I like the list from the link, but is 3 Sigil too much?
Printable View
I like the list from the link, but is 3 Sigil too much?
While I haven't tested these lists yet (I'm still running the GWb build in the other enchantress thread), I've found Abeyance to be better than Orim's Chant (I've been testing them over Duress). Yes, it's an extra :1: (unkicked), but for :1:, you get to turn off Planeswalkers for a turn, and a MisD'd Abeyance (not a big concern at the moment, but in other metagames) doesn't stop you from playing enchantments. It also protects you from things like Cursed Scroll, Ratchet Bomb/Pernicious Deed, and Sneak Attack, and can effectively Time Walk someone reliant on Deathrite Shaman for mana without forcing you to turn off Replenish. In exchange, it becomes less useful against combo, but given our already-limited options against combo, it isn't too bad. Also, it cantrips, which is incredibly helpful in the midgame. Abeyance is less useful against Delver than Chant is, but in the more 'traditional' enchantress builds, Delver is a better matchup then it seems to be for this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
I haven't played in a few weeks (travels), but when I last left it neither Orim's Chant nor Abeyance seems strong enough for the slot. I've come to the conclusion that this deck will just roll over to some decks (like all others do) and it really shouldn't be diluted with instants or sorceries unless they are free.Quote:
Originally Posted by btm10
I was back on the Mindbreak Trap plan as it seems to be the best for combo. The thing is every combo deck is going to bring in permanent hate against us becuase of Confinement and Leyline. MBT is a good in-the-hand option to just sometimes get 'em.
I had also switched out Sigil for Emrakul to stop decking wins as we control weather or not to cast Rest in Peace. ...it also happens to be a final trump to control should the game progress to that point.
What's our best answer to an Emrakul attack? Sphere of Safety?
1. KarakasQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy
2. Sphere of Safety
Haven't bee playing as much lately, but my friend did send me this link to another 4 and 0 Helm-chant-rest.
Looks like Sterling Grove is a common denominator. That is not a surprise, but I do have to re-evaluate what I'm doing. Have any luck yourself Mr. Froggy?
I'm still practicing playing the deck, have yet to try myself in a daily..
I have come to the conclusion that Sterling Grove is a must for the deck, no questions asked. The versatility is just too strong.
Also, I'm thinking of changing the Sigil for something else as a win-con, suggestions?
The MTGO shuffler is rigged -_- Luck-sack after luck-sack after luck-sack...
The only problem is if your running Sterling what other Enchantment only win do you have? ...Sacred Mesa?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy
I have to come to love Sigil actually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
On a side note, I was testing on MTGO vs. Jund, and the guy said, "Why are people even trying to make Enchantress work anymore?" I was quite insulted. -_-
Mull to 4 vs U/B Reanimator, WIN.. I'm not sure how I pulled that off...
Man I love this deck!
So this is my first time posting on the source and I recently played this deck to a 6-3 finish at Grand Prix dc. I've played the deck a bunch at local tournaments usually doing pretty good before. This was the first time I played with the helm combo and I was really impressed with the speed and resilience of it. I goofed a bit with the sideboard (only 14 cards forgetting lignify ) the games I lost were either due too my opponent having it all or bad keeps/mulligans. So without further adu this is the list I piloted.
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Enchantress's Precense
4 Sterling Grove
4 Elephant Grass
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Rest in Peace
2 Runed Halo
2 Solitary Confinement
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Sigil of the Empty Thone
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Helm of Obedience
3 Windswept Heath
3 Serra's Sanctum
2 Savannah
1 Karakas
7 Forest
4 Plains
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Platinum Angel
2 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 City of Soilitude
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Aura of Silence
1 Karmic Justice
1 Wrath of God
1 Stony Silence in retrospect was a bad choice and was taken out after the tournament
Since then my list has changed a bit. I can post that and a tournament report if anyone is interested.
I would love to read a report. As well as to the changes and how they benefit the overall plan. I've stepped away from the game for the last month or so, reading a report my get me working on this again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim
Nice run.
-Freggle
Here's my tournament report from Grand Prix Washington D.C.
Round 1:
2-0 vs Dredge
I'm on the play so I fetch forest into growth. He goes draw discard Golgari Grave Troll. Immediately I'm grateful for this matchup. Next turn I go plains enchantress into Elephant Grass. I tell him what the card does and he immediately looks disappointed. He dredges a bit into nothing then I naturally draw the Rest in Peace and he scoops it up.
Sideboard
None I feel pretty confident in the matchup mainboard
We get lucky and win the round one deck check lottery (probably due to my 61 card maindeck and 14 card sideboard) no one has any problems with our decks and on to the second game
Game two I keep a sweet hand of turn one grass into turn two RIP he's on the play and goes LED into Faithless looting dredging two grave trolls. Luckily he hits no Narcomoebas or bridges, but I do see two of his Nature's Claims hit the yard and passes the turn. I draw play grass and pass. He dredges some more into a couple Narco's. I let grass die play savannah and drop RIP. He draws hits me for two with the Narco's and passes. I play a Sterling Grove followed by another RIP and he packs it in
Round 2:
2-1 vs Goblins
He wins the roll and ROFLstomps me with turn one lackey into Warren Instigator into multiple ringleaders
Sideboard:
+1 Wrath of God +1 Platinum Angel +1 Iona
-1 Sterling Grove -1 Green Sun's Zenith -1 Emrakul -1 Runed Halo
He keeps on his seven and I open a hand with no green mana so I ship it back. My six is pretty spicy with 2 Growths, Forest, Plains, RIP, Helm. I figure its better to hope to hit another land for the turn 3 or hope I survive till 4 with no disruption than mull down to five. Luckily he has a slow start with double vials while I curve Growth into RIP and a second growth into turn 3 win while he's durdling around with his vials.
Sideboard: same
He mulls down to five while I keep a good hand of Karakas, forest x 2, growth, enchantress, presence, sanctum. He goes fetch plateau into turn one vial while I play growth he doesn't have a second land but puts down another vial. I expect the lacky from vial but he's got nothing. I play karakas get an enchantress down while I draw another growth and play it out drawing Sigil. He vials in Thalia and passes. I bounce Thalia playing sanctum into presence and a grass. His turn he vials in Warchief pays to attack and swings in and vials Thalia in again. I let grass die bounce Thalia again draw into a Grove and play Sigil into Grove. On his turn he attempts to Wear//Tear my Sigil in response to a RIP and I remind him that I have Grove so he hits that instead. He drops some more gobs with Vials and hits me for a good amount. My turn I play Solitary and Grove then Hardcast Iona on White to shut down his Wear//Tear. He plays some more Goblins and I swing in next turn for game.
Round 3:
2-0 vs Burn
He starts things of with mountain go. So I think I'm against goblins again. I lay down forest into Growth. He EOT bolts me, untaps and plays Keldon Marauders. I play Enchantress into growth and pass. He plays Hellspark Elemental and swings with both I block the Marauders and take three. I play Sanctum then a Presence and go for Solitary with a RIP and another Presence in hand. He untaps plays a mountain and passes back. I play the Presence and the RIP drawing Helm. He passes the turn after no plays and I Helm him out.
Sideboard:
-1 Emrakul -1 Sigil of the Empty Throne -1 Green Sun's Zenith -1 Sterling Grove -1 Runed Halo
+2 Leyline of Sanctity +1 Iona +1 Seal of Primordium
He goes mountain into lava spike. I go Savannah into growth and pass. He puts a Pyrostatic Pillar down and passes. I look at it and sigh. I draw play a Presence and a forest. He plays a land and bolts me. I draw my one Runed Halo I have left in my deck and name Pillar, in response to it he bolts me. He draws plays a land and passes. I put down Confinement into a RIP and pass. He plays land and sends it back. I play some enchantments and naturally draw Helm for the win.
Round 4:
0-2 vs Reanimator
I keep a strong hand of double RIP and Helm with a Sanctum. He wins the die roll and goes fetch pass. I play land into Growth and pass back. He entombs Inkwell EOT and exhumes it on his turn. I play plains and attempt to RIP and it meets a Force pitching a Force. He crash's in plays a land and passes. I attempt my second RIP and it sticks play the Sanctum and pass back. He plays land and attacks and passes. At this point I feel its safe to go for Helm he has two cards and I have enough to pay for spell pierce and another turn before I die to Leviathan, he has the third Force and a blue card to shut me down and I draw land on the following turn.
Sideboard:
-1 Green Sun's Zenith -2 Sterling Grove -1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
+1 Platinum Angel +1 Iona +1 City of Solitude +1 Seal of Primordium
On the play I mull down to 6 cards and lead forest go. He goes Underground Sea into cantrip. My turn I attempt RIP and it meets a Force. He plays another cantrip and passes with one mana up. I play a forest into Enchantress and a Growth. He entombs Griselbrand EOT and reanimates it. I draw play land and play an Elephant Grass finding nothing but lands. We both continue to draw and play lands until he entombs for an Iona on white and I'm out of the game.
Round 5:
0-2 vs Shardless
Going into the round I'm a little on tilt for loosing to a good matchup. I win the die roll and go forest pass. He starts of with a Deathrite Shaman and passes it back to me. I pay out an Argothian Enchantress and end the turn. He has the turn 2 Liliana and makes me sac my creature. I draw and play an enchantress presence. He thoughtsiezes my Confinement plays a Shardless Agent into an Abrupt Decay on my presence. I draw nothing while he gets another deathrite a Goyf and a tar pit online.
Sideboard:
-1 Green Sun's Zenith -1 Runed Halo -1 Elephant Grass
+1 City of Solitude +1 Karmic Justice +1 Wrath of God
I have to mull down to 5 because of no land hands. He has every counterspell under the sun as I cant get anything to stick and he quickly gets there with Goyfs.
Round 6:
2-0 vs Lands
On the play I lead forest into Growth. He goes land into Exploration into Cabal Therapy naming Argothian Enchantress, which I have two of in hand. My turn two I go plains into a Presence and pass it back. He goes land into double Raven's Crime. My turn I sink a RIP and a Grove and pass it back. He draws plays a land and passes. I Play an Enchantress and cantrip with Growths. His turn he draws and slams an Engineered Explosives on two to send me back to the stone age. My turn I draw another RIP play it and draw Tutor. He plays another land and passes. I tutor on his end step for Helm and Helm him on my turn.
Sideboard:
-2 Elephant Grass -1 Sphere of Safety -1 Green Sun's Zenith
+1 Platinum Angel +1 Aura of Silence +1 Seal of Primordium
I keep a weakfish hand but I have Angel in it and I really wanted to test it out. He leads land into Exploration into Port and I immediately don't like where this is going. I play a land and growth it and pass it back. He plays a Dark Confidant and passes it back to me. I play a plains an Enchantress then Growth my plains. He attacks for 2 with his Dark Confidant and plays another Exploration and a Crucible of Worlds. I play a RIP and a Grove and pass it back. He attacks drops explosives for 2 and blows it. I draw and play a Presence. He drops an Oblivion Stone on his turn with enough mana to activate it. On my turn I draw Aura of Silence, cast it and attempt to blow up O stone which he cracks in response. I get down another Enchantress and some more growths while he plays more lands. I finally get enough mana to cast my Angel and he just sighs and says I don't have a way to beat that.
Round 7:
2-1 vs Elves
This match was mostly a blur as I hadn't eaten all day. I remember getting crushed game one with a board full of Green mana and enchantress's with only white spells in hand. The other two games I almost punted but his deck durdled enough on him and let me squeak out some wins, with the help of a well timed Wrath of God.
Round 8:
0-2 vs Canadian Thresh
I mull down to 4 game one and see no lands in any of my hands. He leads with Gitaxian Probe and I scoop in response.
Sideboard:
-1 Green Sun's Zenith -1 Sterling Grove
+1 City of Solitude
Game two is a repeat of game one except the first land I get gets Wastelanded and all of my enchantments get countered
Round 9:
2-0 vs ANT
Figuring I made it all this way I might as well play the last round. My opponent wins the die roll and spends the first few turns cantriping. I set up a Confinement with only one Enchantress in play and it draws me into a presence which lets me continue the lock on him until I draw Helm/RIP.
Sideboard:
-2 Sterling Grove -3 Elephant Grass -1 Sphere of Safety -1 Sigil of the Empty Throne -1Emrakul
+2 Iona +1 Platinum Angel +3 Mindbreak Trap +2 Leyline of Sanctity
My opening seven has Leyline into turn two Sterling grove. Snap keep. He mulls down to 5 cards. I put Leyline in play. On his turn one he Chain of Vapors it and uses a petal to Therapy it out of my hand. I play an enchantress and pass. He plays a land and starts cantriping for a few turns. I set up some more enchantments including a Runed Halo on Tendrils. I eventually sink Platinum angle and start crashing in. Until I naturally draw Helm RIP and get there.
All in all I really like the deck. I've made some slight changes to it and its running even better. I cut the second zenith as it kept clogging up my hand and was really bad when I already had my enchantress's out. The second savannah had no place in the deck so I ended up cutting it for the fourth Windswept Heath. The board is still in development but currently I added the Lignify back and cut the Stony Silence for the second Wrath of God. My current list is:
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Sterling Grove
4 Elephant Grass
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Rest in Peace
2 Solitary Confinement
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Runed Halo
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
2 Helm of Obedience
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Enlightened Tutor
7 Forest
4 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
3 Serra's Sanctum
1 Karakas
1 Savannah
Sideboard
2 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Platinum Angel
2 Wrath of God
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Karmic Justice
1 Lignify
1 Aura of Silence
1 Seal of Primordium
1 City of Solitude
Any questions or comments feel free to ask
Congrats and great report Crim!
I have a few questions regarding your list; I noticed that you're playing with a playset of Elephant Grass as well as Sterling Grove. Do you feel these cards/ quantities of them are essential to your win percentages? Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the grass, as I feel legacy right now isn't all that creature heavy and for those who are I feel that the Solitary Confinement and/or Sphere of Safety does the job. I feel that Sterling Grove is needed against Abrupt Decay, but is 4 essential? What are your matchups vs Storm or Show N Tell like?
Further more; I'm a little curious about your sideboard choices, what does Iona and Platinum Angel do for this deck? Same goes with the Lignify and Karmic Guide. Also, why did you chose to use only two copies of Leyline of Sanctity?
I echo Soviet's questions. This decks hardest match-ups are control and combo, and your choices seem intriguing to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim
As I suspected your report has got the wheels turning again. Our deck get beat from the hand (as opposed to the board) so I have been overhauling the list a bit to incorporate some tech that btm10 has been talking about over in the traditional enchantress thread. Discard.
I don't feel comfortable posting this experimental list as of yet, but (as of now) the main is relatively untouched, but the SB is completely overhauled. It's too early to tell, but being more aggressive is rarely a bad idea.
Furthermore, has anyone tested Gitaxian Probe or Manamorphose as thinners? These cards can possibly support a (loosely used here) "transformational board." i.e. get more value out of non-enchantment sideboard slots as a product of deck thinning.
The Elephant Grass is there as a remnant from the old prison list I used to run and I audibled to the deck before the tournament and didn't want to change to much from the old main. As far as liking it I think its really necessary against random bad decks I could have ran into in the first couple rounds as I didn't have any byes. It was a huge help when I ran it before and makes dredge an auto win, and is pretty good against merfolk which I was expecting to see in force. I might try a Mirri's Guile over one of them in the future but for now I like having the four. Sterling Grove is huge against Decay and really good after board as everyone brings in some enchantment destruction, and helps keep the Solitary lock up if I need to and allow me to keep my chain going.Quote:
Originally Posted by SovietOlga
Omnitell isn't to bad of a matchup as the sideboard Iona's actually just lock them out of the game and they are not unreasonable to hardcast them. Sneaky Show isn't to bad (with the help of the Grasses) I feel it's a pretty even match up If they have the Show and Tell into Sneak Attack then its not to good for me but if they only have one or the other I'm not too scared. Storm is interesting, in my area not to many people play it. If they do it's usually ANT and not Epic Storm or Belcher. I didn't think to many people would be on storm because most of the top decks right now are pretty good against it, and I was expecting a lot of True Name decks which prey on storm. I'm usually not to scared of the match-up because of the Leylines and Mindbreaks.
The sideboard is a little strange on paper but works pretty well. I don't like the Leylines to much against a lot of decks. I might go up to a third but not the full set. I just feel they take away to much space in the board and I had a hard enough time cutting cards to put in 2 of them I don't know what I would board out if I wanted to put more in. The Iona's are good against Omnitell like I said and also hoses a lot of decks if you can resolve it. Her mana cost isn't too unreasonable to get to. I used to run her as a one of in the board but I wanted to try out two of her to help my Omni matchup even more. Lignify is mostly there as an answer to opposing Iona's from the Reanimator matchup as they are always going to name white with her so I want a non-white answer to her. Karmic Guide is actually supposed to be Karmic Justice. The Platinum Angel was an interesting choice. I really like it post board against almost every deck as they will take out all their creature removal. It still gets hit by Krosan Grip but usually they'll snap that off at one of my enchantments. It basically comes down to decks not having an answer to it post board and having it steal games if I don't have a Solitary lock going. It's a card I'm probably going to keep in and try it out more before I think about cutting it.
Right now theirs a few cards that I want to try out in the board. Right now I'm thinking about playing Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite in the spot of one of the wraths and another Karmic Justice. Maybe even another City of Solitude. Sun Titan was something I thought of running for a while but since I switched to the RIP version it's not really an option anymore, but I might try it again if I can play around my own RIP. Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger is something I thought about as well. Sigarda is something I ran for a long time as a one of and I was pretty happy with her. I just feel like Zenith is a necessary card but its versatility is almost wasted on this deck and the sideboard is a good spot to experiment with it.
Hi guys
I recently built this deck and have managed to get some games against Death and Taxes. Is this just a horrendous matchup? Between Thalia and Port I could never play more than one spell a turn. Flickerwisp on my double enchanted Forest was not nice. The one game where I managed to get the engine going he had Mirran Crusader with a Jitte on it and killed me the turn before I would have drawn the Sanctum to lay Confinement. One game I had RiP and Helm in hand against his Thalia and Mangara board. I only had access to 5 mana so could tap-out to cast the Helm but it would then be exiled by the Mangara on his turn. How do you guys beat D&T? Anything obvious from the sideboard etc?
Did I just pick a bad matchup to test first? I don't want to abandon the deck straight away :(
Cheers,
Ben
Welcome Ben!Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabs
Death and Taxes is just about a dead even MU, but it's highly dependent on which list you built. You need basics, and lots of them.
Generally you want to spread your growth effects over multiple lands (to dodge Port, Vindicate...)
Karakas can also do a lot of work here bouncing Thalia (if need be) or a summoning sick Mangara. You should also really bring in a lot of O-rings from the board. ...This is a double edged sword because of Mom, but it's a necessary evil.
If you do all of these things and play tight it shakes out to who just top decks better.
On a different subject I'm trying a version with Gitaxian Probe and Manamorphose on MTGO the last day, and I really have to say I like the way it feels. Probe is an amazing card, and the perfect information certainly helps playing around Spell Snare, Spell Pierce, Daze, ...or knowing when to lead with a RIP or an enchantress (combo.) I'm still tweaking it, but it feels like the sports car version of this deck. More agile and rewards stronger play.
Lastly, for what it is worth I have decided to try and come out of painting retirement of (10ish years) and paint a banner / playmat for this deck. Still needs a lot of work but you can see it progress here. No guarantees if and when I will finish it though. ...there is a lot of cards to be flung, and a lot of life to be lived too.
With Sprawl, you can splash off-color cards for the board. I run 1-2 Dread of Night in the board of my traditional Enchantress deck depending on how much D&T I'm expecting. You can also go to running a singleton basic swamp instead of Scrubland or Bayou as a fetch target and am running 3 Heath/2 Catacombs or Marsh Flats (or something like that) as the fetch package to better work around their stuff. Dread absolutely has to be removed or they can't win, and they can't use Mangara to do it. It's an absolute house in that matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabs