[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

Abrupt Decay only hits resolved LEDs and Petals. If ANT is playing out LEDs and Petals then either Jund is about to die or Jund has another turn to fire off their discard where they will still likely find plenty of relevant things to hit. Even holding Abrupt Decay for your LED on the table, I feel like spending their turn 2 casting Hymn or some combination of Deathrite, discard, and Wasteland is much more productive.

Looking at the most recent Jund list that I can find, http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=62548, I feel like their ideal sideboard would be the following:

+3 Pyroblast, +2 Duress, +2 Nihil Spellbomb, +2 Surgical Extraction
-4 Abrupt Decay, -3 Bloodbraid Elf, -1 Forest, -1 Maelstrom Pulse

Now, many Jund players aren't going to get exactly this, however, I would expect something close. Maybe they'll leave in an Abrupt Decay or two, but considering the amount of discard they have, I would probably still play into it every time.

Also, if they expect Empty the Warrens (for example you show them a Burning Wish), then perhaps they leave in the Pulse and bring in the Golgari Charm. Possibly they side out a couple Punishing Fire or a PFire and a Pyroblast in order to do this.

In any event, as Lemnear said, it seems unlikely that Dark Confidant will do much more than cantrip.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by southfloridamagic

Hey guys, Dave from www.southfloridamagic.com here. I top 4'd SCG Orlando w/ ANT and will be doing a write up that goes live tomorrow, will cross post here. I've been reading the ANT thread for a while (mostly the old one) and would love to give some contribution since your guys' words have helped me.

Additionally, Thomas Hake (who got 2nd the same tournament) will be joining me for a live legacy tournament where we will both be commentating this Wednesday around 7:30pm EST. You can watch at twitch.tv/southfloridamagic if you are into that sort of thing.

---

Congrats on the finish, Dave. Look forward to reading the report.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BeardTron

Congrats on the finish, Dave. Look forward to reading the report.

---

Thanks BeardTron.

As promised, here is the Top 4 recap.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by southfloridamagic

Thanks BeardTron.

As promised, here is the Top 4 recap.

---

Hey there David, many congrats on the fine performance, and thanks for the write up.

I have a comment/question:

You write at one point that against delver decks is where Xantid Swarm really shines. I'm quite intrigued by this. I like to bring in some number of swarms against most delver decks, even against RUG in spite of their bolts. I know, however, that some contingent of the ANT population feel that it's down right wrong to be bringing them in against a delver deck with bolts as those are unlikely to come out for games 2 and 3 and so they'll have removal for your swarms. The one delver deck that I'm the most hesitant to bring in the swarms against is actually BUG because of their discard. It feels slightly underwhelming to resolve a swarm and pass the turn only to be hit by a hymn. That's not to say that it is incorrect to board the swarms in against BUG but I just don't feel that delver decks is where the swarms really shine. I think they really shine against decks like show and tell and miracles. Basically counter heavy decks with no discard and no-to-little removal (miracles MIGHT keep in a plow or two just for the swarms). What is your take on it?

Again, congrats on the awesome result, I was rootin' for ya in the semis. Was rough to see him hide force on top and waste you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nevilshute

Hey there David, many congrats on the fine performance, and thanks for the write up.

I have a comment/question:

You write at one point that against delver decks is where Xantid Swarm really shines. I'm quite intrigued by this. I like to bring in some number of swarms against most delver decks, even against RUG in spite of their bolts. I know, however, that some contingent of the ANT population feel that it's down right wrong to be bringing them in against a delver deck with bolts as those are unlikely to come out for games 2 and 3 and so they'll have removal for your swarms. The one delver deck that I'm the most hesitant to bring in the swarms against is actually BUG because of their discard. It feels slightly underwhelming to resolve a swarm and pass the turn only to be hit by a hymn. That's not to say that it is incorrect to board the swarms in against BUG but I just don't feel that delver decks is where the swarms really shine. I think they really shine against decks like show and tell and miracles. Basically counter heavy decks with no discard and no-to-little removal (miracles MIGHT keep in a plow or two just for the swarms). What is your take on it?

Again, congrats on the awesome result, I was rootin' for ya in the semis. Was rough to see him hide force on top and waste you.

---

I think Swarm is stronger against Show and Tell then Delver, but I still also Swarm is stronger against Delver than Carpet of Flowers. Any good opponent can play around carpet of flowers with ease, but playing around Swarm is a lot harder. Resolved Swarms just had so much more impact in my games over the past few months than Carpet ever did. I also altered my line of play when I had the Swarm in hand and would strip their burn if they had any before resolving the Swarm and it worked out nicely for me. Could be a corner case scenario, and very well could be wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by southfloridamagic

I think Swarm is stronger against Show and Tell then Delver, but I still also Swarm is stronger against Delver than Carpet of Flowers. Any good opponent can play around carpet of flowers with ease, but playing around Swarm is a lot harder. Resolved Swarms just had so much more impact in my games over the past few months than Carpet ever did. I also altered my line of play when I had the Swarm in hand and would strip their burn if they had any before resolving the Swarm and it worked out nicely for me. Could be a corner case scenario, and very well could be wrong.

---

I agree for the most part with your swarm vs carpet argument. I've gone away from using carpets as well instead of swarms, but from an underlying (and probably over simplified) reasoning of "I can only allocate 3-4 slots to combat islands.deck in my board and swarm is just much more of a crux than carpet. I still think carpet is stronger against delver decks over all thatn swarm is. It's not that easy to play around carpet imo, especially with RUG delver being replaced by the more mana hungry UWR delver. 2 Islands in play on the other side of the fence and carpet is pretty fantastic against a deck that still relies quite heavily on soft counters and wastelands. However, against show and tell decks carpet is nigh useless... it's hardly ever going to be a lack of mana that loses us those matchups but rather our inability to discard them through their leylines.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nevilshute

I think they really shine against decks like show and tell and miracles. Basically counter heavy decks with no discard and no-to-little removal

---

Don't forget about Merfolk, which is another matchup where the Swarm can win the game alone.

For my part, I never board in Swarm if opponent has removal for it. Against tempo I use Carpet.


EDIT

A question about the Jund matchup, that I tested yesterday (only post-board games) and I found it to be harder than I expected (when I tested Jund with TES it was easier): do you board something against them, or you simply keep the maindeck inaltered?
I both tried boarding nothing and boarding in 3 Decays (for their Shaman - Liliana - Confidant) in place of 2 preordain / 1 Lim-dul's, and I felt better with the no sideboard plan: I guess having more cantrips helps recovering from their discard.

Only once I managed to combo without being hit by any discard (I was on the draw but he played just Shaman T1 and I had a T1-kill hand); on average their discard hit me at least three times per game, and recovering from that isn't easy at all, espacially if they landed Liliana and/or Shaman.
I'm starting to think that ANT suffers discard more than counters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anakyn

Don't forget about Merfolk, which is another matchup where the Swarm can win the game alone.

For my part, I never board in Swarm if opponent has removal for it. Against tempo I use Carpet.


EDIT

A question about the Jund matchup, that I tested yesterday (only post-board games) and I found it to be harder than I expected (when I tested Jund with TES it was easier): do you board something against them, or you simply keep the maindeck inaltered?
I both tried boarding nothing and boarding in 3 Decays (for their Shaman - Liliana - Confidant) in place of 2 preordain / 1 Lim-dul's, and I felt better with the no sideboard plan: I guess having more cantrips helps recovering from their discard.

Only once I managed to combo without being hit by any discard (I was on the draw but he played just Shaman T1 and I had a T1-kill hand); on average their discard hit me at least three times per game, and recovering from that isn't easy at all, espacially if they landed Liliana and/or Shaman.
I'm starting to think that ANT suffers discard more than counters.

---

Cards that I find to be good against Jund (but perhaps not necessarily good enough against a broader meta):

Pithing Needle
Sensei's Divining Top
Empty the Warrens

Nice job Dave! I'm not sold on the Swarms versus Delver decks (I don't like the card versus Bolt or discard) either though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anakyn

A question about the Jund matchup, that I tested yesterday (only post-board games) and I found it to be harder than I expected (when I tested Jund with TES it was easier): do you board something against them, or you simply keep the maindeck inaltered?
I both tried boarding nothing and boarding in 3 Decays (for their Shaman - Liliana - Confidant) in place of 2 preordain / 1 Lim-dul's, and I felt better with the no sideboard plan: I guess having more cantrips helps recovering from their discard.

Only once I managed to combo without being hit by any discard (I was on the draw but he played just Shaman T1 and I had a T1-kill hand); on average their discard hit me at least three times per game, and recovering from that isn't easy at all, espacially if they landed Liliana and/or Shaman.
I'm starting to think that ANT suffers discard more than counters.

---

I board two Decays or bounce spells in the dark in addition to any other stuff I have (just one Needle atm), since they sometimes play permanent hate such as Thorn, and getting rid of Shaman, Lilly or their clock isn't all that bad. Never cut cantrips versus discard decks though, I'd probably shave Therapies first versus them. Other cards you can board are Divert, Flusterstorm, Sensei's Divining Top, Pithing Needle, Leyline of Sanctity, 2nd Ad Nauseam (EtW isn't bad either, but I think AdN is better in the MU).

I also did my homework and I won my byes for GP Paris with Ant :cool:

What do you think what is now the best strategy against Patriot may be to sideboard in Carpet of flowers, Massacres, some abrupt decays and empty the warrens ?

I have seen some players sideboarding out Past in flames vs decks with shamans like Jund, Team America or Bug, but I dont like that I think that I never sideboarded out past in flames since I started to play that card.


I have been testing these months a version with two ad nauseams and some moxes, and the deck had more turns 2 kill and I think that is better vs non blue decks, but I think that is more solid to play with only 1 Ad nuseam and the deck is more consistently vs blue decks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nevilshute

Cards that I find to be good against Jund (but perhaps not necessarily good enough against a broader meta):

Pithing Needle
Sensei's Divining Top
Empty the Warrens

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JamieW89

I board two Decays or bounce spells in the dark in addition to any other stuff I have (just one Needle atm), since they sometimes play permanent hate such as Thorn, and getting rid of Shaman, Lilly or their clock isn't all that bad. Never cut cantrips versus discard decks though, I'd probably shave Therapies first versus them. Other cards you can board are Divert, Flusterstorm, Sensei's Divining Top, Pithing Needle, Leyline of Sanctity, 2nd Ad Nauseam (EtW isn't bad either, but I think AdN is better in the MU).

---

Thanks for the answers.


I'm not convinced on the Warrens plan because probably the Jund player is boarding a couple of Golgari charms and Engineered explosives / Pernicious deed / Engineered plague just for that: I would really prefer winning on the spot with Tendrils than hoping they don't have or they don't draw into any sweeper.

Maybe I should just cut a couple of Therapies for a couple of Decays.

Another option vs decks with discards is Ignorant Bliss but well I think that the best option vs discard is sensei divining top.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kiwi

Another option vs decks with discards is Ignorant Bliss but well I think that the best option vs discard is sensei divining top.

---

Neither option is viable as a strategy. Bliss is 2 mana against Thoughtseize, Hymn and Lilli.. laughable. SDT is slow and a real mana-sink

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemnear

Neither option is viable as a strategy. Bliss is 2 mana against Thoughtseize, Hymn and Lilli.. laughable. SDT is slow and a real mana-sink

---

+1
SDT may be good versus discard decks without a fast clock like B/W-Blade aka Deadguy or Esperblade, but Jund is able to put serious pressure on your life-total really fast. They tend to slow you down with discard and land an early Goyf or (if it stays in their deck after boarding) BBE into SOMETHING and the damage is done. Play out your artifacts (LED's) and wait for your Storm-Engine (even Chain of Vapor is sometimes good enough here). Ignorant Bliss forces you to fetch for an early Volc against a Wasteland-Deck or to burn a Petal... that seems horrible. Like Jamie pointed out, don't cut your cantrips against Jund, fetch for basics if possible like against Tempo, play out LED's and sit there waiting... I tend to board my 2 Chains to buy a bit of time or to be prepared if they land a hate-permanent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DarkJester

I tend to board my 2 Chains to buy a bit of time or to be prepared if they land a hate-permanent.

---

Do you prefer Chains over Decays vs Jund? Can you explain why?



Speaking in general, the only real issue I got when I have to sideboard with ANT against any deck packing some permanent-hate (Liliana / Shaman, Leyline, Meddling mage / Canonist and so on) is to decide which is the best answer between Chain and Decay. Right now I play 3+3, but I rarely board in all 6 of them cause cutting 6 cards from the main is a lot.
There are obvious choices like Decay vs Chalice / Counterbalance or Chain vs Leyline, but in the other matchups I'm a bit on the fence.

For example, against DnT I usually prefer Chain cause Decay is somewhat hard to cast against their mana denial.

But what about the matchups where both Chain and Decay are good? How do you choose between them?

Quote:

---

But what about the matchups where both Chain and Vapor are good? How do you choose between them?

---

They usually have the same strengths and weaknesses.

if i'm in doubt i board in my chains isntead of decays because i can use them as a (mini-)storm generator.

I'm curious on people's thoughts on this deck in the TNN infested meta? Typically when the meta shifts to control aggro becomes better however TNN can keep aggro in check as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bkemke

I'm curious on people's thoughts on this deck in the TNN infested meta? Typically when the meta shifts to control aggro becomes better however TNN can keep aggro in check as well.

---

The fact that you don't really need to protect TNN, leaves you with much more MB and SB space to tackle unfavorable matchups like combo. It's a sign that UWR can run 4 Meddling mage + 2 Flusterstorm + 2 REB's in the side without loosing ground against other decks.

It's not necessarily a good time to play combo unless you really can Profit from the ongoing fight around SFM, which is not a problem unless people realize that Spell Snare is much better in the current metagame than spell pierce.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemnear

The fact that you don't really need to protect TNN, leaves you with much more MB and SB space to tackle unfavorable matchups like combo. It's a sign that UWR can run 4 Meddling mage + 2 Flusterstorm + 2 REB's in the side without loosing ground against other decks.

It's not necessarily a good time to play combo unless you really can Profit from the ongoing fight around SFM, which is not a problem unless people realize that Spell Snare is much better in the current metagame than spell pierce.

---

Beat UWR Delver 3 times at SCG last week, once in Top 8 even. Multiple Massacres in the board and sticking a Xantid Swarm make the match up easier. I'd rather play UWR Delver than RUG.