[DTB] Vial Goblins

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

Err... I'm not playin mogg fanatic's right now also. From what I see, only 1 Ichorid in my meta. Not missing them so far.

Well, this is another reason to run Challice. 1 less card to lose from it at 1.

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I think mogg fanatics are necessary, one of the better goblins that they printed. I would not play less than 4 in my deck. Mogg Fanatic has so many uses in almost all your matchups, and it at least does 1 point of damage, usually more.

This is my strategy against Threshold when it comes to Chalice. If I'm on the play in games 2 & 3, I would board chalice in, but if I'm on the draw then chalice stays in the sideboard. The main reason for this is because when they are going first, they are already ahead in tempo and you usually have to play around daze.

Mostly, Chalice comes in against storm combo along with cabal therapy in the board which is better than thoughtseize since its a 2 for 1.

The relic is interesting, but I would still play tormod's crypt because its stronger against Ichorid. The most important thing to do is to stop them within in the first few turns so you make them play the long game.

I think that, in my meta, I'll most miss Fanatics in the mirror match, since they're great against 1st turn Lackey, and Sharpshooters, but I don't think they'll be getting back so soon.

Liked the idea. If you lose G 1 or 2, can board in Challice G 2 or 3.

I think that Fanatics are probably worth keeping in the main deck, although I do find myself boarding them out a lot. They aren't that good against some of the most popular decks in the format, such as Thresh and Landstill. Still, they are excellent in the mirror and against Ichorid. They are also nice for taking out dark confidant, which Aggro Loam, Fish, and others tend to play.

I've been playing Choke in my sideboard because it really hoses blue decks such as Thresh, Landstill, and others. However, I never see anybody trying it in top eight lists. I guess people think it's too expensive, but it's nasty if it resolves.

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Originally Posted by Justin

I think that Fanatics are probably worth keeping in the main deck, although I do find myself boarding them out a lot. They aren't that good against some of the most popular decks in the format, such as Thresh and Landstill. Still, they are excellent in the mirror and against Ichorid. They are also nice for taking out dark confidant, which Aggro Loam, Fish, and others tend to play.

I've been playing Choke in my sideboard because it really hoses blue decks such as Thresh, Landstill, and others. However, I never see anybody trying it in top eight lists. I guess people think it's too expensive, but it's nasty if it resolves.

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Or you can run Boil... It's an instant and works when they tap out for that FoF. Lulz. Also, Instants rawk. Price of Progress is awesome too.

If you play green, Root Maze (thanks for the correction) is probably a better choice over Boil. If you drop it T1 aginast a combo, that has 1 or 2 fetches in their hands, they'll lose about 2-4 turns just to it. It's great. If you want to run Boil, it's completly different, and I think, unecessary qhen you look at your Wastelands and Ports.

About the Fanatics, I still need to test more without them, but the deck is running preety smoothly Fanaticless.

With the rise of combo what have people been running in there sideboards?
I've been playing this lately:
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Krosan Grip
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Cabal Therapy/Thoughtseize (I'm not sure which one I like better yet)

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

If you play green, Choke is probably a better choice over Boil. If you drop it T1 aginast a combo, that has 1 or 2 fetches in their hands, they'll lose about 2-4 turns just to it. It's great. If you want to run Boil, it's completly different, and I think, unecessary qhen you look at your Wastelands and Ports.

About the Fanatics, I still need to test more without them, but the deck is running preety smoothly Fanaticless.

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I think you are talking about root maze. Choke costs 3 mana and don't care abaout the fetches...

I like my sideboard versatile.

Rb Goblins SB:

SB: 1 [ON] Goblin Sledder
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 [LRW] Mad Auntie
SB: 1 [10E] Goblin King
SB: 3 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst

Thorn comes in against control as well as combo, and I started running 3x Earwigs and 1x piledriver in place of the set of drivers. Leyline is all the hate you'll need against loam decks coupled with a fast clock and tutorable edicts. Leylines + MB fanatics + sledder makes ichorid winnable, and sledder also turns off jittes and wins long standoffs while making propaganda more managable. I used to run a tutorable Goblin Settler in the board back when tabernacle (and Glacial Chasm!) saw some play, and he would also come in against the occasional stronghold. IMO 7 pieces of grave hate is overkill, as we have guys that will give their lives to trade with an ichorid and a 'moeba while RFGing bridges. I don't run Green for K grip, so I run two mad aunties main alongside a tinkerer, (auntie can regen tinkerer vs arts bigger than dreadnaughts or needles, and tinkerer doesnt suck through vial or with 'chief in play) and keep the other two aunties and a king to bring in against decks packing E Plague (though it's less prominant) and vs thresh in place of 'squads.

Pyrostatic Pillar should really only be run in mono-red goblins, and IMO thorn is still the better card, as it takes them 3 mana to wish for an answer and 2 mana to kill it while with pillar, if you hurt yourself with it too much, they can feesably go for a low storm tendrils to finish you. (plus thorn helps vs control and burn, whereas pillar is more narrow)

This is the list I've been running with alot of success

// Lands
3 [6E] Mountain (2)
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
4 [REW] Wasteland
4 [A] Badlands
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [U] Taiga

// Creatures
3 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
1 [LRW] Wort, Boggart Auntie
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
4 [10E] Mogg Fanatic
4 [SC] Goblin Warchief
4 [FNM] Goblin Ringleader
4 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
4 [P2] Goblin Matron
1 [GP] Tin Street Hooligan

// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
4 [MOR] Warren Weirding

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [SC] Pyrostatic Pillar
SB: 4 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt

I think Piledriver still warrants to be included as a 3x. I like the SB seeing as storm combo is huge right now. The Ports being in here haven't been an issue yet pertaining to getting colored screwed.

Didn't Chalice+Pillar stop being enough to deal with combo decks something like two years ago?

The deal is not just Pillar and/or Challice, but them with a 4-5 turn clock that makes them good.


Zinch, thanks for correcting me. Root Maze is thecard I was talking about. Choke I don't like.

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Originally Posted by Illissius

Didn't Chalice+Pillar stop being enough to deal with combo decks something like two years ago?

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Didn't combo decks start caring about life something like two weeks ago?

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Originally Posted by Forbiddian

Didn't combo decks start caring about life something like two weeks ago?

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They still use the Ill-Gotten Gains-kill against non-blue decks.

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Originally Posted by Illissius

Didn't Chalice+Pillar stop being enough to deal with combo decks something like two years ago?

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Agreed with Illissius. And that's being way generous, IMO. Pyrostatic Pillar never had business being run in any sideboard of any Legacy deck ever. Still doesn't. Pyrostatic Pillar is to Legacy sideboards what Raging Goblin is to Standard. There is always a better choice.

Vial Goblins is a glass cannon. It's always been a glass cannon. It always will be a glass cannon. It loses to Storm Combo. You can add 11 slots to make it not lose to Storm Combo, and then you'll wonder why you start losing a lot more matches you'd otherwise be pretty favored against.

The most successful way I've found to deal with the Storm Combo threat is to run seven to eight discard in the sideboard. I'm not recommending you do this. I'm just saying. Take a sideboard like

4 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Pithing Needle/Krosan Grip
4 Relic of Progenitus

And you'll be left with answers to everything. Not good answers per se, but answers. Enough discard to still be unfavored against combo to the same degree you will be with Chalice and Pillar, and with random answers to Plague and shit.

EDIT: Oh, yeah, anyone running Crypt/Leyline? -X of those, +X Relic of Progenitus. You really don't have a valid argument not to.

EDIT II: @Rood: How's the complete lack of Gempalm Incinerators working out for you? Do you miss them? Or do you just accept the suckage in the Goblin Mirror and find it sails more smoothly everywhere else?

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

EDIT II: @Rood: How's the complete lack of Gempalm Incinerators working out for you? Do you miss them? Or do you just accept the suckage in the Goblin Mirror and find it sails more smoothly everywhere else?

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I've been rediculousy happy not running any Gempalm Incinerators maindeck. I've never been too much of a fan of the inclusion ever since everybody started going Goyf happy in every deck imaginable. The fact I run 4x Siege makes Weirding rediculously good because it enables Lackey connection way moreso then Gempalm ever will. Believe it or not I'm actually 2-0 in Goblin mirror matches mainly because I just out-siege bang them =]. He's so rediculously good in the mirror and alot of lists don't run 4x, although I'm not sure why.

"He's so rediculously good in the mirror and alot of lists don't run 4x, although I'm not sure why."

Because a hand with 2-3, without Lackey, is not that cood. I'm currently at 3, thnking that's enough.
Your creature removal set consist in 4 Warren's W.? no SB slots?
I'm scared to do that, since there ara much more Goblins here than ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh and cia. Do you think is viable trying that in a meta like this?

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Originally Posted by Roodmistah

I've been rediculousy happy not running any Gempalm Incinerators maindeck. I've never been too much of a fan of the inclusion ever since everybody started going Goyf happy in every deck imaginable. The fact I run 4x Siege makes Weirding rediculously good because it enables Lackey connection way moreso then Gempalm ever will. Believe it or not I'm actually 2-0 in Goblin mirror matches mainly because I just out-siege bang them =]. He's so rediculously good in the mirror and alot of lists don't run 4x, although I'm not sure why.

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A lot of people don't run Seige-Gang as a 4 of because they cost 5 mana. I'm very happy with my list which includes 2 Gempalms. I couldn't play goblins without having 1 Gemplam in the deck. They are still very good removal and they draw you a card.

The basic differences between the deck that you run and my goblins deck is the following:

Land

+1 Mountain
+2 Wooded Foothills
+1 Taiga
-4 Rishadan Port


+2 Gempalm Incinerator
+1 Goblin Sharpshooter
-1 Warren Wierding
-2 Siege-Gang Commander

SB

+3 Cabal Therapy
+2 Engineered Explosives
-1 Tormod's Crypt
-4 Pyrostatic Pillar

I still like my version a lot and see no reason to change the list as of yet.

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Originally Posted by nickrit2000

A lot of people don't run Seige-Gang as a 4 of because they cost 5 mana. I'm very happy with my list which includes 2 Gempalms. I couldn't play goblins without having 1 Gemplam in the deck. They are still very good removal and they draw you a card.

The basic differences between the deck that you run and my goblins deck is the following:

Land

+1 Mountain
+2 Wooded Foothills
+1 Taiga
-4 Rishadan Port


+2 Gempalm Incinerator
+1 Goblin Sharpshooter
-1 Warren Wierding
-2 Siege-Gang Commander

SB

+3 Cabal Therapy
+2 Engineered Explosives
-1 Tormod's Crypt
-4 Pyrostatic Pillar

I still like my version a lot and see no reason to change the list as of yet.

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The 4x Siege-bang have proved to be insane in testing...I've yet really to experience any trouble at all running 4. I can see why you'd want to drop the 4 Ports to stable the manabase, however Port really is still an insane card that has helped me win alot of matches just recently. I honestly have not had any trouble obtaining my R mana with maindecking 4 Ports, it's not really an issue at all. I think I will maindeck 1x Gempalm incinerator just to tutor for because he's fairly insane in alot of situations.

The Pillars do seem kinda janky but I've never really been a fan of Cabal Therapy in Goblins...most likely I'll run Jester's cap on legs :D.

I don't know, seems like Pillar will demolish storm combo pretty hard. The only thing they can do is go for IGG and then still that's going to cost them a large amount of life and time setting up and actually performing. If you can get a decent clock going and perhaps have some disruption in the form of Waste/Port that should do the trick I guess.

The full set of Siege Gangs seems kind of interesting, but don't they just clog up your hand most of the time? Piledriver fits the curve a whole lot better, even though Siege Gang is more powerful I would want the full set of Pileys just for the mana and Vialcurve.

Also, I placed Wort in the sideboard. It was never useful, nowhere near as useful as the Mad Auntie I'm currently running main is. Against which decks is Wort actually that good? It seems decent against Stax decks and against Threshold maybe as you can set up a Weirding/Wort lock. Otherwise it always got killed or I just didn't have the mana to use it.

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Originally Posted by Mantis

I don't know, seems like Pillar will demolish storm combo pretty hard. The only thing they can do is go for IGG and then still that's going to cost them a large amount of life and time setting up and actually performing. If you can get a decent clock going and perhaps have some disruption in the form of Waste/Port that should do the trick I guess.

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Maybe they got alternatives, such as going off before Pillar is on the board or ending with 1-3 life while killing you, discarding it with a first turn Duress/Thoughtseize, countering it or simply bouncing it EOT. IGG doesn't take much to setup, unless there's graveyard disruption in the way. Depending on the combo deck, it may force a response from them, but nothing that they can't already do. Combo is forced to deal with Counterbalance. Pillar is so much weaker than and as fast as that.