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ToA is pretty good against the new ad nauseum deck running around. If you look at the source tourny, dreadstill did surprisingly well, partially i would suspect because of maindeck Fow and Stifle. This deck plays Fow and Stifle also and beats. So combo heavy i would say is the best metagame with lots of ichorid and AdNauseum.
Threshold varies a lot so I don't know what to tell you about threshold against other decks. Depends on what build of thresh and what rogue deck you are talking about.
I know it's a fast format, and 4 mana is probably too much so it's probably a stupid suggestion. But why not Yukora, the Prisoner or Plague Sliver as extra threat.
I said it before and I will say it again: If you need more creatures, your best bet is to run serrendeb efritti. 3 mana for a 3 power flyer that doesn't care about lightning bolt and pitches to FOW? It's not anywhere near as good as stalker or goyf but if you REALLY want more creatures I think it's your best bet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelis
I'm also a huge fan of needle in almost any SB like this, especially one that doesnt run plague. Obviously BEB is in there against goblins so you'd probably go -4 Sinkhole (perhaps, I've always found discard to be less useful than land D against gobbos s0 -4 thoughtseie?) +4 BEB. Needle strikes me as an excellent way to shut off vials or perhaps survival. Two cards that can really overtake a tempo deck if they sit out on the field for too long. I don't know if it's really necessary, but it seems like it ought to be a consideration.
And in my opinion, crypt>leyline right now. Mostly becaue you don't have to keep bad hands to have effective post-board graveyard hate. You can cantrip into them.
True, that or Moroii (ghetto Effreets [or however the fuck it's spelled]), but personally, I wonder where you're finding the slots for the creatures in the first place? Shaving a Sinkhole and a land/Daze/Ponder? Sounds like a bad plan :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaunder
I really like Pithing Needle in decks like this too. I'd think that -4 Sinkhole, +4 BEB, -X Thoughtseize, +X Pithing Needle would be pretty :laugh: , considering the plethora of targets that Needle actually has in this match. GOGO LIST FUNCTION!!!:Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaunder
- AEther Vial
- Rashidan Port
- Wasteland
- Gempalm Incinerator
- Fetchlands**
- Seige-Gang Commander
**Leaving Stifles for Ringleaders, Seige-Bang Commanders, etc. Also note that their manabase looks a bit like this
From Tacosnape's most recent posted list:
4 Badlands
2 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
Or this
23 Lands:
4 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
4 Badlands
3 Taiga
i.e. they're pretty open to lolwhoops I just nerfed your manabase in game 2 if you have enough needles. Then again, you most likely want to turn off AEther Vial, safe-guard your manabase from Wastelands/Ports, etc, so it might not be plan A, but it's an option that's available. Please note that keeping Goblins off mana is actually pretty good, because Warchief, Matron, Ringleader, and SGC are all fairly mana intensive cards, are all very important cards, and Goblins really likes to make land drops so it can vomit it's hand onto the board (or play more than a spell a turn, for that matter).
The first card you call with needle against goblins is Vial. No exceptions. It's the strongest card in the deck against aggro-control, save perhaps a lackey that you don't have an answer for.
Second I'd probably name port, unless wasteland seems like a big threat, followed by fetches.
Is needle really necessary though? I haven't played the matchup much, so if I'm advocating a failed idea I'd love to hear about it now.
Seconded.Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaunder
Well, Port, yes if it was present, but from what I've heard the deck is pretty resilient against Wastelands, and letting Stifle + BEB + FoW + Daze get all kinds of friction on (i.e. Pithing Fetchlands instead of Stifling them, giving you 4x more relevant "removal/ counters" while maintaining ManaDisruption) sounds... sexy.Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaunder
True. BEB + other stuff sounds like enough :rolleyes: Needles are good in other Matches, though, and are almost always tempo.Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaunder
Most lists of goblins play Tin-street hooligan which will kill your pithing Needles. Survival plays tinstreet too and also indrik stomphowler. Be ready to defend your needle if you are playing it.
But with Needle, you can let Stifle be psuedo BEB, and even if it's not making Ringleaders worthless, it's still making that TSH that they Matron'd for worthless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy I Don't Know
Heck, even if they do kill it, it's gained you tempo and cost them resources. Just saying "they have a way to kill it" isn't enough of an arguement against a card. It might not be worthwhile for other reason, though. I'm sure there was a reason to not include it in the main list and I'm curious as to what that reason is.Quote:
Originally Posted by raharu
Space, most likely. That, and the fact that Sinkhole is only less-that-stellar at worst, because everybody plays lands (shit, Ichorid doesn't even play Magic and they run some lands), but Pithing Needle can be an entirely dead card because there are decks that entirely lack Activated Abilities (or relevant ones).Quote:
Originally Posted by rsaunder
what about putrefy, trygon predator or divert in SB?
All of these were considered and putrefy actually was in the board for a bit. The card just costs too much mana and doesn't help against threshold nearly as much as edict.Quote:
Originally Posted by kikkofrio
I love trygon predator but the problem with him is that he has to swing to do anything, so your opponent's removal can act as a hard counter to your artifact/enchantment removal. Krosan grip is going to be better 90% of the time. Fitting both in the board would be ideal, but I'm not sure how that can be done. Space is really at a premium.
As for divert, it's a really cool card but I don't know what problems it would solve.
I realize that the below list is not a 1-1 with "Team America" but it is an oblivious off-shot and there isn't a another thread to discuss it. Are there any good modifications from this build or do you feel many of them are meta game driven.
Better Than Threshold by Hugo López
Mainboard:
1 Sea Drake
3 Tombstalker
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Spell Snare
3 Smother
4 Stifle
3 Thoughtseize
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
3 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
Sideboard:
1 Pernicious Deed
4 Extirpate
2 Hydroblast
2 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
3 Mind Harness
That list makes my head hurt. I'm not sure why you would run only 3 tombstalkers, it just doesn't make sense. And running 3 thoughtseizes when you absolutely want to see them early seems poor. The choice of snare over sinkhole I can kind of understand, even though I'm pretty sure sinkhole is the better choice most of the time, but maindeck pernicious deed and ee seems to be giving all the tempo you've been earning right back to your opponent. Maybe in the board (although I've tried deed in the board and did not like it), but maindeck it seems questionable.
Also, snuff out >>>> smother.
Why run 3 Tombstalkers over 4 Tombstalkers?
Because running 4 of a card makes you draw multiples and it is hard to have that many cards in your graveyard to be able to cast one after another. Also maybe he doesn't want to lose to double extirpate?
Why 3 Thoughtseize over 4 Thoughtseize?
Because as playing a card to the 4 copy max increases you drawing them early at the same time it increases you drawing them late when they are completely dead cards.
I suppose we should all follow this advice and play 3 copies of every good card you want to see as early as possible. The usual suspects IMO would be Force of Will, Tarmogoyf, Swords to Plowshares, Tropical Island, Brainstorm, and Wasteland. That would certainly make deckbuilding interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkalucard
Are you being completely serious right now?Quote:
Originally Posted by darkalucard
the problem with the above list is that it is playing cards that bring the game to the end game [deed, EE, Spell Snare(arguably)] and cards that are only good in the early game[thoughtseize, stifle(arguably)] Focusing on one or the other would most likely make a stronger deck. Otherwise in the late game you will draw useless cards or in the early game you will draw cards that do not further your goals.
I think smallpox could go into the sideboard of this deck over diabolic edict, Smallpox is very good against goblins. Yes, I know if you have a dude it is the worst, but on turn two facing down a lackey i can think of no better card.
Snuff Out answers turn 1 Goblin Lacky so does Force of Will. Diabolic Edict is infinitely better than Small Pox. I really FAIL to understand why people keep suggesting that Small Pox be crammed into this deck. Small Pox =/= Tempo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy I Don't Know
Really I thought this thread was EPIC FAIL before, now it really has just gone down the tube. Yes this post is condescending, but really the past three pages have the consistency of warm oatmeal and baby food. Just stop.