is sneak and show that bad?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
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is sneak and show that bad?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
What do you think about this:
//Main
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
4 Crop Rotation
3 Dark Depths
4 Exploration
1 Forest
4 Gamble
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Life from the Loam
1 Manabond
3 Maze of Ith
4 Mox Diamond
3 Punishing Fire
4 Rishadan Port
1 Seismic Assault
3 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
//Sideboard
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 4 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Seismic Assault
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 4 Tireless Tracker
- I cut Glacial Chasm since it's the card I side out the most. It's never that great (sure it can save you vs Infect, Merfolk or Elves but they're good matchups already) because it's almost only good when you're in a good position, aka Exploration + Loam going. And even then it's not necessary unless TNNs are beating you down and you haven't found the Depths combo.
- I like the package of 4 Waste 4 Port 2 GQ. That way, cou can cover both angles of mana denial really well, GQing to shuffle and lock out, Porting to help in the early stages of the game.
- Seismic Assault is for D&T mostly, but are nice in matchups like Elves,Jund,Miracles,Stoneforge.dec. I've tested both Assault and Vortex a lot, and Vortex just binds too much mana with the R: activations. Assault has won me games out of nowhere, even multiple times having all my Loams extracted. I just kept drawing lands or drawing more with Tracker to control the board and finish the game.
- Bojuka Bog main is for the Reanimator/combo meta.
- I could see getting in the 4th Dark Depths somewhere (maybe by cutting the 4th Port) or Tranquil Thicket in place of Canopy...not sure.
Seismic Assault is definitely the better card on the battlefield, but you have to compare CC's as well, as RRR vs R is a huge difference. By the time you have RRR for Assault, you could already activate vortex 3 times a turn, and have cast it T1. So I prefer this speed of Vortex, as it impacts the first turns where Assault does not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexeezay
Not really, but it could always use some improvement. However, it could be too cute. I was not thinking about SnS, but flying blockers in general, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by snorlaxcom
Hello everyone :)
I've just finished reading the whole primer (and all posts written here, over two weeks of highly entertaining lecture :wink: ). I have to thank you all for discussing ideas, updating your results and lists, reporting games etc. That's priceless source of knowledge for a pure Lands-beginner such as myself :)
Yet, I have a question about specific card that has never been even mentioned here by anyone, what is quite suprising for me, as I fell in love with it from the first sight. The card I'm talking about is Petrified Field
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Ca...iverseid=30014
If I am no wrong, this allows us to make a couple of really handy tricks, like:
- returning land that has been destroyed / discarded to Mox / discarded to Gamble / sacrificed to Crop Rotation / sacrificed as a combo piece that was somehow disrupted (Stiffle, Swords etc.)
- increase the possibility of saving a card tutored from Gamble
- makes opponent's sandbagged Wasteland a little bit less potent
- saves valuable land from Extraction, or Leyline if Loam is not an option (opponen's turn, Extracion in response etc.)
- return already used Tranquil to instantly use it agian, igniting Loam (single or multiples) another time
- sac Glacial Chasm without required 2 Thespian's and mana, when we can't afford to pay for 3rd or 4th upkeep
- using it instead of Loam when it's absent or jammed (Chalice, Countertop, Prelate)
- gives us another way out from DRS, when we need to cast Loam, but are jammed by DRS's response
- more mana denial with Exploration and single Wasteland / Ghost Quarter
Considering all this and a little bit more (entering untapped, producing mana on it's own - colourless, yet still usefull), i think it can be used as 61 card / instead of second Tranquil / 3rd Maze / 4th fetch / Karakas that does not fit specific meta etc.
Or... Maybe I am wrong indeed and this is so crappy, horrendously stupid idea that nobody had ever wanted to mention it in the first place? :smile:
Edit:
Aaaand latest news from Aehter Revolt:
http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/h...ervention.html
Finnaly, uncounterable (with Boseju) answer to Swords or some blinks into Marit? :)
Hi Wiktul, welcome to Lands, and reading 175 pages of comments is quite something!Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiktul
About Petrified Field, I actually don't think it is very good.
A big reason is that the card goes to your hand instead of the battlefield, so using it sets you back a landdrop.
Also, ideally you would croprotate for such a one-off card and if it's to get a specific land back from the yard, why not rotate directly for this specific landcard? It's biggest asset seems to me saving a land from extraction through croprotation, just like a canopy could save loam. It seems like a weaker loam-effect, and although you can rotate for it, I'd rather spend a 61'st card on a Crucible of Worlds or Sylvan Library for loamlike effects.
I also don't think the new card 'Heroic intervention' will see play either.
There is a similar card in not of this world, and it doesn't see play in Lands as there's loam to repeatedly replay the combo instead of protecting it (NOTW does sees play in Turbo Depths though, and perhaps Heroic Intervention will too as it protects pre-combo lands as well).
New ideas are interesting to discuss though, so don't let my negating comment prevent you from suggesting and asking something else!
Petrified Field is not a card I like. I like the idea, and that is why I would run a Crucible in the side, but Fields is just too slow. Its not that the idea is not sound, but the question is always, "What are you cutting to add this". I do not think anything is weaker than Field and I would be hard pressed cutting something for it.
Doesn't look like we're getting any game changing cards in this new set. (like vortex or tracker) BUT
http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/unbridledgrowth.html
I kinda love this. Throw it on a dark depths, ultimate value.
But i know it's not realistic as I can't picture what slot it replaces or if it's better that the other options to get these effects (riftstone portal/urborg or cycle lands)
Moreover, Abundant Growth is strictly better.
Unbridled Growth at least provides some protection for your Loams against Surgical though I guess?Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte
Good luck to the other GP Louisville attendees, see you in the top 8
i didnt even know that was a card. well then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte
I disagree. At least you can sac Unbridled Growth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte
Good luck indeed! Too bad there's no coverage :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by U_mage
Sorry Chatto, maybe I'm not getting your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
http://mythicspoiler.com/aer/cards/unbridledgrowth.jpg http://mythicspoiler.com/ema/cards/abundantgrowth.jpg
The new Growth is a nerfed Abundant Growth: it is basically the same card except that you have to sacrifice it to draw a card, while the original one cantrips on EtB, leaving the aura in play. Am I missing something?
The cantrip is nice indeed, but the ability to sac and draw a card, to me, is better. Imagine your Loam being targeted, and saving it by this sac-effect.
Thanks for the clarification, makes perfectly sense. It's a while I'm not playing Lands, I'm a little rusty
Got my first day 2 with lands at 6-3
No worries, you're welcome :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte
Congrats! Hope you will make a report.Quote:
Originally Posted by U_mage
I've been playing small local event (10 players). Last time was my first time with this deck (0-5) and I was kinda like "I have no idea WTF I'm doing". This time things went a little bit differently.
Land (35)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Boseiju, Who Shelters All
3x Dark Depths
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Grove of the Burnwillows
2x Maze of Ith
1x Petrified Field
1x Riftstone Portal
4x Rishadan Port
2x Taiga
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4x Thespian's Stage
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
2x Wooded Foothills
Sorcery (9)
4x Gamble
4x Life from the Loam
1x Sylvan Scrying
Instant (8)
4x Crop Rotation
4x Punishing Fire
Enchantment (5)
4x Exploration
1x Manabond
Artifact (4)
4x Mox Diamond
Sideboard (15)
1x Akroma, Angel of Fury
2x Chalice of the Void
3x Krosan Grip
1x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Pithing Needle
1x Primeval Titan
2x Sphere of Resistance
2x Volcanic Fallout
2x Warping Wail
Round 1: Merfolks
G1 - I started with solid hand: Mox, Stage, Loam, Gamble, fetch, Port and a forest or some other land. He started with Vial and Curse Catcher. Not much to report, I made Marit turn 4, he responded with Phantasmal Image from Vial :frown: I couldn't get P-fire to target it and he would overrun me anyway.
G2 - My Chalice on 1 slows him down a little bit, but I couldn't get the combo from Loam (despite having 3 Stages in play or hand). He keeps hitting me with Mishra and other fish, I keep defending myself with single Maze and Loaming with Boseju (he has hand full of counterspells, he discards merfolks at his end step while I'm holding him a little bit lower with Port). I couldn't get single Exploration needed, so I could loop Chasm Lock, and I had to exchange Glacial for Stage or another of two Stages, looping it with Loam from Boseju. Eventually, after 10 or more loooong turns, I manage to make single Marit that meets Echoing Truth. No more Depths, nor Gamble or Rotation and I die anyway with his creatures unable to attack.
Round 2: 4c delver
G1 - I have fast hand with combo, exploration and mox. He dies turn 4, nothing more to say.
G2 - He starts with Tropical and DRS, seems a little bit more comfortable. I start with Wasteland - Mox (fetch) - exploration - Tabernacle, Waste his Tropical, go. He desperately tries to save his shaman, tapping him for his Tropical eventually playing cantrips from additional lands, that are wasted just after that. That's how it goes for next 3-4 turns, when I have token and more Ports in play than he has permanents.
Round 3: Death&Taxes
G1 - I'm playing against a friend of mine, so I know his build and his style. I start with good hand: Mox, exploration, P-fire, fetch, Loam, maze, grove. He starts with Vial, Mother of Runes eot (burned with PFire). I start Loaming aaaand.... Can't get even single land with 4 dredges :cry: Odds are not in my favour, I eventually get second Maze (after 5th dredge), but it's not enough. He has 3 creatures, double waste and port, so I don't want to waste more time.
G2 - Quite like before, I start to punish his creatures, he plays more carefully. I play Petrified Field, and Nissa, Vital Force, untaping and waiting. He plays RiP, I exchange Field for Depths in responce, go for Marit and 5/5 lands in case of Swords. Not much more to play, but my friend plays so slow, that time starts to flow backwards. Eventually he gives up.
G3 - I have very fast and cruel control over his single Cavern and Vial on 3. I waited if he will put something nasty eot with Fire in hand, but he didn't so I Gripped it in his draw step. Still, I'm very short of time (few times I was blaming myself for playing slow with this deck, but his each single land drops for eternity :/ ), so I have to decide - Nissa turn 3 and struggle to kill him with single land creatures, or combo with RiP. I tried second option, Marit eats Path and while he has nothing to play, I have just 2 turns left with him at full life. Draw.
Round 4 - elves
G1 - Marit turn 3, he complains that I did it in my turn, while he can always bounce it with some creature of his or easily ramp for Emrakul. Somehow, he does not, so he dies.
G2 - My chalice on 1, Marit turn 2. Yet he starts to ramp zylions of mana and quadrilions of creatures. He plays Green Sun Zenith despite Chalice, gets something like 9 creatures, with DRS and Faerie Macabre. I P-fire Macabre, strike with Marit, he eats Macabre with DRS. I could have burned him if my single R-mana source wasn't Grove and he will trample me with next turn
G3 - With this in mind, I'm going to be very mean this time. Mox, Exploration, Wasteland, Gamble for Tabernacle, Loam in hand. Go ahead, try to ramp this time. He tries to hit me with Relic of Progenitus, but I get what I need with Petrified Field. He gives up 2 turns later.
Round 5 - BUG delver
There were many draws and hard match-ups around (2x Miracle, Painter, D&T, 3x Delver), so if I would win this one, I would be first with 3-1-1.
G1 - I didn't know what he's playing, so I kept a hand with Mox, Exploration, Gamble, P-fire, Port, fetch and other land. Played acceleration, gamble for Loam to have everything in place, dropped Pfire. He plays Sea and DRS. I curse myself for carelessness and try to get another Fire instead of eaten-one. I did, but then I was facing Nemezis x2 and couldn't get anything solid.
G2 - Pfire on his DRS turn 1, then Sphere, wastelock with Loam from Boseju. The only thing he can do is to Surgical me - and that he does. P-Fire gets surgicaled first, Loam - second. Still, I'm to far ahead and too aware of such possibility, so I kill him without a single hit taken, getting myself at 10 with boseju and good compilation of dredge and draw. Marit for the kill.
G3 - I mulligan first hand with some sideboard cards with no color mana, I keep 6 with Exploration, Wasteland, Ghost Quarter, P-fire, Grove and Loam. We both get nothing for long, long time, not to mention single battle over his DRS, that I eventually win, but nothing special goes for it (I've only eaten my own graveyard with Bojuka). He counters my Loam 5 times in a row, I can't get Boseju, Rotation nor Gamble, nor combo. He plays carefully around my wastelands, keeping fetches at board when they aren't needed. I'm not panicking though, with Krosan in hand at his Needle naming Stage and Volcanic Fallout waiting for his DRS or Delver, but he gets Angler and I don't have Maze. The game went so long and dull, that in the end he countered my Loam twice with FoW for mana, and the big ugly fish eats me finally.
All in all, I finished at 4th place. I'm really happy with this result, especially after two weeks of reading everything you guys discussed here and training with the deck each single day since my first, unremarkable performance. I wish I could play against miracles, because I have some good hate-board plan against them, but not today. I tried really hard to avoid Painter and I did (I couldn't loose to D&T and I didn't). The best ideas of my home-made alterations to deck were definitely Petrfied Field and Nissa, Vital Force. I will exchange 2x Volcanic Fallout for 2x Trieless Tracker, I can't kill Nemezis with them anyway, so I think I have to simply kill all delvers faster than they can put Nemezis into play and deal with fact, that we can't deal with Nemezis in play.
Thanks for the report and congrats on a good run with some interesting SB technology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiktul
I thought I'd point our that merfolk is a MU where we don't want to bring in chalice OTV. They very frequently play 4 maindecked copies of their own, and the only 1 CMC spell in the deck is cursecatcher. In contrast, we like out 1 CMC spells quite a bit. Even if you had found a gamble, exploration, or crop rotation while hiding under chasm your own chalice would have countered it.
Yeah, that's true for sure, things I had in mind choosing this card from sideboard were: Vial first, Needle on Stage second. After Game 1 I was sure he would counter Cropp or Gamble anyway and I could Grip my own Chalice anytime (what I did in the end, so I could play Gamble... that was countered immediately :) ), but I'd rather play differently next time. All in all, I feel I should win this one, but I was facing a player who plays merfolks since they emerged as competitive deck, so I can try to excuse myself to myself :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dingo
Aether Vial, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dingo
EDIT: Whoops, mentioned already above. Sorry!
Hi Guys,
I'm going to play a tournament here in Brazil, on January 27th and 28th.
Me and my friend Bruno (Orelha) are working on the following list:
Maindeck
4 life from the loam
4 gamble
4 crop rotation
4 punhishing fire
4 mox diamond
4 exploration
1 moltrn vortex
4 wasteland
4 grove of the burnwillows
4 thespian's stage
3 ghost quarter
3 maze of ith
3 dark depths
2 rishadan port
2 taiga
1 horizon canopy
1 glacial chasm
1 karakas
1 bojuka bog
1 barbarian ring
1 tabernacle at pendrell vale
1 rifstone portal
1 forest
1 mistyrain forest
1 windswept heath
1 wooded foothills
Sideboard
4 tireless tracker
4 krosan grip
4 sphere of resistance
1 trinisphere
1 pithing needle
1 boseiju, who shelters all
What do you think about this list?
Jody Keith placed 9th at GP Louisville out of more than 1600 people, just missing out on the top 8.
And went undefeated on day one.
I copied his decklist here as it has some interesting cardchoices such as the maindeck ancient tomb.
EDIT: and it lacks Boseiju.
Sorcery (8)
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
Instant (6)
4 Crop Rotation
2 Punishing Fire
Artifact (4)
4 Mox Diamond
Enchantment (6)
1 Molten Vortex
4 Exploration
1 Manabond
Land (36)
1 Barbarian Ring
4 Dark Depths
1 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Taiga
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Karakas
4 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Bojuka Bog
Sideboard (15)
1 Molten Vortex
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Kozilek's Return
4 Chalice of the Void
I am Jody Keith, I don't plan on writing a tourney report but you can ask me anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingo
How useful was the Tomb? Do you feel 4 Depths was right? Would you change anything if you could play the event again?
First of all: congrats! And for my questions: how did your Burn-package feel like? Did it perform as anticipated? And Manabond: still worth it, or more like 'nope'?
The Tomb was not that useful this go round. I talked Tom Ross into playing it at the SCGPC and up until this event I have always sworn by it. Honestly it's best with the post-board cards. Once it came up vs. a bug delver deck day one. He forced my exploration so turn 2 I played a stage on my second turn. He played a wasteland and a goyf. I endstep rotated the forest into a tomb, which he couldn't daze, I untap depths activate. I might have been able to win with a Maze there, bating the wasteland and rotating in response, but it was a thing that I did. Honestly I played 2 miracles and 3 omni/sneak. Beat wescoe in day 2 and drew with bbd round 10. I would want the sphere's over the chalices in the sb or some combination of the two, but settled on full chalices because I feel they are better with the trackers vs. miracles, and wanted to make up for not playing the boseiju. In hindsight I'll never give up on the spheres and still won't play the boseiju unless I plan on combining it with boil out of the board, which I think is overkill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
I usually trim down on the burn like 3 pfires at the last 2 legacy gps. This go round I decided to play the one vortex over one, and the barb ring to supplement vs. Prelate. out the board I wanted 2 more answers to prelate, so I went with kreturn which could also be good vs. elves/goblins/pyromancer/deathrite and the second molten vortex. Because of this I cut a grove for a third taiga, thus making my fetches better, and my trackers better. I also wanted the second vortex to play as a win-con vs. blood moon In combination with tracker. The manabond is great for most game ones. it's great in the mirror which I didn't play and I would never play less then one of these. In actuality I was going to play 2 but last minute moved the bog to the main over it to free up room for the 4th tracker. This is also the first tournament I've played with the GQs over the Ports and I was really impressed. Even vs. miracles I took them off white before making the 20/20. BBD was smart to not fetch his other one. I feel in an open format you should come with the most combo ready versions game one. and board into more reaction game 2. I've been playing Lands since the days of old, and I love grinding people out, but pushing more toward combo helped with many matches day one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
Congrats with your result, Jody.Quote:
Originally Posted by nola_gold
How did you fare against the 3 omni/sneak decks, and how good was Karakas against them? I ask because I assume you really like the card in the main, even over Bog (you wrote you cut a manabond for maindecking the Bog), and because it seems a tad worse now due to Omniscience being played in Sneakshow.
You are playing 11 green lands, did you ever feel this was too tight?
I beat one round 3, but lost to a SNS in the 13th round then omnishow in the 14th. If they play omni it's pretty terrible. sometimes they just put a creature in if you are pressuring their mana enough. Good players will wait for an sns or grislebrand, but in legacy anything could happen. Honestly I like karakas more vs. reanimator, dnt, and the mirror, also leovald is a thing now. This is the first time I've md the bog in 4 legacy gps with lands and I won't do it again idt. The sns match against an average player is easier if you are playing the ports and you annoy them into show and telling early for an emrakul and you have the karakas or a rotation/gamble to get it, but that's only vs. players that don't know the matchup. The one omnishow I beat I had turn two 20/20 twice, which leads me to believe that you want the manabond. I'm also thinking about a seagate wreckage list with multiple manabonds, but I'll have to test it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingo
Can you elaborate on this comment? They still draw a card if you bounce Leovold - Do you mean bounce him then waste / port / GQ and let them have as many cards in their hand and just never let them cast anything?Quote:
Originally Posted by nola_gold
I would guess so. That's what I've done so far. With Lands, your opponent's card advantage won't matter all the time. The board advantage and mana denial outdo the card draw. I mean they pay BUG for leovold & if you deny lands and handle deathrite (or they don't have it) while bouncing Leovold, it's a huge tempo loss for them. They don't have infinite lands either :) All in all, Leovold decks should be good matchups.
Leovold himself isnt the problem. It's the combination of deathrite shaman and true name nemesis.
I've decided to go back to the black splash and Collective Brutality is doing wonders so far. Have 2 in the board right now, was even able to use all 3 modes vs burn at one point.
That's interesting, I know the card from experimenting with BR Reanimator (btw, all bad matchups for Lands seem good for Reanimator, and vice verca. Feels great to consistently win over S&T, especially if they expect you to play Lands :smile: ) . But in which role does Collective Brutality fit for you in Lands? Wouldn't you prefer the lower cost of Thoughtseize against combo? And do you need it against creaturedecks besides Pfire/Vortex/decay?Quote:
Originally Posted by djxstream
My board includes 4 thoughtseizes as well. Collective Brutality fills 2 roles. creature removal and discard in one card and can do both at once. The more outs i have to handle an early DRS the better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingo
Warping wail filled a similar role, but is more restrictive i feel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djxstream
I like the idea of brutality. What is your complete list?
The 60 is the exact same David Long ran at SCG Baltimore a few months ago. https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/506335#onlineQuote:
Originally Posted by pbrod88
Board is nearly the same with swapping 2 spheres for 2 collective brutality and swapping Kozilek's Return for a Toxic Deluge...too many TNNs running around.
Last night I thought about some sideboard slots and came across the good old Shard Phoenix.
I think it's fine against D&T. Sure it's slower against Elves or Infect than Kozilek's Return for example, but I think it could be fine against Miracles as well. It can either pressure them alongside Tireless Tracker or take out Mentor!
It's recursive so you can dredge into it without trouble.
I think 1 phoenix next to P-Fire & 1 Vortex/Assault won't hurt.
The Phoenix! I remember playing the card in a really slow control deck. Interesting. Perhaps it's really too slow? Seven mana is a lot, even for RGCL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexeezay