Printable View
Disrupt is your best plan against black based disruption. After that, it's simply to go off as soon as possible. If you use the early turns to Disrupt and protect things with Brainstorm, you should be safe enough to combo off early. High Tide is definitely needed for the early combo, especially if they manage to make you pitch one. Try Disrupt and see how that works for you.
Infernal Tutor 1B - rare
Sorcery
Reveal a card in your hand. Search your library for a card with the same name, reveal it then put it into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Hellbent - If you have no cards in your hand, search your library for a card, put it into your hand then shuffle your library.
can this work in Spring Tide? do we need another tutor? is a black splash worth it and some other cards?
and disrupt is in some ways better in going of properly but remand can help trying to make a mini brain freeze for the kill and on a side note Brain storm is the hotness in this match up.
This deck should never, ever have an empty hand.
Truth. Though there's nothing wrong with getting High Tide or Meditate number 2.
I don't think I'd splash the black for it. That card can really probably find a place in Nausea though, where you can cast this and then pop LED for a Meditate. You're never going to be able to cast this with an empty hand because you can't play all your lands.
Well, the problem is: The Tutor can't do anything Twincast can't, but Twincast is blue and has much greater options(e.g. copying an opponent's counter) and Ray choose not to use Twincast in Spring Tide... so why splash a color (and give the opponent the possibility to benefit from his Wastelands) when an even better Card isn't in the deck..!Quote:
Originally Posted by GodzillA
Or they just grab Tendrils FTW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man
Defense Grid is AMAZING against both.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnwarA101
Twincast also doesn't make you pay for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derklord
It has already been stated why that trick will never happen here, why it isn't needed, and why Remand is a poor choice in general. (I'll go update the first post shortly, so check there for why its not making the cut.)Quote:
Originally Posted by subway-guy
You may be able to race it most of the time, but forcing lackey often buys 2-3 turns, and I'd much rather go off on turn 5-6 than 3-4 if I can, and keep in mind the fact that goblins can exploit Snap's vulnerabilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by subway-guy
Siding out a tide is a bad idea. The only way you can win is by waiting for their disruption to falter leaving you a small window of opportunity in which you are capable of going off. If you have to spend an extra turn grabbing the tide to go off, you are much more likely to miss that opportunity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man
Nausea has its own thread if you didn't notice ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SillyMetalGAT
This question is going to take us slightly off topic, but I've been really peeved by stuff like this lately:
Why is it that people feel the need to take a streamlined deck like this one and alter it until it sucks? A friend of mine was playing Solidarity in playtesting with me last week, and he was having a hard time but really liked the deck, so I changed it into Spring Tide and he's thinking of bringing it to Syracuse. He was talking about certain things though, like Time Stop, that had absolutely no place anywhere near lists like this, and it was really annoying. I didn't even want to explain to him how bad his ideas were.
What do you do when bad players don't understand what makes a deck good?
Make them test the original vs. the altered version thoroughly. Often, experimentation will give them a better feel for the deck, so just give them time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man
Hello, it's my first post here. I joined this forum because this Spirng Tide discussion going here, it really seems to be a deck that is both very good and cheap so I'll probably try to play it at the next tournament if I get all the cards. Unfortunately, I have little knowledge about it yet, so I would like to ask about proper sideboarding against the different decks. Could somebody help me?
You've got a wishboard, so mostly you don't want to be sideboarding at all. If you're playing Ray's SB, it looks like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by nightspirit
3x Defense Grid
3x Disrupt
2x Brain Freeze
1x Stroke of Genius
1x Meditate
1x Turnabout
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Misdirection
1x Capsize
1x Echoing Truth
Brain Freeze, Stroke, Meditate, Turnabout, Mystical Tutor, Misdirection, Capsize, and Echoing Truth are your wish board. They won't be boarded in, except for the second Brain Freeze, which can be boarded against Solidarity. I also just like having two in the board because I've had times when I wanted to wish for 2 (although this should not be a regular occurence, and is basically a bad play.)
Disrupt comes in against Deadguy to stop their Duress and Hymn, and I've seen it come in against Threshold to win the counter war, which it can occasionally do, especially against tapped-out Forces, but this is primarily for black-based disruption in the form of discard and LD.
Defense Grid comes in against anything that plays Counterspells. This basically means Threshold, but if you encounter other decks playing the control game, this is a huge help in the matchup. This also comes in against Solidarity to shut down their Resets.
As for what to take out, I'm not entirely sure on that myself, and Ray will have to step in here, but usually I'm boarding in 3 cards, and I'll take out the less powerful cards. I often go 2 x Sleight of Hand, 1 x Turnabout, but I think most things can drop one or two. Just leave your High Tides, Merchant Scrolls, and big draws in tact, and don't take out too many untaps. And ask Ray.
I agree with both Ray D 3 and Lego!
first you have to think about what decks you are going to meet during the tournament and then what decks you need to do something against! Be sure not to forget the Sideboard of all the decks!
Normaly, most aggressive decks (weenies, burn...) are to slow to kill you bevor you're able to goldfish them. So all you have to care about against these decks is their hate they can bord in. E.g. against decks including red you have to watch out for Boil and thinks like that, so you should board in disrupts to have protection against these things.
Another kind of hate/disruption is countermagic etc., so you boardin Defense Grids against decks playing a lot of that stuff.
The third category would be decks faster then you, which are (due to the good turn 3-4 goldfishing rate) combo decks. So you can bord in cards that slow down these decks if needed: things might be Defense Grid against Solidarity (not slower, but benefits from your cards and kill you in response) and maybe Stifle or extra counters against Belcher- or Tendril-based decks.
Hope I was able to help...
Common side-ins/outs:
-1 Snap/+1 Echoing Truth (expecting pyroclastic pillar, chalice, etc.)
-1 Snap, -2 Sleight of Hand/+3 Defense Grid (Thresh/control)
-1 Turnabout, -2 Sleight of Hand/+3 Disrupt (black disruption)
I'm trying to rework the board/decklist a little, so this may change.
I've been playing with this deck for a little while now and I like it quite a bit...however, there's one thing I'm curious about. Why doesn't this deck use a few Manipulate Fate? There's nothing more annoying than playing Meditate and drawing three lands and another card...if you run one or two Fates you can remove lands you don't need, and the card replaces itself. It might be unnecessary, but I think I'll test it...
EDIT: Mana Severance might work too, imo...
I have played mana servance and most of the time i would rather have a draw spell or it is just a win more card.
I tested Spring Tide against UGW ******** (the same decklist which placed 2nd in GP:Lille) a bit (4-1 before SB and 1-3 after SB) and despite a small number of matches some things concern me deeply.
First of all, dropping Defence Grid turn 3 (the only time it's both really useful and out of Daze range) causes an inability to answer Armageddon which is gg when they have any threats on board.
Second of all, siding out Snap against ***** lowers our chance to get rid of Meddling Mage quickly, if two of them resolve naming Cunning Wish and then Snap, which is quite probable since they carry more counters it's gg again. On the other hand they are less useful when comboing out because our Fearies are going farming in response to Snap (in one game I had to waste two Snaps to rescue Cloud Of Faeries to keep comboing off and then realized that I lost my only chance to get rid of Pikula), but IMO siding them out is a wrong decision. I chose 3rd Sleight Of Hand instead.
Third of all, has anyone sided in Echoing Truth to have antoher way of bouncing Mages or Brain Freeze to make them irrelevant?
Or maybe lack of experience is the main reason of my problems? What is your gameplan vs. ********?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obfuscate Freely
No, it requires them going off 1st turn on the play. Or comboing off second turn without High Tide.
Delayed response ftw. So in essence, no, you can't go off before Gro gets Counterspell online unless they honest-to-God tap out.
This isn't exactly true. When you're on the play, you drop a land and Serum Visions, they play a land and draw or Mongoose. You lay a land and can possibly go off on turn 2 (rare, but I've had hands where it is worth it) or a couple more draw spells. Now at this point, depending on what you've played, they're not going to know that you're not simply the mirror match, and it's quite possible for them to play a Serum Visions or Mongoose on their turn, at which point Counterspell is not online and you're facing 4 Force, 4 Daze going off on turn 3, which you can play around and through(obviously not if they have all 4 Force, but you know what I mean.)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin
I'd rather do that than wait until the late game, when they can have potentially a couple of Swords, a couple of Counterspells, and a couple of Forces plus some number of Meddling Mages in play.
In the end, I'll go ahead and retract most of my previous statements due to further playtesting (against opponents who actually know what they are doing.) Solidarity has a better matchup with Threshold because while they can't go off on turn 2 or 3 very easily, they can wait until they've shaped the perfect hand, which Spring Tide can't afford to do. Both matchups are quite bad, but they play very differently, and you win in different ways. Spring Tide attempts to resolve a Defense Grid and combo off as early as possible, while Solidarity is probably better suited by keeping relevant hate off the board and shaping a perfect hand. I think this has become even more true with the addition of Remand, but I'd like to hear other people's opinions on the matter, as I don't claim to be an expert with either deck.
You can't count on the surprise factor, since at a tournament with, say 60 people and seven rounds, you sitting at the top tables, any opponent (at the top tables) will know that you're not the mirror but a High Tide combo deck. If they are stupid enough, they will think you're playing Solidarity, since it seems to be a lot more popular, but that's the only surprise factor you can count on.
Of course, this might be different for a Grand Prix, but since there aren't any Legacy Grand Prixs in sight, I just assume that you're talking about 20-60 player tournaments here.
Solidarity doesn't necessarily have a better Gro matchup, since you don't need to combo off as fast as possible with Spring Tide. However, if you play the game slow, there are some cool things you can do. EOT Meditate or Turnabout are pretty strong against Gro. It is not that hard to play through Gro's counterwall if you start with 11 cards in hand. :)
I think, the Gro matchup is better for Spring Tide. Solidarity can't really bring in any relevant cards from the sideboard (maybe one Twincast or some Disrupts or Submerges, but that's it), whereas you have four cards (Defense Grids) that they *have to* counter.