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i absolutely did read through it. i didnt find the answers which is why im asking. you're quite helpful. I honestly dont know if chandra, pyromaster or koth is better. i understand they are wincons. but when am i really bringing it. in.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
I'm playing Koth. Miracles has very few ways to get him off the table, and zero ways to deal with his emblem.
^jandax wasn't being rude, just stating that this deck is also control, which is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJT
Anyways, alternate winconcs are discussed for a reason, as there's no real answer for which one is "best" at all times, it all depends on metagame and personal preferences.
As for when to bring them in, it's mostly against control, as you can slam down a 1-card wincon after they've depleted their counterspells and removal on your combo pieces. Eventually against eldrazi decks (ex Sneak'n'Show), as combo needs even more setup and can be hard to establish through SB hate from their side. And of course, it depends on which beatstick you're using.
The too much popular Miracles is maybe the reason why we're runnings alts at all, as you'd bring in any additional bombs available. Koth was total king before, but lack a bit standing power due to Mentor atm, which is why you won't see him too often anymore. Still the best against them if you can keep mentor of the table, or resolve a bridge and keep hand empty.
Chandra is awesome against DnT and Y.Pyromancer, but less useful than Koth against Miracles and Sneak'n'Show due to Koth's ult. So check your meta for what to expect~
There's others, and personally I'm running Pia and Kiran Nalaar atm. I like it because it can be tutored, and fits as a 1-of in my current Delver and Miracles infested meta.
You should not bring them in against other combos decks (no shit) or other fast decks such as Merfolk, Zoo, burn, etc..
Pretty sure the past ten pages had multiple lists but too lazy to check. I think I'm the only one if not one of the few running pyromaster right now. I run her main. You bring koth in vs control decks. 2 bridge main, 1 board. I think duergar hedge mage is better than manic vandal. There's a definite argument for heretic at the moment though. The answer for burn is pretty split but I think sphere of law is a much better answer as leaving the mana up for cop can be rough and often would require tapping Ancient Tomb anyway.
That's why I mentioned it. And I wasn't being rude, but a first post from someone just asking known questions doesn't really motivate people to respond. How was one to know that you read through a good bit of the thread?
I'd like to chime in on heretic: I have both heretic and hedge Mage in my board. Heretic has sometimes been too slow but when it shines it's winning you the game, which is what I want in a silver bullet.
You're spot on about the other things you mentioned and if I were you, just go with jacks updated list. It's tuned for the American scg style meta, which is why you're choosing the deck over esper right?
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Some of this has been answered already.
The first few posts of this thread has a sideboard guide that is actually still pretty relevant.
Yeah that's about it, it's to slow in most other matchups. I guess you could bring it in against Sneak and Show as a finisher since milling them out is off the table, but the more important aspect to that matchup is getting a revoker on Sneak Attack, and getting a Bridge into play. The reason you would play this card is because you've got ways to find it unlike say Koth which we have no tutor for.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJT
Basically the same as Assemble the Legion, harder to deal with but not a card you can tutor for.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJT
COP:Red isn't bad, but as others have pointed out Sphere of Law might be the better choice if you want to beat Burn... that said I think any card you have in your sideboard should do double duty or be applicable in other matchups. Rando thought of the day, have we considered Eidolon of Rhetoric? Blocks red creatures pretty good, and slows there clock a lot, and is outside of bolt range. It's also seems decent against storm.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJT
Yes. Keep in mind on of the better things you can do aginst RUG / BUG decks with Goyf is to deny them Green Mana with Moons. Rest in Peace is indeed really good, but better against RUG IMO since it also makes Nimble Mongoose pretty weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJT
Heretic is better against Stoneforge Mystic / MUD strategies, Vandal is better when you expect that you'll only need to blow up like one artifact (null rod, Pithing Needle, Revoker)Quote:
Originally Posted by AJT
I am running two main and zero in the board, and plan to lean on Enlightend Tutor more to find this when needed. But I think two main 1 in the board is more popular.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJT
The chances of you having a miror match are minimal. I think the sideboard strategy would be minimal. +Vandal and any Revokers you might have maybe take out a red blast or 2?Quote:
Originally Posted by AJT
Chandra is a fine card, but I don't know that I would run her in the R/W version even though she can regain you some of the Card Advantage you lose. Others have pointed out the pros and cons already.Quote:
Originally Posted by AJT
If you want a sweeper I think your better off with Pyroclasm, Slice and Dice or Pyrokinesis, over Electrickery.
Rite of the Raging Storm Is a pretty intresting card.
Seems a bit faster then Assemble the Legion.
Still gets hit by Wear//Tear and while initially untapping with it is better than AtL, I'd rather have AtL out because in the long run it will generate more damage. And it does not play well with bridge at all.
Good point on bridge.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Not sure that it's extremely relevant that AtL will out grow it in the long run, because by the time that happens they should already be basically dead...
Not playing well with Bridge is a very relevant point though.
Yeah because Entreat is a real card and wincon for them and above all a 3CMC that hurts us. That with Clique and Council's Judgement, they'll have plenty of chances to score a 3CMC card when they get CB online. Bridge has saved me plenty of times from Entreat and nowadays with Mentors running amok I'm leaving it in and going the dork-beatdown wincon route (assuming I can't combo off)
Hi,
I am preparing my deck list and it is difficult for me to decide witch sideboard i will playing. Can someone help me please?
Mains list :
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
1 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Goblin Welder
4 Blood Moon
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Grindstone
3 Lotus Petal
4 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Plains
3 Mountain
1 Great Furnace
1 Wooded Foothills
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Plateau
4 Arid Mesa
Sideboard :
2 Koth of the Hammer
1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sphere of Law
1 Trinisphere
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Rest in Peace
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Sudden Demise
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
I can not go to Seatle but i will go to an other tournament this week. I think the meta game is storm, miracle, elfes, BUG, Loam...
I am not sure for 2 Sudden Demise + 1 Vexing Shusher. Firebolt is missing i know, is-it a problem or not?
Thanks for your anwser!
Any painter players attending the GP want to meet up for group picture before the event?
I will be at the GP. Don't know that I will make it for a photo op, but otherwise wouldn't mind putting some names with faces. My name is Dan Rude. Hope to see some of you there!
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And here I thought you were the "Rude Dude" and just combined it for Drude. :P sadly can make it to the Pacific NW but I'm saving it for my trip to the NJ open in a few weeks.
Good luck this weekend, guys!
Painter mirror in the finals?Quote:
Originally Posted by Uroborian
What match ups do you sideboard out blasts?
You can side out a couple if you got a lot of important SB cards against a non-blue deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by nonbasicland
Quite normal against Elves and Maverick since there's often a lot of burn to be slotted in addition, and not too much of the main is dead.
I'm at the GP. @nonbasicland on Twitter
Just finished my day 1 with no byes, 8-1. Lost last round to veteran explorer/cloud post/eldrazi deck.
Congrats! Sadly, I scrubbed out early. As a consolation, I went undefeated in the Legacy side event with G/W 12 Post.Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanS2k
Good Luck tomorrow.
Made day two! 7-2. Lost to control lands and miracles on poor draws.
Spellskite maindeck was a house.
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I watched that game, Ugin is brutal, but you did great.Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanS2k
Post list in Turbo Eldrazi forum, please! Going to buy in!Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
Well done you guys. After an 0-2 start (I need more god damn planeswalker points), I died at 3-3 after losing to the mirror in the 6th round. He won in game 3 by answering my turn two Koth with a Koth of his own.
I crashed and burned half way through day two. Losing again to miracles and then a very good game against a merfolk opponent. Overall I ended up 9-6, obviously after graciously losing to the one Opps all spells player who made day 2 and turned oned me.
All in all deck played great day 1 and awful day two. Flooding horribly many winnable games. I'll report the breakdown later.
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SCG Philly PIQ was a not so great showing for painter. I ended 4-3. Losing to Jack (kap'n cook) along the way. He ended 5-2.
Still making day two is a pretty good showing IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
Can't wait to hear your report and see what went wrong vs Miracles and Merfolk.
Also great job. Sounds like I need to go back though the archive and watch your last round?Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanS2k
Can't wait to see a write up!
I scrubbed out of a fairly big tournament due to horrible play. Deck was just fine.
For those running a basic plains, I can recommend the following mana base. It was never clunky and played to moons strength the whole time:
3 city
4 tomb
4 arid Mesa
1 plains
4 mountain
1 furnace
2 plateau
There was one time where I needed double red but moon was already out and it was more of a win-more situation. Never got clunky. I'm happy with this moving forward.
I run seven blasts, six moons, Jaya and revoker as silver bullets and 2/2 tutor-top with the rest of the standard stuff. For what its worth I run double effects of things in the side board like heretic and hedge mage, thorn and 3ball (duh), bridge and peace keeper (more playable due to the md plains) and an extra tutor to board in. I don't see that in other lists and am curious why more don't double down on effects we need to trump other strategies. We don't run blue to make finding them easier so it seems that with limited card advantage a little redundancy is a strength.
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So yea as Mapson mentioned earlier I went 5-2 at Philly for 22nd. Kind of disappointing result as it was a smaller tournament because a ton of people were in Seattle. I lost the first two rounds to miracles and burn. Frustrating against miracles because I had the game locked with double moon double bridge vs his mentor and ended up topping for like 8 turns only seeing lands and all tops. Then got double wear/teared around turn 25.
Burn is just insane and I'm not even sure sphere will truly help because of their >2 damage spells and speed. This one was also running green for I assume revelry and saw two other burn players through the day playing plateaus for I assume wear/tear.ill probably always waver over sphere in the board and it won't be wrong or right either way. Game two on the play I went for the kill turn 3 with him tapped out and he fireblasted my painter. I had named red and killed his guide and eidolon in response with pyrokinesis. The board was left at me with plateau, city, petal, grindstone and 18 life vs his empty board and 3 cards in hand. I died 4 turns later like it was nothing.
The last 5 rounds restored the faith at least. Beat dredge, shortcake mirror, ur delver, rug delver, uwr delver.
I played this for anyone who cares:
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace
5 fetch
4 Mountain
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
3 Goblin Welder
2 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Blood Moon
4 Grindstone
3 Lotus Petal
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 ensnaring bridge
4 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 enlightened tutor
The board
4 Firebolt
2 pyrokinesis
1 duergar hedge-Mage
1 vexing shusher
1 ethersworn canonist
1 enlightened tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Rest in Peace
1 thorn of amethyst
1 trinisphere
1 engineered explosives
So you ran Shusher as your Miracles hate? How did you like that? Personally, I never have loved it because it feels so mana intensive. If you play it early it just gets removed so you want to hold for the turn you want to play something.
Also, I'm totally off Magus again. My last loss in the GP was to LANDS!!! Had Magus out early game one and it just got"punished". Game two he played an early Molten Vortex and my Magus sat in my hand the entire game 2. I would say it's good against shardless and 12 post and that's about it. Definitely not worth a main slot in my opinion..
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If I had been able to find anything while topping shusher would've been great. It was only after a million turns it got terminused away (including mentor and like 8 tokens) before I found relevant stuff like stone. So it didn't do anything in this specific instance and koth would've won, but it has been useful in other games for getting through balance. I got tired of having three blasts in hand with no way to break through. I know others have used it so it's nothing groundbreaking, but with that thinking I was cool with cutting the 8th blast, which I don't think is as necessary as during omni and dig and chose a recruitable guy. Yea it is kindof mana intensive but with a moon out it probably should accomplish the goal of same turn kill balance? With the upside of living and ensuring other stuff gets through? Dunno
In that spectrum is assemble the legion any more mana intensive? It wins by itself and is a trump to terminus. But it costs and i know it has already been discussed. And are you facing miracles in the winners bracket or the draw bracket? Says a lot about what you're up against.
There's been a rise in monastery mentor miracles which has tremendously cut down on the number in the draw bracket. Now it seems draw bracket is solely control v control matchups or bad players or bad control players
For me the MentorMiracles provides positive problems for me... Back in the day, bolts and Sudden Shocks were kinda bad against the deck, but when the miracle guy plays his Mentor and gives priority for something random - fetch, go, whatever - I get to shock it and he spent a wincon for nothing...Quote:
Originally Posted by Uroborian
On the other hand, resolving a turn 2 Koth and getting the first mountain on turn 7 is not gonna win the match :/
Using Double Petal / Double Sprirt Guide / Spirit Guide Petal to resolve an early Koth with no mountains in your hand seems like a misplay to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix4
Perhaps that hand wasn't actually keepable.
^^some how i would rather do this in a sanctioned match than, the mirror, per se
How often would y'all mulligan a hand that wasn't 60% dakramen given a good read or known match up? I feel that sometimes i know what i should do but do a more solitaire minded line of play. Hindsight is always 20/20. Just curious for move insight on how others approach match ups in general and specially.
Hownice it is that blood moon gained stock. One card combos are just great
6-0 in the past 2 weeks in matches. Very few (maybe 1 or 2 games) were Blood Moon wins.
Just wanted to thank the forum members for pushing me to put Spellskite in the main 8) Card has been an MVP in many matchups. With goblin welder (I'm running 3) Spellskite is just abusive.
Thanks!
DING! DING! DING!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish
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I haven't played much painter lately except for practice games on MODO, mosty because I absolutely hate the miracles MU, I have cut the 1 magus because lately he just dies to a Pfire or a bolt and added a top to the main, I have also tested spellskite in the board and so far I really like the results.
I've also liked Spellskite main, and will keep it awhile for now. However I would not cut any welder, but instead sent Magus to sideboard (cutting 8th blast).