Printable View
The best it can find is Eternal Witness. Or something cute like Fierce Empath to Tasigur/Gurmag Angler.
Might be worth testing as it can help you pull forward quickly in the late game, but I'm not sure if it's good enough. The fact that the creature needs to be green is a bit too restrictive to do actual cool stuff.
If we want to continue to play this deck in this metagame, we may need to take a long look at our sacred cow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
How viable is Deed in large numbers when many people are running things with 6 or 7 cmc (Angler/Tasigur/mandrills/etc)? Deed is, as ever, a good response to all of their little shit -- but at that point you need to also be running spot removal to clean up the big boys. We don't live in a Pernicious Deed-as-catchall world anymore, sadly.
As for Bellower:
It's a 6/5 with no evasion, protection, or anything OTHER than the fact that it brings a <=3-cmc green non-legend stapled to it.
Eternal Witness
KotR
Courser
Trygon Predator
Cold-Eye Selkie
Dauntless Escort
Sylvan Safekeeper
Reclamation Sage
Qasali Pridemage
Scavenging Ooze
I can't think of other useful cards at the moment, although I'm sure the list is much more exhaustive than this.
I will say this, though -- this list actually looks pretty restrictive so far. When I first saw the card I got pretty excited because I missed the word "green," and thought it just tutored any <=3 cmc nonlegend, which was fine -- grab TNN? Stoneforge? Sure! Forcing it to be green in addition to the other constraints is unfortunate.
It's something to keep in mind, and someone we should probably all acquire 1 copy of it to shove in our binders/boxes somewhere in case it ever becomes relevant, but I don't see it changing anything at this time, unless someone can dig up some hot tech that I'm not thinking of. And even then -- is it better than the other various 6-drops that exist? Doubtful.
Yikes, could they nerf this set any more?
It's basically all value plays since there's nothing really interesting to do with it combo-wise.
I guess if you have a food chain you could go this -> fierce empath -> Ulamog.
And in a Pod deck, you can pod into this and get a fresh 3-drop to start another chain with.
Nerf? They did print timetwister variant that will be playable in modern if nothing else and also a new tutor that storm might play.
I actually might look into a bug deck that uses the new liliana. I like saccing strix and snapcaster and getting them back for tons of value. Not sure if the reanimation is any better than the old liliana but may look into it.
I cannot see how this new 6 drop is any better than prime time. it doesnt bring any additional real raw power and 6 drops niches dont matter a whole ton anyway to be honest. I would run prime time over any other 6 drop still.
I think it's competing more with Sun Titan by virtue of its ease of access Witness trigger, but even then I think Sun Titan is still better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
I do not expect us to get anything out of this set, and would be pleasantly surprised if we do. This is Origins. So far they've shown us a bunch of powerful spells. I feel like it idea was to take oldschool "spells > creatures" magic and put a modern day spin on it, in which case we basically get nothing because our spells are already about as powerful as they can realistically be. Nothing short of a Survival unban is going to replace Zenith, for example -- and even then I'm not sure if it's a straight replace or if we'd still run a couple Zeniths as backups.
If looking at this as a sun titan replacement than I agree its just worse. It adds gsz'able and puts a witness and 6/5 into play and I dont think that is worth the loss of recursive power that Sun Titan has.
This guy is "up there" on my list of pet cards from Origins. I think this guy CAN work within Nic Fit, but Pod and/or a different shell makes the most sense. Within the GSZ shell, he more or less replaces slots of shit he will dig up. In pod he has the ability to show up to the party after Acidic Slime or Thragtusk. His tutoring either resets pod (find a 1 drop ---> pod into a 2cc, find a 2 drop ---> pod into a 3 cc, etc.) or he pods himself into a 7 drop. I don't know if a 7 drop is desired for Pod, but this gets you into Angel of Despair, Angel of Serenity, Avenger of Zendikar, Elesh Norn, Hornet Queen, Platinum Angel, Protean Hulk, and Rune-Scarred Demon territory. Or....Vizzerdrix. I like the empath --> Ulamog/boom booms concept also.Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
It's interesting how despite being a nice "glue" to Nic Fit (on-color, zenith target, laughs at Deed, plays with Pod, finds stuff in a deck that likes tutors, etc), he may not be "enough". I think it's possible but can't figure out how to build the list. Just thinking out loud and confirming some other thoughts.
Yes, we do need answers for the big boys and that is where the strength of Junk lies. But still there are DnT, Delver, Elves, Pyromancer, Mentor, Entreat, EtW, Dredge and various other decks where Deed makes the difference. But we need to think broader. We should be all about manoeuvrability and a sweeper is a big part of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Most of those die to EE for 2-3 mana, and StP/Roast kill the rest.
1 card that takes all vs 1 card that needs more cards to clear the board. Deeds is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
Unless you are using Academy Ruins with EE deed is better. It hits more things in 1 go which is the big draw to deed. I play BUG and I still think deed is better than EE (I could use AR with it).
The threats that Decay/Deed do not hit are overblown. They certainly are there but they are not the majority. White has plow/path and Blue has counters/jace and all have pulse.
This is what I'm saying. Previous eras of NicFit-dom have completely eschewed spot removal in order to increase bomb density, and leaned entirely upon Deed because at the time, we could. All I'm getting at is that in this world we currently live in, we can no longer afford that luxury. Every color, every version needs a couple of hard removal spells now. It's not a -huge- deal, but we do need to be conscious of the space constraints that puts on us, as well as the fact that our games (which are typically super grindy already) are likely going to become even worse in that way -- which, in turn, pushes us towards the hardest of win conditions. 12post is still seeing some limited success in this metagame primarily because it caps at Emrakul into infinite turns, which is basically the biggest / most unstoppable / most inevitable you can go. We need a similarly inevitable / impossible to remove wincon if we are to succeed because we just don't have the slots anymore to whittle people down by throwing midrange bombs at them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
I actually like this card, I just think the restrictions are silly. Like, is it really broken if I use this to get Glissa, the Traitor?Quote:
Originally Posted by Warden
I even like it better than prime time unless we're playing Scapeshift (because primetime means you have to play wonky lands that can monkey with your openers). I just wish we could get something cooler. There aren't that many broken creatures at <=3 cmc in standard in any color, so giving us the ability to chain this into SFM or Image -> something else would've been a nice boost for formats where resolving a 6 cmc sorcery speed spell is a victory in itself.
I guess a green creature at any CMC could be problematic in standard though.
A 6/5 into a free Hornet Queen is insanely broken. In Legacy, well. Progenitus. Or Progenitor Mimic into Progenitor Mimic into Progenitor Mimic into Progenitor Mimic into Ruric Thar.Quote:
Originally Posted by maharis
If the color restriction was lifted instead, you could chain Phantasmal Images into Teeg or a Meddling Mage on whatever can kill that much fat.
The card is not good. It is casual/standard chaff. The Titans are much better and are already super expensive.
Painter's servant. That is all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Play a card that's bad in the deck to capitalize on another card that's not even that powerful. Seems strong.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbone2016
Currently BUG Nic Fit playing vs Painter in the Scandinavian Open tournament series, round 6 of 6, first game lost while I'm trying to post this on my ancient laptop...
http://www.twitch.tv/svmtv
Edit: apparently the second game was a quick loss too, too much lag for me to see much of it except for t1 Deathrite, Painter plays SDT, t2 Thoughtseize revealed a Grindstone, REB/Pyroblast and 4 lands so it was looking pretty good for the Nic Fit player who also had a Liliana in hand.
Why did NicFit pass on collective company? Seems super chain-able with eternal witness and could eventually dig up a win/con or just grind the opponent to dust.
Just look at a random list and count the number of actual creatures with CMC <= 3. The number is far too low to support Collected Company.