Yeah!, now we are talking!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
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Yeah!, now we are talking!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
I've been playing Gitrog too and although I find him amazing, I'm pretty sure that you only draw one card if more than one land hit the yard at the same time, look carefully at the wording.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple Blood
Wow. Good to know. I assumed since they were happening one after the other they didn't technically occur at the same times. I've dredged a few times during small tournaments with Gitrog on the board and no one "stopped" me from doing that. Either way, a draw 5 is still back breaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lueseto
You guys thinking about crop rotation, dark depths, andor Loam really should give the Dragon Fit list a try. Playset of Intuition holds everything together so well. If you replaced Dromoka and Ojutai with non-white dragons then I could see a list stretching to include Depths and Stage. Or perhaps eschew Haven and dragons for a Marit Lage entirely. Right now I'm not convinced that's an improvement however. They allow for a good game on our side even if the opp has grave hate.
Took Nyx Fit to a tournament today, lost in top 8 but did pretty well overall. Deck was sweet.
- Lost to DnT, never got going
- Beat Storm (won both sideboarded games), Spirit of the Labyrinth is awesome)
- Beat 4c Loam (Doomwake kills all his lands both games, if they don't lock us out with Chalice/Waste they just fold)
- Beat DnT (making land drops is good, Doomwake / Curse is so good against them)
- Beat DnT - same guy as round one - lots of grinding but Starfield and Doomwake overpowered him
- Lost to BUG - Games 2 and 3 he made an unanswered JTMS and FoWed every relevant spell I cast - deck might want another answer to Jace or two. Might just want to board in Leyline of Sanctity though.
Aid from the Cowl was underwhelming - I never wanted to Rector or Grove it and it wasn't impressive when it got cast. Should probably be another Nissa.
Chromanticore was okay - won some games on his own, sat in hand and probably lost me a game against BUG, when Sigarda would have been great.
Collective Brutality was excellent all day, totally should stay in even if Chromanticore gets dropped. Killed Thalias, duressed Storm cards and Forces, and killed Veteran and Rector in an emergency.
Nyx Weaver was fine, but nothing impressive. Didn't play against anyone where the Reach was any good though.
Deck could do with more answers to JTMS. Might try swapping Aid for a second Nissa VF, since hasty pressure is so good.
Congrats on the great run! Could you describe your games against Storm and how you stabilized vs. Loam if you get a chance?Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
Whenever I give something other than Sneak a try, I'm going to have a hard time deciding between Loam / Dragons and Nyx, they both sound like a ton of fun.
Storm - game 1 I had zero discard spells in hand and did nothing to him till he killed me on turn four. Game 2 I therapied LED (miss, saw a ritual, a couple cantrips and infernal tutor), then made Spirit of the Labyrinth on turn two. He did nothing for a few turns, I made Rector and flashbacked Therapy for Infernal finding Leyline of Sanctity. Beat him to death with SotL. Game 3 I had turn one Leyline of the Void into turn two Spirit of the Labyrinth and beat him to death while he didn't do anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by gth842s
Loam I made sure to cast Explorer first (before he made chalicd) since I could still cast Therapy into chalice if I really needed to sacrifice stuff. Game 1 Rector into Doomwake killed a pair of bobs, Deed swept up his KotR and eventually I found a Living Plane. Game two was basically the same, only I got Starfield which made his Liliana pretty bad looking. I assembled Starfield + Deed to keep him locked out for a while, found a Living Plane to Armageddon with Deed, then then beat him to death with a Chromanticore.
Hey. I played DNSolver's list in yesterdays fnm. Went 2-2 with
R1: D&T 0-2
Abysmal starting hands followed by abysmal mulligan hands (wrong/no lands). Went down to 4 twice without stuff to do.
G1 I somehow recovered, but far too late. G2 I faced a turn 3 Mirran Crusader and couldn't assemble a fast deed.
R2: Enchantress 2-1
G1 I have early decays followed by 2 deeds. Master does the beatdown.
G2 I Lost Legacy his Angel producing enchantment (1), and see 2 Elspeth and an Emrakul in his library as the remaining Win cons. I find no deed and he assembles a strong defense to win with Elspeth.
G3 Like G1.
R3: Grixis Delver with TNN 0-2
G1 back and forth. I play a Nissa into a Spell Pierce and later he overpowers me with Pyromancer Tokens and TNN. I missed Thragtusk.
G2 I had 2 Explorers on board and never got rid of them. 2 Wastelands screw me and TNN beats me to death.
R4: BR Reanimator 2-0
G1 he gets an early Iona. I got an early Karakas and discard his reanimation spells (Therapy-Explorer) and Zenith for an Ooze to victory.
G1 he gets a T2 Griselbrand with Reanimate (=only 1 Grisel activation left). I play something like 2 Explorers, 2 Therapies followed by Maelstrom Pulse -> He Grisels, is on 5. I Ooze to win again.
slightly changed SB (no Spheres):
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Lost Legacy
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Duress
2 Choke
2 Pithing Needle
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Thragtusk
Now that I have a bit of a feeling for the list, I will do some minor alterations. Btw: I hate losing to TNN, but I guess I'm not the only one ^^.
My proposition:
-1 Maze of Ith
-1 Swamp
+1 Plains
+1 Savannah
Switch the threats to Sigarda and Rhino instead of Thrun and Master?
Not sure yet, but I would try to add white since I already play a Karakas :)
Hello to everybody: i've missed Magic in the last six years and now i find this new topic, great work (the only thing that confused me is the lack of Zimmerman Brug pod list in the OP, i think it's the biggest results of Nic Fit since 2014....).
Anyway, i remember in the former topic the first lists of Nyx Fit, but now i'm going to test it seriously: a question, have Heliod and Primal order been considered?
Heliod is okay, but has a few issues. He's a card advantage / value engine, but making a 2/1 or two each turn is just less impressive than Starfield in the slot. Against the kind of deck where a few 2/1s is relevant, we probably just want Doomwake Giant or Starfield. Doomwake gives us better board presence and Starfield gives us better grinding power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memories of the Time
Primal Order is something I should probably give a try. In particular, it's an enchantment which can be searched up and kills Planeswalkers, which is actually pretty important. It might be too risky as a clock on ourselves though - Nyx doesn't have much lifegain in the deck normally. I'm thinking about trying a red splash out, there's a lot of good R cards available - top of the list being Assemble the Legion, which is my next try at a starfield-style advantage engine which isn't graveyard dependent. Blood Moon could also be good, access to red makes Chromanticore closer to castable, and there are a few other enchantments around which are probably worth testing too.
I don'w want to play less than 2 Starfield anyway, Heliod should be in the place of Sigarda/Chromanticore (can't understand why the latter, incastable without gsz and often worse than Sigarda).Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
I've played Primal Order in other Nic Fit shells and i've liked it. Vs Miracle and other decks is often enough to close the game in 2/3 turns and kills pw, obviously.
About classic lists: i can't really understand Eidolon and Giant.
I mean, they both have many props, clear. But they are high cc creatures without protection and with very little impact on the board/no impact (blossom).
What makes them playable in this deck (i mean, over similar cards like CoDH for the giant) is sterling grove, that i've found fuc*ing amazing: why not 4? it's the perfect setup, tutor, the first one is often decayed... In this way i would find the ench-creatures very reasonable, probably trying to develop constellation with Weights and so on.
Otherwise, are you satisfied with these cards? I mean, for example, that Living Plane+Curse is a gg, living+giant leaves the possibility for stp (e.g Miracle) if we can't find an ench.
Splash: I'm in love with Zur's Weirding if we can consider blue: a total gg against most of Combo e Miracle/slower decks.
Chromanticore is better than Sigarda if your life total is under pressure much of the time, and he also gives us a card we can fetch with Rector that gets work done on its own rather than requiring more combo pieces (in hand / graveyard). He's got Shroud with a Sterling Grove, so a lot of the time he's just as survivable as Sigarda is. He's also a flying blocker we can recur with Starfield which is relevant against Marit Lage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memories of the Time
I haven't tested Primal Order, so I can't argue that one. I'll give it a try sometime.
Doomwake has protection in that he's a 4/6 for 5, which is basically immune to everything except STP (Decay/Push/Bolt/Dismember/etc), and also gets Shroud from Sterling Grove again. I'm also not sure how you can describe him as 'low impact on the board' when he kills a lot of the creatures in Legacy at the moment, and blocks those he doesn't. Being a creature also makes him significantly more castable against Thalia. Living Plane + Doomwake is also more reliable than you think, because if you sweep Miracles' lands, they can't drop a Plains and Swords Doomwake because their land has summoning sickness, so you get a turn to play an enchantment and kill their land before they can cast anything.
Eidolon is pretty vulnerable and to be honest I don't tutor for it very often, it might well get dropped for a different card advantage engine if I can find one that's good enough. I am very satisfied with Doomwake and definitely wouldn't drop it - I play Doomwake main and Curse of Death's Hold in the sideboard, because there are some matchups where Curse is completely useless but Doomwake is always at least a 4/6 beater who can apply pressure at worst.
Might give Zur's Weirding a shot. It's only good if you're ahead on the board, though, which means you'd need to have something to attack Miracles with in addition to Weirding (or a CA engine).
Sterling Grove is great against interactive decks and when you have time to durdle, but it's an awful mana sink against agressive / combo decks. A lot of the time most of your enchantments are already resilient by virtue of being noncreature permanents with >3 CMC, so you don't lose them to much anyway.
I can't see Nyx Fit working without at least one Eidolon of Blossoms. Agree with above on everything else. But landing the blossoms is similar to tracker albeit safe from abrupt decay, has to be answered or else you drawback many cards. Parallax Wave plus her is also another angle. She turns gsz here into card advantage.
Clearer now =)
What i feel after the first bounch of games is, really, the lack of Brainstorm. And i've played pod versions often without them, but here... i really miss them: high density of high cc cards, often redundant ( 4 copies of rector, 3 of grove + Sigarda/trug/chromant/eidolon/giant). Anyway, with towers we can't add another colour beside for a splash, i fear. The only possibility could be the total cut of Tower, in favour of 21 colored lands, 3 drs and 4 explorer as other 4c nic fits.
Anyway, a card that could lower the curve and give flesibility could be Eladamri's Call/Diabolic Intent: i'm trying a 2/2 split with Rector, but obviously you need other targets for it that you can't grab with gsz.
I've run 4c nic fit with 2 drs/4 vet/1 tower/20 colored lands before. It's not that bad, though both the non-GB colours were only represented on 6-8 cards, with no double colours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memories of the Time
I don't think Brainstorm being missing is that much of a problem really. One of the major smoothers is Collective Brutality - it's a good way of pitching excess stuff we don't want immediately, especially since we have recursion.
Multiple Rectors are basically never a problem and I'm usually happy to have them. Tower naturally makes it better, though. IMO there is very little reason to go below 4 rectors in this deck, he's just so powerful. I'd consider adding a Diabolic Intent in addition to the Rectors, but only if there's some specific combo you wanted to find reliably.
When we are already running 4 rector 4 cabal and 3 towers + veteran, couldn't Omniscence/emrakul find two slots with Diabolic Intent?
I mean, it's very nice turtling with Nyx and grove, but omniscence... you can't even discard it with Collective and then use Nyx. Same for Emrakul, if it's in your hand, discard/shuffle and go. Anyway i find difficult to think about losing when you have omniscence in play with this deck
Feel free to experiment with the deck. By all means, we could use more people playing around with it. If you feel that Omni + Emrakul could perform better then go for it and let us know how it goes. My love for Sneak Fit comes from the fact that it can win games quickly out of nowhere - if you can find similar speedy combos in other shells then heck yea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memories of the Time
From my experience working with the deck, the first Rector tutor is usually for something to control the board. If you haven't found a Deed in the early game then this means potentially landing Doomwake, Curse, Humility, Deed depending on what I have in hand, boardstate, etc. Typically the first tutor HAS to be something that immediately impacts the board since the builds I've played have reduced amount of removal. Doomwake, for instance, has the potential to wipe an opponent's board, keep you safe as a blocker (granted you have a Grove out), and requires a single followup card (Living Plane which is fetchable from an excess Grove) to shut out the game. Extremely versatile. Curse, Humility, P Wave can do similar effects against various opponents. Sometimes all you need to do is Deed wipe the opponents board and then present a loop with it and Starfield to win against any fair-ish matchups. Combo matchups typically have some easily sideboardable card to basically end the game on the spot. (Between Leyline Void/Sanctity and Humility). In those situations, one Rector tutor is usually enough and buys you plenty of time to land other hate.
Personally I like having a few "immediately change the game and win" cards in the deck that put you significantly ahead if they land, and definitively in a winning position with the help of another card. Deed + Starfield, Doom/Curse + Humility/LP, etc.
I have been reluctant to try out Diabolic Intent since it requires 6 mana on field to keep Rector safe from StP or a soon-to-be untapped Deathrite. Therapy is typically free (tap all 4 of your lands, cast Rector, then sac it for free), and Tower means you need 5 mana to immediately tutor something. Against any deck with white, I would not want to count on rector surviving a turn. The deck also plays less creatures than other Nic Fit variants, so Intent could get stuck in hand.
For Nyx fit decks has Daxos's Torment ever been contemplated?
A 5/5 hasty dude for 4 seems pretty reasonible.
We are already running 1-2 Nissa for the hasty effect, but it's a neat idea. I -think- it works well under Humility as well, at least if you play it after Humility. Lay down Humility, then play this guy and he becomes a 5/5 hasty flyer on that same turn since he entered last and his ability would overrule Humility's. Humility buys you a lot of time and this guy could close out a game very quickly under that effect. Glad to see it is safe from Karakas, Decay, stays safe from targeting in general with a Grove out.Quote:
Originally Posted by moseby
It's one I've been thinking about. Mainly because it kills planeswalkers and interacts positively with Humility. The problem is, though, it's only a persistent threat if you have other enchantments in hand or ways of searching for them - but in that scenario you're probably better off getting one half of one of the combos in the deck and ending the game that way, since very few of the enchantments you could have in your hand aren't also part of one of the combos in the deck, or a way of searching for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by square_two
Trying to find a way to make Solitary Confinement work, but I think Contamination and Energy Field are closer to the mark. There's just no way of recurring Confinement that's actually good enough. It's a pity they were so careful to make Skybind balanced, and there aren't enough good cyclers to enable Astral Slide.
Square are you currently playing nyx fit online? I want to play test against it [emoji4]
I have taken it through a few leagues online but haven't done much in the past month. I'm usually free most evenings if you'd like to see how it goes - just pm me and we can find a good time. Out of the small number of games I've done online, 2 or 3 could have possibly been won based on better decision making or by taking a different line. It's different than Sneak that I'm used to. Whatever you first tutor with Rector is pretty decisive.Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
With an upcoming Win a Lotus tournament in April, I'd like to check out the Dragon Fit list a bit more and run it through some leagues even if it is a bit of an investment to do so. Stryfo mentioned adding a Nephalia's Drownyard in his side for Miracles. And that sounds a bit delicious. Intuition -> Loam/Drownyard/Raven's Crime?
Nyx - I think I'm going to try cutting Eidolon of Blossoms. It's a card advantage engine, but it has anti-synergy with Spirit of the Labyrinth, is vulnerable to most removal, and I'm pretty much never interested in Zenithing or Rectoring for it. It also opens me up to play Spirit of the Labyrinth maindeck, which is something I've been thinking about trying for a while with Leovold everywhere. SotL also gives me more relevant plays against Miracles and Storm, along with providing an actual clock.
However this does have a minor problem, which is that I end up with nothing I can Rector for which actually provides card advantage / grinding power. Starfield is great, but there's a couple issues there - primarily that it needs good targets, or it's just going to do very little. It's not a particularly powerful early play. I hoped Aid from the Cowl would fill the slot, but it's not consistent enough. I think I'm going to give Deadbridge Chant a try, since it enables itself (and Starfield) without outside help, and importantly it doesn't get turned off by Spirit of the Labyrinth.
With Deadbridge and Nyx Weaver in the deck, there's potential to run more effects that come back from the graveyard. Not sure if there's any good enough targets that do what the deck wants to do, though. I'd really like to get the second SotL into the maindeck, but I don't think there's anything I'm happy to drop other than potentially the fourth Zenith, but I don't think that is worth it.
Current list:
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
1 Nyx Weaver
4 Academy Rector
1 Doomwake Giant
1 Chromanticore
3 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Collective Brutality
1 Nissa, Vital Force
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sterling Grove
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Deadbridge Chant
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Living Plane
1 Parallax Wave
3 Phyrexian Tower
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
Sideboard:
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Humility
1 Seal of Primordium
1 City of Solitude
1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Courser of Kruphix (something for aggressive decks)
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Leyline of the Void
Just go ahead and throw in maindeck Carpets along with those Spirit of the Labyrinths..."The Gods Hate Blue" Nyx Fit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
I have to admit, some of those ideas sound a bit too gimmicky. Why not just a 4th Sterling Grove instead of that 6 drop enchantment. Protects stuff, and starts the engine going if you have Starfield out. Not sure I want a 6-drop that basically only mills 10...I don't think rector activations can be wasted on anything that doesn't impact the board or setup a lock (Starfield usually being a secondary target when I play). But I think you are becoming the main guy with experience on the deck, so I'll try to think about what you are suggesting.
Small part of me wants to jam 4 Rhinos, 1 Deranged Hermit, and a single Skybind. But I think that ship sailed in a different format sometime during Khans era. Heliod God is pretty neat there though...
To be honest, Skybind + Eternal Witness + anything that sacrifices itself would be awesome. Might make a reasonable secondary Deed combo, although it's probably just worse than Starfield since it's vulnerable to removal, needs more cards, and means you have to Deed in your own turn. As far as graveyard synergy goes, Crop Sigil might be okay too - it's nice and cheap, good with SDT, and a pretty nice engine with Starfield. It's a bit awkward in available targets, not being able to return enchantments or planeswalkers, but still potentially quite effective if we warp the deck enough to reliably get Delirium, which is the tough bit. We can get creature/land/enchantment, but then we're down to just a couple instants and sorceries, and a few tops and planeswalkers. Not many numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by square_two
If you have any suggestions for Deadbridge style stuff, I'm all ears. I'm looking for something I can fetch up when I'm not under immediate pressure, which doesn't die to standard removal, and generates advantage even if I don't have any immediate followup / synergy to go with it, like Starfield needs.
I don't know if this is the right thread but, looking at today's metagame/DtB section, a Birthing Pod deck looks like a great choice. Specifically, with the proliferation of Monastery Mentor and True-Name Nemesis, Minister of Pain and Orzhov Pontiff are fantastic and no deck can play them better than Birthing Pod or Collected Company. Additionally, 4 Baleful Strixes, infinite bodies, and infinite removal gives great game against the remaining aggro and aggro-control decks of the format. I was talking to a friend yesterday and these are some cards we considered (numbers are not final):
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Birthing Pod
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Recurring Nightmare
4 Baleful Strix
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Grave Titan
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Minister of Pain
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Shriekmaw
1 Thragtusk
1 Trinket Mage
3 Veteran Explorer
1 Walking Ballista
Sideboard:
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Darkblast
4 Force of Will
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Invasive Surgery
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
2 Riptide Pilferer
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Vendilion Clique
I couldn't find room for a Liliana, Heretical Healer, a second Thragtusk, a Yasova Dragonclaw, or any copies of Fatal Push. Leovold looked better than any of the remaining 3-drop options.
So... What's your rationale for "Pod lists are good vs. the current DtB section"? Or rather, "BUG Pod lists are better vs. the current DtB section than regular BUG Fit".
Please, do explain.
The chain of thought wasQuote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
- a -1/-1 effect would be huge (Minister of Pain/Orzhov Pontiff) against the myriad of Baleful Strixes, True-Names, Noble Hierarchs, and monk tokens in existence these days.
- repeatable small creature removal is good (Trinket Mage -> Walking Ballista; Murderous Redcap; Stoneforge Mystic -> Jitte)
- Uncounterable creatures are great (birthing pod)
- Grave Titan looks great right now, going over top of True-Name, Shardless, and Eldrazi lists, with none of those decks having a way of dealing with him
- The metagame has seemingly become very, very, very fair.
Given this, slower, fairer decks like NicFit, Birthing Pod, and MUD appear to be good metagame choices by just going over the top of the other decks in the metagame. I chose BUG Pod because it seems like the least likely deck to just lose to itself relative to the others listed, but Junk seems like a perfectly serviceable color combo, too.
Alrighty. So that's the Team America/Shardless portion of the DtB section. But those are MUs we're already happy to see with pretty much any Nic Fit build.
This leaves Sneak & Show unanswered. A T2 Emrakul doesn't really have to care about Strix, now does she? And Podding to Shriekmaw isn't going to cut it. Furthermore, G1 you don't have access to FoW (which regular BUG Fit does) so you've lost some ground there compared to regular BUG Fit.
As for Miracles - you still need to win through creature combat, and still have no way to interact with Jace. So here you're on equal footing, at best.
Looking at your SB, you seem to focus on spotremoval and stack interaction. Regular BUG Fit runs these both in the MD, leaving room in the SB for stuff like Lost Legacy, which can actually deal with Jace and strike pretty big blows to Sneak & Show.
I'm not sure if you'll be able to achieve what you're aiming for, to be honest.
The thing is, Pod lists tend to border on being The Danger Of Cool Things. You can do a lot of cool stuff with it, but it takes forever to get there. Unfortunately a lot of the more straightforward lists do a similar or even better job several turns faster.
What is junk doing that's better than BUG?
Deal with opposing creatures. Path to Exile is the shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitefaces
Also, Siege Rhino and Sigarda. And white SB cards.
And it's fun.
It's been a while since I've seen a BUG Fit list at all, and even longer since I've seen one that runs a playset of forces in the main. There's an equally unpolished list on page 5 of the thread that has 2 in the maindeck which, let's be honest here, probably isn't going to cut it against S&S either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
I mean, if this is your biggest concern, it seems eminently solvable. Three to four cards can be cut from the maindeck to make room for FoW, making room for Lost Legacy, Brain Maggot, etc in the sideboard. Okay, no biggie. Not sure what those cards are yet, but I'll take some ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
For Junk Pod, the cards thrown out were Gaddock Teeg, Thalia(s), Stoneforge Mystic, Orzhov Pontiff, and Tidehollow Sculler, though I think that Maverick/Deadguy/Aggro Loam might leverage all of those cards much better than a Junk Pod list ever could.Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitefaces
If you want to kill small creatures, Sneak Fit does a pretty great job of reliably landing Inferno Titan (and Massacre Wurm if you really want to wipe your opponent's board). You can opt to include the Punishing Fire package if you are even more inclined to kill off small dudes over and over. A further advantage of Sneak is that sometimes you are both faster than your opponent's fair deck, and also able to play the longer game better. Win-win.
Not really understanding the hype on Force of Will. It's really only good for us if 1) you have a high density of blue cards (and no, 12 blue cards + 4 FoW probably isn't cutting it), and 2) you are playing against combo (at which point, why not just Flusterstorm or other counters?). We have precious few cantrips and drawing effects, and we typically want to cast the goodstuff we have in hand. The card disadvantage of FoW shouldn't be taken lightly.
Punishing Fire also helps against Jace. It is, however, absolute garbage against Leovold. Pick your poison.Quote:
Originally Posted by square_two
Sneak also gets to play REB which is pretty nice against Jace and Leovold.
Doomwake Giant is pretty deadly against all the dumb X/1s, too, and Monastery Mentor is pretty unhappy to see Curse of Death's Hold. BUG has difficulty answering a Chromanticore, incidentally. Just saying.
You know, I've been contemplating lately if it wouldn't be better to just put Lost Legacy in the MB. Maybe this is an over reaction to just how degenerate my local meta has gotten but the idea seems to hold merit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
In fact, I just signed up for another 12 round paper league (though this time it won't take 12 weeks). I need to finalize my decklist soon and I'm leaning towards 2 copies of LL MB at the expense of some of the slower CA like Courser.
Try out my Junk SE list. It actually just got another big boost now that Ranger of Eos can get Walking Ballista. Ranger can now fetch big things, protection, GY hate, and removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
You're about 3 lands and 8 removal spells short of having a consistent deck that can interact with the opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrinshpon
That's the problem with Pod, and BUG Pod specifically. The advantage blue has is FoW but that forces you to run more Blue than Green, so you also lose GSZ which kills your mana consistency. In the end BUG Pod just does a bunch of things poorly, and it's a bit too durdly.
I think Junk Pod is much stronger.
I'd rather run Thoughtseize. It's not quite as good as LL against combo (though it comes down earlier) but it's at least still useful against fair decks even if it isn't perfectly optimal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
I started playing Nic Fit because birthing pod is an awesome card, but I do think I need to agree with the rest of the above in the assessment that Junk/Bug pod does not provide the same consistency as other lists.
At which point I've been moving into Vet. Walkers.
Same cool factor imo with better match ups against any non-fast combo (Reanimator and SnS) where pod has been struggling (with me as the pilot) in even fair match ups like D&T, Bug, Eldrazi....
I've been playing nic fit pod for the last two years, all the versions and many options: no, i don't think that Junk Pod is stronger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
The basic point: Brainstorm.
Now, Nic Fit has a weird history with the n° of Brainstorms, i know well. But, for me, there is absolutaly no reason to play less than 5 (one in the sleeve).
Not only the 4x is necessary, i've found that it's one of the major points about the blue in pod, even if Zimmerman has reached the biggest results of a nic fit deck (i think) with a Brug list without Brainstorms but with a 4x of gsz. An isolated case, though.
Other points: i strongly believe that Pod Nic Fit is, if not the strongest, one of the best versions. It has problems that raise the difficulty level (for example finishing the game...), but i'm looking at other versions just to try new and cool stuff.
Edit: Obviously, you lose consistency. But you gain a flexibility and an engine that no other version could reach.
I know there was talk of non-punishing fire SneakyFit at some point in the discussion. I can't seem to locate it so I would appreciate if someone could post their list if they are still on this plan. Thanks!