@ Skullclamping: Right, agreed. I forgot to ever take those Promises out of my binder. One will go in the sideboard this afternoon for testing, thanks :)
Printable View
@ Skullclamping: Right, agreed. I forgot to ever take those Promises out of my binder. One will go in the sideboard this afternoon for testing, thanks :)
I've been playing Rhystic Tutor in the board with much success. I wish for it like 1 in 4 times. I think its better than contract. For the same mana, or less via helms, you DO get the card you needed with contract. With no life loss. Dont pretend life loss isnt an issue because you know your playing with spoils and you know spoils is unforgiving. My opponents barely ever has the mana to stop it EVER. Infact there were only 2 in 10 games where they had 2 up when I was going off.
And I do think that grid is better than swarm. Swarm has way to many ways to die to fish and landstill and red Thresh and then the counters go online. Most people I play with in woosta would never be foolish enough to take out too much removal, figuring you would try some sneaky Negator tricks. As a landstill player w the red splash, I will have a swords or a fire/ice ready for the 0/1 insect. I expect him. Grid shuts down ALL nonsense without doing anything but playing it, usually turn 1. If they nuke it GOOD. It wasnt helm. And they probably tapped out which means I win. And I can Rhystic Tutor! :o
Promise has been in the SB for a while now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man
After some thurough testing I firmly believe that Infernal Contract should be in the SB.
// Sideboard
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Night's Whisper
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Promise of Power
1 Regrowth
1 Infernal Contract
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Simplify
1 Echoing Ruin
1 Firebolt
4 Xantid Swarm
That is the SB for people who are too lazy to go to the first page.
How is this SB not optimal? What do you propose to replace these "suboptimal" cards? They are easily the best answer/draw that youQuote:
The Nausea board; we all seem to agree that PoP, Desperate Research, and Firebolt are still experimental. And I have found the Therapy underwhelming. Our problem is that these are useful answers for certain gamestates, however, and we have nothing to take their place. At least that's the way I see it.
have access to in Legacy.
Roopey what made you come to the decision of the swarms?
Why do you feel you need the sb cards against counter anyways?
I've been playing 4 Duress in that spot and have been very happy with it. It cherry picks orims chant and abeyance from hands as well as counterspells. It's not as narrow.
I could see where swarm/grid would be better against a blue tuned meta, but the only deck were I would give a shit is thresh, and duress is doing fine there. Not to mention it's accessable via wish.
you don't need it, everything you can want is still in sideQuote:
Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living
why? can you give any arguments?Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Roopey
I still think PoP can do the same work
I also thought something like youQuote:
Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living
with this, you can get Teraphy out of side, giving us another slot
and Duress is also good against decks with mass discard or possibly mirror...
and I also have a question:
Do you use the Diminishing Returns in side?
I think I have not wished for it many times, most times you can win with IGG or Tendrils instead of Returns, so it isn't so good I think (it's great, but you have other things to use)
And also, when I was thinking in any other Sorcery for side, I remembered an Odissey card, Recoup
what do you think about it?
Swarm "gets" all of the counters out of there hand, where Duress only gets one. I think that would be the main arguement against it. Other than that, I guess it's really up to you, but I still believe Swarm is much better than Duress.Quote:
Originally Posted by bane_of_the_living
It's in the SB in addition to PoP. It is in there because of the fact that you can wish for it when you are low on mana and can't afford a PoP. It's a wishable Meditate, how bad can that be? I'm thinking not at all.Quote:
Evil Roopey wrote:
After some thurough testing I firmly believe that Infernal Contract should be in the SB.
why? can you give any arguments?
I still think PoP can do the same work
Diminishing Returns was the whole reason to have a Wish board. I absolutely love the card. I think that it is easily more powerful than anything else in the SB.Quote:
Do you use the Diminishing Returns in side?
I think I have not wished for it many times, most times you can win with IGG or Tendrils instead of Returns, so it isn't so good I think (it's great, but you have other things to use)
And also, when I was thinking in any other Sorcery for side, I remembered an Odissey card, Recoup
what do you think about it?
Also, Recoup seems interesting, but I don't think it is stronger than Regrowth for a couple reasons. Regrowth has been able to get back Helms, lands, and much needed other stuff. I will test it based on the fact that it can actually be played off of an Egg, and it might turn out to be better. Who knows until you test?
Roop
Dimisnishing Returns is the nuts, but now that I've figured out IGGy, I've actually been going for that more than I have for Diminishing Returns. If you cast Burning wish as your 5th spell and have a Tendrils and a Ritual in your hand OR yard... you pretty much win. It's actually that insane for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Roopey
What hasn't been insane for me is Regrowth. I have yet ti wish for it... you said that it's best for getting Rituals back, but then it's (best case scenario, involving Helm) RGB for BBB. Fairly subpar IMO.
I *know* that, I just forgot to *put* it there :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Roopey
I also have never wished for Regrowth, although I suppose it can get back a Tendrils and play it again :wink:
Ritual can also be Cabal Ritual (so RGB for BBBBB under Helm). Personally, I have wished for Regrowth. If you are light on mana, but need 2 or 3 more storm and have a ritual in the graveyard, then that is where Regrowth is great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drkdstryer
But that also assumes Threshold. So basically, the only time that you would Wish for Regrowth is with a Helm out, with an untapped land (or Chromatic Sphere and an extra mana), 7 cards in your yard - including Cabal Ritual. Seems kinda weak - if I had a Ritual in my yard, an untapped land, and a Helm out, I could almost always win by going for IGGy.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrp
yes, that's what I was saying, to use a Diminishing Returns, you can use an IGG in an easier way, so I think that after including this, Returns is not so powerfulQuote:
Originally Posted by Drkdstryer
Simply stated, Diminishing Returns gives you 7 cards, Ill-Gotten Gains gives you 3. That's a huge difference. There have been many times where all I will have in my yard is some mana acceleration, and maybe one card drawer. If I've already got plenty of mana floating after the Wish, and I just want to keep comboing off, I'll take the 7 cards over a ritual, LED, and a Night's Whisper. What I'm saying is that in a lot of situations, IGG doesn't give you enough options, so the seven cards are nice just to keep going off.
And you would be absolutely correct. For a great price, we can get back a full hand and continue going off. I think it's easily the most broken card we have in Legacy for Storm combo of this nature. And it's my favorite card to wish for, even in front of Tendrils.Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Roopey
As for the rest of the sideboard, and what I said earlier, I never said it was "not optimal," because that statement would be a fallacy. One can never really know what sideboard is optimal, because play conditions always change. And that leads me to my original point: some cards seem really busted, and we Wish for them all the time, yet some don't see much use. And I know they serve a distinct purpose, but I wish they could be on power level with the rest (Tendrils, IGG, Diminishing Returns). I'm not used to playing a resilient Storm deck; from my experience, my Wishboards (see: Extended Desire, Legacy Easter Tendrils) have always just been gas for going off mid combo, or transformational boards into the "Man plan". So, I'm still getting used to the gamestates in which these answers are useful, not saying that they're awful. There can always be more efficient answers, however, and we should certainly not stop looking for new and better ideas.
I haven't been very fond of Promise of Power/Infernal Contract.
When do you decide if you want IGG or Diminishing Returns over them? Is it based off if you have LED or not?
Most times I'd rather take IGG because of whats in my yard. Going in blind for more cards via contract/power is when I seem to fizzle out.
I've also been missing chrome mox. :?
Gains can be good if you have a Tendrils in the yard. If you're at 5 storm before you cast the Wish, you can win if there's a tendrils and 2 cheap accels in the yard. Otherwise, the deck's draw power is woefully bad, so I'd just use the Returns for much love and happiness.
-Slay
Well that's why both are in the SB, you go for them in different situations. But the 7 : 3 isn't entirely accurate, as IGGy gives you 3 KNOWN cards and Returns gets you 7 UNKNOWN cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man
I didn't try out Infernal Contract yet, but PoP was fine for me when I had an LED and a Ritual effect, 5 cards seems pretty good : P
I didn't say IGG shouldn't be in the board, I just said Returns should. They both have their uses.
I'm agree right now that Returns must be there, it gives you 7 cards, right, and most times it's enough to win
what I'm not agree is Infernal Contract, and because I have many problems with enchantments in my meta (full of t1 or old extended decks) becausae of Enchantress decks, I have a Tranquility, but it's not standard :P
Heh, I know. As I was typing up my post I kinda realized that we're not really arguing anything... just extolling the virtues of IGGy and Returns, repsectively ;PQuote:
Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man
@Skullclamping: If you have a problem with Enchantments, just replace the Simplify in the board with Tranquility... I still think that Infernal Contract is a very good midrange draw spell that the deck needs.
I also thought on that, and I will just try like this, because Tranquility lets me win :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Drkdstryer
but I would like to know when are you using Infernal Contract, so I never find the moment to use it
any advice?