Food Chain Combo

Hey all. I'm working on a Vintage version of this deck, but it has alot in common with the Legacy build, since I'm mostly unpowered. You can take a look here: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=44356

Obviously, some issues are not portable between formats. Wall of Roots, for example, is probably far more valuable in a format like Legacy where aggro is prevalent. Spell Pierce may not be as valuable without having to stop early wins with Tinker. Misdirection loses a lot of value if you are not trying to steal your opponent's Ancestral. Still, I have been building the deck in a very different direction from what you people are doing, and I think it's worth discussing.

The one card I've come across as a very real option -- that I havn't seen people discuss as a wincon with Griffin -- is Omnath. He goes infinite when you combo out, and he's pretty sexy with all your mana dorks until you do. Any one tried him out?

Well, just got back from being completely destroyed 0-4 at a tournament. Mind you I'm still new to legacy, but still this was a major disappointment.

I lost first to Maverick. I won the same match up last week so not terribly concerned. The deck can beat Maverick but can obviously also lose. I then lost to reanimator. I ran 4 Tormod's Crypt as my SB hate and will be changing those to Surgical Extraction which has more synergy with griffins. As it was, I lost twice to Iona naming blue effectively leaving me dead in the water.

Third game I lost to Merfolk. Was my first time playing against this deck which might have something to do with it. Fourth game I lost to the same slivers deck that got me last time. I played WAY too haphazardly in g2 having lost g1. I allowed him to play first a Phyrexian Revoker and then an Ethersworn Canonist when I could have countered both because I was sitting with a Hurkyl's Recall in hand. I didn't factor in the Canonists ability and so when I was finally ready to go off I end-of-his-turn Hurkyl's Recall'd only for him to Spell Pierce it, and leaving my 2 Force of Wills dead in my hand due to the 1-spell-per-turn effect.

I'm going to try the Empath/Æthersnipe/Griselbrand formula next week and see how I do. Can only be an improvement.

After playing in a small local tournament this last weekend, I changed my list up to the following:

4 Food Chain
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 AEthersnipe
2 Intuition
2 Gitaxian Probe
3 Fierce Empath
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Tropical Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Daze
2 Ancient Tomb
5 Island
1 Forest
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Griselbrand
2 Wall of Roots
3 Mulldrifter
1 Living Wish
SB: 1 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
SB: 1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Gilded Drake
SB: 1 Acidic Slime
SB: 1 Misthollow Griffin
SB: 1 Griselbrand
SB: 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

What I actually played was very similar with three or four cards having been changed.

The Acidic Slime or some other form of land destruction in the sideboard is going to be a must. The biggest lesson learned was that this deck needs to have an answer to Karakas. Wasteland in the maindeck might be better (and then possibly Life from the Loam in the sideboard?) if Living Wish is to be cut. Or Faultgrinder, which is a potential Fierce Empath target, in the sideboard and either a Taiga or Volcanic Island in the mainboard to support it. Or, if being awesome is your cup of tea (you are in the Food Chain thread, after all), perhaps try: Goblin Settler, Ogre Arsonist, or Ravaging Horde.

Also, I was really pleased with how the creatures blocked. Wall of Roots was great and Mulldrifter and Misthollow Griffins did a good amount of work, too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skogre

The Acidic Slime or some other form of land destruction in the sideboard is going to be a must. The biggest lesson learned was that this deck needs to have an answer to Karakas. ...

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Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre might fit better since it's also a must-answer card, and Fierce Empath can fetch it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skogre

After playing in a small local tournament this last weekend, I changed my list up to the following:

4 Food Chain
3 Misthollow Griffin
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 AEthersnipe
2 Intuition
2 Gitaxian Probe
3 Fierce Empath
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
3 Tropical Island
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Daze
2 Ancient Tomb
5 Island
1 Forest
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Force of Will
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Griselbrand
2 Wall of Roots
3 Mulldrifter
1 Living Wish
SB: 1 Maga, Traitor to Mortals
SB: 1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Gilded Drake
SB: 1 Acidic Slime
SB: 1 Misthollow Griffin
SB: 1 Griselbrand
SB: 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

What I actually played was very similar with three or four cards having been changed.

The Acidic Slime or some other form of land destruction in the sideboard is going to be a must. The biggest lesson learned was that this deck needs to have an answer to Karakas. Wasteland in the maindeck might be better (and then possibly Life from the Loam in the sideboard?) if Living Wish is to be cut. Or Faultgrinder, which is a potential Fierce Empath target, in the sideboard and either a Taiga or Volcanic Island in the mainboard to support it. Or, if being awesome is your cup of tea (you are in the Food Chain thread, after all), perhaps try: Goblin Settler, Ogre Arsonist, or Ravaging Horde.

Also, I was really pleased with how the creatures blocked. Wall of Roots was great and Mulldrifter and Misthollow Griffins did a good amount of work, too.

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Heya Skogre. Nice to get some more experiences here. How did you do at your tourney?

One comment on you thoughts for the need for an answer to Karakas. I don't understand why you're that worried about it. Is it because Karakas bounces your legends? Or is it due to Mangara of Corondor etc being bounced? Because (unless I've misread your list) you only have Emrakul and Griselbrand that Karakas can hit.

Griselbrand: If you get Griselbrand into play going infinite then Karakas doesn't matter as you can just recast him once he gets bounced. If not and your opponent has a Karaks on the board then the following happens: He activates it. You respond by activating Griselbrand drawing 7 cards. If you don't get what you need (1 Misthollow Griffin and 1 Empath or Emrakul) you can draw another 7. That's 14 cards that need to find you 1 Griffin and preferably 1 more card. That's quite likely to happen. I can see that it's a problem if you this plays out late in the game with you on a low life total but by then you'll hopefully have gone infinite.

Emrakul: If you get Emrakul into play then 9/10 times it's from going infinite. In that case you will win regardless of Karakas as you are getting an extra turn from casting him from your hand. Since you went off you have infinite mana in your pool so you can even just cast him right away once more and your opponent is sitting with a tapped Karakas. Take your first of two extra turns and attack with Emmy -> win.

I'd be hard pressed to find space for land destruction in my deck list. Am I missing something about Karakas? :)

I finished 2-1-1.

Round 1: Maverick - lost in 3.
In game one, I had a strong draw and was able to combo out easily through a Thalia, which does very little to this deck. In game two, I took a mulligan to five and was unable to beat his aggressive board, which included a Qasali Pridemage. In game three, my opponent was able to establish a Mother of Runes, two Qasali Pridemage, a Karakas, and a Scryb Ranger on the battlefield. Basically, I was unable to do anything to this. After playing the match, I feel like you have to counter the Pridemage and Green Sun's Zenith for two to win. The rest of the deck is not terribly problematic. Even Karakas bouncing Griselbrand or Emrakul is okay, so long as they don't have a strong board position yet.

Round 2: Mono-black Aggro/Pox - won in 3.
Lost game one after my opponent won the dice roll and was able to turn one Inquisition of Kozilek my Food Chain and turn two Hymn to Tourach me. In game 2, I was able to Force of Will an Inquisition of Kozilek and Daze a Hymn on the Following turn after playing Food Chain on my second turn. Game three was a bit more interesting. My opponent had an Abyssal Persecutor in play while I had a Griselbrand. Over a few turns, my life would jump between -6 and +4: never high enough to activate Griselbrand's ability. I landed a Jace, prevented my opponent drawing a sacrifice effect, and eventually beat him to death with Griselbrand and Misthollow Griffins. One of the best aspects of Misthollow Griffin in the deck is its resiliency to removal and combat damage with a Food Chain in play. They also gain a pseudo-vigilance by attacking and then recasting in the second main-phase.

Round 3: Robots - won in 2.
I was able to counter my opponent's Cranial Platings and Etched Champions while effectively blocking with Wall of Roots, Mulldrifter, and Misthollow Griffin, which were great because they were able to block Signal Pests and Inkmoth Nexuses.

Round 4: Charbelcher - intentional draw.
My opponent and I wanted to get out early and so we split.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

One comment on you thoughts for the need for an answer to Karakas. I don't understand why you're that worried about it. Is it because Karakas bounces your legends? Or is it due to Mangara of Corondor etc being bounced? Because (unless I've misread your list) you only have Emrakul and Griselbrand that Karakas can hit.

I'd be hard pressed to find space for land destruction in my deck list. Am I missing something about Karakas? :)

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It's not all that problematic. I was, admittedly, overstating how aggravating it was for me. If you cast the Emrakul, it'll bounce it and then you'll just cast it again the next turn and take another turn, so, yes, it's not that troublesome in this scenario. Where it became problematic was when my opponent had a strong board presence and I needed to have Griselbrand as a blocker to stabilize.

With that being said, I don't think it would be too problematic to switch out Acidic Slime for AEthersnipe in the sideboard (again, assuming you're running Living Wish), as it seems strictly better. If you're not playing Living Wish, it seems far less plausible, given it is not a legal Fierce Empath target.

Skorge,

How have you been liking the Intuitions and Gitaxian Probes?

One thing I see people try and cram into the deck is a lot of cantripping creatures, such as Wall of Blossoms and Raven Familiar... neither of which I have been a big fan of. My issue with Raven is that it's usually just a worse 3CMC Ponder, which is why I went for Jace at that point. Since I run Wall of Roots (>Blossoms/Oracle), getting to four mana isn't hard.

I have thought about maybe 1-2 BoPs, as sometimes I'd like to have a creature on board to start chaining with Food Chain, but I don't see them filling that roll...

So far I have stuck with the list found in my article, even after some more testing. I have thought about Living Wish, but it feels a little slow, and even GSZ, which I don't think there are enough targets for... even if jamming in some other one ofs.

On the topic of Karakas - I have NEVER had an issue with Karakas. I just keep running out Emrakuls. If it's a Gris, then I just draw into the Emmy/Empath in response.

The times when there are a ton of hate bears on the field can be crushing, though. The JTMS has helped me with that, alongside the AEthersnipe. Beyond that, I don't have much for answers there... that's why I run 3 Submerge in the side, as hate bears are usually found in Maverick.

Anyone have any sweet revelations? There's also this thread on the topic of my article, with some discussion: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...e-Fate-and-Fun

Re metamet,

If i summarize, our deck needs :
1) to get a Food chain
2) to get a Fierce empath/Emrakul
3) to kill fast

If you don't put enough creatures in your deck, you'll expose you to fizzle because you won't be always able to chain creatures into Fierce empath/Emrakul.

You absolutely need to satisfy at the 1) condition because without Food chain you're almost ensured to lose.

For tutoring, you need Drift of phantasms, because it's an activated ability, hard to counter. I think Ponder is needed because Drift doesn't have any other interest than tutoring Food chain, it's like a dead creature in hand if you get it during the Chain so you can play maximum 2 Drifts I think. And 2 slots are not enough for tutor because without Food chain, the deck does'nt do anything.

For the 2) condition, you need to dig into your deck to find Fierce empath/Emrakul, Raven familiar/Court hussar can help, Court hussar is bad because without Griffin you won't have W to keep it on board if needed

Raven familiar can put your Ponder/BS ... non-creatures spells on bottom of your library during the creatures chain

For the 3) condition If you add to much mana dorks : Noble hierarch/Wall of roots, you'll expose to fizzle because getting a mana dork during chain combo has no utility

Problems i had with Wall of roots is, without a Food chain on board it does'nt serve to anything

It's the same with counterspells : Daze/FoW, getting it during combo has no utility and you expose you to fizzle

So, I'm arrived to that list :

4 Island
6 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Griselbrand
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Misthollow Griffin
4 Mulldrifter
4 Food Chain
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Drift of Phantasms
1 AEthersnipe
2 Manipulate Fate
4 Raven Familiar
4 Wall of Roots
2 Ponder
2 Fierce Empath
SB: 1 Eternal Witness
SB: 1 Sower of Temptation
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 2 Man-o'-War
SB: 3 Viridian Shaman
SB: 3 Dispel
SB: 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
SB: 1 Fierce Empath
SB: 1 Forest
SB: 1 Misdirection

I got :
2 Drift + 2 Ponder to ensure having Food chain : TUTOR
4 Mulldrifter + 4 Raven familiar + 2 Fierce empath : DIG, CHAINING
4 Birds + 4 Wall of roots : HAVING MANA TO KILL FAST
3 Griffin + 2 Manipulate fate : BENEFIT OF INFINITE MANA COMBO
1 Aethersnipe : WIN IF NO INFINITE MANA

And ... I'm just arrived to almost the same list than yours metamet :eek:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metamet

How have you been liking the Intuitions and Gitaxian Probes?

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I like Intuition because it's an instant speed tutor for Food Chain or any other spell you may need: e.g., Force of Will, Daze, Fierce Empath, Misthollow Griffin. It's almost always good.

Drift of Phantasms is good, too, but I prefer Intuition's flexibility. Perhaps the greatest reason to go with Drift of Phantasms over Intuition is that it cannot be countered by normal means (with the major exception being Stifle). On the downside, Drift of Phantasms has to be played at Sorcery speed and has very few targets. Also, the fact that it cannot be countered by normal means does not change the fact that if your opponent had a counterspell in turn that they won't just counter the Food Chain or Fierce Empath you just fetched.

So, long story short, I prefer Intuition.

I'm not sold on Gitaxian Probe yet. Information is always nice and it's like playing with 1 less card in the deck. It might be better as another Intuition or Wall of Roots or something else.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skogre

I like Intuition because it's an instant speed tutor for Food Chain or any other spell you may need: e.g., Force of Will, Daze, Fierce Empath, Misthollow Griffin. It's almost always good.

Drift of Phantasms is good, too, but I prefer Intuition's flexibility. Perhaps the greatest reason to go with Drift of Phantasms over Intuition is that it cannot be countered by normal means (with the major exception being Stifle). On the downside, Drift of Phantasms has to be played at Sorcery speed and has very few targets. Also, the fact that it cannot be countered by normal means does not change the fact that if your opponent had a counterspell in turn that they won't just counter the Food Chain or Fierce Empath you just fetched.

So, long story short, I prefer Intuition.

I'm not sold on Gitaxian Probe yet. Information is always nice and it's like playing with 1 less card in the deck. It might be better as another Intuition or Wall of Roots or something else.

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I just see one reason to play Drift of phantasms over Intuition :
If you cast your Intuition by targetting 3 Food chain, it resolves, you got 1 Food chain in hand plus 2 Food chain in graveyard. Then you cast Food Chain, he counters, you have now 3 Food chain in your graveyard.

With a Drift you would have just lost 1 Food chain.

On the Drift of phantasms targets, it has a lot :
You can target Food chain, Fierce empath, Raven familiar, Show and tell if you run a B-plan S&T ...

Hi guys,

After a couple of disappointing legacy nights with this deck I'm still tinkering with it. My latest idea, that I'm going to experiment with tonight, is to splash white and run 2 Enlightened Tutors. I really think this deck needs a tutor for Food Chain. I see some of you have been running with either Intuition or Drift of Phantasms as your "tutor" of choice. I don't presently own any Intuitions and the Drift just seems too slow (even though it is nice that it can't be countered).

So why Enlightened Tutor? Well, if it had been green or blue I think most decks would auto include a couple of copies of this card. Being white it threatens to disturb what is otherwise a solid mana base. I do, however, believe it will possible to make it work. Up until now this has been my mana base:

4x Misty Rainforest
2x Flooded Strand
4x Tropical Island
3x Island
3x Forest
2x Ancient Tomb

What I intend to do is replace 1 Tropical Island and 1 Island each with a Tundra. Those 2 Tundras along with my 4 mana dorks provide 6 white mana sources for 2 white cards.

I will have to see a) if this is going to cause significant mana problems in terms of having white mana when needed and b) how more vulnurable I'm going to be to Wastelands.

Okay, with that said I'd like to touch on what match ups pose problems and which pose less problems. I think this, and other threads focus a lot on the deck as a closed system and on goldfishing. We need to flesh out which decks cause us the most problems and what we can do to combat them :)

The match ups I have experience with:

Maverick:
Seems like a match up that can go either way, maybe with a slight advantage to Maverick. Swords to Plowshares shouldn't be too great of a problem, but with that said I've lost to a Maverick player swording my Noble Hierarch on the turn before I was about to go off effectively leading to me losing the game a couple of turns later. Of their hatebears Qasali Pridemage is by far the most troublesome but it seems to be their only answer to our combo. A Pithing Needle stops it, but missing out on that it can be tough having counter magic for both the Pridemage and Green Sun's Zenith.

Reanimator:
Being the volatile deck that it is it can always blow up and beat you with a turn 2 Iona or Griselbrand on the board. This match up seems heavily draw dependant and we stand a decent chance after sideboarding.

Storm:
Played against a storm deck yesterday for the first time and it did not go well. With Cabal Therapy, Duress and Gitaxian Probe even a hand with 2 Force of Wills + pitches is beaten. I don't own any Flusterstorm so wasn't able to side that in. Sided in 4x Surgical Extraction which should work well, but their hand disuption messed me up there as well. Would love to hear some tips from other people here.

Death and Taxes:
This seems a bit tough as do any deck that runs Æther Vials. Mangara of Corondor needs to be countered but this is impossible with the vial out, so really requires a needle. They can also run Ethersworn Canonist in their SB which really blows us up. I run 2x Wipe Away in my SB to answer this.

I can write some more match up experiences, but will leave it for now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

Maverick:
Seems like a match up that can go either way, maybe with a slight advantage to Maverick. Swords to Plowshares shouldn't be too great of a problem, but with that said I've lost to a Maverick player swording my Noble Hierarch on the turn before I was about to go off effectively leading to me losing the game a couple of turns later. Of their hatebears Qasali Pridemage is by far the most troublesome but it seems to be their only answer to our combo. A Pithing Needle stops it, but missing out on that it can be tough having counter magic for both the Pridemage and Green Sun's Zenith.

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I'm pretty sure that Pithing Needle does not stop the combo. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Food Chain's activated ability is a mana ability and can therefore continue to be activated. With that being said, if your opponent states "Food Chain" after resolving a Pithing Needle, do not alert him or her and only call a judge when you begin to combo out. Similarly, casting Stifle and attempting to target Food Chain or it's activated ability is illegal because mana sources are never actually placed on the stack. Furthermore, the Scourge version of the card explicitly states that mana sources cannot be countered (the judge promo does not, but how often do you see those?). Thus, if you activate Food Chain and your opponent casts Stifle, call a judge and expect them to bring the game back to its previous game-state where the opponent will have his or her Stifle in hand.

Again, if I'm wrong, please correct me.

For reference:

Quote:

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605.1a An activated ability is a mana ability if it meets three criteria: it doesn't have a target, it could put mana into a player's mana pool when it resolves, and it's not a loyalty ability.

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Quote:

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605.3b An activated mana ability doesn't go on the stack, so it can't be targeted, countered, or otherwise responded to. Rather, it resolves immediately after it is activated.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

Death and Taxes:
This seems a bit tough as do any deck that runs Æther Vials. Mangara of Corondor needs to be countered but this is impossible with the vial out, so really requires a needle. They can also run Ethersworn Canonist in their SB which really blows us up. I run 2x Wipe Away in my SB to answer this.

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I was thinking about this the other day. My initial thought was to include something in the sideboard that functions like an Infest, which is what a lot of decks play to deal with hate bears. The two cards that jump to mind for me are the recently printed Massacre Wurm and Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite; both of which are legal Fierce Empath targets.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skogre

I'm pretty sure that Pithing Needle does not stop the combo. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Food Chain's activated ability is a mana ability and can therefore continue to be activated. With that being said, if your opponent states "Food Chain" after resolving a Pithing Needle, do not alert him or her and only call a judge when you begin to combo out. Similarly, casting Stifle and attempting to target Food Chain or it's activated ability is illegal because mana sources are never actually placed on the stack. Furthermore, the Scourge version of the card explicitly states that mana sources cannot be countered (the judge promo does not, but how often do you see those?). Thus, if you activate Food Chain and your opponent casts Stifle, call a judge and expect them to bring the game back to its previous game-state where the opponent will have his or her Stifle in hand.

Again, if I'm wrong, please correct me.

For reference:

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Yep, you can be sure at 100% of that, Pithing Needle and Stifle don't do anything on Food chain because it's a mana ability. That's how I won a lot of games, my opponent sided in Pithing Needle and named Food chain, just say "ok" and combo for the win.

Food chain being a mana ability allows you to respond to Split second ability, it's written in the ability's text.

I think your ideas for the sideboard seem pretty good, especially Elesh Norn because it'll have an effect during all the rest of the game and not the wurm and it'll help your creatures too, attacking by the air with 5/5 Griffins or 3/4 Ravens, 4/4 Mulldrifters can be pretty amazing too ^^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skogre

I'm pretty sure that Pithing Needle does not stop the combo. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Food Chain's activated ability is a mana ability and can therefore continue to be activated. With that being said, if your opponent states "Food Chain" after resolving a Pithing Needle, do not alert him or her and only call a judge when you begin to combo out. Similarly, casting Stifle and attempting to target Food Chain or it's activated ability is illegal because mana sources are never actually placed on the stack. Furthermore, the Scourge version of the card explicitly states that mana sources cannot be countered (the judge promo does not, but how often do you see those?). Thus, if you activate Food Chain and your opponent casts Stifle, call a judge and expect them to bring the game back to its previous game-state where the opponent will have his or her Stifle in hand.

Again, if I'm wrong, please correct me.

For reference:

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Hey Skogre. When I mentinoned Pithing Needle it was actually on our side. To stop the Pridemage :)

I like the Elesh Norn idea. I might try that. It doesn't change the fact that we need a Food Chain on the board for it to happen. Infest doesn't but we don't have the mana for that.

The issue I find with most Empath targets that can fix the board (such as Elesh Norn) is that we typically need to be able to utilize Food Chain to make it happen... which may not be possible unless we're preemptive.

That's why AEthersnipe is there, as we can fetch it with Empath and then evoke it.

I'll keep brainstorming ideas for answers to these hatebears... I haven't played D&T yet, so Mangara hasn't been a problem. For Maverick, the Submerges and Jaces have been working just fine, alongside just being patient and minding their clock. You typically have a handful of turns before they get close to killing you.

A good lesson for this deck is: even though we can win within the first few turns, it's more important to clear the path in the later game than try and rush out fallible win. We can wait til we're at 2 life in order to take the game. Sculpt the hand. :)

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Originally Posted by metamet

The issue I find with most Empath targets that can fix the board (such as Elesh Norn) is that we typically need to be able to utilize Food Chain to make it happen... which may not be possible unless we're preemptive.

That's why AEthersnipe is there, as we can fetch it with Empath and then evoke it.

I'll keep brainstorming ideas for answers to these hatebears... I haven't played D&T yet, so Mangara hasn't been a problem. For Maverick, the Submerges and Jaces have been working just fine, alongside just being patient and minding their clock. You typically have a handful of turns before they get close to killing you.

A good lesson for this deck is: even though we can win within the first few turns, it's more important to clear the path in the later game than try and rush out fallible win. We can wait til we're at 2 life in order to take the game. Sculpt the hand. :)

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I agree with you metamet but if you increase the number of Empath-targets in the sideboard it means creatures with :6: or more CCM. That does mean that these are creatures uncastable without Food chain on board (I think to Elesh norn, how will you find :w: :w: without Food chain ?).

So you will increase your Food chain-dependency so you absolutely need to be able to get a Food chain and to have it on board without being countered.

For another Empath-target i thought to Cloudthresher, it permits to clean the board against Tempo Zoo by killing Delvers or against Esperblade by killing Lingering souls tokens. It has Flash, and it's a body : 7/7 Reach.

What do you think about Cloudthresher ?

I thought to Hornet queen or Deranged hermit to generate a huge amount of tokens too

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

Hey Skogre. When I mentinoned Pithing Needle it was actually on our side. To stop the Pridemage :)

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Sorry about that. My reading comprehension skills seem to be pretty low in the early morning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skogre

Sorry about that. My reading comprehension skills seem to be pretty low in the early morning.

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Hehe, I know the feeling :p

On another note I had a chance to test a slightly new deck list while playing with some friends.

My deck looked like this:

Creatures:
4x Misthollow Griffin
1x Emrakul, the Aeons torn
1x Griselbrand
1x Maga, Traitor to Mortals
2x Fierce Empath
1x Aethersnipe
3x Mulldrifter
3x Noble Hierarch
1x Birds of Paradise
1x Raven Familiar
2x Wall of Roots

Enchantments:
4x Food Chain
1x Sylvan Library

Instants:
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
2x Misdirection
4x Brainstorm
2x Enlightened Tutor

Sorceries:
2x Manipulate Fate

Lands:
3x Tropical Island
2x Tundra
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Flooded Strand
2x Ancient Tomb
3x Forest
2x Island

Sideboard:
3x Pithing Needle
4x Spell Pierce
4x Surgical Extraction
2x Moment's Peace
2x Wipe Away

As you can see I opted to splash for white in order to run 2x Enlightened Tutor. Concerns about my mana never materialized which was great. The tutors seemed okay. On a couple of occasions they got me my Food Chain and on a couple of other occasions they worked as shuffling tools while I had a Sylvan Library on the board. I will keep these in the deck.

I'm feeling more comfortable with this version of the deck. One thing, however, that I can't quite figure out is whether to keep in the 2x Wall of Roots and the 1 Raven Familiar. What I would like is to have some Ponders again. On occasion, the Raven Familiar has been very nice, but much often I end up using him with no Food Chain on the table simply because I need to dig for three cards. And in those cases I'd much rather just have a Ponder.

The Wall of Roots is a bit more ambiguous. On one occasion last night they worked the treat making me go off in turn-2. But, many other times I drew them when I had no Food Chain on the board or in hand and no particular need for a blocker. Again, here it would be more beneficial (I think) to get a cantrip. The Ponders also help shuffle the deck with the Sylvan.

So, to sum up I think I will take out these three creatures and put back in 3x Ponder.

Now, to the match up I had yesterday. I should say that it was just 5 friends playing, but we all play competitive legacy and as such had brought our decks. We had also shopped for a prize for the winner. For these reasons I think the results are worth mentioning.

Mono-Black Pox:
This seemed to be a fairly decent match up. Maybe slightly favourable for us. My Misdirections worked like a charm here and counter magic in general was very effective. The pox-player also didn't have an answer for Food Chain which meant that if I could drop a Food Chain on the board in turn 2 or 3 it often didn't matter if he then got me almost-locked down the following turn. He killed too slowly which meant I was able to get Griffins in to exile and that would normally win me the game even with no kill-shot card.

U/B Control:
Did well against this deck although it had the potential to be problematic because it ran with a lot of counter magic. The Standstill/Mishra's Factory was a bit of a hassle. Again, there was no real hate for the Food Chain which meant that once on the board I could just bide my time until I had the counter magic to protect going off.

BG Creature deck (don't know what it's called):
This deck played hand disruption and then Dark Confidants and Tarmogoyfs as well as some other creatures (Hypnotic Specter, Scavenging Ooze among others). I lost but made some silly SB decisions and we only played the one best-of-three. I'd like to try against it again as I think I could succeed. My losses came rather swiftly as a result of a resolved Dark Confidant in game 1. The only creature removal I run in main deck is the one Aethersnipe which I didn't get. He ended up just overwhelming me through all his extra draws. G2 I lost from heavy t1 hand disruption. He went Dark Ritual into an Inquisition of Kozilek and a Hymn to Tourach. I had kept a promising hand with no counter magic and was duly punished.