[Deck] Turbo Depths

Expedition Map is significantly better vs Delver because it is a bit cheaper to cast, can be cast turn 1 before you have to worry about soft permission (and if they FORCE it you are super excited), doesn't expose Depths to Wasteland + Surgical immediately, and can fetch situational lands EOT. I've had it Revoker'd or Needle'd before and it worked out quite well because my opponent would rather shut down Map than Stage/Hexmage(???). Decay sucks sometimes, but you usually are trying to get Needle down through Decays in Decay matchups, so that's fine.

If you are boarding Into the North out after G1 in the Delver matchup then I guess that's ok? Definitely play snow basics PLEASE. I saw someone at my local shop who had Into the North with only Depths as targets.

Won legacy fnm with the deck.

How would you build a meta to crush a leovold, eldrazi, & storm heavy meta?

went 4-1 yesterday beat death and taxes 2-0 elf 2-0 pox 2-0 lost to food chain 1-2 (we played for fun and I won then 4-5 games without losing any) then omni show 2-0

@DNSolver

After our epic match, I made it to the finals before losing to elves :)

Nice! Congrats.

For everyone else's benefit, I played Turbo Depths and Solnox played Maverick.

I won a 14 person GPT today to get my byes for Vegas :-) I was pleased with how the deck performed in the fluctuating meta; I didn't have amazing hands but generally played pretty conservative and cautious which worked out in my favor. I'll attach my list below:

Lands (23):
4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian's Stage
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3x Verdant Catacombs
1x Wooded Foothills
2x Bayou
1x Llanowar Wastes
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Snow-Covered Swamp

Creatures (8):
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Vampire Hexmage

Spells (29):
4x Lotus Petal
4x Crop Rotation
4x Sylvan Scrying
3x Into the North
2x Sylvan Library
2x Not of this World
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Duress
1x Collective Brutality
4x Thoughtseize
3x Pithing Needle

SB:
4x Rite of Consumption
4x Chalice of the Void
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Krosan Grip
1x Karakas
1x Faerie Macabre
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Beckon Apparition

Round 1 versus Eldrazi (2-0)
Both games I had a pretty quick token that he couldn't disrupt

Round 2 versus Lands (2-0)
He was new to the deck and new to legacy. Game 1 I had a good hand for picking apart lands and ended up copying his Depths with my Stage and swinging through Maze of Ith with NotW. Game 2 I got him with Rite of Consumption after going down to 5 life drawing extra cards off Sylvan Library, assuming he boarded out P-Fire. He didn't but luckily he couldn't find one in time.

Round 3 versus Turbo Depths (ID)
We both knew what we were on and agreed to split as we were both 2-0 in a 4 round tourney, and the mirror seemed obviously coin-flippy. However, we decided to play it out because I had never actually played the mirror and I figure it will be more common so it was good experience. Game 1 I think he had Karakas maindeck... I ended up copying it then GQing his Karakas and making a token on his endstep for the win. Game 2 I sided in 4x Chalice, 4x Rite, 2x Abrupt Decay 1x Karakas. I ended up Chalicing him out of the game. My assumption is that Chalice is unlikely out of TD, and in the mirror it might be good to board in my Chalices because my deck is built to play around them better, and maybe be on a Rite plan. But I really have no idea. Feedback on the mirror would be appreciated :-)

Round 4 versus Grixis Delver (ID)
We ID.

Top 8 (I am top seed) versus Maverick (2-1)
Game one he tries to play around me having NotW for his potential Karakas off a Knight activation (I don't) and ends up blowing up Pithing Needle and trying to Wasteland me when I activate Stage forgetting I also had a Hexmage out to respond with. Game two I have a strong hand but he Tsieze's my Into the North and I can't find a tutor or Depths all game. He has nothing going but I end up dying to 3 Mother of runes and a Renegade Rallier. Shameful. Game 3 I forget exactly what happens but I win.

Top 4 versus Grixis Delver (2-0)
Game one I am able to make a token through two wastelands because he can't find a clock. Game two he surgicals my Depths after I make a token but doesn't actually run Submerge or Diabolic Edict so I am able to get him.

Finals versus 12 Post (2-0)
I was a bit worried because this guy had just 2-0ed the other Turbo Depths player. Game 1 is a little grindy but I end up getting it. Game 2 is very grindy. At one point I Thoughtsieze him and see Show and Tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Repeal, Crop Rotation, Crop Rotation, Expedition Map. Gross. I take a Crop rotation because I have a Sylvan scrying to go get Karakas for his Emrakul and NotW for his Repeal. Later he activates Eye of Ugin and fetches new Emrakul, threatening to be able to cast it the next turn. On my turn I make a Marit Lage token, in the process Crop Rotating away my Karakas so if he takes my next turn he can't kill my token. He ends up not hitting a land and I win. Somewhere in Game 2 (it was a long one) I have made a token and swing once, putting him to 3, he gets a Glacial Chasm. On my turn I have Scrying for Ghost Quarter... but draw a Rite of Consumption and in my excitement about this new tech, cast it into his Glacial Chasm. I lost my token, do 0 damage, and gain 0 life. Somehow I still win that game....

Overall, it was a fun, well-run though small tournament. I got my byes! And some cash, some of which bought me my last Verdant Catacombs. I think the things I learned: just because Turbo is in the name, we don't have to go fast. Sometimes just tight, conservative play wins games even if we let them go a little long. Maverick can be kinda a tough matchup. I need to learn the mirror. 12 post actually has a lot of ways to disrupt us. And, last but not least, Rite of Consumption does not get around Glacial Chasm :-)

Went 4-3 in the MTGO Legacy Monthly playing BUG Depths. Overall did really well going into last round I was 4-2 and lost to Griselpuff on Grixis Delver.

Played Negator77 's BUG Depths list but dropped a Surgical and played an extra Abrupt.


I was wondering what others though of playing a few Fatal push in the side?

Went 3/3 in a 61 deck tourney in Hartford, CT.
The last time I played Legacy it was called Type 1.5.
Love the deck, felt solid, I just need to play a bunch more.

1. Too eager against Shardless BUG. Force is a card.
2. Bojuka Bog and then Faerie Macabre and Karakas wrecked RB reanimator.
3. Multi-misplayed my way to death against Loam Pox. Also Hymn is a card.
4. T2 Lage twice against Elves. Game 2 NoTW against his Crop to Karakas.
5. Eaten by cloudpost eldrazi.
6. Fast enough against cloudpost eldrazi. Needle Karakas.

Didn't seem to be D&T anywhere in the room. Never faced StP or Submerge.

How do we side against eldrazi? T2 Thoughnot and a couple of Reality Smashers is tough to face, even with a Lage.
I took out Bog and Steppe for Boseiju and Karakas. Both are dead effects while Boseiju beats Warping Wail, and Karakas doesn't CIPT.
I sided out Map and NoTW for Natural State and Abrupt Decay#2 against Needle on Stage, figuring Map is slow and NoTW is dead.
Unfortunately, NoTW is not dead in that matchup, with Karakas and Endbringer. Endbringer's a bastard, shoots Vampires and blanks Avatars.

My only maindeck oddity is Dryad Arbor over Blooming Marsh. Marsh might CIPT anyway, and Arbor can block/ sac to edict.

4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Vampire Hexmage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Dryad Arbor (surprise blocker a couple times)
4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Crop Rotation
4 Sylvan Scrying
1 Into the North (sided out pretty often)
1 Expedition Map (sided out every match but Pox)
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Pithing Needle
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Rite of Consumption
1 Not of This World (sided out pretty often)
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 Natural State
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Dread of Night
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Massacre

https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/2/AAA...36&size_mode=3

4 Thespian's Stage
4 Dark Depths
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Blooming Marsh
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe


3 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Crop Rotation
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Sylvan Scrying
1 Sylvan Library
4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Sideboard:
1 Karakas
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Drop of Honey
3 Sphere of Resistance
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Sylvan Library
2 Not of this World

I decided this 75 for the event I played in. Like I said before, I don't like NotW as a completely dead draw against combo; I liked jdmdave's choice of 2 Inquisition, but I felt like Mishra's Factory wasn't going to be a good choice in my meta because I doubted there would be any Liliana of the Veil and I imagine that Factory wouldn't be blocking since the main attackers would be Delver and TNN. I went with Sylvan Library as a card that sort of has text against combo decks but is still a good anti-Swords to Plowshares card. 3 Sphere of Resistance because I'm one of two Storm players usually, 2 Surgicals because Reanimator isn't popular here, 4 Abrupt Decay for white decks and I was anticipating Blood Moons being popular, Drop of Honey because I want to know if it's good.

I didn't drop a single game before getting to Top 8. I went 2-0 against Sneak Show, UR Delver, and 4C Delver, then drew into the single eliminations rounds. I lost 1-2 against my round 1 Sneak Show opponent. Game 1 I mulliganed to six, had to keep a hand with no discard, and got caught with Show and Tell on Turn 2; Game 2 I had a messed up hand that was able to cast Thoughtseize then make Marit Lage on Turn 2; Game 3 I made a mistake that cost me the match. My opponent casts Show and Tell, and I Crop Rotate into Karakas. My opponent puts Griselbrand into play, and I bounce it, forcing him to draw 14 cards. He discards down to 7, and I take my turn. I draw Expedition Map and cast it; my opponent casts Force of Will to go down to 2. At this point what I should have done was cast the Elvish Spirit Guide in my hand, but I am not used to actual non-20/20 combat and I was certain I was dead since my opponent drew so many cards. My opponent lead his next turn off with a Ponder so I immediately realized my mistake--he didn't find what he needed that turn, but since I hadn't played my creature he actually gained an extra turn to Brainstorm into Sneak Attack and Emrakul.

Drop of Honey didn't do anything; I brought it in against the 4C player but the game was decided before I could cast it.

1. Is factory a maindeck card or not? I have a slot for it in the board, but it has been situationally useful
2. What are people's thoughts on running git probe without therapy? Has anyone tried this ala how infect in modern used to use probe to see if the cost was clear?

Well, what are you using Mishra's Factory for? Unless I'm missing something, the uses for Mishra's Factory are to beat Edict effects, to block low power ground creatures, and to attack. I guess it depends on if these things are good enough in your metagame to warrant it. Like I said in my report, I didn't play Factory because there are no Lilianas in my area right now, and I expected the only attackers would be Delver and TNN (unblockable).

Got 4th place ina small event, losing to reanimator round 1, beating eldrazi round 2, beating enchantress round three and losing to charbelcher round 4. 14 goblins on turn one sucks. I have never beaten reanimator in even one game before even with graveyard hate sideboarded in.

Hi all. I've been playing LGS legacy events with Depths since Feb. My local metagame is pretty warped. It's about half RG Lands and half DNT, with a few delver and blade decks sprinkled in. Not much else. Lands I can kinda deal with, but DNT? I've never won a single game with any sideboard iteration, ever. I got close back when I ran Winter orbs with Tabernacle, but it wasn't enough. They'd just vial out wisps. I've tried deluge, mb trackers, dread of night, massacre, golgari charm, steely, NoTW, GQ, ballista...I even tried sulfur elemental once. Deluge is too slow vs port, dread misses a lot of their guys. It's also tough to side in enough hate without tanking the deck's consistency. If I am lucky I scrape by 2-2 courtesy of lands, burn or delver.

I am not the best magic player, but I am decent with the deck. I've read the primer, and I follow this thread closely. Am I missing something? Those of you that 2-0 or 2-1 DNT, how do you do it?

Current list:

Lands (23):
4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian's Stage
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Bayou
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Snow-Covered Swamp

Creatures (10):
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Vampire Hexmage
2x Deathrite Shaman

Spells (27):
4x Lotus Petal
4x Crop Rotation
4x Sylvan Scrying
3x Into the North
2x Not of this World
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Duress
4x Thoughtseize
3x Pithing Needle

SB:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Karakas
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Extirpate
1x Pithing Needle
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Golgari Charm
2x Steely Resolve

So far the 2 DRS have been great. They offer a little hedge against opposing extraction, eat swords, make mana through Moon, and are 'slow' fast mana no 9-10. Ancient Stirrings is tempting. I've also experimented with steely+wish+death's shadow, stronghold + ballista/fulminator, crucible, and factories, all to less success.

Is Steely Resolve just a worse Not of this World?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nealdrox

Is Steely Resolve just a worse Not of this World?

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I just ordered a steely resolve. My first encounter with D&T was as annoying as imagined. Like half the deck stops the combo or gets rid of token, so my theory is one not of this world may not be enough. The steely resolve takes care of all threats in hand and in play at same time and don't need to use extra cards or needles for karakas. Maybe this will side in place of a fast mana or duress. I don't know if opponent would actually bother countering this thing or destroying it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fblthp

Hi all. I've been playing LGS legacy events with Depths since Feb. My local metagame is pretty warped. It's about half RG Lands and half DNT, with a few delver and blade decks sprinkled in. Not much else. Lands I can kinda deal with, but DNT? I've never won a single game with any sideboard iteration, ever. I got close back when I ran Winter orbs with Tabernacle, but it wasn't enough. They'd just vial out wisps. I've tried deluge, mb trackers, dread of night, massacre, golgari charm, steely, NoTW, GQ, ballista...I even tried sulfur elemental once. Deluge is too slow vs port, dread misses a lot of their guys. It's also tough to side in enough hate without tanking the deck's consistency. If I am lucky I scrape by 2-2 courtesy of lands, burn or delver.

I am not the best magic player, but I am decent with the deck. I've read the primer, and I follow this thread closely. Am I missing something? Those of you that 2-0 or 2-1 DNT, how do you do it?

Current list:

Lands (23):
4x Dark Depths
4x Thespian's Stage
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
2x Bayou
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Sejiri Steppe
1x Snow-Covered Forest
1x Snow-Covered Swamp

Creatures (10):
4x Elvish Spirit Guide
4x Vampire Hexmage
2x Deathrite Shaman

Spells (27):
4x Lotus Petal
4x Crop Rotation
4x Sylvan Scrying
3x Into the North
2x Not of this World
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Duress
4x Thoughtseize
3x Pithing Needle

SB:
3x Abrupt Decay
1x Karakas
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Extirpate
1x Pithing Needle
2x Toxic Deluge
1x Golgari Charm
2x Steely Resolve

So far the 2 DRS have been great. They offer a little hedge against opposing extraction, eat swords, make mana through Moon, and are 'slow' fast mana no 9-10. Ancient Stirrings is tempting. I've also experimented with steely+wish+death's shadow, stronghold + ballista/fulminator, crucible, and factories, all to less success.

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Yeah, honestly I have a similar impression of the DnT matchup. It sucks. One thing that helps is just playing really tight against them. DNSolver gave me some helpful feedback a while ago that I'll try to find and re-post for ya. I am currently on a 4x Rite of Consumption in the SB plan, which has been the most successful for me so far, but still I'm at like 25% against DnT. I have tried Steely Resolve, and it is definitely good. It has application beyond Not of this World's. In a protracted DnT matchup, NotW can feel like a band-aid on a bullet wound. Some people seem to have a lot of success against DnT, based on discussions here--but not me. My main DnT opponent is also a very highly skilled player, so that may have something to do with it. But even in some events I have lost to only average DnT players. Whereas I always felt very confident in the Miracles matchup and others here found it to be a nightmare. But yeah, try out Rite of Consumption if you haven't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DNSolver

How are you beating Miracles consistently? What patterns to the games result in you winning? How are you sideboarding?

Edit: I guess I'll actually answer the post :)

Tips and Tricks for Death and Taxes:

1) Wait to play Pithing Needle. Since D+T lacks card selection, they are stuck with what they draw in most cases. Wait to play Needle until you see something you want to Needle, either from them playing it or from a discard spell. In order of priority, these are usually Wasteland > Vial > Karakas > Port / Mom if there's no clear choice.

2) Fast mana can usually come out post-board because games will likely take a while to win unless you catch them with a bad hand that folds to one Needle.

3) Against only Karakas up as they pass to your turn with Thalia, Guardian of Thraben out, Ghost Quarter on Karakas at the end of their second main phase if they have already played a land that turn. This prevents them from floating mana in their endstep to use with their Plains they fetch to Plow your token. This does let them play a 2nd Karakas from hand if they have it, so use this trick only when they have played a land that turn.

4) Allow / entice your opponent to Wasteland your duals / Urborgs instead of your Stages / Depths.

5) Stage can copy your opponent's Wasteland, Port, or Karakas. You can occaisionally use the Wasteland or Port ability to get around Karakas.

6) Bring in Karakas to stop Mangara of Corondor from turning off your entire deck.

7) Flickerwisp is their best card against us if they can get to the necessary mana / vial number. It kills Marit Lage with its ability, blocks, attacks for 3 to clock us, and can exile Pithing Needles for a turn to unlock their cards.

8) Hexmage is a good blocker / attacker in the matchup. You can frequently get in some points of damage that negates 2-4 points of lifegain from Jitte / Batterskull. Hexmage also sacrifices to remove counters from vial. This will prevent your opponent from putting the card they want in from Vial if you remove the counters in response. If your opponent says that Vial remembers how many counters were on it, that only applies if the Vial is killed.

9) Sejiri Steppe can counter Swords, Flickerwisp or Mangara's abilities, etc. However, one of its better modes is to get through blockers.

10) Try to copy Ghost Quarter with a Stage if you get a chance, to make sure you have access to a second Ghost Quarter effect if your first combo attempt does not work.

Some of these plays are pretty obvious, but that should be enough to win at least half your games unless your opponent really knows your deck as well as you do.

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For the benefit of others, see above :-)

DnT matchup is tough, but not unwinnable. Just requires lots of careful play + pithing needles.

What are everyones thoughts on the deck's 59-60th cards now that NOTW isn't well positioned? I've always preferred a sylvan + 3rd into, but I see other people like to go heavier on IoK/deluge/other crop rotation bullets. I'm starting to think that we want more disruption past just 8x tseize/duress + pithing needle maindeck due to the mass amounts of combo/delver.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by caseyc

For the benefit of others, see above :-)

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Thanks! I'll definitely give the karakas trick and Thespian's Stage games a try, but I have the sneaking suspicion it will wind up like my Winter Orb plan where I get really close but ultimately can't out-control the 'control' deck. Anyone tried Damping Matrix or Torpor Orb recently? I've been considering them. Each switches off a lot of DNT permanents. EDIT: I will also clear room for Rite of Consumption.

As far as the 59-60 NoTW replacement slots, I've been trying deathrite x2. Additional 1x duress and 1x needle wasn't bad. Dark Ritual x2 was a little too clunky. I might actually try Gurmag or Hooting Mandrills. The deck fills its graveyard quickly and could use some cheap backup threats, plus edict and extraction 'protection.'

Rite of Consumption is where its at. Mishra's Factory I played MB due to Miracles. It was a very viable alt win con vs it.