New Competitive Eternal Format Coming

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Originally Posted by jrsthethird

Why black? You should mean blue....

CounterTop costs over $1300 to build from scratch.

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Meh, I don't think $1300 is accurate, I mean, it depends a lot on build, but the SCG Orlando list is under $1000 on ApathyHouse (close to 1000 though) There are still options though.

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

I think it's still true. Some cards have -started out- in Standard recently booking $50-$70. The boom hasn't just affected Legacy. Underground Seas and Tarmogoyfs aren't all that much more expensive than Jace the Mind Sculptors started out. And Forces cost less, actually.

While we're on the subject, how much would reprinting Force of Will actually wreck various formats?

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It would be bad in Standard for as long as Bloodbraid Elf is still legal. Two-for-one-ing yourself just to stop half of your opponent's two-for-one seems so weak.

I'm not sure how good it would be in Extended. It doesn't do that much to Zoo, so I'm not sure the various Thopter and Depths decks would want it in the main.

It would increase availability in Legacy and maybe drive down the price of Merfolk for newer players, or at least make it easier to build for most people.

Nobody plays Vintage anyway.

If they print it in a Core Set, it won't have any effect on Block. Counters tend to be generally weak in Limited, even in such a bomb-heavy Limited as triple M10. Counters were okay there, but even then Negate and Cancel were the best, but you didn't really want to be in blue unless you had Sleep.

I can't believe no one has asked this yet. (Or at least I haven't seen anyone ask this).


Why doesn't Wizards print a paper version of their on-line Masters Edition? Non-foils that are printed specifically for Eternal format players to buy, similar to From the Vault?

They would not be reprinting them since these cards would still be part of their original set, but players would have easier access to older staples like duals lands. This would promote Legacy growth since new players could buy these packs in hopes of getting cards for their legacy deck (and maybe Vintage).

Wizards makes these and makes money will also not having to break their reprint policy.

Everyone wins.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

I can't believe no one has asked this yet. (Or at least I haven't seen anyone ask this).


Why doesn't Wizards print a paper version of their on-line Masters Edition? Non-foils that are printed specifically for Eternal format players to buy, similar to From the Vault?

They would not be reprinting them since these cards would still be part of their original set, but players would have easier access to older staples like duals lands. This would promote Legacy growth since new players could buy these packs in hopes of getting cards for their legacy deck (and maybe Vintage).

Wizards makes these and makes money will also not having to break their reprint policy.

Everyone wins.

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Because Reserved List. The cards that people really want out of that (duals) wouldn't be there.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

I can't believe no one has asked this yet. (Or at least I haven't seen anyone ask this).


Why doesn't Wizards print a paper version of their on-line Masters Edition? Non-foils that are printed specifically for Eternal format players to buy, similar to From the Vault?

They would not be reprinting them since these cards would still be part of their original set, but players would have easier access to older staples like duals lands. This would promote Legacy growth since new players could buy these packs in hopes of getting cards for their legacy deck (and maybe Vintage).

Wizards makes these and makes money will also not having to break their reprint policy.

Everyone wins.

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Basically what you are proposing is in fact a form of reprint.

Anything that prints old cards in newer form is in fact a reprint. The only way that they could get around the reprint policy right now, is one of two ways:

A.) They have several hundred copies of every card that people want to get that happens to be on the reserved list sitting around somewhere at Wizards of the Coast Headquarters, and they drop those cards into a new sets Booster Packs.

Or...

B.) They go onto Ebay or other Secondary Market Distributors of Cards and Buy up previously owned copies of cards on the Reserved List and then drop those cards into Booster Packs for a new set.

Either option is EXACTLY what probably happened during the Zendikar "Priceless Treasures" shenanigance(sp?).

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Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies

Because Reserved List. The cards that people really want out of that (duals) wouldn't be there.

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These wouldn't be reprints: they would not be part of a new set and they would not be legal in Standard, Extended, etc. Just Eternal legal packs. That's it. It would be no different than if Wizards started print of older pack sets like Tempest and Urza X.

The difference? They make money and make legacy more accessible while also proving they are not douches.

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Originally Posted by DalkonCledwin

Basically what you are proposing is in fact a form of reprint.

Anything that prints old cards in newer form is in fact a reprint.

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That's not what I am proposing. I am proposing they get the same exact prints they used for duals that they used for them way back 10+ years ago, print them, and then package them in packs that basically add more duals to the supply of current duals. They would not have the new boarders or anything of that sort: they would look exactly as they did when they were first printed.

They wouldn't be reprints, just adding more prints to the current supply. They do it in such a way that players now have a cheaper way to access the cards but also not over do it so the price drops.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

That's not what I am proposing. I am proposing they get the same exact prints they used for duals that they used for them way back 10+ years ago, print them, and then package them in packs that basically add more duals to the supply of current duals. They would not have the new boarders or anything of that sort: they would look exactly as they did when they were first printed.

They wouldn't be reprints, just adding more prints to the current supply. They do it in such a way that players now have a cheaper way to access the cards but also not over do it so the price drops.

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I think that is by definition a reprint.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

That's not what I am proposing. I am proposing they get the same exact prints they used for duals that they used for them way back 10+ years ago, print them, and then package them in packs that basically add more duals to the supply of current duals. They would not have the new boarders or anything of that sort: they would look exactly as they did when they were first printed.

They wouldn't be reprints, just adding more prints to the current supply. They do it in such a way that players now have a cheaper way to access the cards but also not over do it so the price drops.

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Originally Posted by lordofthepit

I think that is by definition a reprint.

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I lol'd.

@ Drago, he is right, that is, in essence what a reprint is. If they make more, they may not be changing frames or whatever, but they are still reprinting the cards.

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Originally Posted by xTrainx

I lol'd.

@ Drago, he is right, that is, in essence what a reprint is. If they make more, they may not be changing frames or whatever, but they are still reprinting the cards.

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I guess I misunderstood. When I was thinking reprint, I thought of something like Wrath of God in the numerous sets or Birds of Paradise. I didn't think simply printing more of the exact same card to be "reprinting" it.

Fuck you WotC for your stupid reprint policy stifling Legacy growth!

the definition of reprint taken from the mirrium webster dictionary is as follows:

Transitive Verb:
1: To print again : make a reprint of

Noun:
1: A reproduction of printed matter:
Examples:
a : A subsequent printing of a book already published that preserves the identical text of the previous printing
b : Offprint
c : Matter (as an article) that has appeared in print before

By this definition, if Wizards were to make a masters edition where in they were using the original printing sheets (if they still exist) to print things such as Dual Lands. These new print runs would in fact be a reprint as they are not from the original print run even though they utilize the original printing sheets to print them.

In fact in a way, these reprints could even be said to be officially sanctioned counterfeits of the originals, which in a way is what I think the reserved list is supposed to be insurance against.

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Originally Posted by DalkonCledwin

the definition of reprint taken from the mirrium webster dictionary is as follows:

Transitive Verb:
1: To print again : make a reprint of

Noun:
1: A reproduction of printed matter:
Examples:
a : A subsequent printing of a book already published that preserves the identical text of the previous printing
b : Offprint
c : Matter (as an article) that has appeared in print before

By this definition, if Wizards were to make a masters edition where in they were using the original printing sheets (if they still exist) to print things such as Dual Lands. These new print runs would in fact be a reprint as they are not from the original print run even though they utilize the original printing sheets to print them.

In fact in a way, these reprints could even be said to be officially sanctioned counterfeits of the originals, which in a way is what I think the reserved list is supposed to be insurance against.

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Originally Posted by Wizards' Reserve List Policy

The complete list of reserved cards appears at the end of this document. Reserved cards will never be printed again in a functionally identical form. A card is considered functionally identical to another card if it has the same card type, subtypes, abilities, mana cost, power, and toughness. No cards will be added to the reserved list in the future. No cards from the Mercadian Masques set and later sets will be reserved. In consideration of past commitments, however, no cards will be removed from this list. The exclusion of any particular card from the reserved list doesn't indicate that there are any plans to reprint that card.

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They don't actually say "reprinted", they say "printed".

Source

The point of them sticking to the reserve list is to prevent further copies from entering the market. They do not have many lying around their offices (definitely some, but not enough to make a dent in the market). This is why the 'priceless treasures' would work. Doing it on any massive scale would not be possible (hence, why there was one treasure every 720 packs, and only 1st print run).

The reserve list states that the cards will not be reprinted, in ANY form. Stop arguing about it, it's not gonna happen.

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Originally Posted by mchainmail

Meh, I don't think $1300 is accurate, I mean, it depends a lot on build, but the SCG Orlando list is under $1000 on ApathyHouse (close to 1000 though) There are still options though.

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Well...

4 FOW - $200
4 Goyf - $300
4 Hierarch - $80
4 Trop - $240

That's over $800 right there. add NO/Progenitus, the actual namesake combo, fetchlands, other duals, and you get pretty damn close.

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Originally Posted by MMogg

They don't actually say "reprinted", they say "printed".

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Dude...

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Originally Posted by Jak.

Dude...

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LOL, I know. But if we're going to have a pointless discussion on semantics, it might as well be an accurate one. :tongue:

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Originally Posted by jrsthethird

4 FOW - $200
4 Goyf - $300
4 Hierarch - $80
4 Trop - $240

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It is my favorite when people just pull prices out of thin air. the following are based off of what I see on ebay often and not the highest ones I could possibly find somewhere.

4 FOW - $160
4 Goyf - $250
4 Hierarch - $65
4 Trop - $200

hrmm...... $820 vs $675. a $145 difference seems like it could get a lot of NO / PRO and fetches to me.

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Originally Posted by MMogg

LOL, I know. But if we're going to have a pointless discussion on semantics, it might as well be an accurate one.

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Note, though, that the Reserved List, and your quote, are found within the Reprint Policy, not the Reserved List Policy.

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Originally Posted by quadibloc

Note, though, that the Reserved List, and your quote, are found within the Reprint Policy, not the Reserved List Policy.

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Still more semantics. How much clearer could the current policy be? Regardless which heading it's presented under, if you read the part I quoted, it's pretty transparent: no reserved cards will be printed, no cards will be added to the list nor removed. Pretty cut and dry.

Edit: I think the Reserved List/Reprint talk really needs to RIP. It's over. Done. Lost cause. Finito. 完了.

The new format idea was talked about in the Magic Show. For some reason Evan Erwin seemed too optimistic with the idea. He tried to explain why this would be a good idea but he then started talking nonsense about reprinting FoW and snow duals for the new format ... I guess he can always try and articulate a more logical opinion next week.

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Originally Posted by MMogg

They don't actually say "reprinted", they say "printed".

Source

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"We will not reprint anything on the reserved list again." is technically an identical statement to "Nothing on the reserved list will ever be printed again."

This is due to the fact that the technical definition of a reprint is to print something as a second or later edition printing. So technically beta cards were reprints of the alpha cards just as 10th edition cards are reprints of all previous versions of those cards.