Printable View
Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
He was merely recalling something he played years ago, offering an example. I think Admiral_Arzar (and everyone else for that matter) is well aware of our superior Wincon :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=85807
Another top8 for Lands!
Only two K-grips in the siepsde, but three Seals of Primordium. Is Thai texk against Blood Moon? Play it off a dual land and activate it later without needed a Mox or Forest? Otherwise an interesting list. Karakas main, along with Quarter, Bog, and Canopy. Running only three fetches, one Ticket, and there PFires to make space I guess. Only the four Spheres, plus a Chalice and a Needle.
Seals are for ambushing Omniscience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimhead
It also combos well with Manabond if you run them together.
Why not. But still, it seems weaker than Krosan Grip to me, even against Omniscience: If they S&T into Omni, it doesn't matter at all that you have Krosan in hand or Seal in play via S&T: both are not counterable, but at least, K-Grip has split second which can avoid the guys to go for the full instant combo via Wish into Firemind's Foresight for example. And against Miracle, K-Grip is just much better, especially because a 2CMC is easily counterable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokugawa
I mean, GG to this guys for the sweet achievement, but definetly, you guys shouldn't go for Primeordial Seal if you don't allready play the K-Grip playset (imho)!
In the omniscience match-up you need to hold your lands up for that for Grip AKA not using ports so Grip and Ports conflict post sideboard a lot of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkgobs
Seals are worse in the Miracle match up for sure but if you practice the match-up you can play under the Counter Top lock reasonably well if you can't stick a Seal early.
Seal is fine if you want a proactive take on the match ups - I don't think i would run them, maybe one misers copy isn't a bad idea.
Thanks guys!
Came across this MU between Takano Shigeki(MUD Post) and Takahashi Tetsuhiro(Lands), the link taking you to the first game of three.
And even better: this MU between Matsuo Yoshiyuki(Lands) and Saitou Nobuo(Omni-Tell) (again, link to first game). I personally think it's SnT splashing Omniscience, though.
Enjoy.
Haha, there is a MUD player at my local shop and every single game feels like it goes like that first video.
If you've some Spheres they'll have a really tough time to combo at instant speed. Sure they can hardcast Emrakul but Krosan Grip doesn't prevent it either and luckily, the deck can frequently survive against an hardcast Emrakul especially if you destroy Omniscience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkgobs
So... aren't we saying the same thing? Against instand speed combo with Omniscience, K-Grip is better than Seal. Against Emrakul hardcasted it almost doesn't change anything (K-Grip still beeing better, cuz they can Trickbind your Seal, while they can't do anything against K-Grip). So what's your point exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Varal
Is anyone else finding that this decks combo matchup is not as nearly bad as it should be? Reanimator/Elves is a favorable matchup, storm seems to be a straight race and show and tell is also just a race most of the time. They have to have the counter for the gamble/crop rotation/sphere and also hope we don't draw/loan into the combo naturally while also finding their own combo pieces.
I am not saying Omnitel/storm are easy matchups by any means, I just thought they would be harder pre and post board.
That being said I would play more manabonds and the 4th depths if I thought combo was a heavy presence and I still wanted to play lands.
I am a fucking lucksack against Storm. Since they have only bounce spells and no counters, you can drop a lock early and force them to dig in a manner that is preferable to your game plan then theirs. (They are looking for answers and shuffling away kills) Against anything with counters who knows what the hell they are doing though, I find they cause issues. Unless your looking at a first turn Lock piece or dropping something though SnT they have an advantage on you. Even then, they have an advantage on you.
I feel like the price of Tabernacle really does a kind of dual edged effect on the deck. Only the really dedicated play this and only the really dedicated test against it. The price if the Tabernacle keeps the player count low and as an effect keeps our "Unknown" factor high. At the end of the day though, this I feel is changing as we keep doing well.
I'm glad that someone else thinks that combo match-ups aren't that impossible for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
I'd say that Reanimator is favored, but their countermagic can fuck our Crop-into-Bojuka plan up. Karakas (especially) and Maze are a true blessing, but Tidespout Tyrant can caught you off-guard. Overall, I'd say it's not favoured; it's balanced.
Against elfe, the Crop-into-Tabernacle is the win-plan, but on the other hand, they run the only card that directly counter Tabernacle : Gaea's Cradle. They also have a lot of mana-producer elves, which, if in play, can make the Tabernacle not that amazing. Chasm can also be overpassed by Deathrite with multiples activations. It depends also a lot of the list their playing: with or without Scavenging Ooze? You have to be quick, because they can kill you T3-T4 quite often. As you said, it's a race.
Against storm.deck and OmniTell, pre-board it's about winning the dice / comboing really quick. Post-board, it's about taxing effect followed by asap-combo. Sphere T1-T2 is the best play you can pull (ok, T1 manabound into full combo + enough mana for T1 activation is nice too :tongue:).
Overall, I would say the most important things against combo are:
1) Reconize what you're playing against as quickly as possible, so that you can react approprietly (rush the combo plan, or mana-lock them until you can do it).
2) G2-G3 or if you know what you're up against G1, keep a good hand. Aggressives mulligan are really vital and often brought me 5-cards winning hand. Again, Sphere of Resistance are OP against almost all combo decks.
Combo (except Dredge) are really negative to fair Match-Ups, depending a lot of the combo faced and our openning hand. So the legends saying that Land is a bye for all combo decks is totally wrong. But let's be honest; it's not in our favor, and imho by no means positive (but maybe Elfe indeed ?).
I don't like to play Combo, but with six Sphere-effects I would say it's a bit better.
@ Dice_Box: I see where you going at, but I have to comment: as we know, Tabernacle is on the reserve list, and will always be very very pricy. That being said, only us dedicated few will invest or have invested. Even if we/ the deck will perform above average there will still be very few players of this deck. In a fair meta we will always have chance, because noone will dedicate slots in the SB, unless it's in their colors/ there will be a new sort Tabernacle printed (which will never happen)
Agree. But at the same time, we are not playing 3 Underground Sea... which is about the same amount of money as 1 Tabernacle is. If players have money to buy a BUG or an ANT, they also have money for land. The only thing beeing that Tabernacle is indeed only played in Land.deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
Anyone have luck with multiple coursers against grave hate? Helps you cut through the crap and always know when business is on the top of your library?
Played this sb in a small tournament yesterday:
1 Bojuka Bog (Karakas main)
2 Titania, Protector of Argoth
2 Choke
2 Trinisphere
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Krosan Grip
Maindeck was David Long's list -1 Crop Rot. +1 Ghost Quarter.
4 Rounds: beat Jund, Grixis Control, Show and Tell, Burn.
Got to fiddle around with Titania a bit...and she's not that great unfortunately. I played vs decks like Grixis or Canadian & she folds to Lightning Bolt.
The only time you can savely play her is with a Karakas up. I mean when you have a fetchland to get back it's obviously still awesome since you get the 5/5 token trigger no matter what. Note: that is when they don't respond to Titania's first trigger which most people WILL forget.
But...I think I'd rather have P.Titan or Garruk Primal Hunter vs Miracles.
Maybe 1 Boseiju / 1 Primeval Titan in that slot. Otherwise this sideboard feels very nice, Trinisphere is great.
Yes, but lots of players have U.Seas they bought for $15.00. Seas are abundant and can readily be gotten locally. One can even use traders or store credit at a LGS. The deck also has a narrow appeal, so not everybody wants to play it in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkgobs
We are very lucky, though. People may be wanting to test the match, to prepare that way, but they are going to hard pressed to alter their card and/or deck selection based on a match they are likely to dodge. No matter how strong or well positioned the deck is, we will never be public enemy number one.
I'm sleaving up r/g for the first time this afternoon, wish me luck!
Hi guys, I have all pieces for the Lands decks except the Tabernacle. Luckily I've sold my playset of U.Sea so I can buy one. I've been playing HexmageDepths until now and I love killing with 20/20 as well as ruining my opponent's game (my 2nd deck is DnT). Lands fuses both parts together. Question is: is the lands deck worth playing in meta full of delvers, stoneblades, lot of miracles and significant amount of combo decks? What is the plan against Miracles and how is the matchup? It's a deck I am most concerned with.
Delver and stoneblade are great matchups. Miracles is fine so long as you don't get stuck behind Jace or a counterbalance with top and a 2 CMC card floating. Combo is beatable but not pleasant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lio
My plan against Miracles is to play the mana denial game with Rishadan Port and try to sneak a Choke into play. Use Krosan Grip to blow up Counterbalance and leave some number of Punishing Fire to kill their creatures and Jace. Primeval Titan also comes in (I'm considering a s/b Cavern of Souls).
@ Lio: (almost everything) what barcode said, depending on which type of Miracles I also board Sphere-effects in.
@ barcode: regarding P-time and CoS: wouldn't Boseiju be easier vs. Miracles? Only one SB-slot, instead of two. Granted, P-time is also damage.
@ Crimhead: welcome and good luck!
I already play Primeval Titan. For me Cavern would be the same as Boseiju. Boseiju suffers the same problem as many other sideboard cards people want which rely on the graveyard: They are hosed by Relic of Progenitus and Rest in Peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
edit: I understand Boseiju can be useful to REALLY make sure that K-Grip is uncountered but you have to get a really savvy Miracles player to leave a 3 on top all the time. I worry that paying 2 life every time for Loam is really bad value.
Well, this makes sense, both your choice and your given scenario. However, you could of course bait the Miracles-player (unless he's really savvy 😄), then play K-Grip.Quote:
Originally Posted by barcode
Could you tell us a bit more about that please?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkgobs
Instead of bringing it to you straight, I would recommand start reading this article.
As you can read, both versions are light on lands (the Ponder-version also being light on creatures), so attacking their manabase seems reasonable. Filtering for land usually means searching for lands (21-23), so Wasteland, Port, and Quarter, together with Sphere-effects (and Choke) can do the trick. All in all, it's a hard MU, but I found this being a strategy I can live with.
I must admit that I do not check the Miracles-thread on a daily basis, and so don't know how much of this is still relevant.
EDIT: I understand there is more to it than just attacking their lands 😊
@ Chatto: thank you for your answer and the article! =)
Hey everyone! Ive been reading this forum for a while and finally signed up to post. I built R/G lands with lots of proxies along the way, and have read the lions share of this thread in the process.
I grabbed this bad boy two weeks ago just in time to play at SCG Indy:
http://imgur.com/zQWUYT2
Anyone else playing in Indianapolis this weekend (june 21st)? My build is pretty close to the list David Long played, and my big lack is more sphere effects for the sideboard. Id like a trinisphere, but a local MUD player just bought them up, and I dont have time to get anything shipped to me at this point. Ah well.
Ill post a tourney report when I get home from the event.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimoirePath
Hi GrimoirePath, welcome! I seem to have problems seeing your picture, but if I should guess: it's a Tabernacle? :smile:
Talking about MUD: yesterday I had a little get-together with friends, playtesting for GP Lille. So I was playing against MUD, and got my ass kicked... G1: Chalice on two, G2: Blood Moon... I also made a HUGE mistake by not using Ghost Quarter on my OWN land, leaving me with K-Grip in my hand... Just one of those days...
It is indeed a picture of my Tabernacle. English, good shape, and under five hundred bucks. I played my deck without it at a twelve person LGS tourney, and saw several games where it would have been so choice (games i lost). Im super stoked to finally have the capstone to the deck.
Do you ever try boarding in boseiju against mud for the chalice on two?
I have not done that no, but as a play I can see the advantage. I think if you did that though the line would be that you would Dredge until you have three targets you need (or some number of Wasteland) and then use it then. I would not want to play 2 life against MUD without really getting the max I can put of the deal. They can hit hard.
I feel overall though, I think I am going to go back to the EE main with Ruins I was playing a couple of months back. Buried Ruins this time. I think it's a great balance against some of the harder matches and it opens up some sideboard options.
Hi Dice, Would you mind sharing that decklist? Really interested in all kinds of R/G Lands decklists =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
Can't get enough of this awesome legacy deck :D
Last time I ran the artifact build I ran this:Quote:
Originally Posted by DML
This time I am going to drop the Blue, add in Buried Ruins and likely running my current Sideboard. I am just testing things out, I really do not like running the deck without Manabond so its kind of a take it or leave it situation. Will see how it goes.Quote:
Instants [8]
4 Crop Rotation
4 Punishing Fire
Sorceries [8]
4 Gamble
4 Life from the Loam
Enchantments [4]
4 Exploration
Artifacts [6]
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Zuran Orb
4 Mox Diamond
Lands [34]
1 Academy Ruins
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Maze of Ith
2 Taiga
3 Dark Depths
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Rishadan Port
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland
Sideboard
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Dark Depths
1 Karakas
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Krosan Grip
4 Sphere of Resistance
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Choke
1 Primeval Titan
I've posted before that I've had 2 Primeval Titans in my sideboard and I cut them today plus the second Chalice of the Void to try out three Goblin Rabblemaster.
The Rabblemasters were merely okay. They do provide a threat which is capable of ending the game all on their own fairly quickly (one damage then six, then eight, then ten.) but it's pretty fragile. It doesn't necessarily provide the "over the top" threat like Primeval Titan is. However, Rabblemaster costs three mana, not six.
I continue to have trouble with Omnishow.
Why isnt Ghost Quarter played in RG lands?
Plenty of people play it, especially when miracles is popular.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/294509#online
Here is a recent list, in this case it looks like he cut a fetch/taiga for it which is fairly normal. Some people would probably choose to move bojuka bog or karakas to the side instead but it's all just tweaking your lands until you are comfortable. I like having access to my bullets game one since I'm a forgetful idiot who crop rotates for cards that are in my board so I rarely move things like that to the side and instead find room elsewhere.
Tried Rabblemaster a couple of months ago, but found it's aggresive 'must attack'-clausule in conflict with the whole deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by barcode
I have six Sphere-effects and tested against Omnitell: only taxing will do so much. You really need a fast clock. Rabblemaster in theory should work alongside them, never tested that idea.
I added REBs to the board (1 to start, now 2) but I might just change them to Trinispheres. They have more application across matchups, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
Rabblemaster is pretty fast and I was able to use it to crush the mirror.
Got my butt kicked with RG lands in Indy on sunday. I accept full responsibility for shitty play. I just need to run the deck a LOT more against various archetypes to know what my strategy should be in each game. I found punishing fire to be kind of in the way in a lot of hands, but thats likely just due to what i played against.
I need to know when to race for Lage and when to establish a prison. I also need to more proactively seek G. chasm.
I think the best SB plan for Omni is Trinisphere + Choke. Don't play either of them until they go for a Show and Tell. When they SnT, put in Trinisphere. Unless they're at 6 mana (unlikely due to ports etc) they have to pass the turn. You can then play Choke without fear of FoW thanks to 3sphere. This should lock them out.Quote:
Originally Posted by barcode
Sometimes they probe you and see this plan, but it buys you a lot of time in that case then as they have to get to 6 mana.