Printable View
I played against you online I'm pretty sure, and I was intrigued by the deck. I think that splashing green would do you a lot of good; you get crop rotation, life from the loam if you want it (you probably don't), and abrupt decay somewhere in the 75. Extra tutors plus answers to counterbalance and random stuff like pithing needle seems worth the splash.Quote:
Originally Posted by legacyplayer0
http://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/co...e_dark_depths/
Some guy on reddit is working on a list as well. Opinions on the SFM package?
Hey, im new in this topic but i test ROCK with Dark Depths. i personally think that this is good idea to play. i will not describe cards in main which is obv like dark confidant or hexmage. i will say sth about cards like....chalice....but first look at list:
3 Vampire Hexmage
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Crop Rotation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Cabal Therapy - i choose because we will disc opp from all StP
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Living Wish - rich sideplan on this cards make game easier - ah obv:D
4 Thoughtseize
3 Pithing Needle - main target to protect combo are Wasteland / Karakas / Maze of ith. MU say what target will be. obv we can use it to protect us from other bad cards which can be bad. Also works against elfball
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Cavern of Souls - 90% call shaman for our Deathrite and Hexmage
1 Forest
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
2 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Dark Depths
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
2 Thespian's Stage
Side is obv. lands to grab it by wish and creatures to win like hexmage or kill bad guy by Maw. one card is interesting: chalice of the void. most of our cards are ! mana but we play it to kill elfball / ant etc. and very good against deck with ponders, bstorms, shamans, etc. i very like this card. also is good vs affinity for 0 and dredge to put off LED / Moxes
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Choke -
SB: 1 Dark Depths
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Shriekmaw
SB: 1 Vampire Hexmage
SB: 1 Volrath's Stronghold
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Wasteland
what is Ur opinion about this version of BG.
Has anyone seen the "Maritocracy" list, it was on a deck tech piece on Gathering Magic
http://www.gatheringmagic.com/inside...acy-deck-tech/
1 Snow-Covered Forest
3 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Brass
3 Karplusan Forest
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Dark Depths
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
1 Pendelhaven
1 Sejiri Steppe
Spells (38)
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Pithing Needle
4 Expedition Map
4 Into the North
4 Not of This World
4 Crop Rotation
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Lotus Petal
3 Fling
Sideboard (15)
2 Bojuka Bog
1 The Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale
2 Ashen Rider
3 Beast Within
3 Mindbreak Trap
4 Trinisphere
I've been testing this list a lot of Cockatrice and am in the process of getting the Tombs and Dark Depths for MTGO. I'm really liking how often this deck can make a t2 marit lage, has ok waste protection in the form of Crop Rotation, and relies primarily on one color for less color screw. Into the North is a big card for this archetype and I'm suprised I haven't seen it more often being as it enables t2 Lages more often.
Ex: t1 Ancient tomb, tap for 2, remove elvish spirit guide/lotus petal, Into the North (maybe drop a top, needle, or map too)
t2: Play Stage, tap tomb, Marit Lage
This deck has a few good lines, and gets around combat with Flings (which is nice when they have an Emrakul or Griselbrand...or a random ornithopter sitting on the other side of the board) The big problem is card selection, which Top helps with as much as it can but with the lack of fetches it can be difficult to shuffle away chaff without using a random Into the North for the Forest or crop rotating for value.
As far as battling hate it's hard to be mad at 4 pithing needle. Liliana, Karakas, and of course Wasteland are commonly played cards that hurt us a lot and needle helps to make them impact our game plan as hard. I could see this deck going black instead of red for sideboarded discard, Urborgs, and maybe Hexmage. The problem I have with Hexmage is that it's color requirement makes it difficult to use early for the combo and this build doesn't use equipment so having a body to stick a Jitte/SoFi is not as big a deal.
What do you guys think?
1st - i think this dack was an supprise and thats all
2nd - when anyone want play in local shop all players will know how play with you
3rd - i want be stable in semicombo deck. thats why i prefer play BG without white. clean BG rokc with DD combo, i post my BG for now and have enough good records to play on event. i will test it on sunday in my city.
I am still testing this deck,
and I have been playing with fling instead of steely resolve and liking it so far.
With the 5 color manabase we can play swan song which makes the combo matchup not sucks,
and you can most often ignore the token with clasme/punishing fire/ pro blue land/fling.
I am 100% sure we have to play urborg tomb+vampire hexmage which gives a lot to the deck and sylvan library which is one of the best card in the deck.
(protect marit lage from sword by drawing cards+ tutor whatever).
As for the side I lack one card, what I am sure is reb+pyroblast (at least 2), beast within+seal of primordium (you need at least 3 in total for blood moon+
random humility and such)
I tend to prefer the 2 beast within + 1 seal to kill jace or random lands against combo. Bojuka bog is a must have (vs TT/storm/reanimator/dredge).
I used to play 3 fire +3 clamse in side but I am not sure of that anymore. What I am sure is i want at least 3 pyroclasme in the 75 cards ; don't know if i have to
maindeck them ; pyroclamse is better against elf while fire is better against death and taxes. Canonist is very good against storm/omni show which we don't
lose to it anymore thanks to swan song. Revoker is okay against storm and good against sneak show and random decks.
Did anyone tested massacre/toxic deluge ?
I have been trying toxic deluge but didn't like it, we already have sylvan library to lose life, so too much life loss with deluge.
I also tryed slaughter games which is really good for miracle (entreat the angel), but now we don't need it anymore thanks to swan song.
Is there people still testing this deck ?
4 Crop Rotation
4 Sylvan Library
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Thespian's Stage
4 City of Brass
4 Dark Depths
1 Maze of Ith
4 Pithing Needle
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Vampire Hexmage
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Snow-Covered Forest
3 Gemstone Mine
4 Expedition Map
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Fling
4 Swan Song
1 Into the North
2 Copperline Gorge
3 Not of This World
SB: 2 Beast Within
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 4 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 Pyroclasm
EDIT : I am liking not of this world not the four though, addeed one canonist in side and the three pyroclasme which are not maindeck anymore
I still test this deck and it looks like you have figured out how to effectively solve some of the major problems. Here is the issue I'm seeing. You've jammed 5 colors into this. Red does little to help. Punishing fire is nice but is it worth dragging the game out with punishing fire instead of trying to finish the game with the combo? White is only in your sideboard and while its nice i ended up cutting it for an all in blue strategy.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrieng
If you are running black fling can be substituted for rite of consumption. I've found that mire's guile is better than library because it triggers during upkeep and because it comes down a turn earlier. I cut the direct tutors for brainstorm and ponder. With shuffle effects and fetch lands (in my build) mirri's guile is much better than without shuffle effects. Your tutors only search for lands so if you need a fling you just have to get lucky.
Additionally, if you are going to run 5 colors I'd highly recommend a weathered wayfarer It's pretty much a 1 card combo.
instead of massacre / toxic i've run ratchet bomb that can kill tokens the turn it comes out and can build up to killing blood moon. I main board it.
The miracles matchup can get out of hand if they get everything they need. Otherwise they kind of fold to it. I've started testing not of this world because its a free counter spell that hits 99% of relevant interactions with the token.
I'm confused on phyrexian revoker. It doesn't hit anything that the deck is generally concerned with, Karakas, maze of ith, or wasteland.
I'm curious how you are finding your changes over what i'm running and what the advantages are.
Fling is better than rite of cosumption, mainly beacause it is instant so if they sword your token in resp you fling it ; while against rite they just sword their own guy
to gain life and don't die to rite.
Library is better than mirri's guile cause it protects the token from sword (+20 life means +5 extra draw cards).
You don't need shuffle effect, you have already 3 sylvan scrying + 4 crop + 4 map +1 ghost quarter to shuffle the crap, and forest makes you vulnerable to
submerge.
In your blue build you play 4 brainstorm/ponder while i play 4 map +3 scrying, tutor are better than ponder/brainstorm cause it gives you what you need right
now.
Weathered wayfarer is too slow ; I already tested it and disliked it.
Not of this world is worse than swan song, song is much more versatile against decks that doesn't play sword to plownshare ; while still eating sword.
Revoker is for tes/ant/sneak show/ maybe miracle/painter etc ...
not of this world combats karakas, maze, swords, anything that is an ability or spell targeting the token. map and sylvan don't search for hexmage and they can't get other answers if you need something other than the combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrieng
I have refrained from swan song simply because it gives them a blocker, unless you are already attacking.
In the event that the tokens does get swords, i can see how library would allow you to draw cards.
Fling is defiantly better than rite, but is it that much better?
If you are willing to test on cockatrice I'd be very interested to test with you. PM me if you are interested
After many more matches online, this is my current list.
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Depths
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Cabal Pit
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Thespian's Stage
4 Mox Diamond
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Crop Rotation
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Hexmage
2 Life from the Loam
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
Sideboard
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Crop Rotation
3 Golgari Charm
3 Massacre
3 Mindbreak Trap
This is the best version of Dark Depths that I've been able to come up with. It has been working very well, and has the tools to fight any deck. Confidant, Liliana, and Life from the Loam give Dark Depths a powerful core that will quickly put the opponent at an irrecoverable disadvantage if the opponent does not address them. Deathrite Shaman is great, replacing Dark Ritual in my build. Deathrite has the advantage of providing a reusable source of utility late in the game where Dark Ritual would be a dead draw, and of course can also jump in front of Liliana. 2 Maelstrom Pulse provides a flexible answer that I believe to be superior to Abrupt Decay. Abrupt Decay is dead in many matchups, while Maelstrom Pulse can be used to kill stuff like Jace, Sneak Attack, Leyline of Sanctity, Batterskull, among other things. Also, I was surprised by how often Pulse takes out 2 copies of a card. It is common to sideboard out the Dark Confidant and Deathrite Shaman for Massacre and Golgari Charm. This gives the deck enough removal to shut down decks with many creatures. Mindbreak Trap is awesome, because it's good in situations where discard doesn't cut it. It is the most useful card in the sideboard, because it is often the deciding factor in a match.
what weakness does this deck have against deck with force of will, counter spell, jace?Quote:
Originally Posted by legacyplayer0
what sideboard should i include?
do u think living wish is a good side board? was planning to include 4 in the main deck.
No weaknesses to your mentioned cards. Its weak to wasteland, karakas, swords to plowshares, submerge, ensnaring bridge, terminus, maze of ith.Quote:
Originally Posted by junitor
Ive posted numerous times on living wish in past pages.
I've been testing this guy around.
Marit Lage Combo
Creatures (15)
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Vampire Hexmage
Deck Manipulation (11)
4 Crop Rotation
4 Living Wish
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Life from the Loam
Disruption (9)
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
Lands (25)
1 Dark Depths
1 Maze of Ith
1 Thespian's Stage
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
2 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
Actual Sideboard (5)
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Abrupt Decay
Wishboard (9)
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Peacekeeper
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Wasteland
So far so good. I've noticed the games I lose tend to be my mistakes with a new deck more than simply being outclassed in the format. I'll admit it is slower than a true dedicated list but I feel it is more resilient than those lists thanks to Living Wish. Living Wish lets you cultivate a board and hand state that, short of blue mana, you really can't do consistently. The reason this deck is blue instead of Black is Vampire Hexmages double black AND the discard suite. A proactive game plan is the way to take down opposing combo decks. Mainboard and Sideboard discard allow you to start the game on your pace. Waiting with a reactive spell like Mindbreak Trap or some other actual colored Counterspell just gives them time to scuplt an even better hand. I take it to work similar to other slower combo decks. Just board in some hate and slow them down to hopefully 1 turn slower than you and win that game. As for the lack of Hymn to Tourach and Liliana of the Veil, these cards are great for actually beating someone the hard way, but all in all we are trying to fly above and take out only the relevant cards. I feel cards like those simply are too clunky in a deck trying to win like a combo deck.
Thing's I'd like to change.
I think Sylvan Library OR Mirri's Guile would be better than the 2 Sensei's Divining Tops, I have yet to decide which is better as of right now, and I am testing both options.
I think the deck wants access to a Dryad Arbor (changing the 2 Marsh Flats out for 2 Windswept Heaths) so that Cabal Therapy's flashback can be accessed easier.
I want another Fetch OR another Urborg in the deck somewhere, leaning on the Fetch for shuffles.
Life from the Loam has been sub par in the matchups I've tried so far with this deck. I'm beginning to think it is a set of training wheels shouldn't be mainboard.
I've been thinking about a Tidehollow Scullar / Sin Collector in Sideboard as a Wish target as an extra option against the turn you go off. The match up I want it in are usually very grindy so I was thinking Sin Collector might be the better move as they can't get the card back barring me Swords to Plowsharing him myself in response to his enters the battlefield trigger. (This makes it so his leaves battlefield trigger cannot trigger as he is not on the battlefield, permanently exiling the targeted card.)
Something I'm noticing, as i'm sure others are seeing. The deck appears to be splitting into two Archetypes, one being dedicated Combo and the other being more like The Rock with the combo to finish off a war of attrition. Do you guys think these are separate enough to discuss as different decks? They tend play entirely differently except on some lucky similar draws, and of course the win condition itself.
I believe you'll find mirri's better with dark confidantQuote:
Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard
Life from the loam adds redundancy in your list and is probably unnecessary.
About the deck and its variations. You are correct about the dedicated combo. The other archetype is any shell it fits into. It fits into a lot of decks. Ive seen it in nic fit, Rock, Lands, Aggro Loam. Additionally you can fit it into anything because its colorless. Unfortunately regardless of what you put it in it will suffer from the same problems. Wastelands, Karakas, Swords to plowshares. In a lands shell you can pretty much cancel out wasteland and karakas because of the loam engine and the ports.
The deck does not seem well positioned in the meta right now but its still very good because of the surprise factor.
Currently I'm bouncing between 2 different versions. One is a lands version with explorations and the loam engine. The other is a BUG version with counter spells and cantrips. Both are dedicated combo's.
Im almost certain that in the near future (hopefully) a card will be printed that just pushes this decks consistency to the point where its more consistent than the other combo decks in the format. It also wants a card that deals with those three problems (wasteland, karakas, and swords). Not of this world is very close to filling the role perfectly and it fits into any version.
As an elves player this deck intrigues me as some variations of it are very similar in game plan to elves in that they have a primary combo finish but can aggro and play it out if necessary. While I do not have enough experience to discuss card choices and contribute to this thread yet (played 5 or so games on cockatrice just now), I did come across a situation which I had a question about. I have dark depths and vampire hexmage in play, and my opponent has swords in hand with wasteland in play.
What he did was wasteland my dark depths, then i sacced hexmage in reponse and he tried to swords and i explained to him that he couldnt as the mage was already in the graveyard. After a bit of explaining I made the marit lage token and went on to the win the game.
What if my opponent went a different route though? If he first went with a swords on hexmage, then in reponse I sac it, could he in response to the sac kill my dark depths and prevent me from getting marit lage?
Sorry for the noob question, thanks in advance for any help.
This is quite a neat deck, and I look forward to contributing to this thread with what I find in my own testing in the near future.
Yes that is correct. Also, a relatively common situation that comes up is that you will have 2 Hexmages in play and your opponent has a Wasteland. If you attempt to activate a Hexmage targeting Dark Depths, and they wasteland in response you can activate the second Hexmage to get Marit Lage, but if your opponent is intelligent they will wait until the Hexmage's ability resolves and the trigger to sacrifice Depths is on the stack to Wasteland, because that will prevent you from using another Hexmage since the counters are already removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atikin
hi,
i am going with this deck from legacyplayer0, any idea if i can slot in Not of this world? will it make the deck better?
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Depths
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Cabal Pit
1 Karakas
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Thespian's Stage
4 Mox Diamond
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Crop Rotation
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Hexmage
2 Life from the Loam
2 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Liliana of the Veil
Sideboard
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Crop Rotation
3 Golgari Charm
3 Massacre
3 Mindbreak Trap
any ideas will be greatly appreciated. thank you all.
Play this list :
4 Crop Rotation
4 Sylvan Library
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Thespian's Stage
4 City of Brass
4 Dark Depths
1 Maze of Ith
4 Pithing Needle
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Vampire Hexmage
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Snow-Covered Forest
3 Gemstone Mine
4 Expedition Map
4 Sylvan Scrying
3 Fling
4 Swan Song
1 Into the North
2 Copperline Gorge
3 Not of This World
SB: 2 Beast Within
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 4 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 3 Pyroclasm
I have been testing this list for a while now ; didn't test the list from starcitygames though which might be good but more controllish.
Though if you want to play your list here are the changes you have to make :
-4 shaman +4 sylvan library
No resaon not to play library it protects marit lage from sword and tutor the combo.
Please play 4 crop rotation -4 hymn +2 crop rotation +2 expedition map.
-3 seize -1 inquisition +3 sylvan scrying
Sylvan scrying is better than into the north for consistancy issue (having the wrong part of the combo).
No reason to play discard, it is a dead card in topdeck mode, doesn't always protect marit lage you want answers ;
while the deck strength is his consistancy lot of tutors means when you will go on topdeck mode you will likely find the combo pieces
that's why discard sucks.
if you are not playing the 5 color manabase (which you should to be submerge proof and have access to sb canonist + fling) ;
play at least the 1B fling sorcery, fling is the way to go against karakas (deathand taxes+maverick+bant mainly) an other way is punishing fire
and be the controldeck.
Add one maze of ith, it can be copied with thespian stage easily and there are a lot of situation you want to fetch it (mainly you have just one part of the combo, batterskull etc...)
Playing wasteland is not wrong if you play loam, I still prefer needle and ghost quarter makes sneak show/miralce and lot of others matchups better.
Mox diamond is good with dark confidant, i tend to prefer consistency with map (which makes color screwed less a problem)
Add one seriji steppe, I added it and never went back, it protects from sword via crop and gives you the ability to ignore flying creatures(evasion).
I wont' talk about your sideboard which is a mess and hasn't been worked on, mindbreak trap ? really ? play canonist way better against storm/elves/omnishow,
pyroclamse is better than golgari charm against deathand taxes/TT/gob ; and you should play seal of primordium+beast within to fight blood moon (decay is crap against it).
I'd like to see one waste so you can crop rotate to kill karakas instead of only having a main phase needle.
Edit: saw quarter
To add to my previous comment and deck list I've recently been playing 1 Dryad Arbor in SB to be sided in with the 3 Cabal Therapy. I've been getting good value out of it. I've also discovered as I'm sure many of you have that the more Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth there is, the seemingly better life is.