I have read the two posts above this one, I will post my sb and give my impressions in 2hrs when I'll be back at home. Now I'm at work, and typing a longer post on the phone is awful
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I have read the two posts above this one, I will post my sb and give my impressions in 2hrs when I'll be back at home. Now I'm at work, and typing a longer post on the phone is awful
My current SB is in my sig, but if DRS would be main i'd run;
2 Carpet
3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical
2 G. Charm
1 Peedle
2 Cannonist
1 Teeg
1 QPM
1 Garruk, R
sb
2 ts
2 needle
2 cannonist
1 e. plague
1 grip
1 decay
1 teeg
1 militant
1 garruk ph
3 flex
just moved the 2 slaughter games md over the 2 painful truths to see if i could make up some ground in poor matchups while maintaining positive fair matchups.
plusing garruk to apply serious pressure is underrated.
Of course every sideboard reflects the metagame in which we play, so keep in mind that I play online and thus I want to be prepared against Miracles, Shardless and Storm.
-Sb cards that are a must and I'm always playing in the board (12)-
2 canonist
2 surgical
3 duress (there should be some number of thoughtseizes here, but I play duress because of budget reasons)
1 grip
1 teeg
2 slaughter games (I hate to play a taiga only for this card, but it is a necessary evil against terminus and/or JTMS)
1 planeswalker - I keep changing between Elspeth KE and Garruk PH, both have been great. I haven't figured out whether I should play 2 pws or not.
-Sb cards that "come and go" and I have yet to decide if they are here to stay or not-
a. deluge (awesome card, but do I even need it? We are supposed to be good already against delvers, and against goys deeds are better. Good against elves, d&t which is rare online, and delver)
b. giant solifuge - ok this is getting ridiculous. This card is ONLY for miracles (JTMS) and represents a surprise factor against opponents that think that a JTMS on an empty board is 100% safe. Still testing but he has done its job decently so far; but I hate that outside the miracles mu this is basically a wasted sb slot.
c. 1 other planeswalker - Read above
d. baneslayer angel - against shardless, but the fact that it dies to Liliana makes me think that Sigarda n. 2 is probably better.
e. thrun - Pretty much only for miracles, it does nothing when he lands on the ground, and this is the reason I'm testing solifuge over thrun at the moment.
At the moment I'm adding to the former 12 cards: BSA, Deluge and Giant Solifuge.
Notable exclusions:
Needle: good and versatile card but it is useless against storm and Shardless (needle gets ALWAYS decayed in the grindy long games where they lands planeswalkers. And needle would be needed here exactly to combat the walkers). Against miracles, unless we have it in the opener, it's going to get counterbalance'd (feelsbadman) and its a huge nonbo with deed (a card that i wanna land on the field asap because it answers every non JTMS threat they land).
Tsunami/choke: I love the effect but ultimately I have found that playing a creature or a PW is just better to close games.
QPM: why would I run this guy when I play 4 decays and 3 deeds in the main and a grip in the side?
Carpet: this card has been very good in the past, but it's not THAT great against miracles and shardless so I'd rather play cards that are good in these mus.
Up until now we've accumulated the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncletiggy
Looking at these sideboards it seems there's quite some overlap. As far as mine concerns, it needs 2 Canonists. Seemingly the SB core looks somewhat like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
2/3 Duress/Thoughtseize
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Ethersworn Canonist
Furthermore, Pithing Needle, Krosan Grip and Surgical Extraction seem to be considered solid choices.
Ricardio are you currently playing this configuration?
3 duress
2 surgical
2 ethersworn
1 teeg
1 thragtusk
1 garruk relentless
1 needle
1 ajani mentor
2 carpet
1 thalia
Here's my generally locked in pieces that have earned their spot:
2 Needle
1 Teeg
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Thoughtseize
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Big impact spells for midrange / control (Tsunami, PW etc)
2 Graveyard hate
2 Flexy depending on what I want to fight
Currently looks like this:
2 Needle
1 Dryad Militant
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Rec Sage
2 Surgical Extraction
4 Thoughtsieze
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Garruk PH
1 Ob Nix, Reignited
My SB skews towards anti-blue. This past month I dealt with combo, so I made proper adjustments. This is my current default:
2 carpet
2 choke
1 Teeg #2
2 slaughter
2 surgical
4 anti-combo pkg (TS, Canonist, Thalia)
2 flex (currently Toxic, QPM, Garruk Relentless)
*playing 3 surgicals was great. Some matchups it really makes a difference. I also strongly consider Krosan Grip, Leyline of Sanctity (if burn and storm and whatnot are a big % of the room), and Pithing Needle. Again, a SB should reflect your meta -- not what the Internet tells you.
Last weekend also taught me a lot about my playstyle and tendencies with the deck. I will be tuning my list accordingly.
So 2/3 discard & a Gaddock Teeg as solid core it is.
Usually complemented by 2 Ethersworn Canonist & 2 Surgical Extraction.
Other often seen cards:
1/2 Pithing Needle
1/2 sweepers (Golgari Charm and/or Toxic Deluge)
1 random planeswalker
I agree on a SB needing to fit your personal meta, but it's nice to see what other people run to improve certain MUs. It's shown me that I really need a couple of Canonists and that I need to stop bitching about GSZ when wanting to run a creature in my SB.
When looking at what other people run, the overlapping part entirely applies to the same MUs I'm having trouble with. It's funny to see that even though we don't discuss it much, there is a certain set of cards we all seem to consider as the best means to improve those MUs.
I cut the Ajani for toxic deluge.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
the core for me is:
3 duress
2 surgical
2 canonist
1 teeg
2 carpet
so basically 5 flex slots.
I've been trying without slaughter games and I think I may go back to 2/3 in the sb bc I fkn hate miracles.
What I'm wondering though... How do the Junk pilots reliably find R for Slaughter Games? GSZ, DRS & Carpets seem a bit unreliable.
Do people also run a Taiga in the SB..?
Everyone runs a taiga and about 2 drs as sources for the red. I have never had an issue getting red to cast it. the matchups you are bringin it in, they don't play wasteland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Why cut Ajani? Because md nissa fills his void?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
Nice to see that sb deluge is a thing.
4cmc garruk seems worse than elspeth
Missing on draw with him makes me sad. there are better options.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
Deluge is a pseudo-4th deed. unstiflable.
G compared to WW is huge. pumping out 2/2s and possible removal is great. Plus if he flips, you can tutor up rhinos.
WW is ok against deck that do no play wasteland. And she makes the damn thing fly like a unicornQuote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
if it flies, its a horned Pegasus, not a unicorn. damn it, man, get the naming right!Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
Ya, Im just referring to vet explorer triggers. I much more a fan of garruk because he has 5 abilities and Elspeth only has 2(her ult isn't gonna happen)
//sb
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Thoughtseize
3 Slaughter Games
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Golgari Charm
1 Tsunami
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Engineered Plague
1 Krosan Grip
//sb
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Thoughtseize
2 Slaughter Games
1 Nether Void
1 Golgari Charm
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Krosan Grip
sb::
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Thoughtseize
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Krosan Grip
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
sb::
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Thoughtseize
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Carpet of Flowers
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Krosan Grip
2 Baneslayer Angel
Note that the sideboard with 2 SFM/Jitte also had a maindeck Batterskull, not maindeck SFM though.
Here's four different white sideboards that I've run at various points. #4 on the list was for a Thune version. Shardless actually can't really beat Baneslayer -- a good way to beat Shardless in general is to take to the skies with large lifelinking things. Thune can be awkward vs them at times because it trades with Baleful Strix, whereas Baneslayer just eats it. Note that Shardless was especially enormous at the point in time when this sideboard was made. The Baneslayers also gave me extra "can't beat this" to Carpet into vs Delver.
Otherwise, there's a fair bit of overlap in my sideboards. And as Ricardio said, 2 DRS + Taiga maindeck is fine to support Slaughters. Slaughters are for non-wasteland matchups, so it doesn't really matter, and I've never had the Taiga hurt me in g1 scenarios. In fact, sometimes it's a lightning rod for Wasteland, which I'm perfectly fine with since it's a nonbasic Forest vs Wasteland matchups. Wasteland players look at a pile of Bayou/Savannahs/Forest/Plains/Swamps and are like, oh, he only has one red source, so we'll hit that! Thanks guy.
I've literally never had a problem with double white, for those worried about that. You run 2x Plains, 2x Savannah, 1x Scrubland, and sometimes a Karakas. That's plenty of white sources.
One note about this: Elspeth is much, much better than Garruk is at killing planeswalkers. Garruk R is certainly a fine gentleman...I'm quite fond of running him, especially alongside Master of the Wild Hunt, but Elspeth has her place, as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
my 4 spot is already full maindeck with rhino and meren so no master sadly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
ALSO: thune is 23 tix and dollars. wut dafuq
Modern. There's a Chord variant that's been playing her, I believe. When Pod was around, they only needed 1 copy so it kept her price pretty well in check. Now that they need 4, it's been kind of stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
I was looking forward to trying it with spike feeder as a kind of cute thing to do but not for 23 tix. hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
That has got me stuck with a lot of cards. Everytime i look thru my cards i am like: "cool, i should build something with that". Ranging from cheap cards to complete decks such as Goblins and Tezzerator.... yes including The Abyss and Chains of Mephistopholes...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
And everytime i am considering what deck to play for the win i end up with a headache and am losing hard. Still i love this game.
Cardboard crack, man.
Play to win while having fun.
Haha, yes, that happens when i am not focussing on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Potential modern refugee here. Karakas is one of the few cards I'm missing for the rhino version of this deck. Seems to me like the main reason for inclusion is randomly stopping/slowing early FSM and big nasty lifelinking demon shenanigans while being essentially a basic plains, albeit an unfetchable one. With the added bonus of possibly protecting your Teeg or Sigarda. Am I missing anything obvious here?
So why do you say "sometimes a karakas"? Are there times/metas where it is not worth running? Or is it a budget decision?
Eot bounce Teeg, play GSZ and play Teeg again. Yes, the Karakas is random, Knight of the Reliquary is a card to. Combined with Dryad Arbor and Meren of Clan Nel Toth you can do some pretty decend tricks while also making most of the utility. And running a songleton while random beats not running one at all. Karakas randomly wins you games vs SnT and Reanimator.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rackhamm
Karakas can be very good. I play it online because its considerable cheaper than irl. I would say depending on the meta, you don't have to worries but then again I am sure there are times where having 2 would be absolutely necessary(flash back to when SNS was the deck)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rackhamm
Welcome to Legacy but more importantly welcome to the most creative deck in the format. Play to win while enjoying yourself and making the deck to not only suit your meta needs but the creative lifestyle you choose that drives the mentality you view the world through.
Cheers m8
I dont run a Karakas because I dont want to pull it out of my binder. Nuff said. Card is good, but not necessary. I play the Taiga in its place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rackhamm
agreed on karakas not being a necesity we have acess to so many utility lands it is in direct competition with basic plains or forest #3. Its too random to quantify its value without playing hard tutors like intent or knight(and hes not that good here). i'd play the first arbor second tower and first stronghold before a karakas right now but im on four color for maindeck slaughter games.
That is the beauty of this deck.
“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
― Friedrich Nietzsche
"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken." -Colonel Sanders
Some interesting page on SCG regarding playing against Eldrazi in Modern, but since that deck is gaining momentum in Legacy too, I thought I'd pass on the knowledge of Obstinate Baloth's interaction with Reality Smasher.
By the way, here's my sideboard, followed by my deck. Let me know what you guys think, I'm still noobish with Nic Fit.
Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle
1 Dryad Militant
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Shriekmaw
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Xantid Swarm
1 Worship
1 Golgari Charm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Slaughter Games
3 Thoughtseize
Maindeck
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Obstinate Baloth
3 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Path to Exile
1 Skeletal Scrying
2 Painful Truths
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Taiga
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
Cheers guys, I really like all the fun and discussion here, really lively thread. Thanks!
the new eldrazi deck is even more cancerous. Wotc is ever pushing me away.
I'm looking forward to going head to head with the new Eldrazi deck. We're one of the few decks that can answer whatever they throw at us. It'll probably boil down to "Survive, stabilize, destroy".
On Karakas: I don't run one. Simply b/c I don't have any room for it. Same goes for the Taiga, unfortunately. If I were to run a Taiga, I'd have to drop my second Phyrexian Tower. Or Dryad Arbor. Neither of which is going to happen.
deed @2 or deluge for 5 puts us way up on card advantage vs them. its a far easier match then mud or turbo eldrazi hopefully it draws some of their players in. it does however limit ones ability to play punishing fit. its junk or bust right now. I cant speak for scapeshift or bug.
Looks alright, Obstinate Baloth might be random for it to do what you say. But so is the singleton Karakas which i am sticking to.Quote:
Originally Posted by TTX
Sideboard has some odd choices.
Xantid Swarm is a GSZ target, but do you ever think to push something thru that way? Match-up against (non-combo)blue decks are favorable anyway.
Shriekmaw and Cannonist are also a bit on the random. Probably would just run 2 cannonist instead. Only 1 Charm? Here i also always fit in 2 sweepers. Charm is currently my choice because of Elves and Grixis.
And Worship, people seem to play it against Eldrazi in modern. But also a bit random. Never tried it tho. Any specifics on this choice?
Heavy statement. Echelon is right, Junk has the right tools to fight it of. But it is a Mexican standoff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
This does make me cry.. a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by uncletiggy
It'll probably be a 50/50 MU, much like MUD. Sometimes that deck just goes T1 CotV @X=1, T2 Trinisphere, T3 Lodestone Golem, T4 Metalworker, T5 Ugin. I still enjoy seeing that though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
But yeah, if you enter a tournament it might be best to put Junk in the trunk. Or wherever you put your bag when you get into the car.
I keep my deck taped to my chest incase i get carjacked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Went undefeated tonight at the local, beating Merfolk (2-1), then Shardless (2-0), then Maverick (2-1). We had to cut since it was late and we wanted to go home.
Truths was nuts, as always. Meren got active and was good, but not as explosive as Nightmare, but requires far less setup.
Overall, list felt good, but so did playing a bunch of good matchups, so not much of a test. :really:
I think there's nothing wrong with Jund Fit right now. I'll build mine up and take it for a spin next week to prove it.
Cheers.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Really like your so motivated with showing that Jund still has it, but the big (rhetorical) question is: what does jund bring that junk doesn't do (better)?