Yeah I have 2 soul scar, 2 serpent and 2 stormchaser. Seems decent so far.
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Yeah I have 2 soul scar, 2 serpent and 2 stormchaser. Seems decent so far.
Hey that's a super cool tech.
Seal of Removal hits Emrakul, gives you prowess trigger and you don't need to keep mana open all the game to be able cast a bounce spell.
It does not flip Delver though. But I think it's worth of that.
I saw it here
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...ted-appearance
Any other people testing out Cryptic Serpent?
I've been having problems in MU where they side in tons of removal. it feels like they keep up with each creature I put out and things get worse as the game progresses. This is why Serpent has now caught my eye, as a creature that dodges pretty much everything but edict effects and STP. In my little testing it does seem clunky but has promise and can be quite good if it lands.
Any other words of advice for the MU where they SB in a lot of removal? For now I've just been trying to overload them with threats, counter their removal if possible. That said it hasn't been working out too great most decks have been able to keep up.
It's also possible that i just need to get more games in and I was facing some variance and that's why it felt like they had a removal spell for every creature.
For reference my creature suite has been a combinaton of:
4x Delver
4x Swiftspear
2-4x Stormchaser Mage
0-2x Soul Scarmage
0-1x Grim Lacamancer
0-2x Cryptic Serpent
I always have at least 12 creatures as well
As a UR Delver/Control/Landstill player i hope everyone switches their Revelers into Serpents, as I just love being able to kill more creatures with REBs and Pyroblasts. ;)
I think you hit on one of the real weaknesses of the deck. Decks that can keep up in tempo with our early creatures, especially when they're on the play, are very tough matchups. This has gotten worse since the printing of Fatal Push, too, since previously BUG decks had no good 1-mana removal against us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luthiereisfun
I recommend running 14 creatures to help up the threat density, but I don't think you can really go higher than that without pulling apart the synergy of the deck. You need a critical mass of instants and sorceries in order for it to function. We also don't want usually to be holding up mana for things like Spell Pierce/Flusterstorm/Divert to protect our creatures, because then we lose value on Prowess triggers. I'm not sure there is really a good solution here other than just accepting that we can't win all of those games.
My current creature count to get to 14 is:
4x Delver
4x Swiftspear
4x Stormchaser
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x True-Name Nemesis
Soul-Scar Mage and Cryptic Serpent both seem playable and really close to good enough to me, but I can't find a single cut in the the current creature list. I still want the 4th Stormchaser for its ability to fly over a jammed board and provide additional 'reach'.
UR prowess list got 5th at a legacy challenge. Fairly stock list. Most notable is the. 3 Soul-scar mage http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...nge-2017-06-05
The UR list that Top'd 8 this event is also very interesting http://www.hareruyamtg.com/article/s...esmartphone=on
Creature suite is 4x Delver 4x Young Pyro 3x Grim lavamancer and 2x TNN
It swaps price to the board for MD stifle/wasteland and passes up burn for counterspells like 3x spell Pierce and 1x spell snare. Also interesting is a 1x of set adrift.
Anybody else playing UR Delver at GP Vegas in a couple days? I'm pretty excited to be trying this out after months of practice. Here's my current list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/672526#online
Open to any and all feedback on it. I'm thinking about cutting Vapor Snag and/or one of the Grafdigger's Cages, looking at potentially a 2nd Flusterstorm, an Invasive Surgery, and/or a Dismember to replace them.
Unfortunately not going to Vegas, however I have been playing a lot of UR Delver lately because of it being well positioned in the metagame. I firmly believe that UR Delver is a favourite against Grixis Delver and can get off to fast enough starts to get under grindy midrange decks that would otherwise destroy you. I feel like a sideboard tailored a little towards beating combo is a very important asset. As a recommendation from experience, I think that a Bedlam Reveler in the sideboard is actually quite good, it being able to pull you back from a bad spot in grindy matchups.Quote:
Originally Posted by paradigm72
@paradigm72, I would feel pretty good bringing your list to GP Vegas. I think you might want to add a second Pyroblast to your sideboard and if you have the time try Eidolon of the Great Revel in the sideboard against combo. A note on Eidolon; I wouldn't bring it in against Grixis Delver because of the huge liability it can be if your opponent has an advantage while you have it on the board or clogging up your hand. Personally I am not a fan of the third Smash to Smithereens due to sideboard space.
Good luck in Vegas!
I agree the third Smash can go - I like a Null Rod here to still deal with equipment, but also add game vs Storm. I think you really want another Rough//Tumble for the Elves matchup - I expect a lot of Elves at the top tables.
Well, I finished with a pretty mediocre 4-5 result, got eliminated for day two in round 8 after being 4-2 earlier. I did end up cutting the Vapor Snag and it cost me against Lands.
Deck felt alright still and had some unbeatable draws and some clunkers. I did play Elves once and couldn't find the Rough // Tumble fast enough, so that was advice I maybe should have taken. I did get matched up against two Chalice decks where the Smashes were incredible, though, so I still like three there. I would have liked to play more decks vulnerable to Price, only got one resolution of it all day and I guess that was the difference. Played zero BGx decks.
I need to improve in the mirror quite a bit as I lost to it twice. First time was to Reveler and second time to Soul-Scar Mages which neturalized my Stormchaser advantage. I had previously never lost this mirror before yesterday, so I need to do some analysis on how to fix it. Maybe more Pyroblasts or Lavamancers.
Psyched to see this deck in DTB; such an underrated and ignored deck for awhile now.
I've put some playtime into this deck and got a 5-0 today with this list:
4 Delver
4 Swiftspear
3 Reveler
1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Young Pyromancer
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Force of Will
2 Price of Progress
4 Volc
4 Tarn
1 Island
1 Mountain
4 Delta
2 Mire
SB:
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Submerge
2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Price of Progress
3 Smash to Smithereens
A good experience to play. Thought Scour I was skeptical of, but I like that it enables Reveler really well. I reconfigured my typical Delver deck to the Thought Scour version following this list mostly:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetyp...br-39063#paper
I didn't like the idea of splashing black in this deck, so I made the deck straight UR.
With the DTB update happening I will be updating the primer as soon as I can. I am currently quite busy and will be for the next couple weeks. I will add Soul Scar Mage to the primer, and talk about our matchups against the various decks that were added to the DTB forum. As well, since UR Delver is a DTB I will also include a matchup analysis on the mirror as well.
@DNSolver, I have played Thought Scour in other builds of Delver before with more Gurmag Anglers and it was still terrible. I am not sure if you want 4 but your list is quite far from what is traditional. Also it helps to aid your nonbo of Grim Lavamancer and Bedlam Reveler.
Again, not my list or idea. My maindeck is copied directly from the list I linked.
Any more thoughts about Thought Scour? Did you play it after cantrips for instance, or just jammed the card as fast as possible?Quote:
Originally Posted by DNSolver
Thought Scour was definitely at its worst in the combo matchups, where I would rather have another cantrip to find a Force of Will. Cutting Daze means that G1 you are in significantly more trouble unless you can get a really fast clock or find multiple Forces to go with a threat. However, I have played out Delver with the intent of using the trigger as a Scry with Scour (Delver hasn't lived until turn 2 yet because of no Daze). I have enjoyed that Scour helps Grim Lavamancer have plenty of food that doesn't hurt Bedlam Reveler. And finally, I have VERY MUCH enjoyed Reveler. It's a threat that gets big enough to rumble with everything else after 1-2 spells, and the land count is low enough (and the spell count high enough) that you are definitely getting there from the draw 3. I think this might be the way to go against Gurmag Angler, which is otherwise very annoying. However, I haven't played against TNN with this version yet, so I don't know if it's more of a stonewall to this deck with only Delver as a flier.
In other deckbuilding news, going up to 4 Price of Progress after board turns you into a very efficient burn deck with card selection and Force of Will against 4-color Loam. Fun fact.
I feel like dropping Daze for thought scour is a big mistake. This deck really needs to put pressure on the opponent immediately and daze helps us get there by countering a bolt/swords/push on our T1 threat. The deck has got to get aggressive straight out the gate to be able to win IMO.
I am back to having a single bedlam reveler in my mainboard now as coming up against a lot of matches that can just about get themselves out of reach enough to stop the deck and reveler seems the best option to get us some card advantage for those longer games.
Has anyone had great results with soul scar mage? I have not tried him out yet wondering if he is worth the investment. IV tested serpent lot and I Dont hate it but its just vanilla to me maybe I wrong its worse than gurmag cause it cost 2 at best case while gurmag cost 1... Yes it itches to force but still feels medium as hell... Now mage looks real strong. Allowing trades with goyf and gurmag shrinking guys like grislebrand and things equipped to batterskull swell as other prowess creatures. It looks strong enough for comp play just Dont know where he fits.. My creature base now is...
4 delver
4 swiftspear
4 stormchaser
1 lavamancer
1 TNN
... I chose to out my reveler in the board for the time being... So anyway if I were to add mage Id be inclined to cut either 2 stormchaser, 1 stormchaser and a lavamancer, or stormchaser and TNN (which sounds wrong)
I've been playing with 4 Delver, 4 Swiftspear, 3 Stormchaser, 2 Soul Scar and 1 Reveler for the last couple of weeks and i really like it. Having 10 one drop creatures makes the deck feel more explosive and Soul Scar's ability has been nice against those Anglers/Tombstalkers that are running around everywhere.
While I like it in theory it's pretty rare I've actually been able to do much with soul scar. Either I just don't draw him when needed or I get him and they never play a Gurmag Angler/Goyf etc... so undecided on whether to stick with him or to revert back to goblin guides.
Honestly, Soul Scar Mage is good, but I am still unsure if it deserves a slot. Soul Scar Mage, being 1 mana as opposed to Stormchaser at 2 mana can speed the deck up in terms of its explosive turns. I view Soul Scar Mage's ability to be a little fringe but when it comes up it becomes very relevant.I haven't been able to test it yet, however I do think it is worth testing quite thoroughly. I am probably going to test it in the near future, will update.
I think it wants to slot somewhere in a one-sided Rough/Tumble running deck. Whether that means it's good or not I can't say, but I think the potential for a deck maining some form of one-sided Pyroclasm effect with Swift/Scar exists now.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheManWithaPlan
I tried soul scar a bit and I'm unsure if it deserve a slot maindeck. The only thing I'm sure is that if I want another 1 drop in the deck is not goblin guide. On a 5 match sample the mage has provided more damage on the long run than a goblin guide 4 times out of 5 (turn 1 mage/guide) while providing an upside (Wither) instead of the downside of drawing my opp a card.
I'm always pretty impressed by the reveler as a pseudo cruise immune to push and that provide a great body; but the inclusion of scour is meh at best as milling the few lands we play is terrible. I wouldn't cut dazes as the combo matchup is bad and it's the only way to stop a chalice on the play.
What's your thoughts on vapor snag guys? With all those marit lages around it seems that even 2 copies are a possibile inclusion, but I'm worried that in the combo matchup it's too bad.
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Took UR Delver to my first day 2 at GP Vegas. Had no byes but limped in at 6-3. Will have a writeup on Hipsters of the Coast if people are interested.
Deck was great, I lost some games due to bad sideboarding on my part.
Congrats on day 2! I know I would be interested in a write up!Quote:
Originally Posted by pateuglow
So, been kicking tires with this deck. Meta has been SUUUUPER full of Grixis and Czech Pile. So I've definetly been thinking of running 1-3 Stifle 1-3 Wasteland, just to punish these ridiculous manabases. The Issue I'm having with this is what else to run. The first cuts would be Chain Lightning and Stormchaser Mage, as if I'm running 1-3 wastelands. I Don't think a multicolored creature is going to fit in. Chain lightning because I'm reducing threats, I probably don't want to get my lightnings to be redirected.
Am i wrong for thinking this?
OR should I just net deck the shit out of this?
If you want to play UR delver with stifle and wasteland I recommend starting with this list http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15848&d=297314&f=LEQuote:
Originally Posted by potatodavid
I have been playing something very close to it and much prefer it to the prowess versions. Is it better? Depends on meta and even then I can't say one is strictly better. Prowess versions are definitely more popular.
I would try out both and see what you like. The Takuma list feels like it has a better combo MU and I play 2x bloodmoon in the sb which has cheesed a bunch of wins for me. It's also more reactive which I like.
Congrats, looking forward to your write-up!Quote:
Originally Posted by pateuglow
Hey guys, Ill start off by saing amazing work Chatto! This thread is going to be really good! I recently moved from playing Depths for several years, to CounterBurn (UR Delver), and im lovin it. The reason being is that the rise of highspeed-combodecks in my local meta, witch has made Detphts struggling a bit. But with CounterBurn I can smash a Fow in their face saying: don't play such cheezy decks you dic* head! :laugh: No, but back to being serious. This deck has a stable mana base (only 2 colors and basics), this combined with burn and counter is a huuuge advantage. Good synergy with Delver and Prowess, both needing non-creature spells. Seriously, just lovi'n this deck-concept!
Anyway, here are my recent to cents on this deck:
1. Sulfuric Vortex have been really good to me, triggers Prowess and sets of a clock. A fast clock! Those 2 extra damages each turn is just amazing! Before I started using Vortex, I some times lost with opponents at only 3-4 life left when I died, but now: oh yes baby! So they Abrupt Decay our Vortex? Perfect, they used 2 mana + 1 card and my Delver of Secrets/Monastery Swiftspear will survive another round. I just wish it was a 2cc card, the 3cc mana cost is pain!
2. Played several games against a Chalice of the Void@1 on turn 1-2. I sideboarded in 2x Smash to Smithereens but couldn't find it either of them :frown: But then I realized: Prowess triggers anyway! The spells just get countered. This is a very important effect of the Prowess, you pro-UR players probably know this. But I just wanted to enlighten other novice UR-players out there. The same goes if the spell gets countered normally, by FoW or a Daze of course. If I had realized this earlier, I could have won several of the games against chalice@1.
I will be following this thread, looking forward to see it evolve, as we still have 6-8 flex slots MB.
Since we are pumping out spells to combo with the Prowess trigger, we should maby be looking for a card that takes that advantage? Treasure Cruise was the perfect answer, but due to combodecks also noticing this card it got banned right away.
'Threshold', 'Delve', 'Deliriu' and 'Spell mastery' are some of the abilites that works with the graveyard. We have some contenders, but i dont think they are up for the challenge:
- Grim Lavamancer, to slow?
- Snapcaster Mage, to mana heavy?
- Bedlam Reveler, almost right, but just a bit to mana heavy.
- Cryptic Serpent, naaa...
- Set Adrift, slow sorcery speed.
- Rite of Undoing, instant ''Boomerang'' for U-cc, but do we need it? Maby SB?
- Deathrite, Nimble, Goyf, Angler all are the wrong color.
So, draw cards and take advantage of a big graveyard might be what we should be on the look out for? Lets start searching....
I think that when you try to put payoffs in this deck, the payoffs just become clunky. The fact is the strategy of playing out your threats and ending the game quickly is already effective enough. You don't need clunky payoff cards. A while back, I went through this same thought process and eventually came to the realization that you probably just want to focus on your primary game plan in playing prowess creatures, Delver and a bunch of spells to close out the game quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by t000
To comment on Grim Lavamancer, I have been playing it in this deck forever, and it is insane. Especially right now, when Elves and Grixis Delver are popular, Lavamancer is very good. Yes, Lavamancer takes a turn to get going but if it is left unanswered it just takes over the game.
Hi TMWP.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheManWithaPlan
Thanks for your reply, I will let Mr. Grim a second go. Im a bit afraid that to many 1cc is a bust (Chalice/Prelate..) that we need the 2cc on Stormchaser.
Another though, Grim/Delver/Mage/Swift, they are all Humans.
Cheers.
Prelate says non-creature.
Grim Lavamancer is good in the delver mirror, elves, good against DnT until they Revoker it, but then you just bolt Revoker and things are back on. It's also good to shrink goyfs sometimes.
Anyone like bloodwater Entity that was spoiled yesterday? 3cmc is high, dies to stuff, but may be worth a look.
I had a couple Cryptics casted against me the other day. They don't seem half bad. It's nice that their mana cost is weird and most spells miss them. They also aren't delve so UAbsent isn't a big deal. Swap them out against decks that want to RiP you maybe. If you run them, I'd also run G-Probe.
I think Vortex is a must, but could be off base. The ability to have an evasive dude with "haste" that almost never gets killed and prevents all HP gain; it's an out BSK/Jitte, DRS, EBridge, etc.
So I don't hate him... Flyer that has prowess like storm chaser.. And for 1 mana more is a archaomancer seems really good... Now the negative is that its just a simple 2/2... Now I know what you are thinking "it has prowess so you gust cast a spell and he is fine" that's not necessarily true... I think bolts popularity is going up some so to save this guy you will need 2 spells when you cast him... Next lack of haste... The way the prowess version looks you have 2 really good prowess guys... The common factor is that they both have haste. So pretty much ask yourself would stromchaser and swiftspear be good if they did not have haste? I think no personally but soul scar Madge is starting to get big so Im not entirely sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
My.opinion on the card is that it is good... But i don't know if its better that the stock list of guys... Might be a Lil better that reveler but I think thats a wrong assessment
I do happen to agree, I just wanted to hear someone else say it. For that cost, I'm pretty sure I'd rather play some number of Snapcaster Mage before it, if only because I do have stormchaser mage and also bolt snap bolt.
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Bloodwater Entity seems worth trying. Even just his etb is quite nice if you just need one more bolt or Pop to finish them off. Might try it as a one of.
Hi again.
Just a though: If we run 3x sets of 1cc creatures (4 Delver/4 Grim/4 Swift), what about including a set of Aether Vial main deck?
:smile:Pros:
Since we only play 1cc creatures, we only need to ramp up to 1 counter.
We can use our mana on spells instead of creatures.
Works with Prowess.
´Flash´ creatures into play.
Creatures become counter-proof.
Could count as a ´mana-source´, at least a card (land) advantage.
Play creatures through early permission (Chalice etc.).
:cry:Cons:
Dont flip Delver.
1 Vial in play and 1 in hand = 1 dead card in hand. But this senario is most likely to mid/late game, and we dont want to be there anyway?
Can not be pithed to FoW
I play against a lot of Maverick/Goblin decks, and they realy endorse and take advantage of Vial. The card advantage and surprice factor is amazing!
You need to have at least 20 creatures if you want to play Vial and get value out of it. This deck only plays 13-14 most of the time so it is not a good card here.
Vial is just not complimentary to our strategy at all. We never really have mana issue, the whole deck can easily run and win with 2 lands. So what benefit are you getting from vial? If you cast it T1 then you waste a turn doing nothing, then turn 2 maybe you get a delver down with it, but you could have just cast that delver on T1 anyway and it would by now potentially be flipped and swinging for 3. You don't even start to benefit in terms of gaining a mana advantage until T3 and by then you probably won't have creatures left in your hand.
Vial works in stuff like Goblins and D&T because they have a number of crucial 2-drop and 3-drop creatures and Vial helps those decks to keep pace with faster decks like Delver and get around counter magic, but for us it is far too slow and cumbersome, doesn't complement the rest of our strategy and is absolutely terrible in multiples.
Hello, all! So glad this primer has become invigorated lately. I am quite new to the deck, and it has been very helpful to read experiences and tips from more experienced players.
I run a list with 4 delver, 4 swiftspear, and 3 soul-scar mage (as well as two stormchaser and one true name) because I really like the high density of one drop creatures. Often, I will have opening hands that contain more than one, and I struggle to know which one drop threat to lead with. I generally always lead with Delver in the dark. If I have swiftspear and soul-scar but no delver, I almost always lead with soul-scar. I am misplaying here? Under what circumstances might it be better to lead with a specific one drop threat?
Thanks for the advice!