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Since there are multiple builds of Landstill, I would say that this blanket statement does not always hold true, and in some cases is completely false.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldariel
Smart sideboarding and deck construction on a Landstill players side and they have the ability to bring in all of the problem cards that Solidarity can have issues with facing as well as a lot of builds running Stifle between MD and SB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldariel
You are aware of the fact that Stifle basically does nothing except - maybe - countering a Fetchland?
You are also aware of the fact that a Landstill build like that would lose very much of its power against a random field?
It might perhaps be possible for a Landstill-build to get a slightly favorable macthup postboard, but you simply can't have a good matchup against solidarity preboard because you have to run lots of cards that kill creatures. Adan's U-R Landstill is the worst kind of landstill solidarity can meet and even there I'd say that the matchup is favorable (maybe only slightly (probably even or slightly worse than even against the version with maindecked Counterbalances))
If you can show us a build that is not U-R Landstill that has a favorable matchup against solidarity while still being a viable deck for the metagame in whole, I'm really interested.
However I don't think we should be discussing different builds of landstill here, so sorry about that.
@Topic: Again, would it be good to board Spell Snares against Affinity?
They counter all cards that let them win on the spot (Ravager, Atog, Plating, Fling) but they weaken the combo.
Also I still like my 2 Wipe Away, could my sideboard look like this:
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Brain Freeze
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
1 Echoing Truth
2 Wipe Away
1 Rebuild
1 Twincast
3 Hydroblast
3 Spell Snare
Also is there anything that can improve our belcher matchup? And with the above board, how would I board? I' d probably want to board in the Blasts to counter acceleratin/Wish, but nothing else, correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Phanel
You would board in Spell Snares as well obv. They counter Burning Wish and Desperate Ritual, mainly Burning Wish. Also, there are many cards you can randomly board out because against Belcher, once they go all in and you stop them, you have some turns to sit around and set up you're own combo.
I generally go something like this for board.
-1x Turnabout
-1x Twincast
-1x Brainfreeze
-2x Peek
+3x Spell SNare
+2x Hydroblast
Alright, let's put it this way: "Non-Duress non-Chalice using Landstill-builds fall under the category of easy control-decks for Solidarity to beat." It's true that I was generalizing a bit too much, but from what I've seen, those builds are still the vast majority of Landstill-builds being played. I don't think Stifle helps Landstill all that much in the end; while it does improve the game against the 'partial Freeze'-plan, it doesn't give Landstill the critical amount of counters to actually prevent Solidarity from going off before manlands finish things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jander78
Landstill in virtually every iteration of itself will provide an inherent advantage to Solidarity. There will be games where landstill has a million hard counters, but those games are few and far between.
I still would not advocate solidarity in the current metagame. The format is filled with fast combo decks, and will slowly shift to accommodate it with an influx of aggro-control decks. If you still feel the need to play this deck however, play mono blue. It hasn't failed me yet.
This is completely incorrect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Phanel
When playing as Landstill against Solidarity, which I will dare to argue I've played more than most people alive (I've played the full matchup, including sideboard, as 4C Landstill, over 100 and probably close to 200 times), Stifle is used to stop Brain Freeze's Storm Trigger and nothing else.
"But wait, Tacosnape, don't be an idiot. Everyone knows Stifle doesn't hurt Brain Freeze due to Remand or another Counter or simply another Brain Freeze."
I know the arguments. I know Solidarity. There aren't but maybe six people who post in this thread that know it better. Solidarity only barrels through Stifle if it has the resources to do so, and against a well-tuned Landstill deck postboard, it doesn't always have them.
First of all, when playing as 4C Landstill or any other Landstill, the correct thing to do (usually) is to let all High Tides resolve. This will allow you to hardcast an entire hand full of Counterspells, Force of Wills, and if you run them, Orim's Chants and Extirpates. Therefore, what usually will happen is that Solidarity will build up a godhand, and so will you. Solidarity will attempt to kill you at some point, and you will stop the high impact draw spells: Meditate, Impulse, and sometimes Cunning Wish. If you are given priority at the right time, Extirpate Flash of Insight, or on rare occasions you can hit both Cunning Wish -and- Brain Freeze.
What will often result is an epic clash of spells and counterspells that will end with Landstill stopping Solidarity's resources, but while leaving a Storm Count of about 14 or 15, with Solidarity trying to kill you with a rogue Brain Freeze. Stifle will save your ass here, and it will do it far more often than you'd expect.
Don't expect Stifle to ever win a game singlehandedly against Solidarity, but having a rogue one in your hand will swing a tight resource war to Landstill's favor, and Solidarity would do well to be aware of this situation.
First i would like to say I am with noobslayer. Now is not the meta to play solidarity, but if you do just go mono blue. But i think the faster combo will be hated out a bit more effectively soon, possibly in a way that will allow solidarity to wreck shop again. I have hit a wall with this deck. I can go to a tournament and make the deck so it is favorable (often grossly favorable) against discard+combo (same SB strategy) thresh, but not goblins, or goblins thresh but not discard, or discard goblins but not thresh. I will need to figure that out soon.
As far as landstill. Tacnoscape is right. the battle is so intense and draining both decks usually run out of steam and that last stifle can wreck your day, but I still think the matchup is greatly in your favor. Primarily because of the weak clock, but mostly because the landstill player has to be very skilled at playing the deck (something i don't encounter often).
The real problem of Solidarity is not Landstill, but TES & Belcher.
The Landstill matchup is even. The Fast-Combo matchup is terrible.
When TES & Belcher are gone, Solidarity may do a comeback.
Right now, forget it.
In my oppinion Solidarity's Matchup against the fast combodecks is far from terrible. In the past Solidarity was known for its good matchups against all other combodecks. This isn't true anymore, as the other combodecks became much faster and more stable. But I think that your Matchup against TES and Belcher is still about 50 %. I've tested the Solidarity VS Belcher Matchup alot and Solidarity won 57 out of 100 games.
This decks real problem are much more all the fish and ******** decks which are quite popular now due to the rise of the other faster combodecks.
The existance of Counterbalance/Top is another reason for Solidarity's loss of popularity.
How many of those games were post board, and what did you board?Quote:
Originally Posted by Muradin
I thnk only about 30 were postboarded or so and I boarded in 2 echoing truth/2 spell snare for 2 flash of insight, 1 twincast, 1 brainfreeze.
He boarded +2 orims chant.(It was an older list playing no chants main, but 4 Xantid Swarm.)
This might influence the results against a TES deck nowadays, but I did the testing some months ago and TES is evolving quite fast.
The problem against TES is that it always adapts to the current situation. Burning wish allows it access to a plethora of different answers. Although Solidarity controls the stack like none other, TES just has a faster plan. I've found the TES match-up to be horrendous.
The belcher match-up is much easier. I think Solidarity will have to stay down for a while because the current meta doesn't suit it at all.
I say keep it down and kick it while it's there.
sorry guys, but I am the blue control player across the table that would much rather play against combo decks that loose to countermagic than one that was built to rape it.
my 2 cents...
Hi there,
could we please discuss the viability of a colour splash post GenCon?
I know everybody thinks this deck is dead, but i really want to keep it alive. Even if this means switching to the sorcery-speed version (which we can discuss too, if somebody is interested).
4 Wastelands and 4 Stifle in the U/G Thresh build really looks scary and let me rethink the viability of a spash, since the main reason for me to splash is fighting Meddling Mage. What do others think?
If i would splash than either red with 2 SB Pyroblast or white for Orims Chant STP.
Currently i run the mono blue build, with 6 Fetches, 4 Opt and 1 Twincast main.
My Sideboard looks something like this:
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
1 Stroke
1 Brain Freeze
3 Hydroblast
3 Spell Snare
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Echoing Truth
1 Rebuild
Let me know what you think.
Contact Anwar or the Hatfields for tips on the sorcery speed version, as they are the ones I know of who have been recently testing it out.
I'm trying out the red splash at the moment and I'm going to use it at my next tournament. It's probably still the best idea to use a momo-blue list tough.
Your sideboard is a bit weird. Twincast should be in there at least 2 times. You don't need 3 Echoing Thruth.
Tell us how it has been worked out for you.Quote:
I'm trying out the red splash at the moment and I'm going to use it at my next tournament. It's probably still the best idea to use a momo-blue list tough.
In my opinion Echoing Truth is one of the most versatile cards you can bring in. I side 2 in against any deck with Empty the Warrens, Ichorid and MM/ Counterbalance. Twincast is good, but i like Spell Snare better, it handles foremost Burning Wish/ Infernal Tutor, MM, Counterbalance, Goyfs, Bob's etc.Quote:
Your sideboard is a bit weird. Twincast should be in there at least 2 times. You don't need 3 Echoing Thruth.
Spell Snare and Twincast aren't really comparable. It will become very hard to fight trough a big number of counters of you do not have Twincasts to counter back.
I guess the Echoing Truths could be a metagame choice. I think you should at least consider replacing one with a Wipe Away.
I don't think that much bounce is necessary. The only match I'd board in that many E-truth is against TES or CRETBelcher, and the latter has a second win condition that e-truth isnt the best answer to. Personally, I think that spell snare, while amazing, is still too narrow in application. Twincast is absolutely amazing though. Against belcher I think the only thing I've found to be a decent play so far is having a force for their mana sources early on. They can often win turn 1, but if you can stop the right spell you'll be able to get them. Its still a bad matchup though, and always will be.
I will say that the only thing I've considered is the potential of pulling the hydroblasts for snares, but I just don't think I can do it, red decks are just too fast. Wipe Away is good too for some of the control matches.
I played mono blue Solidarity to a 2nd place in a small tournament (10 players) yesterday, here in Brazil.
Round 1 vs Burn
I won 2-0. He started both games suspending Rift Bolt. This made me relax a little bit, thinking his deck was not optimal. In both games, I went off with 5 lands, but with letal damage in the stack.
Round 2 vs Rifter
First game was easy as it should be. Second game he started with Chrome Mox, land, Pyrostatic Pillar; second turn another land, another Pyrostatic Pillar. I have draw no Cunning Wish or Hydroblast, and I lost. In the third game, things were normal again.
Round 3 vs Goblin
First game he killed me in the 4th turn. I tried to go off and was able to brain freeze his whole deck, but not to make him draw or to turnabout his Goblins. Second game I won the race and went off in the 4th turn, but game 3 I lost again.
Round 4 vs UG Denial (Counters and Land destruction)
First game I started playing lands and Cantrips, and he started destroying my lands. I twincasted an Ice Storm to destroy a Mishra's Factory in the 4th turn, the he played Eternal Witness and started to beat me. I tried to go off with 3 lands, but he countered some of my spells and I played a brain freeze with storm count of 10, keeping High Tide, Turnabout and Cunning Wish in my hand. In my turn I played High Tide, Turnabout my lands and Cunning Wish for Brain Freeze, and finished the job.
Second game I tryed to go off with 6 lands, with my life at 3. I played High Tide, he forced, I forced, he forced again, I left the forces and high tide on the stack and played Reset, Impulse for Metidate, Turnabout my lands, Meditate for Force of Will, Reset, Brainstorm and Cunning Wish. When I played the Reset, he said "I don't wanna see you doing it again" :tongue:
A Threshold won the tournament (I was lucky not to play against him, he was using a UG version with Counterbalance MD), Solidarity took 2nd place and Goblins took 3rd. I'm pretty satisfied with the deck and with my performance, although I have to practice more. Many times I spent a long time (by long time I mean 5-10 minutes) thinking what was the right decision while comboing.