You can't race Storm combo regardless, I'd just accept Storm combo as a lost match up and concentrate on beating the Control and Aggro-Control decks, which the Tireless Tribe versions do really, really well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayk0l
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You can't race Storm combo regardless, I'd just accept Storm combo as a lost match up and concentrate on beating the Control and Aggro-Control decks, which the Tireless Tribe versions do really, really well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayk0l
As a foreword, I am to poor for LEDs, so no matter how much you convince me, I cannot run them.Unmask seems decent. I could easily drop Street Wraith for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bruenor
Would even Sage and LED be enough to out race them? Besides, I'm not too sure that storm will be big in my meta. Lots of Dreadstill though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayk0l
What about a 1/1 split? Or would those slots be better dedicate to something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenCid
Aside from opening with LED, Breakthrough, dredger, and land it is nearly impossible to race storm combo. Side in all your Unmask and Chalice (if on the play) if you have them and hope for the best (obviously Needle can help in some matches as well) - Knowing what to name with Therapy is huge. IMO it's really not worth considering storm combo when deciding on sideboard choices for Ichorid given the current meta. Storm is really not enough of a presence yet to completely warp the board, which is what it would take to turn that MU around.
I would run something else in favor of 1 copy of EW. At first i run the deck with 2x sages and it was right for me. Some times after playing the deck i realised that 1 sage was tightly enough. Then i tried EW and i was convinced that she's the best option. 11 dredgers and EW is just what you need to drop all cards in yard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguine Voyeur
So from what I can tell, there is basically two versions of the deck.
A slower more controllish version that plays 15-16 lands, and 8 permanent discard effects.
And a speedy more explosive but less resilient one that only runs 4 permanent discard effects (Putrid Imp) but a lot more instant based draw/discard effects.
Is one path definately superior to the other, or perhaps should this be divided into two different threads.
Again a quick strategy question.
I know it's hard to awnser but every little thing can be usefull for me here :wink:
- What cards to name with C.Therapy?
(ofc depending on op.deck but in general, with topdecks)
- What cards to name with P.Needle?
(ofc depending on op.deck but in general, with topdecks)
- Use of ChaliceoV.
I asume mostly for :0: ?
Thx!
@Recon:
-In general you want to use your therapies to make sure Dread Return resolves (i.e. getting rid of counter magic). They are also useful for proactively dealing with hate cards.
-Needle will be naming Tormod's Crypt in the vast majority of cases.
-Chalice is usually set for zero to stop Crypt from being played. It is also useful against combo, especially when on the play.
I'd say those are the most common uses for the cards in question, obviously that list is not exhaustive.
Sunshine's answers were right...here are some more names.Quote:
Originally Posted by Recon
First of all you have to previously know the opponent deck, because your opponent is a friend or a fellow, to not waste the therapy or in match 1 you should await for some moves of your opponent to get a good therapy.
Concerning the second option as the most probable i divide the option in 2 parts:
1- Cards that crap the combo: counters mostly: Force of will or daze are awful. If you see an island in the other side of the table try to make sure that they are out! Meddling mage is other bad guy!
2- "Maindeck hate": There is lots of examples...the commonest:
Engineered explosives: Landstill, MUC and fellows...
Mogg fanatic: Burn, sligh, Tarmoburn, boroslike decks...
Tormod's crypt: Grinding servant and trinket decks...
Pernicious deed: Rock, doran...
Extirpate: Pox, discard decks in general, some versions of rock...
Powder keg: MUC, landstill....
Ghostly prision / propaganda / moat / Solitary confinement: MUC, landstill, enchantress...
In the most of cases tormod's crypt is the option, but powder keg, pernicious deed, and engineered explosives are other candidates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Recon
Yes 0 is tha common cast cost for chalice of the void to get rid from T. crytp but it also helps, for 0, against engineered explosives.Quote:
Originally Posted by Recon
I wish i was helpful...
PD: I would like to put the cardlinks but i don't know how to do it...XD
Thx Guys!
I've played last friday, small tournament, and did okish.
Tomorrow is the big tournament so after the weekend i'll let you know how it went.
Im still playing around with some cards...
10/11 lands - 3/4 G.Thugs
Sideboard, Im thinking about adding 2 R.of.Rev. & 2 A.Grudges over 4.W,Mares. Since I 'feel' the flashback will help me alot...
Im allmost sure about the M.Masques over C.Study. M.Masques helped me out alot! Allthough looking at some other builds today made me think. Luckally im here with some friends so i'll test some more tonight. Allthough I probally will stick with the first build I made :wink:
Again, thx :smile:
I you wish you could tell us about your match ups!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Recon
11 lands i think is better...i assume that you are running the LED version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Recon
Wispmare vs grudge / revelation is an almost a philosophical discussion...your experience will tell you the right SB composition. But remember that mare gets rid from enchantment but no from artifacts, is reanimable and token stuff.
I think that M.Masques = Unmask right?? Cutting careful study for unmask is an interesting option to get some knowledge about the opponent's deck and by the way get rid from some awful cards or make a great use of your therapy. As an advise if you run unmask run 4 thug too instead 3. For the fast combo ichorid unmask could be a good choice for solving the maindeck hate and planning your game in exchange of speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Recon
I think this statement is a bit of a stretch. Sure, if they win turn 1, then there is no chance, but that is true of any non-blue deck. Many builds have 4-8 discard slots between main and side, some 8 main. There is a good chance that CotV comes in out of the board. Without LED and Chrome Mox storm is hampered significantly. Between discard, CotV, and the possibility of turn 2-3 kills, I wouldn't count Ichorid out in the matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by BreathWeapon
It is possible to race storm, though unlikely, I just don't think it's worth dedicating sideboard slots to that MU. This brings up a good question: is anyone playing Chalice in their board anymore (I think I ran two SB ones in the last large tournament I played Ichorid in)? Yes, chalice can stop Crypt as well as free mana but you only really want to side it in on the play. If Relic were more popular I would not consider Chalice given that storm is not really that heavily played.
Sure, it's possible, but we're discussing whether or not you should be playing a LED based deck to race Storm Combo or you should be playing a non-LED based deck to shore up the amount of damage Tormod's Crypt can/will do. I don't see the point of structuring your deck around racing Storm combo if it's not as good against aggro-control or control games 2/3.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear102
It really comes down to utility, and preparing for Storm combo just isn't worth the hassle.
I considered chalice once when i hadn't pithing needle. If it's true that storm combo is a lost mutch up and if relic becomes used i think that pithing needle is double useful in this point than a 0 chalice.Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshine
Against storm combo i'd consider unmask when sideboarding to get rid from hate and main cards of the combo. And in this MU, i'd play the combo version of ichorid, because i think that this MU is a matter of speed.
The obvious thing to do if your meta has a decent amount of AdN in it is to simply switch to the control build. 15x lands plus 4x Chalice in the board is good. You can run more discard if you want, as well.
That's what I would do if I saw a lot of Ad Nauseam.
If you think that LED only lets you race Storm, you're mistaken.
It lets you race a ton of other things as well. A Ghostly Prison or 3sphere from Stax. A Trinket->Crypt from Faerie Stompy. A CotV or a Moon effect from Dragon Stompy. A Propaganda from MUC. Hell, even a "Bolt You" from Burn. The list goes on.
Without LED, the deck is more disadvantaged than you think.
I think that we are all agree that our best chance against storm is the LED derived speed.
I keep my oppinion that a 2 combo match round is pur best choice against storm combo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias
Actually, LED is horrible against Crypt. The only things good against Crypt are Needle and Putrid Imp
LED is horrible against all forms of grave hate. LED versions are more explosive, but LED-less verssions are able to dig for SB cards easier.
With the right sideboarding, this include cutting LED in match 2, sideboarding is not a big matter, but i admit that slow verssion has its advantages in this point...Quote:
Originally Posted by kicks_422