the board from hatebears even if we can't abuse it in other matchups (like Delver or Elves). I guess if you want to take a look at less conditional sweepers than Massacre, Pyroclasm is worth a try.
I've played Pyroclasm in ANT more than a couple times, and every time it's been more appealing in theory than it's been in practice. I think Bolt is decent if you really want to zap Delvers/Elvers, and Massacre/Chain/Decay are fine as is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Went 5-0 in my local FNM (19 people) with again the same decklist (sawatarix's grinding station +tropical -bayou +1 warrens - 1tendrils MD, +2 massacre -2 dread of night (dread is great with AN, but massacre is great vs UWR delver) +1 Meltdown -1 Krosan Grip SB)
Got paired against:
Bug Delver (2-0)
Miracles (2-0) (g2 opponent had a flusterstorm set on top with sdt, i casted infernal tutor, breaking led and discarting a PIF, searched for another PIF, casted it, got countered, and then going off next turn, having the possibility of going off the next turn also. That was pretty awesome)
Miracles (2-1) (g2 double tendrils won me vs a hand with double fow (double blue pitch) and a flusterstorm)
Elves (2-0)
Elves (2-0)
Im not entirely sold on the SB anyway. Although the nauseam plan is great (g2 vs elves i sided out 2 pif, 1 tendrils and 1 warrens for 2 nauseams 1 chrome mox and 1 CoV) since we can signifcantly reduce the CMC of the deck, but im not sure 2 nauseam is the way to go. I think if i can find another card that can help going off faster without such high CMC it would be optimal. Spoils of the vault comes to the top of my head, although its not very synergical with ad nauseam. Also SB Burning Wish may have some edge: If we bring it in in games where we side out all of our pifs and extra storm spells, it can help reduce the overall cmc, while letting us have massacre available in case we need it, and PIF or ToA/Warrens. Plus, in the mirror or fast combo matchups we can always use it to fetch discard. All of this without having to commit sb cards for wishboard; its just natural to our sb plan when we need speed to remove the pifs and extra storms.
On November, 23rd I made top8 in a 108 people tournament with a maindeck almost identical to yours (http://www.metagame.it/liste-mazzi-l...le-emilia.html : missing cards are 3 cabal therapies).Quote:
Originally Posted by kkkant
I have been toying with Grinding Station for a couple of months, and I sleeved an old list of Jona's with some sideboard techs to fight Miracles. I didn't expect combo at all.
Unfortunately, I didn't get paired against the fair decks I wanted to fight, and I had to defeat combo decks all day (with a little bit of luck) to reach top8.
My impressions on this list are:
- you are often too much dependent on your starting hand;
- I miss preordains too much: sensei's top doesn't add speed to the deck and makes your play one turn slower;
- you have a good match-up vs. fair decks, still blackblade is quite hard in my opinion because of discard;
- despite my results, combo mirrors are not in your favour at all: reanimator, dredge, TES are a nightmare if you don't have a dedicated sideboard;
- ad nauseam seems to be the best weapons from the sideboard, so I am still asking myself if it makes sense playing a maindeck without :P
I played the card. It's really hard to resolve against decks with Spell Pierce and/or discard, plus it's super awful in AdN.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
English only. Saves lots of headaches. ;-)
Contagion is really bad against Teeg, right?
It's not "super awful in AdN" and it is certainly not that hard to resolve. In addition, City doesn't see play against decks with discard. It is mainly against Miracles, BBD's UWR, Golddigger UWR, which are played in my meta to a wider extent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer
Line of thought/strategy is: Get to know the opponent's hand > accumulate cards for a kill > discard the counterspell that would counter City (Flusterstorm is useless here for example) > land City of Solitude > win on next turn.
Oops, I misread the thread and thought that the proposal was to take City against BUG. My bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by CabalTherapy
As a cmc3 card it definitely isn't the easiest card to resolve (except that it better dodges CB, of course), and it hurts in AdN. The last time I played them (note that I used three and it might be one too many) I flipped two of them. They left the sb asap, but maybe I was too fast with my judgement.
@shaman,kkkant: opposing discard is effective especially if your plan is the natural tendrils from your hand because all we do is sculpting the perfect hand with 7+1 spells.
This is the time for Ad Nauseam,our carddrawing engine to actually negate hymns and thoughtseizes.
Bring it (or even 2) in against those decks even if it is Team America.
I have no problem with this boarding since TA is one of the slower delver decks.
1) i dont think so, my only concern regarding my opening 7 is not to overflow with combo pieces. Otherwise, the deck has a lot of ways to get started, even without a tutor. (pif + led and a few cantrips ino the yard can often do it)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman
2) top is definetly slower, but i didnt miss preordain at all. I guess thát is some personal consideration.
3) discard (or at least hymns) is not very popular right now because of the ability of many decks to fill its hand again very quickly. This deck, though, is some sort of a meta call, so im still sticking with that plan. Regarding combo matchs, it is true that it is consideraebly slower. I guess i was lucky to only face elves hahaha.
4) yes, a lot of times i found myself siding in nauseam. But many of those times it was just in order to screw my opponent sb plan by not depending on thr gy at all, and sometimes switchng back again. But yes, it is true that i miss AN, altuough i wouldnot go back to play only 1toa or 1 pif
Happy New Year Stormers.
There are a lot of legacy tournaments this year,waiting for Stormdecks to make Top 8.
Challenge accepted !
+1 :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
What are the advantages/disadvantages of playing the "grinding station" list? What matchups does it improve/worsen in comparison to the stock list?
How does the strategy of playing the deck change with the change in decklist?
Crudely summed up: makes Miracles matchup significantly better - other slower control matchups also become better. Worsens most combo matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by laserstone
Agree. I guess dnt is worse for grinding station also. Didnt test it though.Quote:
Originally Posted by nevilshute
I think that very much depends on how you've set up your sideboard. I personally don't bring in AN against D&T because I like to be able to side in multiples of Massacre as well as Decays for their guys + rip etc. As for game 1, if you are running a maindeck Empty the Warrens it will offer a non-trivial amount of "free wins" off of turns 1-2, 10-14 goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by kkkant
Exactly how comparable these free wins are to the free wins gotten off of a main deck AN I don't know, but I've never felt short changed playing the Grinding Station.
Sad that no more Bazar anymore, now that I can go and top 8 again...Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
But there is a Legacy GP that I will atend.
So storm them to dead also in 2015.
No more Bazaar of Moxen? When did that happen? ;___;Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
The Bom said it like in november. Now they are doing most of the european GPs (and getting more money from them) sonthat they said there is no time to make the Bom. They will be doing the legacy GP (wich is not near to the Bom...).Quote:
Originally Posted by .Ix
Sad sad sad