Thanks for the idea on the board, sorry its taken me so long to respond. I ended up playing that board with a Grim Tutor over DP main deck, which has now been changed to DP and the massacre and 1 flusterstorm have been changed to Disfigure.
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Thanks for the idea on the board, sorry its taken me so long to respond. I ended up playing that board with a Grim Tutor over DP main deck, which has now been changed to DP and the massacre and 1 flusterstorm have been changed to Disfigure.
Hey guys, is there an unconventional card for sb that can help me to beat miracles? I started thinking I am not gonna win a single match up against that deck, here in Italy Miracles is much more common than US and there are many really good players playing it. I read some pages ago that EtW is considered a really good card against them but I don't agree since Izzet staticaster has become really common and they side it against us. With that card plus the 2-3 StP they keep, also Xantid Swarm is much less effective. And Mentor Miracle is become an even worse match up, since it is faster and we cannot side in the dread of night, we don't have the space for them.
My current sb is:
2 Xantid
1 Carpet
3 Dread of Night
2 Flusterstorm
1 EtW
3 Abrupt Decat
1 Krosan Grip
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Wipe Away
But I really started thinking to come back to Pithing Needle, it's the only card that can slow down Miracles and avoid the "Force/Flusterstorm on top" situations.
What do you think of these cards vs Miracles?
-Defence Grid
-Surgical Extraction
-2 more Ad Nauseam in SB (1 MD) with maybe 1 more carpet?
A somewhat uncommon option (these days) is 4 Doomsday, 1 Emrakul, 1 Shelldock Isle (can probably run 1 Needle as well) in the board. It's bad if they're expecting it, but if their creature hate postboard is Staticaster, EE and a couple Plows it seems pretty good. Could even go a little further and add 2 SB tops and an Ideas Unbound to morph into DDFT postboard, but I don't think it's worth the space. I think Slosh ran a DD package in some tournament earlier this year (Ovino? Prague eternal?), and didn't like it too much but I might have missremembered..
As for Xantid Swarm, I haven't been boarding it versus them most of them (maybe 20% or so, have to keep people guessing a bit), since there are so few postboard setups in their range that are really weak to it.
As for your suggestions:
- I don't think Surgical is good vs Miracles, but Extirpate isn't the worst.
- I don't like Defense Grid in ANT without white at all because they often only need one counter and will let your discard resolve with 3 mana open. With chant effects it's a good card though.
- I don't think we need either a second carpet or a second/third AdN in the board for this matchup.
I have an incredible record against miracles this year usually boarding something like 3-4 decay, 1 grip, 1 carpet, 1 top/needle, 1 empty. But variance and opponents not being aware of EtW was definately a key reason for that.
P.S. What's the reasoning for playing Wipe Away over the 4th Decay, 2nd Chain, or 2nd Grip?
Thx for the answer. Btw how many EtW do you use? Have you ever been counter-raced with a Mentor?
For Wipe, there is no real reason tbh, I really like Wipe Away for its versability (since it's like a chain that avoids Calice and counters and can be used in extreme situations of race against PW and creatures) but it's the first slot out when I am gonna change the sideboard. It's really a matter of personal preference to put it over the second grip or the second chain.
Anyway what do you think of Carpet in this match up? I consider it less effective then vs threshold UGR, unless we are planning to pass through AdN (that's why I suggested the second copy with 3 AdN). In my opinion AdN is the strongest card (and plan) vs Miracle. Pif is weak because RIP and because it doesn't close by itself.
Even if with mentor on board they can close in a couple of turns, their race is quite delayed in the game, since they tend to play it at turn 4-5, therefore I think AdN is a good plan IF it can be resolved. That's why I came up with this uncommon solution: 1 AdN MD (or even 2), 2 AdN SB, 2 Boseiju SB and maybe 1 MD. With this set up, all the pressure that Miracles put on us disappears. We are not forced to try to find solutions fast before he goes in control. We can collect manas and hard cast with the help of petals and carpets AdN with Boseiju in his turn and close the next turn, since with 20 cards it will be hard for him to have more contrasts than our solutions.
I usually board 4 Decays and nothing else. Most of my wins against miracles come from Ad Nauseam. I'm often able to win if I have a turn 1 discard spell plus turn 2 win against them. If that doesn't work, I usually go long against them and rely on AD to kill CB. My record is definitely positive against them and any miracles players in my local meta told me they didn't like the matchup, so I'm not too worried.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10708&f=LE
Check out some of the awesome 1 ofs in this particular Storm list...
Pretty hilarious Plan B
Pretty much at my wits' end trying to figure out the best way to deal with Maverick. D&T is a problem occasionally, but not to the same degree because it doesn't run Gaddock Teeg.
My sideboarding plan at this point is as follows:
-3 Duress
-2 Dark Petition
-2 Cabal Therapy
-1 Past in Flames
-1 Tendrils of Agony
+3 Empty the Warrens
+3 Dread of Night
+2 Chain of Vapor
+1 Sudden Shock
Does this look like a reasonable plan? I figure that Mav might not be able to throw down enough blockers to stop a boatload of goblins if we can land Empty on turn 1 or turn 2. It's taking me some time to figure out whether to play or mull hands with this board plan, so if anyone's got some pointers on how it differs from the game-1 plan I'd appreciate the advice. Pretty agonizing to cut back to four tutors, but Petition and AdN are really terrible together in my experience. I'm still on the fence about whether I should run Badlands or a second Island in the main. Badlands would provide a much better out for dumping Empty (and getting a second red source is crucial versus land destruction), but I don't like going down to only two basic lands. Has anyone noticed Wasteland to be a big problem in the Empty plan, or is it usually fast enough to circumvent Waste and the hatebears?
Hi Ronald
I've been playing with 2 DP and this is my preferred postboard 60 vs DNT. Notably removing ad nauseam as its just not as reliable as etw. Also following up empty with the support spells of therapy, chain, or dread seals the deal if it looks like they might catch up on board otherwise. I would call this "Belcher mode"
2 dark petition
1 pif
1 toa
4 tutor
3 empty
3 cabal therapy
3 dread of night
2 chain of vapor
2 ponder
4 probe
4 brainstorm
15 land
16 fast mana
As for the volcanic, just don't pass the turn with volc in play unless u have your next turns combo all planned out without needing mana from said volc.
why?????????????????
he is at one life but he has tendrills.
except the last card in the opp hand is bojuka bog he can still win, he could petition for a cabal ritual, therapy (if its the crop rotation) and then mini tendrills to stay alive.
then continue playing until pif comes and wins.
someon explain please???
Hi,
I'm kinda new to legacy and new to ANT.
I'm learning the deck (goldfish + games on cockatrice) but i'm really lost when it comes to sideboarding.
I've read various primers and articles but I'm still lost because everyone seems to side differently.
Can someone help me with the sideboard plans versus common matchups ?
For reference my list is a stock list with : 2 Pif, 1 Dark Petition, 1 ToA.
My side is :
1 Tropical Island
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Chains of Vapor
2 Dread of Night
1 Disfigure
2 Carpet of flower (or 2 Xantid Swarm ??)
1 Rebuild
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Flusterstorm (or 2 more Empty the Warrens ??)
Hi guys,
writing the first time here :-)! After years of playing competetive legacy with different combo decks, i finally came to the insight of playing a ,,real" challenging combo deck. (Yes i played a lot of Show and Tell..).
--> try out this one: http://www.starcitygames.com/article...mboarding.html
It's more a basic Introduction to Stormboarding, but it gives an insight of the idea how to board, which is basically more important than the exact 15 you are running.
I have also a question to the experienced Stormplayers out here. I am currently testing this Caleb Scherer list http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10443&d=259780&f=LE, with a different boardplan: 4x Dread of Night,3x Abrupt Decay 2x Xantid Swarm ,2xChain of Vapor, 2x Carpet of Flowers, 1x Tropical Island, 1x Empty the Warrens.
I have also issues to figure out how to board correctly in some matchups (espacially what to take out) naming: Miracles, DnT (and Maverick).
So here a few specific questions about boarding situations:
- The List i quoted from Caleb obviously boards in the Green Splash against DNT (since 2x Chain and 2x Disfigure cannot be enough am i correct?). Do i need to board in the Splash with 4x Dread of Night and 2x Chain?
My Boarding against DNT would look like this (but please correct me if this is bullshit, since i am unexperienced): IN: 4x Dread of Night, 2x Chain of Vapor, 1x Empty the Warrens, and OUT: 3x Duress and 4x Cabal Therapy (i am very unsure about how many Cabal Therapys to cut. A Preordain could also be cut ofc... Discard appears pretty much mediocre in this mu to me).
- How about the Matchup against Maverick / Miracles? VS Miracles i am very unsure also what to cut.
- And finally to hopefully understand the power of Disfigure in the board... What is it specifically that makes Disfigure good for us, or in some situations "better" than dread of Night (or maybe also in comparism to Abrupt Decay!?). What came to my mind is: instant speed, 1cc, kills x/2 bears naming Teeg, Cannonist and Mage (Which Dread of Night doesn't). Since Cannonist is often protected by Mom this sometimes makes disfigure useless in theory. I am also thinking about 3-1 (Dread of night - Disfigure Split) or maybe even 2-2 but i don't fully understand the whole spectrum for the use of Disfigure.
Please help me :-) (I am also looking for a very detailed Boarding Help for Legacy Storm if someone knows a Link please share!)
have a nice day,
David!
I've been watching Paul Cheon stream on twitch for a couple days now.
I think Caleb gave him some side plans. Especially versus miracles it seems that Caleb boards in 3 empty, and the green splash, and boards out 3 LED, preordains, 2 infernal tutors and 1 therapy (and maybe 1 petal ?).
However i didnot see Paul win a lot of postboard games with this strategy ...
You can watch Paul's stream and past broadcasts on twitch (he is HAUMPH).
I did on Prague Eternal, haven't faced any CB deck, S+Telling Emrakul against a Griselbrand was the only thing it achived, every time I have it in paper I face exactly 0 relevant decks, maybe that's kind of a recipe ;) .. anyway the tech swings the postboard games to 80/20 range, the problem is you're lacking too many cards against non-U MUs esp. against Teeg and the SBording is very light
Extirpate is great
Defense grid is awful
I liked your 1 Swarm, 1 Carpet in MKM
The thing is he doesn't have much experience and practice and in fact time to find out himself, a lot of people just copy pastes list with no knowledge how the result was achieved or games played out, with popular illusion of Storm is suddenly awesome so many people copypasted Sherers list EtW is not a "surprising" tech anymore (tbh it wasn't stellar when I tested even before the popular list, but the tech might be decent way to SB for tempo if you feel it) and renders G3 awkward... I strongly disagree on boarding out LED and IT - he tries to get small no. of goblins running asap yet in order to do so ignores the IT->LED route which is usualy faster, produces more tokes and keeps plan A intact, he prefers LP for sake of not going all in, which still leaves him with few cards and more time for Opponent to find an answer
to put it short - EtW is good in the MU to have but EtW as THE plan is a poor choice
I watched Paul Cheon's stream and wouldn't recommend it to anybody. He's basically learning to play it himself and asking the viewers questions about card interactions. I remember him asking what Carpet of Flowers does. The guy is silly and not somebody to watch for the finer points of the deck. Watch some videos by Nevilshute or Togores. This thread has some great resources linked to at the start as already mentioned. I think Jonathan Alexander also has a side board article in his blog.
Feel free to hit me up at the GP today, always happy to discuss Storm.
I'm still learning the deck myself but here are my thoughts, maybe someone else can give some insight into this
Cabal Therapy I think still remains good against D&T. You can name key hate cards on the draw before they can deploy it (Thalia mainly), and it pairs well with the Empty the Warrens that you're bringing in from the side. I think cutting Cantrips might be the better than therapy since there's not a ton of time to sculpt a hand in this matchup.
I believe it's mainly there to target Deathrite, but it can also hit things like Stoneforge, Teeg, Meddling Mage, Ethersworn, that a single DoN won't be able to hit. Granted with 4 of them you can pretty easily get to two and kill the other hatebears, but DRS is still going to be a problem, especially in the slower matchups.
I've never seen it before, and forgive me if this is a common thing...but I just saw an ANT player resolve Sylvan Library on camera.
Anyone else jam this, too??
Oh! watching replay atm , totally hyped... just finished hilarious (or pathetic, depending on the point of view) 5C Froelich special ... btw. Library is obv. quite bad...
edit: I hope the Sylvan is MD... despite so much Storm featured the quality plays somehow dodge the stream...
Top-4'd a ~100 player event today. Played 2 DP, 1 EtW, 1 SDT, 1 Preordain main, 0 Flusterstorm, 2 Hurkyl's (quite a bit of MUD and friends around) as most interesting sb choices.
Round-1: Shardless 2-0 1-0
Round-2: Merfolk 2-0 2-0
Round-3: Elves 2-1 3-0
Round-4: Sneak & Show 2-1 4-0
Round-5: Death & Taxes 2-1 5-0
Round-6: ANT ID 5-0-1
Round-7: RIP Miracles ID 5-0-2
Quarter Final: BUG Control 2-0
Semi Final: RIP Miracles 0-2
Punted the final game against miracles, because I missordered my top three the turn before. The line was ritual, ritual, cabal ritual, cabal therapy(counterspell),led,tutor(counterspell), flip top for.. not the Tendrils for 18 that should have been there. That said, I could only pay for 8 copies versus his flusterstorm he was floating so he'd have been on 2 anyways, but terrible plays regardless.
Top-8'ed the same ~100 player event yesterday as JamieW. Played 1 Ad Nauseam, 2 Preordain, 1 Sensei's Divining Top and 7th Discard.
Sideboard:
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Dread of Night
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Chain of Vapor
Round-1: Jund 2-0 1-0
Round-2: Elves 2-1 2-0
Round-3: UW Control 2-0 3-0
Round-4: Miracles 2-1 4-0
Round-5: BUG Control 2-0 5-0
Round-6: ANT ID 5-0-1
Round-7: Sneak&Show ID 5-0-2
Quarter Final: RIP Miracles 1-2
I made a mistake in the first game of the QF; named the wrong card with Cabal Therapy. Had a great weekend though!
Had an amazing time at #GPSeaTac. Met Jonas, Kai and Bryant Cook in person. I was the storm scrub, but sleeved it up for the GP. Right after the DTT ban, I wasn't sure what I wanted to play. Truth be told, it would be the best time in 18 months to play Death and Taxes. But knowing about the rise of Shardless BUG made me re-evaluate playing Thalia and friends.
Starting in October, I started grinding games against a friend to get more comfortable with ANT (crossing over from TES). Played a ton against RUG Delver, Death and Taxes, and Control. I very quickly realized that playing basic lands + Past in Flames maindeck = OP...
Got knocked out of Day 2 contention by the fifth round, but played it out for the experience.
Played something similar to Kai's Kyoto list with 15 land, 1 Tendrils, 2 Past in Flames, 1 Ad Nauseam, 2 Preordain, 1 Sensei's Top, 0 Dark Petition main. Empty the Warrens in the sideboard.
Here's what I played against:
R1 Dredge: L 1-2
R2 Elves: W 2-1
R3 Merfolk: L 0-2
R4 Burn: W 2-1
R5 Shardless BUG: L 1-2
R6 RUG Delver: W 2-1
R7 Infect: W 2-1
R8 BUG Delver: W 2-0
R9 UWR Delver: W 2-1
I punted 2 rounds against Manaless Dredge and Merfolk essentially due to my own silly play mistakes. This deck is not easy!
Highlights of the weekend:
- (in trials) Punishing Jund opponent triple Thoughtseizes me on the play, resolves Chains of Mephistopheles. Fist pumps says he has me dead. I untap and win :)
- (in trials) Shardless BUG opponent goes first in two games, has the Force of Will in both games, I win both games. This is why we play this deck!!!
- (in trials) Elves player has active deathrite, exiles a meaningless Socery in response to my Buyback Tendrils for lethal.
- Burn opponent had Eidolon resolve in all 3 games and I won a nail-biter in game 3.
- RUG Delver player saw 3 Force of Will and 3 Stifles over one game, I never X-for-1'd him ever with Cabal Therapy but still win the game. This is why we play this deck!!!
- T1 and T2 kill BUG Delver opponent. It's supposed to be our worst matchup, right?
- UWR Delver player had 9 power on board, I win at 6 life with Past in Flames.
- Beating Bryant Cook 50% of the time in test games. It was testing, but I wanted to rep Past in Flames Storm :)
Some observations:
- I was much too aggressive with Ad Nauseams, cost me a game or 2. Probably carrying over from my TES days where AN can easily win the game. Have to learn to be more conservative or set up to win easily on my untap step.
- Really torn about Dark Petition. In testing it was pretty bad to flip a 5 CC card, but there were situations where not needing to go Hellbent to find Tendrils would have won me some matches.
- Empty the Warrens is BAD when you can't cast it T1 or even T2 on the draw. I tried playing it main at the side event and absolutely hated it. It stays in the board.
- Top wasn't really all that relevant because I didn't face a ton of discard. Might consider going back to a 3rd Preordain.
- 6 discard spells is just fine. Originally had 3-3 Duress/Therapy split but opted to go 2-4 because there were a ton of Burn decks in the room. Being able to hit Eidolon and Thalia was important.
Overall, a great if mistake-filled time. Keep storming, brothers.
Hello Lovely storm players. My storm-flinging housemate has recently been quite frustrated with the whole idea of how fucking difficult it is to beat the following cards in game 1: Thalia, Chalice of the Void, and Counterbalance. While I may be no storm veteran, I knew there was a solution in one of my favorite cards, waiting to be utilized. Thus, I present to you: Pyromancer's Ascension Tendrils, or simply "God dammit PAT my eyesight is making me see double, you know I can't see your fingers from this distance. No, I didn't go to the store last night, that was your job, I was picking up the kids from soccer practice. "
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dark Petition
4 Dark Ritual
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Past in Flames
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Pyromancer Ascension
It can combo through chalice, and is fairly resilient to force of will because they have to force of will Ascension. Lacks a little bit of the consistency regular ANT has, but makes for it in straight up "No, you don't get to interact with me, at all". Pretty mediocre against DRS decks, but it pretty much could care less about Regular Blue decks (non-DRS), Thalia, Chalice, and Counterbalance.
deck might want a single ad naeseum over 4th pyromancer ascension. It's capable of doing pretty broken stuff when pyro has two counters:
1 colorless 2 black mana up mana up, only infernal tutor in hand, you literally just win the game. Infernal tutor, 2 copies. First one resolves and you grab a dark ritual, holding priority add 6 mana to your pool from dark rit, then second tutor resolves and you grab dark petition.. Dark petition, leaving you with 7 mana and freshly cabal therapy and infernal tutor. Get two cabal therapies for 1 mana, leaving you at 6 mana. infernal tutor -> Dark rit -> dark pit again, grab lotus petal + past in flames, win.
Thought I think the most broken thing it does is kill your opponent through chalice on 1, resolved thalia, or with counterbalance out.
Been there; discussed it here; tested myself over a week; dismissed for being slow as fuck (which is a problem against Thalia/Chalice/Counterbalance/etc. in the first place). It does not get better once CB is resolved thanks to the 2cmc
If you want a storm deck which realistically beats all the turn 2 drops like MeddlingMage/Thalia/Canonis/Chalice/Counterbalance/Hymn/ActiveDRS/whatever, Dr_D gave you the answer.
Orherwise, just deal with that stuff via Sideboard
Kai,
I saw you play round 2 at GP Seattle and really liked your card edition choices and alters. Have you ever posted your deck in the pimp thread? Those altered and signed Alpha basics are so neat.
How'd you do overall in the tournament?
So he is frustrated because his opponents basicly kill him on turn 2? Guess how he makes hís opponents feel all the time by playing storm..
On a more serious note, Chalice on 1 or 0 is actually not that hard to beat and Counterbalance is also not that hard to play around. It's when your opponents also have a clock or in counterbalance's case a Top, cantrip or counterspell it becomes pretty hard. Storm still has options to go off turn 1 or 2 or cast a discard spell and the opponent has to draw that hatepermanent.
And even if that permanent resolves you can still win; sunday I won through Double balance and 4 land in play (one of them was a fetch), a snapcaster mage on top, 3 Force of Will and a spell snare in hand. I didnt even cast an abrupt decay, just went for natural in hand tendrils with some mindgames to make him use his fetch and shuffle away the snapcaster.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcz_kDCBTBk
^Agree.
Way back before mystical tutor got banned, I beat Makihito Mihara with his board containing Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Sensei and Counterbalance but no creature in play. I just continue playing until I drew Tendril's. Fortunately I have enough mana to just cast spells, let it get countered just to have a storm count and tendril's him ftw. After playing Omnitell and Animator for 2 years, now I'm re-learning to play Ad Naus (I stop playing ANT after Mystical got banned).
I wrote a report, it's online now: https://theweeklywars.wordpress.com/...5-at-gpseatac/
Any of you slinging some spells at Grand Prix Brussels this weekend?
Thanks for linking that! Great to see some reporting that's a lot more reliable than I've managed (I keep forgetting to bring note-taking materials, and everything fuzzes up really quickly for me).
At the risk of retreading something Ad Nauseam (huehuehue), I'm wondering how you felt the double Past in Flames performed for you. The reason I ask is that last Sunday I played against Pox and got pretty thoroughly crushed. Surgical Extraction made a few appearances, in one game wiping LEDs, Dark Rituals, and Cabal Rituals. Not my finest hour. I'm not prepared to chalk it up to my general incompetence (though that's doubtless a factor in my subpar performance with the deck) because, especially against heavy discard, I feel like mulliganing more than once is pretty much asking to fold. Let me know what you think!
Most decks have insufficient graveyard hate before sideboarding, so multiple copies of Past in Flames are great. They are generally lower on relevant cards, which means you get away with being slightly slower and more resilient.
Thanks, I fixed that now for both rounds against Death & Taxes.
1 Swamp
1 Volcanic Island
2 Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
1 Dark Petition
2 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
3 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Ponder
SB: 2 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Tropical Island
SB: 2 Chain of Vapor
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Disfigure
SB: 1 Rebuild
SB: 2 Dread of Night
SB: 2 Xantid Swarm
The list I've been running for a few months now and wanted to see others opinions on my sideboard strategy against blue based decks that also have Deathrite. My plan has been:
-2 Preordain
-1 Infernal Tutor
-1 Cabal Ritual
-3 Duress
+ 1 Tropical
+2 Swarm
+2 Chain
+2 Disfigure
The games always seem close but not sure this is the best configuration to go with.
Anybody notice the 4 Monastery Mentor and 1 Tundra in the side board of the top 32 ANT list at the GP?