Does combo really run Duress over Thoughtseize?
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Does combo really run Duress over Thoughtseize?
I was hoping to avoid all of that, actually. The wind in my sails is really low right now because I'm really getting tired of Counter/Top aggro control lemmings running around everywhere. I understand that it's clearly the best archtype right now but this stagnant environment is....yaaawwwnn...boring. I did some scouting after beating down Dreadstill in round one and saw tops, trops, and goyfs at every table. Despite my desire to just pack up and go home, I smirked disdainfully when I heard time called. It was really my pleasure to hear whining from those lemmings who were caught in the mirror match.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
Here's the list:
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Kird Ape
4x Wild Nactal
4x Watchwolf
2x Figure of Destiny
2x Woolly Thoctar
2x Gaddock Teeg
4x Rancor
1x Swords to Plowshares
3x Lightning Helix
4x Lighting Bolt
4x Chain Lightning
2x Cursed Scroll
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Windswept Heath
3x Taiga
3x Plateau
3x Savannah
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Forest
Sideboard
3x Swords to Plowshares
4x Relic of Progenitus
2x Gaddock Teeg
2x Ancient Grudge
3x Krosan Grip
1x Tormods Crypt
Comments on the matchups:
Round 1 VS Dreadstill. I have no respect for that deck. Once in a while they get turn 2 stifle/nought...who cares. Either they mange to stall my tempo or they die. This time the latter was the case.
Round 2. Since Chris and I began the tradition of IDing if we meet in the swiss one of us ends up winning the event...the tradition continues as we ID'ed and he won the byes.
Round 3 Vs ITF. In game one I have to mull to get a hand with a one drop...yikes. Neither of my guys stick and I scoop to counter/top. I misidentify the deck as Team America and leave relics in the side. Academy Ruins recurring EE and Counterbalance pwn my face in game 2 after ITF stabilizes at 7 life. 1-1-1 sux btw.
Round 4 vs R/b Vial Goblins. I have to win this to make top 8 and I'm very very glad to see something thats not packin counter top...especially gobbos. You all know how this goes. I kill everything relevant and my critters are fatter than his. He did, however, manage to steal a game from me with stupid warrens weirdings.
Top 8 vs ITF. This time I know it's ITF before we even begin and I confidently tell him it's time for some retribution. Rolling a 12 on two d6's was a good start. Nacatls, Apes and Lightning hit hard and fast in game one. In game 2 he mulls to 5 on the play...ouch. One cat drops, two cats, he casts Deed on 3 land and I promptly Grip it EOT. Cats FTW.
Top 4 VS Landstill. Game one he's got recurring EE online by turn 3 and he's smart enough to counter my lightning. Game 2 I win on sheer speed and 2 bolts to the face before he can resolve the Pulse of the Fields he just got from FoF. Game 3 Humility makes me cry and then Elspeth makes it indestuctible two turns before I topdeck a Grip. I have him down to 6 when he gets Pulse off Fact or Fiction again. :cry:
Changes I'd make:
1) Teeg in the main was lame. In the current environment, I'm almost sure I'd rather have Grip. Don't bother trying to tell me Teeg is good against EE. He get's StP'ed all day and they recur EE anyway.
2) Figure of Destiny was unimpressive and there's no chance that it'd ever be bigger than 4/4. I'd rather have Isamaru or just more land and another Thoctar.
3) Rancor was a non-issue all day because it just wasn't in any of my opening grips. When it did show up later I wished it was Lightning, Lavamancer, Emperor Crocodile, or Treetop Village...yes the last two are sarcasm.
4) Needle needs to be in the board. Turn off EE now. Nuff said?
With all the counter tops running rampent in your meta why not put in Vexing Shusher in side as a 3 or 4 of?
Because Shusher is not a long term solution. It suffers the same fate as Teeg by getting StPed and EEed into oblivion. Speaking of oblivion, UGW is running O-ring in the main now too. Anyway, I'm beginning to believe that counter/top is an epidemic. It's not just running rampant in my area. When the level of competition goes up, those who can, flock to the perceived best deck. At the GPT, nearly 50% of players had counter/top kickin. Yuck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank The Tank
I think the best answer to the current situation is to remain agressive as hell, diversify the casting costs, and make sure that each card in the deck is an independent threat. The deck could also really use something with evasion and/or haste.
I totally agree we need something with evasion, but I am not sure what to run that doesn't suck and drastically slow the deck down. Really the best option is River Boa. Island walk is basically evasion in this format. But River Boa sucks early on against basically anything with creatures. Its particularly bad against Goyf Sligh, Goblins and Affinity. Something with forestwalk could be good. Vine Dryad sucks in this deck but it has forestwalk and a CC of 3G so it avoids Counterbalance.
The more I think about it, River Boa would probably be the best creature in the evasion slot since it blocks everything Thresh has all day (except Enforcer if he is still run but I haven't seen it in a long fuckin time) and later on is unblockable. Kind of makes me want to put additional Jittes in, but that is a terrible plan, slowing the deck down even more is not the answer.
Amen! I've been preaching River Boa for the past two weeks or so. He just seems so good, he blocks almost anything cept Tombstalker and other pesky fliers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
And i mean yeah he can be StPed, but what creature can't ya know? I think it's worth the risk. And i think he would be a bomb against Gobbos. He just blocks, kills, and regenerates.
For an Aggro deck, isn't blocking supposed to be one of the least of your worries? River Boa being a regenerating blocker is a bad reason to run it in Zoo... It being an islandwalker, now that's a good reason.
You know what i mean. With red Thresh being the most popular at the moment(That's my opinion), just Bolting it won't do anything either. It just seems really good.
From the OPI've bolded the cards on my short list for bottom of this decks' critter effieciency scale. I guess I'd start there with 2-3 River Boas, but sheesh, it just seems weak. Mystic Enforcer would be nice if hitting threshold didn't take forever. I wish Skyknight Legionnaire or Hell's Thunder were just a little bit better. Hey! I have an idea! Lets splash blue for Counterbalance. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
Yeah those are indeed the weak links. Yeah he does seem weak, but i mean hey Rancor! :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by umbowta
And hell yeah, i mean... it'd be like CounterZoo or something. Revolutionizing every metagame, EVERYWHERE!
But yeah, i tried Hell's Thunder... it just belongs in burn.
Some interesting creatures from the search engine at wizards:
http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/inde...lter=Creatures
Boros Guildmage: A bear that does stuff.
Boggart Ram-Gang: 3/3 haste, wither for 3. May have potential, not sure if its better than additional Thoctars.
Radiant Kavu: Funny as hell, infinitely fog faeries and Tombstalkers. Probably danger of cool things. Could be a potential SB card.
Rip-Clan Crasher: RG for a 2/2 haste.
Selesneya Guildmage: Fucking amazing but way to mana intensive.
Spined Sliver: Interesting, a 2/2 for RG with bushido.
Horned Kavu: Also interesting but slows the deck down a lot.
Overall, when trying to fill out those extra slots, I don't think we are going to find any hidden gem creatures that are as good as card like Watchwolf and Goyf. Out of all of those cards I like Radiant Kavu and Spined Sliver, but I don't think either of them would make the cut. River Boa just annoys me, a 2/1 for 2 mana that regenerates is not what the deck needs, it requires mana to keep it alive and only swings for an unblockable 2 a turn :( It needs Goyf/Watchwolf #5 and 6 then it would be fucking sick and nasty!
I would just play a utility bear in those slots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
Gadook Teeg hurts just about every deck and still beats for two. Vexing Shusher works well against control and aggro control, or Ethersworn Canonist if you fear combo a lot.
Or if you just want a beater, play two more Wolly Thoctor or something.
Playing more than two Thoctar is stupid. People just think that this card called Wasteland doesn't exist or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
But yeah i know, River Boa is weak... Like i'm actually gonna try Hell's Thunder again to be honest. If they counter it, it comes back, and it flys. 3cc might be a problem, but hey that's what testing is for :smile:
Ya know...Ram Gang sounds pretty interesting...
Hes R/G R/G R/G right? Thats not TOO terrible....wither is nice....but he is burnable....anyone ever try him in a deck?
If you're gonna do it, I think you should try it like thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Loxodon Baileyarch
-3x Isamaru, Hound of Konda
-2x Goblin Legionnaire/Figure of Destiny
+1 Taiga
+1 Mountain
+1 Thoctar (for 3 total)
+2 Hell's Thunder
That takes it up to 23 land so you actually have some chance of unearthing the thunder while also helping resolve Thoctar and increasing resiliency to Wasteland. You also diversify the cc and maintain a high independent threat density with 21 creatures, 8 bolts, and 2 Scroll while running the best removal spell in the game alongside the best equipment in the game.
Adding lands and cutting threats makes me cry a little inside... So fuck that. I mean i tested him before and he was "ok".Quote:
Originally Posted by umbowta
I might just break down and try burn or something. Idk i make so many tweaks to my deck...
But yeah good call though on the edits. Something my friend mentioned to me yesterday for the sideboard was NullRod, at least in metagame, it PWNs. Everyone wins through CounterTop and Shackles and EE. It shuts off so much stuff. It hurts Jitte and Scroll, but Jitte is just a win more card, and they would both be sided out of course.
Thoughts?
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Kird Ape
4x Wild Nactal
4x Watchwolf
2x Woolly Thoctar
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Lightning Helix
4x Lighting Bolt
2x Chain Lightning
2x Cursed Scroll
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Counterbalance
4x Flooded Strand
4x Windswept Heath
3x Tropical Island
2x Taiga
2x Plateau
2x Savannah
1x Mountain
1x Plains
1x Forest
I think this list will literally break the format IN HALF!!!!!!!! COUNTERBALANCE ZOO!!!!! ROARRRRRRR!!!!!
But seriously, Hell's Thunder? I really want a creature to fill that spot, and I think the best option currently is Jotun Grunt. Well, run 1x Grunt. The other open spot can be 1x Path to Exhile/Chain Lightning. That is what I will be testing out. Until there is a better creature than Isamaru I will keep running it. If only Skyshroud Elite was better! Other notable creatures are Albino Troll and Achridian but, echo costs are not so hot in a deck like this, but I do like the regeneration of the Troll.
How about a singleton Duergar Hedge-Mage? Seems rather tech/awful/awesome? Any takers?
So, I encountered a domain zoo deck that rand swiftblades AND viashino slaughtermasters...it was extremely scary. I pretty much won by luck alone, otherwise the game would have been over pretty fast.
Has the idea of domain zoo with switfblades and slaughtermasters already been dismissed because it is too vulnerable to spot removal-heavy decks?
Domain Zoo is probably one of the most powerful versions. But the fact that a SINGLE Wasteland can fuck your day up, makes it unplayable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordel