Printable View
lack of men against what exactly? Against most of the decks Delvers + Lavamancers + Clique is more than enough (coupled with burn).Quote:
Originally Posted by mackaber
If there is a problematic matchup, like for example goblins where lack of goyf really hurts, one can play something like Phyrexian Dreadnought in sideboard and get a 2 hit monster without going into 3rd color...
Against, say, knight of the reliquary or tarmogoyf for example.
By the way, I tested the list that placed 6th at Ovino, and I like the 2 dismembers md et delvers. Really.
What's more, in a aggro/combo oriented metagame, I'll problably drop the geese to play lavamancers in those slots. I really like those instant wins on turn 1 against maverick/elfball/merfolk/gob.
I tested Delvers today, and just fooled around for a bit, playing a number of hands against Goblins and casual Vampires. I must say, I am thoroughly impressed. Even though I was sceptical at first, being able to drop a creature on turn one and then swing for three on turn two is something only Zoo ought to be able to do.
The list I tested was more or less the standard list of the past couple of pages, but with Geese over Lavamancers, 2 Fire // Ice, 2 Dismembers and 3 Spell Snares.
I was reading previous posts and couldn't let this go without mentioning the following: Ravenous Trap's alternative mana cost is surprisingly easy to activate. Fetch->Entomb, or a single Careful Study will power it up. Similar to Surgical Extraction, Trap allows the possibility of 2-for-1ing your opponent if they go Fetch->Entomb->Reanimate or Careful Study->Exhume on the same turn. This will never happen with a Tormod's Crypt. More importantly, Trap does not get hosed by Pithing Needle or Null Rod, both of which are increasingly popular in Reanimator sideboards. Dredge also plays Needle as well as Grudge and Natures Claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by kues
My current Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction - Great vs Reanimator, Dredge, and especially Life From the Loam
1 Ravenous Trap - Better vs Dredge but also good against Reanimator for the reasons stated above
3 Submerge - Maverick, Zoo, Junk, NO RUG, Team America, Elves
3 Red Elemental Blast - U/x Control, Merfolk, Show & Tell, High Tide, Painter
2 Spell Pierce - Control, Combo, Team America, Junk
2 Krosan Grip/Ancient Grudge - Affinity, Stoneblade, Counterbalance, Enchantress, Chalice-based decks (very meta dependent)
1 Firespout - Goblins, Merfolk, Elves, Dredge, Zoo
(Notice, every card flips Delver)
I had the same SB on my last tournament (+1 firespout in place of the ravenous trap). 18 lands are realy low for 3 mana on turn 3 thats why I replaced firespout with pyroclasm (maybe volcanic fallout but merfolks is an easy MU anyway).Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
I had the same SB on my last tournament (+1 firespout in place of the ravenous trap). 18 lands are realy low for 3 mana on turn 3 thats why I replaced firespout with pyroclasm (maybe volcanic fallout but merfolks is an easy MU anyway).Quote:
Originally Posted by keys
The issue with Pyroclasm is that it won't kill Nacatls or LoA if he has 2+ lords out, though it will kill your Delvers :/Quote:
Originally Posted by CaBaaL
I chose to play mongoose over grim lavamancer because after having tested the deck against big zoo (which sees a lot of play here in Italy) I noticed that I was unable to win due to lack of beaters (basically lavamancer was dying to punishing fire again and again). Mongoose is the real deal when facing lots of spot removals and it is exactly what you need to win when you play goyf as a lifegain to win the race (it always gets spt'ed).Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchy-man
Instead of having a stellar MU against merfolks and maverick I preferred a more even one against the entire field.
Regarding dismember MD I totally agree with Keys. It's pure tempo.
I'm really glad to see the deck proving its strenght in Spain too. Congratulations on the finish!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dritzz
So the configuration is basically mine? :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Purgatory
I'm really happy to see so many players making the same choices I did, it means where're taking the right direction to bring this deck back to the DTB forum!
Maybe the wrong question here, but do you maybe know where I can find the Cascade list? I searched on a couple deck-database sites but couldn't find it!Quote:
Originally Posted by spartan117
Thanks
Yeah, I noticed that too. I basically just tossed 3x Mongeese in there because my Lavamancers have yet to show up in the mail, but they were actually pretty great all day. I almost always elected to cast a Delver before the Goose if I had both in hand, but Goose sure did their part of the job too :)Quote:
Originally Posted by spartan117
Yep,your MD is like mine,so i think that is perfect! My current SB is:Quote:
Originally Posted by spartan117
1 Pyroclasm
1 Krosan Grip
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Spell Pierce
4 Submerge
I played 1 dismember SB,but now iīm playing two of them MD,so i prefer the playset of submerge.Also after testing and the tournament,i prefer the third copie of surgical over the ravenous trap,because reanimator is still so good and i want one extra copie post SB to win this MU.Surgical is worse than the trap against dredge,but the people play more reanimator than dredge,and surgical is also good against dredge.So 3 surgical =D. And finally,I prefer one copie of krosan grip over ancient grudge.
I will probe the list the next weekend in the GPTs for Amsterdam and I hope to win the 3 byes,because I think that the list itīs so cool and perfect!!! xD
Trap is better than Surgical if your opponent plays Exhume and has multiple dorks in the yard. I don't think it's necessarily worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dritzz
I would have to say that, Caplan's list after extensive testing, is the real deal. IMO, Nimble Mongoose doesn't apply pressure fast enough, and frankly does not give you reach like Grim Lavamancer. Mongoose really only shines in a heavy control metagame. This is not the case in North America or Europe atm.
As for sideboard options, I've settled on the following:
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Ancient Grudge
2x Krosan Grip
2x Spell Pierce
3x Surgical Exraction
3x Pyroblast
3x Submerge
EDIT: As mentioned before, consider playing one Basic Island instead of the 4th Tropical Island. Being able to fetch out basics allows us to "play it safe" against other tempo oriented deck (Team America, Mirror, Dreadstill, etc.).
I have been toying around with delver in this deck recently and all I can say is that I am very impressed. They single handily won me games where ground creatures clog up the board where the tarmogoyf cant get through. Sure shroud is nice on mongoose but there have been far to many times were it just cant attack because the opponents creatures are too big.
Can someone post a link to "Caplan's list"? The last one I can find for that name online is from like 2009, which I'm assuming isn't the latest tech.
It's just 4 pages back. Jeeze.Quote:
Originally Posted by goobafish
Didn't know that goobafish was who that was. Jeeze. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by BackDr0p
Looks solid, except the Preordain strikes me as odd. I prefer Rushing River or Vendilion Clique, as far as singletons in this deck. Or maybe a third Dismember. Anyways, I agree with the general thought that Delver of Secrets is a freakin' house.
You should stop looking at it as a singleton. Its the 9th cantrip.
Spartan said:
I played Can Thresh at a pretty competitive Legacy tournament this weekend a I nearly had the same list as you. I did some testing the day before with Caplan's list, and I realised 2 things :Quote:
So the configuration is basically mine?
I'm really happy to see so many players making the same choices I did, it means where're taking the right direction to bring this deck back to the DTB forum!
1- Delver is insane. He really is a 3/2 flyer for U.
2- The deck loses when it fails to play an early threat.
A hand of 2 Stifles, 2 lands, Force, Snare and Waste is by no means bad, but it is not as good as it looks. With that kind of hand, without a cantrip, there's a lot of chances that you will fail to find a threat quickly, undoing all the work that your mana denial will have accomplished.
If that hand had -1 Stifle, +1 threat, it would have been insane. Can Thresh loses when it fails to apply pressure, making its disruption far less relevant. Knowing that, I knew that the one thing I wanted in the list was MOAR EARLY THREATS. At one point, I even tried Kird Ape (don't do this, it's horrible). I finally settled on 4 Delvers, 4 Goyfs and 4 Mongoose and it was great. Lavamancer was in the board because it's still very good against certain matchups, but was terrible with Mongoose. Basically, the rest of my list was the usual 4-of everything (Daze, Stifle, Snare, FOW, ...). My removal suite was 4 Bolts and 2 Dismembers. The latter was insane, F/I is definitely outdated.
It's pretty cool that we nearly arrived at the same list simultaneously.
Here's the list :
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Spell Snare
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
6 Fetches
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland