[Deck] Imperial Painter

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Originally Posted by DrewliusMaximus

Legend, did you use the list with SoLS?



I was playing around with MD Trinisphere (which I like now), but I was wondering if 3 might be a good number for the MD because:
1. Antisymmetry with Mox
2. Unlike Dragon Stompy, Imperial Painter has many cheaper spells, so Trinisphere potentially slows down our own gameplan.
3. This deck can frequently come fast out of the gate with cheaper spells, either countering blue spells with Blasts or playing a Servant and a Blast first turn (or burning a creature, or attempting a 2nd turn combo), making a turn 3 or 4 Trinisphere the preferable play (especially if you can Blast a land before then).

Am I misguided here?

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Yes, Sword of Light and Shadow was used in the latest list as there have been no changes.

I really believe that Trinisphere in the main is a meta-game call. If your area is saturated with combo and some control, then absolutely. However, I am no longer an advocate of playing it in the main. When you win the die-roll and you go on the play, Trinisphere turn one is almost as good as Magus turn one. But you can't guarantee you'll be on the play turn one. This is why it's so much better in the board.

Trinisphere can win you games alone - just like Magus. But understand by playing Trinisphere turn one you are potentially setting yourself back with your Blast effects and the sort until you get Painter online. This is why I moved it to the board: To completely shut down Ichorid and storm-combo to the point where you put them on full-tilt and they have to win as soon as possible. Otherwise, you run all over them with creatures and a potentially game-ending Grindstone activation.

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But you can't guarantee you'll be on the play turn one. This is why it's so much better in the board.

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It seems to me that Trinisphere works pretty well against all sorts of decks even as a later turn play. When you ran it MD I remember you said that it functioned kind of like a Rule of Law...that's what I'm finding, and it seems to help dictate tempo later in the game when you can answer spells one-for-one with Blasts or you are in topdecking mode.

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But understand by playing Trinisphere turn one you are potentially setting yourself back with your Blast effects and the sort until you get Painter online.

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My biggest worry about MD Trini is slowing the ability to Blast (and burn and play/activate Grindstone on the same turn), and in the end, I'm sure you're right that is just a metagame call. But this deck seems to make especially good use of Trinisphere as a later-turn tempo-slowdown. That, combined with the concern about slowing your own stuff too early is why I was thinking that 3 might be a good number in the main.

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Originally Posted by A Legend

@Maveric: And Ichorid is an extremely favorable matchup for this deck. The amount of hate that comes in post-board is disgusting. I've played close to a dozen tournament matches against Ichorid and lost all but two.

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A Legend, I think you meant to say that you've "won" all but two, not lost.

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Originally Posted by Madpeep

A Legend, I think you meant to say that you've "won" all but two, not lost.

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Yeah, that's it. Thanks. :cool:

Hi

I play this deck with mws for nearly 2 weeks.
My list is a monoR one's, playing many useless cards when painter isn't on the board. I like this idea 'cause it totaly differs from the laws of Magic.

Then I play 19 useless cards. It allows me to win easily when painter comes on the board.

In France, people are very suspicious with this deck because of the too much differences between this deck and other decks like threshold (and perhaps because of imperial recruiters' price^^).

However I'd like to know if this deck is actually played in the US, and if it wins.

Thanks for having read me.


frenchy-man.

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Originally Posted by frenchy-man

Hi

I play this deck with mws for nearly 2 weeks.
My list is a monoR one's, playing many useless cards when painter isn't on the board. I like this idea 'cause it totaly differs from the laws of Magic.

Then I play 19 useless cards. It allows me to win easily when painter comes on the board.

In France, people are very suspicious with this deck because of the too much differences between this deck and other decks like threshold (and perhaps because of imperial recruiters' price^^).

However I'd like to know if this deck is actually played in the US, and if it wins.

Thanks for having read me.


frenchy-man.

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I would look back on the first post in this thread. There you'll find some explanations and perhaps gain a better understanding about how the deck is played and why you should try it.

It is played here in America, absolutely. The only thing is that Imperial Recruiters are very expensive and scarce to boot and some people cannot afford or find them, which inherently makes the deck a little more difficult to build. Is it worth finding the cards? That all depends on how much the deck suits your play-style. It currently is an Established Deck because of its recent great performance in and outside the United States in large tournaments.

Also, I wouldn't consider every card in your deck "useless" without Painter. Even without Painter, you can still pitch your dead cards to Jaya Ballard or Chrome Mox if the situation calls for it.

Just to let everyone know how the deck has been performing recently:

The last few tournaments I've played in (four, total) have all been continued Top 4 placings with the deck. I'm really confident in the current build and see no changes that are necessary.

There was some chit-chat about using Furnace Whelp over Dragon Whelp. I wouldn't make that change because of the toughness Dragon Whelp brings to the table. He makes the deck a little more resistant to Pyroclasm, which is huge. Besides, I hardly ever pump the Dragon more than three times anyways.

Also just to let everyone know how well the Swords of Light and Shadow have been working:

Phenomenal.

Since placing the set of three in my build, my aggro match has been all but completely fixed. There never really was too much an issue against aggro-control decks; it was really all about only aggro. Mongoose was a problem, but the Sword fixed it. I even played against several Rock variants this past week and (surprisingly) won each round. Originally, Rock was a severely bad match for the deck. It gives you some options once a man is equipped, and that's awfully important for a deck once lacking in recursion. I even beat Burn once because of it, another once dangerous adversary. This card genuinely has solved a lot of problems the deck once faced.

So in short: My original list hasn't been tampered with and it's working fantastically.

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all been continued Top 4 placings

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Awesome man! I haven't played much with SoLS, but it sure looks like I will be using it next time I get a chance.

Last weekend I went sixth (5-2) on a 65 people tournament. I lost against Rgb Sligh and UWb Landstill. My wins were against
Elves!
Full English Breakfast
UGw Threshold
UWb Landstill
Goblins

Here is my build:

Mainboard:
6 Mountain
4 Volcanic Island
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Academy Ruins
4 Painter's Servant
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Magus of the Moon
3 Trinket Mage
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Vexing Shusher
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyroblast
4 Grindstone
4 Chrome Mox
4 Pyroclasm

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Gaea's Blessing
4 Shattering Spree
2 Viashino Heretic
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Stuffy Doll

The sideboard ist quite...experimental to say at least but I really like the blue splash. Trinket Mage helped me quite some times to complete the Combo, especially when I bought myself some time with Magus of the Moon. I play 4 Pyroclasm main because I found that I lost quite often to fast aggressive decks. This buys you quite some time against WW, Goblins or some black aggro builds.

Trying out the list with SolaS, i can say that aggro shouldnt be that hard.
At least you can still combo out. So the Pyroclasms are just slot waste.
I guess i saw you playing on that tourney.
You were the one who bought some time with a magus on board and still casting a trinket mage tapping volcanic for blue...
I think your list is relying to much to the combo which is a step back from the current lists.

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Originally Posted by EaD

I guess i saw you playing on that tourney.

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Yeah and I know you are active in the planet board as well and probably we know each other from the Spieleland, but anyway...

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Originally Posted by EaD

You were the one who bought some time with a magus on board and still casting a trinket mage tapping volcanic for blue...

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Under Magus I probably casted it with the Chrome Mox.

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Originally Posted by EaD

Trying out the list with SolaS, i can say that aggro shouldnt be that hard.
At least you can still combo out. So the Pyroclasms are just slot waste.

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I ordered a couple of SoLaS but guess what...they arrived excactly one day too late. :mad:

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Originally Posted by EaD

I think your list is relying to much to the combo which is a step back from the current lists.

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I tried the aggressive version before but I wasn't very succesful with it. I wouldn't consider it a step backwards but a different approach. But I will go and test the SoLaS. Oh and I still won games with the good old Recruiter beatdown. :cool:

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Yeah and I know you are active in the planet board as well and probably we know each other from the Spieleland, but anyway...

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Just by seeing, i will miss the olde spieleland =(, i was the one to play TempoTreshold

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Under Magus I probably casted it with the Chrome Mox.

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Could be.
Adler told me the story as i told it to you.

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But I will go and test the SoLaS. Oh and I still won games with the good old Recruiter beatdown.

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Which is even better with the Swords.

BTW: what did you pay for your recruiter playset?

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Originally Posted by EaD

Could be.
Adler told me the story as i told it to you.

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People, don't recognize that the red card you imprinted on the mox is also blue under painter's influence. So he probably saw me tapping the Chrome Mox (imprinted with a red card) and Volcanic Island and random red mana source and thought I got the blue mana from the Island. Shame on him that he didn't say something then. :tongue:

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Originally Posted by EaD

BTW: what did you pay for your recruiter playset?

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I will send you a mail over planet.

Job well done on the placing. Very nice.

However, I can almost assure you that your loss to Sligh would have been all but prevented had Sword of Light and Shadow been used. That match gets a lot easier pre-board with those slots.

Also, playing blue is a bad idea in Imperial Painter. When you have a Painter in hand with a Mountain, Tomb, and Blast, you always drop the Mountain first. By dropping the Volcanic you're opening yourself to Wasteland hate even more and that can be extraordinarily bad, as most of the time you need to run off that singleton red source. It's not worth changing the mana-base around for. Sword of Light and Shadow recurs all of your creatures, pumps them, and protects them from spot removal, all in one.

I was able to play with SoLS last night and I must say, it is awesome. I played three games against my friend's Rock deck and that card certainly helps that matchup quite a bit. I was more impressed though by how useful it is all around. I played several games against Goblins, and between burning his guys away and the pump-effect of the Sword, I was able to protect my guys from Incinerator almost every time, not to mention having the prospect of recurring them.

I had decided to try sideboarding one Hearth Kami instead of one of the Heretics before I tried the SoLS, so that I could find him if I needed to destroy a cheap artifact quickly, and SoLS makes him reusable. I didn't get to exploit that very much last night though. Has anyone else wanted Recruitable artifact removal that is not subject to summoning sickness?

Also, I have a question (mainly for Legend, but also for anyone else who has played with stuff like Dragon Whelp): how important have you found it to have the lone flying threat? I can see that having an evasive beater like that gives you an alternative strategy to Recruit a straight-forward attacker and abuse SoLS with it. But I ask because I have liked having 3 Jayas just because her synergy in this deck is ridiculous and SoLS adds even more synergy by allowing discarded creatures to be returned to hand.

This whole deck idea is amazing, and there are so many awesome trix that could fit in the mold for SB control. Props to the creator.

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Originally Posted by DrewliusMaximus

how important have you found it to have the lone flying threat? I can see that having an evasive beater like that gives you an alternative strategy to Recruit a straight-forward attacker and abuse SoLS with it. But I ask because I have liked having 3 Jayas just because her synergy in this deck is ridiculous and SoLS adds even more synergy by allowing discarded creatures to be returned to hand.

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The thing is with Imperial Painter that anything (sans Humility) can be destroyed with Blast effects with a Painter in play, so having the flying threat isn't really all that important. Dragon Whelp serves as an alternate win condition. A pumpable flyer is something that gives the deck a little bit of power; something it once lacked.

Three Jaya isn't a good idea because of the curve of the deck. Rarely will you have access to three straight red mana, especially in the early going. Keep it at two, that's a perfect number. Remember, you have to wait a turn to get her online.

Speaking of Humility, I've kind of thought about Anarchy in the board. People are starting to play that damn card everywhere. Magus is what helps me get around it, and I've won games because on him out and Humility in play, but it's still annoying (even thought the SoLS helps you get around it too). Thoughts?

I reckon that, with a full playset (you do play all four, right) of SoL&S, you should be find through Humility. Unless, of course, you have extra slots in your board.

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Originally Posted by Zach Tartell

I reckon that, with a full playset (you do play all four, right) of SoL&S, you should be find through Humility. Unless, of course, you have extra slots in your board.

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I actually only play three at the moment. I could, however, fit a fourth in the board against things like Humility and straight aggro.

I tried playing Burning Wish about a month ago, which would allow you to fit in 1 SB Anarchy and actually be able to use it. I ended up not liking it at the time because creating a Wish board was taking so many slots, and drawing multiple Wishes sometimes meant there weren't enough relevant Wish targets. However, I was playing them in slightly different build (no SoLS), and I did like being able to get relevant hate like Shattering Spree and Pyroclasm in game 1. If I were to try it again, I would use 3 Burning Wishes and dedicate maybe 5 SB slots to it.