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Yes, but Twincast can't be viewed as a combo piece. First of all it won't do anything on itself, because you need to already have the card you want to copy. It's also pretty important that you can be 2-for-1'd with Twincast pretty easily. Remand is there to help slow the game down, which Twincast can't do. Comboing out earlier or stretching the game is essentially the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus-God
Sorry I couldn't contribute anything to the latest discussion, but my internet at home is broken and as there are holidays, I usually don't have the chance to be online at university.
In the last weeks I had two very interesting tournaments (even if not succesful), so I'll write brief reports and talk about my conclusions afterwards.
If you don't care for the reports you can also skip them.
Quote:
My list for both events:
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
6 Island
6 Snow-covered Island
4 High Tide
4 Brainstorm
3 Opt
1 Peek
4 Reset
4 Impulse
3 Remand
2 Brain Freeze
3 Meditate
3 Cunning Wish
3 Turnabout
2 Cryptic Command
4 Force of Will
2 Flash of Insight
SB:
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
2 Wipe Away
2 Echoing Truth
1 Repeal
2 Twincast
3 Disrupt
1 Rebuild
1 Mystical Tutor
GP Hannover sideevent (77 players), 7 rounds of swiss:
Quote:
round 1: Mono-U control.
A Bye basically. In game 1 I kill him easily and I don't remember if I managed to bounce his Chalice/1 in game 2 or won right through it.
1-0
round 2: Zoo.
He wins game 1 on the play thanks to me not finding High Tide. I win game 2 on the play with a turn 4 kill, because he topdecks another Kird Ape when instant-burn would have killed me and I win game 3 as he starts with Kird Ape and Vexing Shusher but doesn't have a forest.
2-0
round 3: ANT
I don't know what he plays and keep a hand without protection so he Duresses me once and then goes off with Chant + Ad Nauseam on turn two or three. Only on three life does he find the LED to go hellbent with Infernal Tutor.
In game 2 I keep Brainstorm FoW and Twincast and he starts with Duress. I Brainstorm Twincast and FoW on top and when I Twincast his second Duress it becomes obvious that he won't win this game unless for a series of topdecks on his side. He doesn't do so and at some point I simply show a hand of Command, 2 FoW and enough pitchcards and he concedes.
In game 3 he mulligands and keeps six cards. I simply keep my seven without any disruption, but with a lot of cantrips as he was likely going to have a Duress-effect anyway (he had shown both Duress and Thoughtseize in earlier games). The gamble pays off as he Duresses me and doesn't see anything relevant. I cantrip into FoW rather early and so I'm able to deal with his Xantid Swarm. When a Peek shows nothing but a single Ad Nauseam, I am sure to win and with another Swarm waiting for declare attackers I do so.
3-0
round 4: Mono-Red Goblins:
I lately seem to lose to goblins a lot and that didn't change... I win game 1 off FoW + Remand on like turn six, he wins game 2 of Lackey and in game 3 I seem to be in a good position thanks to a turn2 Repeal on his Vial but when he still goes for the turn 5 and has triple (yes, really) REB, I can't win.
3-1
round 5: FEB (seriously):
He starts with birds and Survival + Quirion Ranger, but makes the mistake of playing an island on turn three. This stops him from survivaling one more time and he can't get Phage for the kill right away, but deals only six with Akroma. The turn later I go off with three lands in play and Force for his Mana Leak with (nonlethal) damage on stack as Brain Freezing his library takes the Phage-trigger away from his Shifter.
in the second game he has one land and Quirion Ranger, then Wall of Roots (I FoW pitching Brain Freeze, he FoWs back), then Survival but no other creatures. I expect a lot of counters but also a lot of time. At some point he has an Enlightened Tutor for Arcane Lab, but I have my other Brain Freeze ready. I walk a Cunning Wish into a Mana Leak to draw a counter and at some point he gets a Shifter into play. I walk another Cunning Wish into another Mana Leak, untap and go for the combo as he's tapped out. After playing like ten spells, he asks me if I have the Brain Freeze (his Shifter was already bounced) and I go on to combo, maka a lot of mana and talk him into conceding with the Flash for my whole library. He concedes and proceeds to get angry with himself when I tell him that I didn't have any winoption left as I always board one Wish out when on the draw against other combodecks.
4-1
round 6: Baseruption (Loam and Mox Diamond instead of Chome Mox)
This is unfortunately a rather short story. He lands turn two Confidant in game and turn three Confidant in game 2 (I had a FoW for his turn 2 Confidant) and they kill me by drawing a mix of disruption and beats. Especially his Vendilion Cliques were rather annoying.
4-2
round 7: NQG/w.
A massacre (but not the way you'd expect). In game 1 he starts with Mongoose and Goyf and I kill him in response to a Ponder on turn six or so.
In game 2 he has turn 2 and 3 Counterbalance but I ignore them. He plays a Werebear that deals six damage over six turns and then goes for Top. In response I play Brainstorm and he shows me Gaddock Teeg on top (one Fetchland in play). He decides to let my Brainstorm resolve and I play High Tide. He lets that resolve as well and I proceed to combo aroud his virtual Chalice/2. At some point I Repeal one of his Balances and Command the other and the rest is easy.
5-2
Not a great result but I can live with it.
Legacy Kempten: 22 players (7 rounds of swiss (they always do that), 45 minute rounds):
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round 1: Merfolk.
He doesn't know what I play and keeps a slow hand with Merrow Reejerey as his first play. I have a Remand and combo through 3 FoW on turn seven.
In g2 he starts with a lord and then Thorn of Amethyst. I have to go off with High Tide, Reset, some spells, then Wish-> Echoing Truth on four lands but then lack one mana for Brain Freezing myself and I don't find another untap. He shows the Gaea's Blessing that I wouldn't have cared for with that mana.
Because of the very long second game (try comboing under Thorn: it is hard) we don't even get to start game 3 and have a draw.
0-0-1
round 2: Landstill
Pretty much the bye that it should be. I win game 1 uncontested and his 11 sideboardcards aren't all that threatening as Angel's Grace doesn't do anything (he thought it helps against Tendrils). He lands two Meddling Mages but Peek shows that my Echoing Truth will resolve and I finish him off.
1-0-1
round 3: NQG/w
He starts game 1 with Ponder, then CB, then Top. At some point I go for Cunning Wish when he is tapped out and he counters it at random with a Rhox War Monk). I am desperate to run a few testspells but he always has the right card ready on top including a second cmc1 card when putting his Top on top would still have cost him the game.
In game 2 he has Top + CB again but can't stop me from playing a Wipe Away for the win (he had Needled Delta while I had two Flooded Strand as lands 2 and 3).
In game three he has another Counterbalance but at least no Top. When he finds it after some turns of Mongoose-beatdown for 1, I try to FoW and he reveals FoW on top (at random). I go for it in response to Top and after using his only Fetchland he reveals cmc0 and I win.
2-0-1
round 4: Dreadstill
Game 1 starts with him playing an early Dreadnought with double FoW-backup. I manage to get a lethal Brain Freeze on turn 5 pust that but unfortunately my backup FoW can't deal with his Trickbind.
In game 2 he lands an early Standstill and I have to break it because of a lack of lands. Luckily I Brainstorm into three lands. When he has another Standstill I gladly use the chance to get up two 7 lands in play without having to fear CB or Nought. After some turns of him hitting with a Factory I play an Opt and wait for him to discard. The turn later he plays CB and I go off in response. He decides to go for my carddraw, but he misannounces his mana so he doesn't have red mana floating after Brainstorming into REB which means that I just so manage to win past three counters where the fourth would have killed me. The timeout is called and I have another draw.
2-0-2
round 5: Thrash
He has a 1/2 Goyf as only source of damage and I get up to 10 lands in play (and another one in hand) unfortunately without finding a Brainstorm or Flash of Insight. When I go for it he can counter twice and that is enough as I only have two drawspells.
In game 2 he gets to Stifle a landdrop and Red Blasts/ Spell Snares/ Dazes all my tries to find a third land while a Mongoose tries to kill me. I do find land just in time but only have one Meditate and one Twincast while I know from Peek that he holds FoW and Spell Snare resulting in my loss for the day.
2-1-2
round 6: B-G-w Survival
A bit harder than you'd expect. In game one he Duresses me on turn one taking my High Tide and then killing me via some guys before I find another one. In game 2 he does nothing except playing an early Gaddock Teeg. On seven life I go of putting three Meditate on the stack to play aroung Extirpate. He Chants me in response and I take six manaburn. Luckily the 12 card included another Tide so I could easily go off again.
In game 3 he Duresses me on turn 2 but I have Brainstorm ready. on my turn 3 I play Cunning Wish-> Stroke and on turn five I play High Tide, Reset, Stroke for 13. two turns later he is dead.
3-1-2
round 7: dredge
A really hard matchup for the last match but it should include the best game that I had all day. In game 1 I keep a hand of 2 Tide, 2 Reset, Meditate and Opt. He is on the play and starts with Putrid Imp, I draw Remand and Opt into a second land. On his turn 2 he has a Careful study that doesn't show anything relevant and I topdeck the third Tide. When he goes for the throat with a Breakthrough on turn three I decide that I can't wait any longer and go off in response (2 lands in play):
High Tide, Reset, High Tide, High Tide, Reset, Meditate (draw Peek, Brainstorm, land, Turnabout), Peek (draw land), Brainstorm (draw Command, Land, Wish, put two lands back), play Turnabout (1 floating, 8 open). Now I couldn't play Wish for Mystical, Remand the Breakthrough and Brain Freeze him as he hadn't attacked yet and would simply kill me. I also couldn't use the Command to draw that card as I didn't have enough mana. As he had a Therapy that he hadn't used (he wanted to keep his Putrid Imp), my only hope was that he wouldn't dredge a Moeba, attack me and then flashbakc his Therapy and in fact it worked out. He dredged two Bridges and a second Therapy but decided to attack before using them so I could Wish -> Mystical -> Brain Freeze, Remand his Therapy and Brain Freeze him to death.
My first turn-2-kill with Solidarity was done.
In game 2 he has another Putrid Imp. I do have the FoW but can't stop his Breakthrough and the following Coliseum finishes me off.
In game 3 we don't have much time left so we hurry and get into the turns. He gets some dredgers only but at some point has them all in hand with 8 tokens (I am on 17) in play. He attacks me for one and the turn after that, I have to go off. I play High Tide, reset, Meditate but don't find any spells but a single Echoing Truth that clears the board. Without any dredgers he can't find another source of damage in the next two turns and we would draw. as he is a teammate standing 4-2, I concede so he finishes third place but the match by itself would have been a draw.
3-1-3
An extremly strange result but with the usual 50-minute rounds it would likely have been either 5-2 or 4-3.
Summary: I lost three matches, one of them to extremly bad draw against NQG/r which is not that bad of a matchup, one match against Goblins with disruption and one match against Dark Confidant. And Dark Confidant is exactly the topic that I wanted to talk about. This leads me to my question for today: is there any viable solution for cheap creatures aside from Force of Will? I don't know any. I'm currently thinking of Dark Confidant and Goblin Lackey primarily and of Xantid Swarm, Gaddock Teeg, Ethersworn Canonist, Glowrider and Meddling Mage (in no particular order) secondarily and there might be more that I have forgotten.
About Cryptic Command because that came up:
Testing and gut feeling combined show that a number of roughly 1.5 would be perfect for the deck. Unfortunately you can only play a natural number meaning that both one or two are viable. Currently I'm still leaning to two.
and one more thing: I really like the one sideboarded Repeal as you can use it as fake Wipe Away against CB while it can be boarded against any deck that has a target. Unfortunately it doesn't answer Gaddock Teeg and Thorn of Amethyst very well but I like it against any deck with discard as it buys time without losing a card which generally favours us. Not the perfect solution but I like 2 Wipe away, 1 Repeal way more than I like 3 Wipe Away.
- Van
@Match vs. Dreadstill: If you were holding a Remand in hand, you know you can Remand your Brain Freeze after a Trickbind "stifles" your storm right? It's because the real copy is still on the stack if the storm fizzles.
I've emphasized this before. Confidant is fucking terrible when it lands against you turn 2. You basically need to have an answer right then, or you need to win like 2 turns later max. Otherwise the opponent will overwhelm you with hate. I can think of exactly one blue answer to creatures, which is prettty much mediocre at best: Force Spike. I belive it has been tested before, and it seems like a pretty decent answer against Goblins and Thresh at the same time.
You could splash to white for StP, but this is probably crap. You'll die to Goblins just as hard.
I've been running 1 Cryptic Command. My reasoning is that I simply don't want to see them in multiples or in combination with other slow cards like FoI and Wish.
Comboing under Thorn is hard indeed, but pretty doable nontheless. It's similar to Trinisphere.
I'm starting to wonder if Solidarity can afford just to run 1 Plains, 3 Tundras for inclusion of Chants MD and STP in the side. We risk Wasteland and Stifles, but the latter is much easier to play against now. Stifle has changed the way we grab lands, but many people are playing against it and it has lost some popularity. Wasteland is a problem, but we can fetch a Plains if we're that scared (I would not recommend it) but I think that 4 Chant MD would give the deck a much better chance to fight through some hate.
Imagine the situation where you go. Land, Pass, Land, Chant, Land, combo off.
I haven't tested out the list yet but it seems that to fight through hate, you have to do what ANT does, with a combination of Duress + Chant. For Solidarity, we cannot afford 3 colors, but maybe UW is good.
Well, chant doesn't help against CB, and in your example you lose a potential answer to a counter in the place of chant. Chant would be better as an answer to combo than anything else IMO. It also isn't very good maindeck, because it doesn't do anything midcombo. I suppose you already knew that, but this combined with wasteland vulnerability seems enough to forget the card.Quote:
Originally Posted by crz87
Out of the above mentioned Piracy Charms answers 4. It has some very doubtful discard-ability, but it might be helpful if the opponent is holding counters/stifles only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Phanel
I'm not a Solidarity player, and feel free to trash me on this, but what about threads of disloyalty ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Phanel
The effect of the last four mentioned creatures are still active - but the first three main ones are dealt with (and two of them might actively help you).
Also, even if it doesn't deal with the last four effects, it still means you can use these creatures as blockers - meaning you can simply use them as cannon fodder if your opponent attacks you (also while gaining tempo by stopping an attack). And if your opponent isn't attacking you... then you're the deck with inevitability, right ?
Finally, the random "oops i just stole your goyf/naught" is always three fourths of a GG, either by direct attacking power or simple defense/time earned to set up the combo.
So yeah, it's not an instant whatever (basically only means you won't be using it mid-combo, which you wouldn't have been able to do against any of the aforementioned lock pieces except MM anyway), but apart from that, it actually seems like not such a bad idea at all.
I'm thinking on testing 3 MD repeals as a solution to the actual metagame: against counterbalance is cc3, so is dificult to counter, and it solves any permanent problem or is a tempo boost like remand: you can gain a turn bouncing a goyf, Lackey, Terrevore or dark confidant or you can bounce thorn, trinisphere, cannonist, chalice at 2 (lame that at 1 is unplayable) and in mid combo is almost never a dead card (is a expensive cantrip, but at least is not dead... if it is dead, you won't be comboing anyway...).
Maybe is because I like the control-combo feel this deck has (that's the reason I love remand in this deck and I play 4 of them). I see repeal as a pseudo-remand for the modern times.
I'm pretty sure Gearheart was messing around with a red splash way back when. Red gives access to Starstorm, Sudden Shock, Rack and Ruin, and even REB, to deal with Counterbalance. The drawback of the splash, is ofcourse, more stifle and wasteland vulnerability.
I won't be splashing anytime soon. Currently, there are so many decks that pack a mana denial plan, I really don't want to walk into that.
I'm still so unsure on the viability of running non-instant cards in the mainboard. Threads is a very powerfull card indeed, but boarding it it will undoubtly decrease our combo potential.
The reason for that was, however, not Counterbalance but Meddling Mage. This does no longer describe the current metagame.Quote:
Originally Posted by marit
Vs Counterbalance the most effective solution is probably Krosan Grip.
Yes, but so do Wipe Away, Echoing Truth, Blue Blast, Divert, etc. It doesn't really matter those are instants when you are midcombo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahamuth
About a splash: You are already running fetchlands, it's possible to add 1 Trop (or other U dual) to the Sb along with the card you want to splash for. Like Grip. In MU's you want Grip, you usually don't face Wasteland, except for Dreadstill. It's not very uncommon for ANT decks.
Of course. Unfortunately I didn't have a Remand or enough mana to combo on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus-God
@Bahamuth: Actually this is very true. I have to admit that I fear Confidant way more than I fear CB, simply because CB doesn't put us on a clock.
@ParkerLewis: I thought about Threads of Disloyalty, but actually three mana is too much as a single hit of Lackey is enough and decks with Confidant tend to play Daze as well.
@matelml: Wipe Away and Echoing Truth can still bounce a Thorn of Amethyst, Trinisphere, Meddling Mage or whatever some spells into the combo, so the comparison isn't quite viable. If Threads would cost two mana, I would consider it, but three? Impossible.
About Grip: to be honest I don't care about Counterbalance anymore (aside from the current bounce arsenal which helps very much). It might be a matter of playstyle but I haven't lost a match to CB in ages (games yes, but rarely two in a row).
- Van
PS: Yay working internet.
PPS: Has anybody got a foil Polluted Delta or a foil Rebuild for trade or sale? These are my last missing foils for the deck.
Yeah, I'm in the same boat now too (currently using a camus connection).Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Phanel
I know I might be off topic at this point, but I wanted to respond to a comment made 2 days ago in regard to our Twincast/Cryptic Command discussion:
Not according to: http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=24037Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus-God
This appears to be the common build now. I like Van's iteration that cuts it down to 60 cards (-1 Remand). If I can get my hand on the CCs I'll be running it that way.
You know. That's not David Gearhart. It's David Gerhardt. That tournament has been helt in Vorarlberg, a city in Austria.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyCallMeTim
If I missed any irony, nvm.
/Edit: Schneller! :P
Gerhardt =/= GearhartQuote:
Originally Posted by TheyCallMeTim
Vorarlberg is located in Austria and I bet Gearhart didn't play a tournament there.
Actually I'm pretty sure that playing 3 Remand is the correct number. It is slow against some decks, especially Threshold and combo but good to great against everything else.
I think we dont have to worry about goblin lakey.
I mean yes sometimes they have the quick combo start but even thene you could race them. Preboard they play 0!!! disruption and postboard some Pyrpblasts. Goblins are realy close to goldfishing!
And Austria rulez!
Pongify, then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Phanel
Actually, isn't that simply the perfect card for what you need to do ? Creature destroyed end of story, for U. Holy shit, it's even an instant. It won't get any better than this.
Piracy Charm is strictly better. You can even let them discard at instant speed if you don't have a target which is a nice effect against aggro control running Confidants.Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkerLewis
How is not dealing with Meddling Mage, Teeg, Canonist, Dreadnaught, Goyf, or anything else that has more than 1 toughness, strictly better ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shugyosha
(Hint : it's not)
Or did you mean strictly inferior ? Because that I can get on board with, although you also could have mentioned mudhole (classic). Or squire (ditto).