What combo decks are you afraid of? High Tide is at an ultimate low, Iggy Pop same thing...The two combo decks, Ichorid and Breakfast are very beatable. Consequently, it seems foolish to hurt a strong deck vs. aggro and aggro/control....
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What combo decks are you afraid of? High Tide is at an ultimate low, Iggy Pop same thing...The two combo decks, Ichorid and Breakfast are very beatable. Consequently, it seems foolish to hurt a strong deck vs. aggro and aggro/control....
You could be fearing TES or Belcher, neither of which are so low as to be ignored ?
Not that I think this deck needs blue (it doesn't).
I don't necessarily think it needs blue. I just think that if Tiago's card sees print as is, that there's a good reason to test it, and that some other ideas as far as splashing blue would be nice to have in the event that it pans out.
In particular, TES seems like a terrible match up (and is played quite often in the North East US). You have what appears to be zero disruption for them game 1, if they have a hand that makes more than 8 EtW tokens on turn one (which is usually the right play against an unknown opponent) your only out is Tabernacle, otherwise, your only chance is that they get the worst hand ever, somehow keep it (ie they're a flat out bad player), and draw poorly too, while you're manlands go beat-down. So you're essentially starting down a game.
If you feel you can chalk up the bad match up and focus on the good match-ups, I suppose I can't argue with that (at least not well), but I figured it couldn't hurt to pick your brain about the deck, as I'm sure you're a better player and deck-builder than I am.
Here's the thing... If you build a blue list, how quickly can you get the land active? Remember, the combo decks that this deck has trouble with are fast, storm combos. You're hand would have to be extremely powerful in order to be quick enough to have the counter online. Consequently, the land interacts quite poorly with one of the engines of the deck - Manabond.
While it seems cool to counter a spell every turn forever, it just isn't feasible, or really necessary. Yes, you have to chalk up TES, Solidarity and Belcher to a bad matchup that is possible beatable post board....
Regards,
Ryan Trepanier
I believe its time to necro this thread,
With morningtide on its way, I wonder if the set could offer us new cards that we could take into consideration.
The two obvious cards that we would of course be Mutavaults and Countryside Crushers.
CSC: Seems to me that on paper Countryside Crusher would be awesome in this deck (for obvious reasons) but the problem with him is that he would probably die even before he does anything. With loads of removal spells in the format how good would he be?
Mutavaults: Would this card find a home in 43 land? and if so, what would we cut for it?
I have tried splashing blue mainly for academy ruins and intuition, I have entirely cut the mulch for them and it works really well.
I believe that the discussion ended with the question if blue should be included in the deck or not, has anybody else has tried the blue splash and how is it working out?
Also does anyone have an updated list?
I haven't done much testing with 43 Land Deck, but I've done lots of work with variations of Di's Eternal Garden deck, and I have to say that blue is incredibly powerful in that kind of deck.
Intuition tutors for three lands of your choice, Gifts gets 4. I've done some testing with Manabond because it makes Ensnaring Bridge really good, but I'm not as fond of it in a deck that actually needs to resolve a few key spells.
So, blue is good, I think. Tutoring for lands of your choice seems much better than just digging through your deck, especially since having mana available shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Mutavault and crusher would change the way the deck plays out, but i think it would change it for the better. You would run a bunch of manlands with the crushers which would give the deck a reasonable aggro gameplan while at the same time taxing the opponent with waste/port/tabernacle. This kind of plan would seem realy strong but it would essentially play out as a new type of deck... sort of like aggro loam but alot more lands and manlands in place of vore and goyf. A crusher, mutavault list would probably look something like this:
// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [ON] Tranquil Thicket
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
4 [UL] Treetop Village
4 [DK] Maze of Ith
2 [JU] Nantuko Monastery
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [ON] Windswept heath
3 [u] Savannah
4 [A] Taiga
1 [RAV] Forest (1)
3 [MOR] Mutavault
// Spells
4 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [EX] Manabond
4 [US] Exploration
4 [MOR] Countryside Crusher
Looks pretty strong.
Good evening to all. I see here are many people who play this deck and are interested in new ideas. Because of this I'll post an engine that I haven't test at all, but which looks powerful as it's possible to put it in the deck [sorry if my english looks gnarled ;)]. Actually, I played monogreen list, and the idea of blue splash meant big work to reconstruct it, but if it's interesting, you can try it yourselves.
So, the idea is the lock of spellweaver helix+mad sorcery[best one is getting additional turn, like walk the aeons as I know]+1 LftL in grave. Why does it mean blue splash? Because of academy ruins. And, most likely, intuition, which calls all the lock pieces to you hand/graveyard. It may be that this reconstruction demand this deck to reduse its ultimative stratagy, because, you see, engine is heavy to be 'invisible' in the deck building and way of playing.
In fact it mean adding:
1-2 'mad sorcery'
1 academy ruins (it can be called by crop rotation, so not more, I think)
1-2 spell weaver helix
hardly recomended - 2-3 intuition (without it other pieces seems to be disuseful*)
And also reducing quantity of mulch and/or manabond.
As an addition, crusible of worlds become more useful with academy ruins and there appears a chance to use any artifact (which can be fetched by intuiton with ruins) if it's necessary - zuran's orb, trinisphere, needle, eng. explosives, etc. But, as I said it's very important not to be carried away with new ideas and safe the deck's advantage which is based on big quantity of lands and their utility. To harmonize two ideas Mirri's Guile can be useful (mostly to understand if it's better to dredge or not).
* And two words about 'disuseful' pieces of the lock. Well, helix can be used also with roar of the wurm. Academy ruins was commented. Walk of aeons? Not very good card, but if it is in your hand, you can play it usually (6 mana in this deck is not a big problem), but really not good. Intuition can fetch you any land (up to 3 lands) or any artifact (with ruins), actually, it was worded two posts above, excluding artifacts.
Mordenkaynen:
I agree with the inclusion of academy ruins and 2-3 pieces of intuition, however, I disagree with the inclusion of spellweaver helix.
The thing is you'll have to have helix target in the graveyard and a copy of it on your hand. and in order to do this you'll need some form of tutoring. Intuition would give you all the the tree combo pieces but more often than not, your opponent would most probably choose to give the helix and then you'll have a target and but have nothing to cast, and then you'll have no way of recurring the spell you have on your yard.
But if you insist on testing it, I suggest you go with the build that runs burning wish and splashes blue for intuition and academy ruins.
Your list would look something like.
4 Burning Wish
4 Manabond
4 Exploration
3 Life from the Loam
2 Intuition
2 Spellweaver Helix
2 Sorceries or whatnot
Keep in mind that as you decrease you land count manabond weakens.
Burning wish lets you run 2 different sorcery spells, and just run the copy on the wishboard, also you could actually imprint the loam and the wish, which seems really strong on theory. Anyway, I don't have the time to test your suggestions, but I believe It could work so please if you have the time you could try it out.
*Note though, maybe the Spellweaver Helix would be better on 5c Enternal Garden rather than this deck?
technogeek5000:
How about tutors?
Also, I would suggest at least +1 Volrath's Stronghold on the main, if you have tested the deck, have you had any problems keeping crusher in play?
@dragzz - May be you didn't understand, I mean that you remove 'mad sorcery' in graveyard, LftL in graveyard and then use Life in hand. In mid-game there is no problem usually to have two Lifes there and other sorcery can be fetched by intuition. What is the problem then?
Sorry my bad. I re-read the text on spellwear helix, I initially thought that you'll should play a copy of the spell you played.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordenkaynen
Seems to have a lot of potential, and could also work even without adding additional sorcery cards, Burning Wish target + LoftL seems to be quite a decent combo already.
Hey, I kind of dabble with this deck a little. I was curious on anyone's thoughts in my build:
Spells:
3x Mulch
3x Crucible of Worlds
3x Gamble
4x Exploration
4x Manabond
4x Life From the Loam
Lands:
1x Forgotten Cave
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Nantuko Monastery
1x Tabernacle
1x Glacial Chasm
2x Savannah
2x Barbarian Ring
3x Tranquil Thicket
3x Treetop Village
4x Taiga
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Rishadan Port
4x Windswept Heath
4x Maze of Ith
4x Wasteland
SB:
1x Ghost Quarter
3x Ray of Revalation
3x Ancient Grudge
4x Ghostly Prison
4x Chalice of the Void
I REALLY like Crucible of Worlds in the main, against a lot of decks, Glacial Chasm just wins and playing Crucible is like playing +3 Lftl and just makes the lock that much easier. I have not tried the Burning Wish idea but I personally just like Crucible, it seems a natural fit in the deck. Also, this deck is fitted to suit my local meta which has a TON of graveyard hate and I just feel safer running Crucible. I was curious what anyone would think to cut in my main to try and fit in 2x Zuran Orb. I have found myself wanting that card a number of different times. I tried Nomad Stadium but just never liked it much. Regarding the sideboard, I HAVE to have the 3x Grudge and 3x Ray cause my meta randomly has Worship and Solitary Confinement as well as a TON of Affinity. However I would really like to fit Pithing Needle or Rule of Law into the side, any suggestions?
from experience I believe running 1 Crucible + 1 Academy Ruins is better that running 3. Also academy ruins lets you run a single EE or any artifact you wish without worrying about them ending up in the graveyard.
I almost have the same list as yours except that I run
-2 Crucible + 1 Academy Ruins + 1 EE
-1 Savannah + 1 Riftstone Portal
-1 Forgotten Cave + 1 Tranquil Thicket
-1 Ghost Quarter -1 Treetop Village 2 + Tropical Islands
------------------------------------------------------------
On the other hand. I have been trying to fit Countryside Crusher into the deck, it seems to be harder that it looks. The deck was designed to run without creatures and placing them in greatly affects the way the deck is suppose to work. But they are just far to strong to be ignored.
Anyway,
I have always been an advocate of running blue for intuition and it seems that with Countryside Crusher this would be the best approach for the deck.
Here's my proposed list:
Non-Land Cards
4 Manabond
4 Exploration
3 Life from the Loam
3 Gamble
3 Intuition
2 Mulch
Creature
3 Countryside Crusher(could be adjusted +/- 1)
Artifacts
1 EE
1 Crucible/Tormods...etc
37 Lands
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Taiga
1 Volcanic Island
2 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Tabernacle
4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Maze of Ith
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Academy Ruins
1 Petrified Field
1 Barbarian Ring
This list runs only 37 Lands which obviously weakens manabond.
Thoughts?
I think you're too vulnerable for Swords, looking at the Crusher. In times of like 3 different Landstill builts, that all have Deeds or EEs aditionally, i don't think that Countryside Crusher is too much of a good option for this deck. I'd honestly run it if my meta was Burn and/or BYEs.
What, if you run 3 and dredge 1 away, and necessarily throw one into the Bond, out of the situation? Or you try to tutor it up with Gamble and fail (by discarding it).
I don't think it is very smart to play him.
Something else:
Can't somebody come up with some more traditional list? I mean without this blue splash, that makes this deck just worse than the Eternal Garden imo.
Or is the Splash really necessary to play this deck in a competitive way?
I really think this deck should run at least one black manasource to support Stronghold.Quote:
Originally Posted by dragzz
You lose to Blood Moon and Magus.
I think that scapeshift might be a good card in the aggro matchup. Since you can drop it turn 2, you can just scape into a bunch of manlands, Mazes, or a Tabernacle, and go from there.
You know, with the printing of Scapeshift, I wonder if a list with Recoup, Scapeshift, and Mulch might be the way to go.
Though, it'd take 8 mana to play Scapeshift this way, being able to replace all 8 lands with your choice of brokenness might be what this deck needs.
-T
:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by FredMaster
Here and Here.
I think Crusher is a pretty good SB tech, as many Decks will board out Creaturehate against you (of course not all because of the Manlands) but after Boarding their Removalpackage should be minimized.
I guess every 42/43 Lands.dec has the following Core:
4 Exploration
4 Manabond
4 LftL
3-4 Gamble
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Maze of Ith
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Riftstone Portal
3-4 Treetop Villages
3-4 Nantuko Monastery
3-4 Tranquil Thicket
4 Fetches, usual 2 Heath 2 Foothills
3-4 Taiga
3-4 Savannah
When always choosing the lowest number, 8 slots remain. In my version I went +1 Gamble, +1 Village, +1 Monastery, +1 Thicket and plus 1 Savannah. This leaves three open slots which are occupied (in my version) with 1 Barbarian Ring and 1 Keldon Megaliths and one open slot.
My current Sideboard:
4 Pull from Eternity (secret tech against sucking Extirpates)
4 Crusher (secret tech, posted above)
4 Chalice (pesky Combo, but this won't improve that Matchup much I think)
3 Ancient Grudge (sucking Chalice @ 2 or so)
Let me hear what you think.