Hahahahaha! I remember that! :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by feline
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Hahahahaha! I remember that! :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by feline
I'm always looking for innovation and I'm wondering if anybody has tested the following cards so that i won't have to do it :
1. Manabond would probably need a new shell built around it with more lands and Life from the Loam.
2. Hedron Crab is an outlet and dredger in one card, but it is slow, needs fetchlands and is probably not needed in game 1.
3. [cards]Standstill[cards], but Breakthrough is probably just better :P
I hope the new edition will give us some goodies with the Scavenge mechanic, which doesn't play the spell and is uncounterable.
My hope,too. A black creature with life cost as scavenge that gives a creature -2/-2 instant speed would be too good to hope for I guess,isn't it?^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Smea.gol.lum
But I think it is not unlikely that there will be something we can use.
1. Surgicals generally target Ichorid yes, but after board there are some lists that side in Ashen Ghoul to mitigate the loss of the Ichorids... In some cases it might also be interesting to Surgical the Bridge from Below, especially if they get a bridge in the yard early with still little pressure on the board. I believe that against dredge decks that feature Dread Return/ reanimation target to combo out, it is especially effective to target a bridge early when you have the opportunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by namrufmot
2. You have to understand that a dredge player generally has two options in his sb. The first is enchantment / artifact removal to fight cages, crypts and most importantly Leyline of the Void. The second is several copies of Ashen Ghoul (with extra lands) / Memory Lapse to mitigate the effect of Surgical Extraction / Extirpate / Faerie Macabres
Occasionally if they play Dread Return, they have some additional DR targets, or some meta-game dependent choices like Firestorm
A good reason to split between Grafdigger's Cage / Surgical Extraction in your anti-dredge choice of SB cards is because it requires the dredge player to dilute his deck a lot more then if you only play hate that he can answer with the same sb slots. So a split between Surgical and Faerie Macabres is probably less effective then a split between Cage and Extirpate for example.
Macabres in general are more effective against reanimator, so if you want to sb those, add some artifact / enchantment answer to complement the macabres in your dredge match-up.
If anyone disagrees with this feel free to add.
SO took Dredge to a local tourney and went 2-2
Match 1 Vs Maverick
Lose game 1 to turn 2 thalia followed by Garruk to hit my Bridges
Game 2 mull to 5 and just get stomped
Match 2 Vs U/W Meddling Mage/Stoneblade/Exalted Angel Thing
Lose game 1 to a questionable keep and him beating face hard
Game 2 I get a ton of zombies turn 3 and win
Game 3 I go off, but he Mages Therapy which slows me down enough for him to win
Match 3 Vs Dredge
G1 + G2 I go off and win turn 2
Match 4 Vs Bant
Game 1 go off turn 2
Game 2 he surgicals Therapy and Troll, I go off shortly after and beat with my Undead Horde!
Overall not bad still need to find ways to beat Maverick though
I was not trying to attack anyone either just to be clear. And I do not share the same thoughts as JBulko. I have to decide if I'm going with tribes or leds for the side events at the GP. I may just play multiple 8 mans and test both, if I run LED I plan on trying Que's latest list with 14 land main and firestorms in the sb, I know a lot of people don't like firestorm but it is quite good against merfolk and elves which have both been popular in my area. Having an "uncounterable" discard outlet is always nice too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zodiark
Got 2nd place in a 46 players tournament, going 5-1 (no top8 playout).
Had really retarded draws almost every game and I'm really starting to love this deck :D
Firestorms were MVP in every game I boarded them in, imho, it's by far the best sideboard card.
Maybe I'll write a short report, it was really hot in there yesterday, so I'm not remembering that much :D
Firestorm getting some love back. I assume people just didn't run it since March, because it's the slots you often have to give up for the extra Lands in LED Dredge.
Can we see the list? I'm not sure on other people's reasons for not running firestorm but mine was definitely due to sideboard space and with the lands back in the main I'm more then happy to be running 3 again. The card is just such a sick tool.Quote:
Originally Posted by mort-
Were you using it to address Scavenging Ooze or just using it as a Wrath of God? I usually found the card to be a combination of win more and overly committal vs. hate myself, altho' it is super cool to WoG bitches in an aggro-combo deck out of no where.Quote:
Originally Posted by mort-
Sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by chags
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
→ 12
4 Bridge from Below
→ 4
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
→ 4
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Golgari Thug
1 Griselbrand
3 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
3 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
→ 22
3 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
2 Dread Return
4 Faithless Looting
→ 17
1 Darkblast
→ 1
→ → 60
Sideboard:
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Nether Shadow
3 Firestorm
4 Nature's Claim
→ → 15
I know the list is kind of strange, but it somehow works very well for me. All DR targets have been a house (in this case, a little village then :p) so far.
Both. I really don't like the Maverick matchup and had a hard time against it with the quadlaser. Ooze is a card that gets me very often, so I really like Firestorm. As you said, it's not only a solution against hate (KotR, Ooze, Thalia, Fauna Shaman), but also kills their board, which, seeing that they don't have carddraw, is almost every time GG.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
I also like it against Tribaldecks boarding Relics / Crypts. I kind of noticed that I only board Nature's Claim against Crypts / Relics / Spellbombs against blue based decks. Sounds weird, yes, but I love Firestorm much more in Tribalmatchups. It buys you so much time while slowdredging.
Best example is from this weekend. I played against Goblins (well, only match that I lost ;D). He went T2 War Marshal, T3 Chieftain, T4 Krenko. Taps Krenko and Firestorm gets his whole board in response.
@mort-: If I were to run something outside of Quadlaser, I would run your list -1 Ichorid & Cabal Therapy,+1 dread return & thug.
Were you still having trouble against Maverick with the Dread Return package main?
I really don't firestorm as a sideboard choice. Tribal is usually an easier matchup(barring not too much hate) and Firestorm doesn't always help against Maverick. They have MoM to save their best creature and can find graveyard hate in form of Ooze or Wheel while we are durdling around with firestorm.
Generally speaking, Nature's Claim is only for Leyline of the Void and Grafdigger's Cage, without knowing whether or not your opponent is playing Surgical Extraction, Tormod's Crypt or "other" you're usually better off SBing in Ashen Ghoul because it's good against Surgical and ok vs Tormod's Crypt.
Firestorm is obviously awesome uncontested, and I understand if you're playing in a metagame where Maverick has more than 1 Scavenging Ooze between the MD and SB, but how well does it fare when you're facing Tormod's Crypt and your opponent has a board position? I mean, you should probably destroy Goblins regardless of their board position as long as Mogg Fanatic isn't a part of it, what were your experiences with having to play into hate with it and what were you SBing out for it?
Don't do that :D The few games I tested with two Ichorids were just horrible, I think three is the minimum requirement here. Also, Cabal Therapy is by far the strongest card in the deck. Winning and losing are often divided by naming the correct card with Therapy or having a second one, so this would be the last card I'd cut.Quote:
Originally Posted by joemauer
As for problems against Maverick, like I said, I think the Firestorms do make the difference, not the DR package. Allthough it's quite nice to have two additional saccoutlets to overwhelm them with tokens (also, Griselbrand and Flayer have been plain awesome). Even if some people might call it win-more, I do think that winning on the spot is certainly better then having to wait a turn at the meager cost of four MD slots. Reanimating Elesh is obv really strong G2 / 3, as it will kill everything except KotR and buys you time / kills very fast.
Playing against Crypt / Board position is actually quite ok. Seing as they will most likely will begin the game and have Crypt on the field T1, you'll have at best 8 cards in your hand. So there's 6 after Land + Looting or still 7 if you want to DDD. And that's it. You are the deck that can bring terror and destruction, so they have to depend on their Crypt to protect them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
You have time to wait, you don't need to play anything. So while they HAVE to break the Crypt (the luckier you are, the earlier they have to), you wait with your instant WoG + 6 cards in your hand. Maybe 1 less, if you did play Cabal Therapy.
If they are to fast for you.. well, then you both start at 0 again.
As for the boarding plan, against creaturebased decks, I'll usually cut the Breakthrough, Flayer, sometimes Griselbrand (if Iona and Elesh are both better). Next slot I cut is Thug, sometimes Darkblast (Merfolk for example).
I don't like cutting LED (usually I'll only board it against Leylines) because it enables some sick lategamer power postCrypt or postWaste if you still have a Looting in hand / grave.
So I actually don't board much, the deck doesn't really need to. I'm quite positive that you can win postboard games against Crypt without boarding at all. Of course, sometimes they get the nuts, sometimes you do, sometimes you both and sometimes neither, but that happens :D
Edit: I think up until now, I've lost maybe two games were I'd played and resolved Firestorm. It's the real deal, I can't stress it enough.
You're kidding me right? http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...last=BulkowskiQuote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
I thought we knew Jason has already been placing with his list before.. he likes Bloodghast and they work for him so why do you keep insisting its terrible? its obviously a different build and catered more for a combo finish.
It's one thing to be good at Magic. It's another to be overly condescending and inherently rude to people trying to facilitate a discussion with comments that serve no purpose but to flame others, especially the less experienced players trying to make honest contributions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Que
Latest list:
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Tarnished Citadel
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
3 Putrid Imp
4 Bridge from Below
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
4 Breakthrough
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 Nature's Claim
SB: 3 Ashen Ghoul
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Tarnished Citadel
SB: 1 Putrid Imp
SB: 1 Tireless Tribe (or second Ancient Grudge, depends on how much I expect Stoneblade)
Seems pretty good. I don't like playing (almost) Quadlaser without 4 Ichorids main deck. I was using the 4th Thug on place of the 4th Ichorid, and the last Ichorid was really missed in every game 1 against fast decks. I needed to hit them consistently on my graveyard to grind out games (storm is pretty big here in my locals).
Postboard, the fourth Ichorid comes out in the first place, followed by Lion's Eye Diamond and Breakthrough (depending on the match). The lonesome Tireless Tribe has pulled its weight against Goblins, Merfolk and Zoo, but I might replace it for Grudge #2.
This deck feels very consistent, and I've been keeping strong hands consistently, they being turn 1 or 2 combos. This deck ins't belcher, and you don't need to combo out turn 1. I usually play some Study effect or a blind Therapy (I'm pretty good [luckysack] at this).
Leylines of the Void is mainly to deal with Reanimator, as its an stupidly hard matchup. I don't play Darkblast nor Firestorm because Peacekeeper isn't present here in my meta, and the deck that uses it (UW Miracles) is almost a bye, so no worries.
I was responding to a flame myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood
idk if its just this thread exclusively, but there are regulars on here who treat others' opinion as completely wrong simply because they're differing from their own. Being constructive seems to be a challenge in this thread which is the main reason I tend to lurk rather than post.
At the end of the day we'll get nowhere if we keep bad mouthing others' decks instead of improving our own game.
@Vandalize. how do you like that list? did you not want to go completely Quad to help our your sb? The only difference I see is the addition of PIMP and Tireless tribe from Quad. Are you really missing those 2 lands in your Game 1s? Or do you believe Tireless and PIMP add significant impact Games 2 & 3?
The reason this occurs is in large part to novice Dredge (and Legacy, for that matter) players who seek to learn from the more experienced players. The challenge lies in educating each other - not ourselves. That seems to be difficult for others as the tolerance level for those individuals making questionable arguments or suboptimal choices is incredibly low for some people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Que
I agree with this sentiment. However, the issue I was referencing pertains to bad mouthing others and not necessarily their decks. That is intolerable and will not be accepted.Quote:
At the end of the day we'll get nowhere if we keep bad mouthing others' decks instead of improving our own game.
Got fifth place at a local tournament with Quadlaser -1 breakthrough -1 led +2 street wraith. I beat a mono blue control deck, a pretty scrubby dragon deck, and an esper control deck. I lost to this real jerk playing Belcher who just had the worst attitude. He probably just had a colonoscopy with a rough-handed doctor. Anyway it was fun and street wraith has been really good for me in testing and in tournament play.