good finish lion, how have the canopies been testing for you? i have been thinking of them and they are soso from my testing. Are the KOTRs earning their spots? as well with FODs?
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good finish lion, how have the canopies been testing for you? i have been thinking of them and they are soso from my testing. Are the KOTRs earning their spots? as well with FODs?
I think figure shouldn't be run too much, but I was playing 1 of him over the 4th kird ape recently, and found it to be very strong. It gives you even more guys with oomph, but doesn't really slow you down much at all. I definitely wouldn't go back to all kird apes, but also I wouldn't go to 4 figures either.
Grats, lion! What mox was up for first place, btw? Not that a playset of Underground Seas is anything to turn away.
Could you elaborate as to how a singleton Vines of Vastwood got in the maindeck? I can assume its value, but I'd rather know why.
ill just address the question about the mox since i was there too. (im the brother who scooped to lion in the quarters) it was a mox pearl. apparently it was only worth about $280 and since i think seas are worth at least $50 a piece i'd say we got the better end in some ways of that deal. at least as far as usefulness goes.
So a bye, an ID, a concession, three tier two decks and a match win over Landstill earns you 4x Underground Sea. Who knew?
Congratulations! As an aside, if given the choice, I would obviously take the Mox over the duals. A "poor" condition Pearl is still $300 on eBay.
Yeah i'd take the mox if I could use the money, but the playset of Seas is way more useful.
Congrats on the finish! Eva Green is a miserable matchup in my opinion, so more power to ya! I wish the big tournaments we place would get posted or count somewhere. I see Legacy tournaments in Europe with 12 people make it to DeckCheck. So annoying..
I figure I would post my weekend results as well, for the advancement of the deck and such. I am new to legacy, just got back into Magic after a 7 year hiatus. I always loved beating people with creatures and lightning bolt, so Zoo felt like the natural fit if I was going to get serious and enjoy tournament Magic. I picked up the deck in August, and I do say, I am amazed at how well this deck performs. It is so resilient against so many other decks it is ridiculous. I'm still not that good at Magic, learning the meta and the correct way to play the game (versus kitchen table magic), but I have had great results despite making mistakes along the way. I am really surprised more people don't play this deck at my local shop. We have a monthly that draws about 50 people and there is usually only 3-4 Zoo decks. Anyway. Tournament report. I'll take notes at the next one to give a better account.
Round 1 Aggro Loam
G1 First turn country side crusher, I mulligan, I'm dead on turn 4.
G2 Nacatl, goyf, burn finish on turn 5
G3 I had anwsers to all his creatures and beat in with goyf, ape
1-0
2-1
Round 2 Faerie Ninja Still
Really good match, trading blows left and right.
G1 I get him down to 1 life with lavamancer during a board stall, and I believe he topdecked a sower of temptation to steal it for the win.
G2 I was swinging with 3 Nacatls turn 3
G3 A really good game, he made a couple real nice plays, everytime I played a goyf he stole it. Toward the end, I topdecked 4 Arid Mesa's in a row. What are the odds of that?
1-1
3-3
Round 3 Tempo Bant
Another grudge match with lots of combat math
G1 Rhox War Monk keeps him in the game, burn to finish him.
G2 I scoop early, He denies me mana, plays goyf x2 and a war monk
G3 Things look good early but he gains board control, War monk gets him out of burn range. I topdecked like crap this game.
This pilot is really good at magic, I have previously seen him play tempo thresh to a top 4 in 50 man tournament, he piloted this to a top 4 here as well.
1-2
3-4
Round 4 Black UG countertop
G1 He gets stuck on one land and I win
G2 I topdeck enough creatures to overwhelm him before he finally gets CT online
2-2
5-4
Round 5 Merfolk
G1 Nacatl; Jitte; scoop
G2 Goyfs, Pridemages, Cats's and burn his creatures
3-2
7-4
Round 6 UBGW control concoction. Reminded me of Rock plus Force of will
G1 I win
G2 He wins
G3 He lays double Propaganda on me, Bob gets him down to 5 life, I think he vindicated his own bob, we both go into topdeck mode with the board in Goyf Stall, I draw the burn to finish him, He just drew more Bob's
4-2
9-5
In a 56 man tournament, I finished 9th. My tie breakers were great as Tempo bant and Aggro loam T8, and eventually both Top 4'd. The dude who got the eight seed went home cuz he didn't think he made it, So made into the Top8 woohooo
Top 8 Goblins #1 seed
G1 I survive his alpha strike with Lightning Helix and Go in for the kill with a host of creatures
G2 Price of progress'd me for the win, I didn't even see it coming, got me for 8 damage. I was still fetching duals cuz I hadn't seen a single Wastland from him in the first two games. Stupid
G3 I get Jitte attached to a 8/8 Reliquary, draw enough burn avoid taking the big damage, put him into topdeck mode and get the win.
Top 4 Zoo VS Temp Bant Aggro Loam vs Belcher
Belcher won their game, but we still decided to split prized at the top 4. I was happy to see two of my opponents in the top 4 in such a big tournament. Me and the goblins player split prizes, a a few duals.
My list
4x Kird Ape
4x Wild Nacatl
4x Goyf
4x Pridemage
3x Lavamancer
2x Reliquary
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
3x Chain Lightning
2x Sylvan Library
2x Jitte
11x Fetches
3x Taiga
2x PLateau
1x Savanah
3x Basic Land
3x Vexing Shusher
2x Choke
3x Tormods Crypt
2x STP
3x K Grip
2x Red Blasts
Notes: Lightning Helix won me the Goblins matchup. Drawing Jitte is never a bad thing. This is the first tournament I used KoTR over Wooly beast, and I'll never go back. I want to run one FoD main next tournament. Despite having a few misplays, this deck performed well.
Thanks everyone. I'll be writing the full tournament report tomorrow, so I'll go more in depth about stuff then, but just to answer the questions that have been posted...
I like Horizon Canopy a lot. This summer I ran 3, I went down to 1 some time this fall, but now I've bumped it back up to 2 and I feel like that's the right number for me right now. With 21 lands I don't find myself being worried about the fact that they don't count as forest/plains very often, and their utility is great enough that I like to have them in the deck. The flood protection is definitely worth it IMO.
FoD is a great threat, I like him as a 2-of and have for a while. He's lightyears beyond Kird Ape in terms of total power level, and he's an amazing beater when you play him right. Still though, drawing multiples really slows you down so the split between him and Ape feels right to me.
The singleton Vines made it in because it's actually a really great 1 of to have. If your opponent doesn't know your list, you can scare the shit out of them by t2 vinesing your nacatl with kicker after they try to swords it on your attack step, and for the rest of the match they try to play around vines even though you only have one. I didn't actually draw it all tournament oddly enough, but there were tons of points where I really wished I'd had it in hand.
Anyway, I gotta hit the sack, but I'll post my report tomorrow.
Guys, the Secret Santa thread can be done through the mail. And this isn't the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by santeria
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=15248
There you go :)
So looking at Figure of Destiny...It's a 2 mana 2/2, a 5 mana 4/4 flier, and a 10 mana OMG WTF. I guess he can be split over a few turns, but to me, it just seems like a bad Watchwolf early on, an expensive evading Woolly Thoctar midgame, and a huge investment "OMG Don't STP this!" finisher late game.
So why not just run Knight or Thoctar? Thoctar is a static fatty, and Knight can be invested in to be big and scary if you want.
That's just me though. I just have never had 5 lands to make him a mean 8/8 He's usually an expensive Thoctar.
Well, from what your post said, it sounded like you wanted him to give you a Lightning Bolt. Is it really a fair trade?
And I've recently swapped Chain Lightning for Lightning Helix. Zoo is getting more popular. Plus being an instant is always nice...and that they can't shoot it back.
There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of development. Just a bunch of regurgitating of one list with about 6 cards different.
What's the best combo hate we have? I have a Belcher deck over here that keeps whipping my ass. Turn 2 Teeg seems to be the best option, but is this just a match where I have to accept defeat? Is that Mindbreak Trap any good? I've been running Needles in the side, but it just feels like a toss up.
Teeg + cannonist is a good combination for combo hate. You obviously aren't going ot race them out right, so swapping out some apes and paths/swords for 3/3 Teeg and cannonist will insure they have to Infernal Tutor for a Firespout wasting time. Plus, they beat face where needle doesn't.
Just some thoughts from personal experience
The thing that makes figure good is his versatility. At some point I'll write a manifesto on how to play with figure properly, because when you know what you're doing with him he's pretty absurd.
I like Mindbreak Trap, but I've never tested it. I actually bought a pair the morning of the mox tournament with the intent to play them on my SB (Along side 2-ofs of Teeg and Pillar) but when I showed up to the tournament there was very little storm and a lot more dredge so I went with more tormod's crypts. I can't imagine a storm player leaving silence in for g2/3 unless they see a trap in g2 and side it back in for g3. But that's what mixing up your hate is for; Play some disruption critters (Teeg, Canonist), some non-creature disruption (Pillar), and some spell disruption (Silence, Mindbreak Trap.) I know from my experiences playing storm that that is the scariest way to fight them, because it means the storm player has to side in multiple different kinds of anti-hate and draw all the right kinds. It's just a good strategy, and is really kind of common sense.
If I was playing in a combo heavy meta, I'd probably play 7 cards, probably 2 teeg 2 pillar 3 trap, or 3 teeg 2 pillar 2 trap. Or I'd play a different deck that's better against combo.
But if you're finding you're losing to belcher, then pithing needles and Engineered Explosives are good enough I find, and they're both very versatile cards that can be used in a lot of matchups.
Anyway, I'm gonna go write my tournament report.
Although I like your thoughts on mixing up hate cards, I still would definitely play Teeg over Pillar, it's much more versatile. Good versus stax, landstill, nopro decks. Not to mention very handy vs Wog, Moat, EE, Chalice and the like. The other day I won a game just vs Armageddon Stax just because of Teeg.
Yeah, Figure is just plain crazy, can't wait for that manifesto.
sorry if this has already been brought up, i feel like sifting through 90 pages of posts is excessive.
has anyone attested the argument of teeg versus ethersworn cantonist? i've been playing zoo for a few months now, and it's performed very well for me. i placed 11th at legacy worlds and top 8'd the last meandeck open. while constructing my sideboard to pinpoint problem matchups, i decided to chalk up storm combo to a loss. after plenty of testing and after finishing sideboard options for my most concerned matchups, i had 4 open slots in my board. i knew i had to board for storm but wasnt sure what. i'll go through my thought processes for each option:
pyrostatic pillar:
the thing i didn't like about it was the fact that blecher can still go off and make a bunch of goblins with pillar in play
chant/silence/abeyance:
they just don't do enough... they'll stop storm if played intelligently, but i have to hold mana up to use them efficiently, therefore not being able to create a board presence, giving them enough time to rebuild for another big storm turn.
that brings us to the most commonly plays characters in this slot:
gaddock teeg/ethersworn cantonist:
I group them together because they both serve the same purpose and they are both 2/2's for 2. i was initially attracted to one of these two because they are creatures and create board presence and induce a clock. i decided on canonist for the shear fact that i can play 2. being a former storm combo player, i know most ANT decks play 1 slaughter pact in the board for these 2 guys (i did when i played ANT at grand prix chicago) so having 2 canonists in play makes it nearly impossible to them to win (bearing IGG shenanigans)
for reference, this is my list:
4 nacatl
4 kird ape
4 grim lavamancer
4 qasali pridemage
4 goyf
2 knight of the reliquary
4 lightning bolt
4 lightning helix
4 chain lightning
3 path to exile
2 fireblast
4 arid mesa
4 wooded foothills
4 windswept heath
3 taiga
2 plateau
1 savannah
1 forest
1 mountain
1 plains
sideboard:
4 ethersworn canonist
4 tormod's crypt (most GY hate works)
3 pyroclasm
2 Krosan grip
2 metagame slots (last time i had wastelands but was dissatisfied)
i've noticed that most people had gaddock teeg instead of canonist and i'm curious as to reasons why. i'm excited to hear people's responses and feel free to ask anything about questionable cards in my list, i'm comfortable talking about anything.
Teeg shuts down Stax, too, while they can play all of their big artifacts right on through the Canonist. Also, Canonist is an Artifact, making it vulnerable-er.
Also, Why so Fireblast? I'd run an extra Path and Jitte/Scroll/Terravore/MD Teeg in those slots.
are you suggesting that people might bring in artifact removal against zoo? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Pastorofmuppets
and about fireblast, i'm not exactly sure about that slot... i played price of progess in that slot at legacy champs. it's the only slot in my deck that keeps moving around. i think at the next tournament it's going to be a 4th path and something else, likely a 3rd knight.
and also "shuts down stacks?" the cards i've been most concerned with are chalice at 1 on the draw, magus of the tabernacle, and ghostly prison. i guess the added benefit of helping out against armageddon and smokestack is nice. i'll be honest, when i first put the deck together, i didn't give stacks much thought, but because of its recent success i definitely should allot it the attention it's recently earned.
I got a chance to play around with Figure of Destiny a little more today (my previous experience was with Figure was in a slightly slower GoyfSligh than what we have today), and I really liked it, but I think the creaturebase needs to be shifted around a little bit for it to work out properly. Too many hands were with Figure being the only 1 drop, and two 2 mana creatures. I will, as soon as my metagame becomes less hostile to aggro, (there were 5 different combo decks last night, and our weekly tournaments pull in only 16-24 people) be trying out something along these lines:
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Qasali Pridemage
4 Wild Nacatl
3 Kird Ape
2 Figure of Destiny
4 Grim Lavamancer (should probably be cut to 3, but it's hard for me to cut this number down, since I always want to see him)
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Vines of the Vastwood
Other spells
I mean, I went 2-2, but I played against Belcher(Not a lot of combo hate for Belcher in my board) and Reanimator(Had 3/2 split of Ravenous Trap/Relic, but tried to mulligan a little aggressively to no avail). Not places where a random 2/3 or 3/3 can shine.
I actually had a pretty interesting punt against the Reanimator deck (found out later that it didn't matter, but I could have played slightly better) where I was being attacked by an Empyrial Archangel, and if I had played the Forest in my hand the turn before, and grew my Figure to a 4/4 previously, I could use the 1 extra mana generated by a Knight of the Reliquary to make an 8/8 avatar, and intercept the Angel.
I’m new to zoo and I’m currently running the list below. I just played in a 59 player tournament but to my surprised I lost to Bant, Goblins and elves.
I have a couple of questions though hopefully somebody could help me out.
Even though I’m running 9 fetches and 3 canopies are 21 lands not to much? From my last tourney I had games were mana flood was an issue.
Is it ok to run 3 copies of canopy? Don’t we get mana screwed?
I don’t run fireblast but I’m getting curious seeing a lot of list with it. Is it really that good to play MD?
And concerning single jitte main deck, I find it too slow for zoo decks.
I like teeg because I can use it against dredge and ANT decks. But my SB is two teeg and two canonist.
A teammate of mine is running four copies of figure of destiny and he has consistently won top 8’s.
Land
4 wooded foothills
3 arid mesa
3 windswept heath
2 horizon canopy
2 plateau
3 taiga
1 savannah
1 forest
1 plains
1 mountain
21
Creatures
4 tarmogoyf
4 qasali pridemage
4 kird ape
4 wild nacatl
4 grim lavamancer
2 knight of the reliquary
22
Instant
4 lightning bolt
4 lightning helix
4 path to exile
Sorcery
2 chain lightning
Artifact
1 1 umezawa's jitte
Enchantment
2 sylvan library
17
Well, there's also Elspeth/Humility/Moat, against which Canonist does nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL10
And also, people could, in theory, board in artifact hate against Zoo. Some people just plain don't like Jitte and Library. Other than mana involvement, there's really not much reason to run Canonist over Teeg.