Thanks for the insight!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
I was going to try it out tonight but my friends want to play standard instead lol. Irony much?
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Thanks for the insight!Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
I was going to try it out tonight but my friends want to play standard instead lol. Irony much?
Split the finals of weekly magic with a list very similar to this. Still unsure if the fatty-permanents (lab, in the eye, bane) should just be force of will or not.
// Lands
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [DPA] Island (1)
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [SOK] Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
1 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [DK] Maze of Ith
// Creatures
3 [DIS] Tidespout Tyrant
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
// Spells
3 [OD] Standstill
3 [GP] Repeal
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [7E] Arcane Laboratory
SB: 1 [LG] In the Eye of Chaos
SB: 2 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 3 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [NE] Submerge
SB: 4 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [C13] Bane of Progress
I've seen a number of lists running Mikokoro, Center of the Sea. I'd like to understand what role this plays in various matchups. I get that you can use it to mess with Infernal Tutor, but what else do you use it for? Having never played it, symmetrical card draw seems less than optimal, even on a land. Are there particular situations where this card does work that I'm just not seeing?
I've run into a few corner cases...Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube
I once used it against a Miracles player after they tapped out to put (what I suspected to be) a Terminus on top of their library to counter a Primeval Titan.
I also used it against a Laboratory Maniac OmniTell build after they cast Enter the Infinite but before Maniac hit play. They had already used their Trickbind on a Venser and, apparently, had no other solution.
I've done similar stuff against Oops, All Spells but, really, half the deck can wreck Oops, All Spells.
I've found that the trick to getting Mikokoro to work consistently in the Storm matchup is to hold onto at least 2 Repeals or Vensers. If they suspect it's coming, they'll leave a Lion's Eye up to sac after Mikokoro, so you Repeal the untapped one first to either force a search for Lion's Eye or, if they sac it in response, then you Mikokoro them.
This is saucy as hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by AppendixG
I'm amazed that you have lived long enough to actually cast Venser. When I play against storm, I'm usually dead by turn 3. Also, none if this spell shenanigans works if they are playing Xantid swarms.Quote:
Originally Posted by AppendixG
I agree with BoozeCube, I'm not sold on it either. I like the aspect of having an additional mana sink in the deck but I'm never going to want to crop rotation for it...and there are scenarios where I really need to hit a colored mana source and draw it instead. It does seem pretty decent with standstill though!
There are very few cards in this deck that will actually kill an opponent. And there are very few cards in the deck that will permanently disable an opponent, so I value cards based on how much time they can buy in certain match ups. Glacial Chasm versus Burn, for example, buys about three turns. Bojuka Bog versus Reanimator can buy you 1-3 turns. Mikokoro, in my experience, buys at least one turn versus Storm.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
It's definitely not a lot, but it's something.
I think the biggest issue is cross-compatibility. Glacial Chasm is good against decks other than Burn. Same with Bojuka Bog. Mikokoro is almost exclusively useful in the Storm matchup, it doesn't have a lot of applicability anywhere else (barring the above, extremely rare cases). It's easily the narrowest "toolbox" land in the deck. So, if you don't have a lot of Storm in your meta, that's definitely a reason to cut it.
Who else has been working with DTT? I haven't seen it in recently posted lists.
DTT has been absolutely amazing. It feels like having instant speed primeval titans. In fact, they fulfil a very similar role. Resolve it and get any combination of two awesome cards. I have yet to lose a game after resolving it. In games where you're behind it allows you to find the correct combination of disruption/lands/creatures to get back in the race. This is my current list:
4 Primeval Titan
2 Dig Through Time
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Crop Rotation
4 Senseis Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Show and Tell
4 Repeal
2 Moments Peace
3 Pithing Needle
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Tropical Island
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Cavern of Souls
Went undefeated at another weekly magic event with this build. Matchups were Shardless BUG (2-1), Omnishow (2-0), Lands (2-0)
// Lands
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
4 [FNM] Cloudpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [DPA] Island (1)
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [SOK] Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
// Creatures
3 [DIS] Tidespout Tyrant
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
1 [FD] Trinket Mage
// Spells
3 [OD] Standstill
3 [GP] Repeal
3 [US] Show and Tell
4 [MM] Brainstorm
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [SH] Mox Diamond
1 [ZEN] Expedition Map
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [FUT] Venser, Shaper Savant
SB: 3 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [NE] Submerge
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [LG] In the Eye of Chaos
SB: 1 [US] Arcane Laboratory
SB: 3 [AL] Force of Will
Only sideboard work I would like to do is more cards to deal with infect. I would prefer 1 wasteland, 1 submerge, 1 moment's peace over 3 fow, but not sure if I can deal with no FOW anywhere when going to a large event, where things like belcher/oops will be present.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
congrtaz on the win. But how you manage to win agains omnitell? the matchup seems awfall :/ even with sideboarding
I guess that's why there are 3 Tidespout Tyrant main. Omnitell needs S&T to put Omniscience into play. You put the Tyrant into play. They do something, you play any instant, bounce the Omnitell. They have nothing, you have a nice clock. But it's only guessing, never tried Tyrant so farQuote:
Originally Posted by Ancestral
well instants isnīt the thing in this deck, and that cenario i guess that would be not very likly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
But bringing the tyrant point, why there are 3 in main deck ? i hope rock lee can answer this questions ;)
Tyrant is there exactly for that reason. Omni has to cast show and tell to win, I won my Game 1 against them by having Tyrant in hand with 3 instants, one being crop rotation for a mikokoro. He cast enter the infinite off a turn 3 show and tell'd omniscience, when I put in tyrant. I cast brainstorm (bouncing omni), he dug through time, I responded with crop rotation(bouncing omni), tutored up mikokoro and let his enter the dig through time, then enter the infinite resolve. He puts back one card, I untap and mikokoro us both to zero cards in his library, he draws for turn and loses.
The game 1 plan isn't amazing, but it still works. I've been working on getting more instants available for the plan. Current list is testing less/no repeals, but with moment's peaces and mazes combined.
thanks for the answer. but omni tells i face donīt run EtI anymore, or dream halls, just the new build so they SnT into omniscience and then play emrakull, you can put tyrant but the priority remains in their side so he can play emrakull before boiuncing omniscience and that is GG. so i thin its just a marginal situation where tyrant can be good. other than this having tyrant in hand and instants and mana to play them in a short period isnīt a strenght of the deck so this senario seems a bit unlickly :/ but tyrant main deck has other really good pourpose on other matchups to deserve 3 (!!) slots main board ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
just trying to figure it out the options here since i donīt play this deck much (but i want too xD (but i play legacy for a long time now)) .
and how is standstill working for you ?
You could always play another instant to bounce Emrakul, since Tyrant is a permanent and Emrakul only has protection from colored spells. You've also got Karakas to deal with Emrakul once he hits the field, so if one of your instants is a Crop Rotation you should grab that if you expect it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancestral
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppendixG
doesnīt work, emmy gain him an extra turn, bounce him its just another turn and another , etc. canīt deal with that this way, thats why i m saying that tyrants doensīt seem to good in this matchup
Well, yeah, this is all assuming you bounced Omniscience, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancestral
thats already a lot of stuff xD and they have an extra turn either wayQuote:
Originally Posted by AppendixG
Call me old school but I still like Glen-Elendra Archmage as dedicated Omni hate. Krosan Grip too.
Not sure I like Tyrant but the play is legit: you play Tyrant on their S&T, they dig, you rotate for Karakas bouncing Omni...even if they get another S&T they are still having to deal with Karakas and another possible bounce from Tyrant...
I play a split of 2 Krosan Grip and 2 Seal of Primordium. GEA is way too expensive imo, since Omnitell often combos turn 3 :-/Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHarding
I think you miased what i m saying, often omni tell players sculp a pretry good hand and when you put tyrant of snt they put omni and them play emrakull, no dig or no other spell to pass pruority in betwwenQuote:
Originally Posted by Raystar
Ok, they put Omnitell into play, you put Tidespout Tyrant into. They keep priority and hardcast Emrakul for zero mana. So you get priority, cast Crop Rotation. Tyrant triggers, you choose to bounce Omnitell. Crop Rotation resolves, you go for Karakas and bounce Emrakul. Sure they get an extra turn, but without a second Show and Tell in hand and no Omniscience in play: who cares?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancestral
Sure i understand that is a possible cenario but having that and he doesnt have anything else its even unliclky! So my questiom is : tyrant has big impact in other matchups? Because run 3 for omni tell for a narrow case seems a bit bad just my thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
They can always 1st cast another omni of the 1st then your titan ist just nothing. You keep casting spells to bounce the omnis he still recasts. And when you are out of spells your dead. Also they can force your crop for karakas and your dead.
I think for this purpose playing cards like arcane laboratory is just better.
Ok, so there are people which don't like the Tyrant plan. I'm curious about your ideas how to fight Omnitell not only in theory, but in real life. ;-) Just hoping to be lucky enough to avoid the MU of perhaps the most played combo deck - at least in my area - isn't an option ;-)
Arcane lab + krossan grip
Krossan grip + karakas (and pray he dosnt have a second omniscence)
[QUOTE=Postman;882995]Ok, so there are people which don't like the Tyrant plan. I'm curious about your ideas how to fight Omnitell not only in theory, but in real life. ;-) Just hoping to be lucky enough to avoid the MU of perhaps the most played combo deck - at least in my area - isn't an option ;-)[/QUO
I would overload counters to try stop show and tell and not beeing reative after that card resolve!.i have 4 flusters 4 force 1 arcane, and i think thats it. And have to pray too
Arcane lab shares the problem you mentioned above about the crop for Karakas : opponent could have a force. Krosan Grip is always in my Sideboard, but it doesn't help very much if opponent keeps priority
Arcane its more likk an aanti storm card but if you a drop it fromshow and tell they passe the turn so its already better. Bue fluster and force are more.reliableQuote:
Originally Posted by Postman
Well, if you have kept a permanent with an ETB trigger to put on S&T, you will have priority before they get to abuse Omni.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancestral
That's the better way to deal with Omni while playing krosan grip !
Exactly, and there's usually >10 etb triggers (your triggers) in post. Add that to 4x Fluster, FOW, venser, glen eldendra, and co, you can create a strong game plan. Glen eldendra locks the game out, and is respectable off of SnT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
You can also swap BEB for Swan Song. Arcane lab, and Eye are cool too. Beating Omni is doable in post, and we did the last time it was top tier - it just takes massive warping.
Force and fluster are not really good due to omni playing boseiju and being able to combo as instant thatks to cunning and fireminds firesight.
Yes they aren't a 1 card answer to the archetype. Not all SB options function like Leyline of the Void does as a singular mull-to answer - it's got to be a team effort. FOW and Fluster are always welcome in my hand against any combo. To help bring the game to the additional hate pieces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
I've still been jamming this:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Vesuva
1 Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Bajouka Bog
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Trinket Mage
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
4 Brainstorm
3 Repeal
3 Crop Rotation
4 Force of Will
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Expedition Map
1 Candelabra of Townos
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ponder
3 Show and Tell
SB
2 Swan Song
4 Flusterstorm
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Glen-Elendra Archmage
1 Golgari Charm
2 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Krosan Grip
So many sweet lines in this deck when you have a llanowar elves effect. Lots of 'wide' SB effects in the MD which allows post SB games to have so many live cards.
That's not too deep into bug. How did that bug list do from a month or so back?Quote:
Originally Posted by TimHarding
has anybody tried wild cards like jotun grunt , silent arbiter , embargo or defense of the heart ?
Why don't you try to open up your trail of thought here instead of just spitting seemingly random cards out without any explanations whatsoever?Quote:
Originally Posted by Drixx
I'm thinking maybe Jotun Grunt is a nod toward some disruption and/or early blocking vs. their early threats. Defense of the Heart is probably a way to get the Eldrazi in play in a more creature-centric build.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
On another note, I was watching SCG Worcester coverage wondering how this deck did in that event. It appears as if Rock Lee didn't make it to day 2 - I was curious how the new Standstill build would do in this metagame but maybe the field of Omnitell and Miracles was just a bit too hostile. I hope he keeps us up-to-date on how his new build fared.
Additionally, if any other 12posters were at SCG Worcester, could you guys give us a brief report on what you saw and how the deck performed for you?
Played my mono green post. Went 1-5 then dropped, started and ended my day against burn. Round 1 game 3 I forgot my Chasm trigger and then natural ordered for primeval titan. Would have definitely won if I remembered to pay life And Keep it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MGB
Round 2 vs storm was horrible. Pretty much a bye for him.
Round 3 against uwr stoneblade wasnt even a match, I just crushed Him.
Round 4 mistyped against gb depths. Completely forgot that crop rotation is a card they play, got killed sitting on lots of mana, Karakas and maze of Ith.
Round 5 against rug lands. I got greedy round 3, grabbed post instead of Savannah to drop sacred ground and proceeded to get locked out with wasteland.
Round 6 was burn, she had the best draw possible against me. Game 2 I was floating a Chasm, dropped natural order for titan, casted a titan then had to sac Chasm and she burned me to death before I could attack