[DTB] UWx Miracle Control

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyuuri117

Also going to be adding a second ceremonious rejection to the board. Feel like it's needed in my meta. The eldrazi player is a constant and the pox player is 90% of the time on MUD. I should probably be playing a third one tbh...

---

The main problem with ceremonious rejection is that it doesn't work very well against Chalice, which is the main way eldrazi & mud beats us. You rarely die with a disenchant in hand to a attacking creature in my experience, and if so they likely had a cavern of souls anyways. There is also the problem of Rejection not being a card you can board in against literally anything else. While cards like CJ or Disenchant you can board in against all kinds of decks, like any Stoneforge Mystic deck for example. If you are really afraid of eldrazi or mud and don't want to just play more than 4-5 disenchant effects (really diminishing returns) you have two options I think, you can either play cards like null rod against mud, or needle/spyglass against eldrazi (name eye of ugin) or mud (name all kinds of stuff), or you can play land hate, Back to Basics, Blood Moon, From the Ashes, etc are all fairly common options others play. I like both of these options more than rejection, they are simply way higher power level, and the only downside is that they cost slightly more mana.

Other than that I also don't like only 8 cantrips 20 lands. Either play more cantrips (like everyone else is doing right now), or play more lands (Like Joe or Reid or a few others did pre ban).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by It Is Unfair

The main problem with ceremonious rejection is that it doesn't work very well against Chalice, which is the main way eldrazi & mud beats us. You rarely die with a disenchant in hand to a attacking creature in my experience, and if so they likely had a cavern of souls anyways. There is also the problem of Rejection not being a card you can board in against literally anything else. While cards like CJ or Disenchant you can board in against all kinds of decks, like any Stoneforge Mystic deck for example. If you are really afraid of eldrazi or mud and don't want to just play more than 4-5 disenchant effects (really diminishing returns) you have two options I think, you can either play cards like null rod against mud, or needle/spyglass against eldrazi (name eye of ugin) or mud (name all kinds of stuff), or you can play land hate, Back to Basics, Blood Moon, From the Ashes, etc are all fairly common options others play. I like both of these options more than rejection, they are simply way higher power level, and the only downside is that they cost slightly more mana.

Other than that I also don't like only 8 cantrips 20 lands. Either play more cantrips (like everyone else is doing right now), or play more lands (Like Joe or Reid or a few others did pre ban).

---

Yeah cerimonious should be a zero off in the SB, it's way too narrow. Not to me mention the most common targets are either played turn 1 (vial, chalice), is cheated in (equipment) or is played with cavern (eldrazi). If it were a colorless blast then sure but you should rather play answers (CJ, disenchant) and actual counterspell. Spell Pierce is a good card versus staxlike decks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whitefaces

:eyebrow: Everyone calls it Elves...

Jaces pulls you ahead, you need to do that at some point.

---

I noticed Whitefaces in Legacy challenge is now running
3 Flusterstorm
3 Pyroblast
1 REB

Since he's not the only one (Das actually went for the full 4-4), I am now wondering is this a MTGO inbreed meta thing, or is this applicable to the paper Legacy events?

One card I feel the community has overlooked is Spell Snare. In this meta, this card is useful pretty much all the time. Often a player gains edges with Snapcaster, in which SS can cut off. Other Notable targets are Hymn/Chalice on 1/YP/Infernal Tutor/Sylvan Library/Collective Brutality/Dark Confidant. Yes, I'm aware that the power of SS is drastically reduced if your opponent Probes you first, and it can still be blasted on stack; however, I'm now experimenting with
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
3 Spell Snare

Don't have conclusive results yet, feel free to give it a try.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by twndomn

I noticed Whitefaces in Legacy challenge is now running
3 Flusterstorm
3 Pyroblast
1 REB

Since he's not the only one (Das actually went for the full 4-4), I am now wondering is this a MTGO inbreed meta thing, or is this applicable to the paper Legacy events?

One card I feel the community has overlooked is Spell Snare. In this meta, this card is useful pretty much all the time. Often a player gains edges with Snapcaster, in which SS can cut off. Other Notable targets are Hymn/Chalice on 1/YP/Infernal Tutor/Sylvan Library/Collective Brutality/Dark Confidant. Yes, I'm aware that the power of SS is drastically reduced if your opponent Probes you first, and it can still be blasted on stack; however, I'm now experimenting with
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pyroblast
3 Spell Snare

Don't have conclusive results yet, feel free to give it a try.

---

Yeah, it's a bit of an mtgo thing, there's loads of mirrors at the moment especially. Online I am playing 3 CB maindeck and 4 Blasts sb usually, but I'm playing a bigger event this weekend where I'm going to 2 CB for a 3rd Predict in the main and 3 blasts in the side as I expect a bit less blue, bit more unknown. Though the numbers either way are solid I think, it depends if you know the meta you're playing in. I know that here in the UK there's a lot of DnT at least, and other random non-blue decks. I've been on 3 Flusters for quite a while though, I'd play that online and irl.

Spell Snare is quite high variance imo, when it's good its insane, and there's a lot of good targets in the format atm that we care about, the mirror especially and it's great vs pile. It's pretty poor vs Grixis Delver, though, which is rough. It also has diminishing returns, so I'd play two at the very max personally.

Hello, I' m a new miracle player. I play 2 volcanic island and 3 pyroblast in side; versus the new 4C leovold with 2-3 wasteland is safe to play with only two volcanic or I have to increase the number of red sources? Thx

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eldrazi Grandfather

Hello, I' m a new miracle player. I play 2 volcanic island and 3 pyroblast in side; versus the new 4C leovold with 2-3 wasteland is safe to play with only two volcanic or I have to increase the number of red sources? Thx

---

If your only red cards are 3 blasts I think 2 volcanic is enough and preferred. You might run into a game where you get wasted of red but still have 1 blast left in the deck and lose because of it, but it will probably less often than the other alternative (losing game 1 against a wasteland deck because you drew multiple volcanics). If you play any more red spells that you want to board in against wasteland decks (pyroclasm for example, or a 4th blast) then I would would play the 3rd volcanic (or a sideboard basic mountain).

I see that many list don't run containment priest in sodeboard; is the game vs show n tell winnable without her?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JackaBo

Yeah cerimonious should be a zero off in the SB, it's way too narrow. Not to me mention the most common targets are either played turn 1 (vial, chalice), is cheated in (equipment) or is played with cavern (eldrazi). If it were a colorless blast then sure but you should rather play answers (CJ, disenchant) and actual counterspell. Spell Pierce is a good card versus staxlike decks.

---

If I were bringing the deck to a large event I would swap up my sideboard a bit, but as I know for a fact that two of the 8-12 decks in my local tournament are going to be Eldrazi and MUD on a consistent basis, I don't see why it's bad. Sure, if they get an early chalice on one down it's an issue... but ceremonious rejection or not, that's going to be an issue. I do have the two disenchants in the board already and bring those in. Are you suggesting I bump that up to three or four instead? I understand that ceremonious rejection isn't useful against other decks and that cavern of souls exists, but getting turn 2-3 TKS'd, or thorns into trinisphere'd, just puts you so far behind that I feel like they're worth the slot.

About running more cantrips, I probably should. I have found that the additional three drops have been very useful with counterbalance in the list though, and abrupt decay is at an all time low these days so not too worried about it hitting search for azcanta.

On another note, is it just universally agreed upon that mentor is the best finisher right now? Is Entreat the Angels generally outclassed at this point? Was interested in messing around with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyuuri117

If I were bringing the deck to a large event I would swap up my sideboard a bit, but as I know for a fact that two of the 8-12 decks in my local tournament are going to be Eldrazi and MUD on a consistent basis, I don't see why it's bad. Sure, if they get an early chalice on one down it's an issue... but ceremonious rejection or not, that's going to be an issue. I do have the two disenchants in the board already and bring those in. Are you suggesting I bump that up to three or four instead? I understand that ceremonious rejection isn't useful against other decks and that cavern of souls exists, but getting turn 2-3 TKS'd, or thorns into trinisphere'd, just puts you so far behind that I feel like they're worth the slot.

About running more cantrips, I probably should. I have found that the additional three drops have been very useful with counterbalance in the list though, and abrupt decay is at an all time low these days so not too worried about it hitting search for azcanta.

On another note, is it just universally agreed upon that mentor is the best finisher right now? Is Entreat the Angels generally outclassed at this point? Was interested in messing around with it.

---

If your meta is heavily skewed with colourless decks then by all means run Rejections, just understand that's it's not a good choice for the deck for anyone else so that's the angle they're coming from when condemning it.

I wrote up something small recently on win cons - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...8TsiySJOQ/edit

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyuuri117

About running more cantrips, I probably should. I have found that the additional three drops have been very useful with counterbalance in the list though, and abrupt decay is at an all time low these days so not too worried about it hitting search for azcanta.

On another note, is it just universally agreed upon that mentor is the best finisher right now? Is Entreat the Angels generally outclassed at this point? Was interested in messing around with it.

---

Decay is definitely lower, but there's no quantifying data to support all-time low. It's not just Decay destroying Search, many Grixis decks have multiple Red Blast effects in the SB and that's fine. I rather them hitting Search using their Blast than hitting Jace.

The Entreat vs. Mentor topic has been discussed in the primers above already. It's still very common for your opponents to SB-out creature removals like Push when they face Miracles, they often Brainstorm away their Push/Edict game one because they don't even care about the 2/1 Snapcaster body. That's why our side-boarding tech of SB-in Mentor is rather punishing.

Played in a 160 odd player event yesterday, made t4 which we split. A friend also made t4 on a list 2 cards different to this (+1 cs, -1 cb md, +1 clique, -1 fluster sb), and another friend, WhiteFaces, came 9th on the same list (+/- 1 card or so) :(.

Thought it'd be good to share the list, though I have limited recollection of how the games all went so I can't really do a write up but am happy to answer any questions if there are any.

Ant 2-0
Pile 2-1
Pile 2-0
Dnt 2-0
Miracles 2-0
Grixis delver 2-0
Sneak and show 2-0
Id
Pile 2-0
Split t4

4 brainstorm
4 ponder
3 portent
2 search for azcanta
3 counterbalance
1 counterspell
4 swords to plowshares
4 terminus
3 jace, the mind sculptor
1 entreat the angels
4 force of will
3 predict
3 snapcaster mage
1 council's judgement

4 flooded strand
4 scalding tarn
1 arid Mesa
3 tundra
2 volcanic island
4 island
2 plains

SB
3 flusterstorm
3 pyroblast
3 surgical extraction
2 monastery mentor
1 snapcaster mage
1 council's judgement
2 disenchant

Yup, 9th place was a bit frustrating, would have been so nice to have us three together. Played the same list as above but +1 Counterspell -1 Counterbalance.

My matchups were

2-1 Grixis Delver
1-1 Pile
2-1 Grixis Delver
2-1 Grixis Delver
2-1 Grixis Delver
0-2 Sneak and Show
2-0 Lands
1-0 DnT, then the guy got a game loss for deck reg error.

They then had a T8 for 9th - 16th place.

2-0 Grixis Delver
0-2 Eldrazi

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Whitefaces

Yup, 9th place was a bit frustrating, would have been so nice to have us three together. Played the same list as above but +1 Counterspell -1 Counterbalance.

My matchups were

2-1 Grixis Delver
1-1 Pile
2-1 Grixis Delver
2-1 Grixis Delver
2-1 Grixis Delver
0-2 Sneak and Show
2-0 Lands
1-0 DnT, then the guy got a game loss for deck reg error.

They then had a T8 for 9th - 16th place.

2-0 Grixis Delver
0-2 Eldrazi

---

It seems that Grixis Delver is definitely a good matchup. xD

Can you go into detail about the games against Sneak and Show and Eldrazi? Why you lost, plays you would have done differently...

Thanks!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by losada

It seems that Grixis Delver is definitely a good matchup. xD

Can you go into detail about the games against Sneak and Show and Eldrazi? Why you lost, plays you would have done differently...

Thanks!!!

---

Yeah, Delver is a good matchup for us generally.

There's not a lot to say about the SnS and Eldrazi matches I'm afraid as there wasn't much decisions to be made.

SnS - G1 he had turn two Show and Tell putting in Griselbrand with Force of Will. Game two maybe I made some mistakes, I need to go over it again, but he had a lot of redundant pieces. I countered two Show and Tells and a Sneak Attack, but after trying to Surgical Sneak Attacks (it got Forced) he then played another and Emrakuled me.

Eldrazi - G1 he had the old T1 Chalice, T2 TKS, T3 Smasher hand and I didn't cast any spells. G2 he had T1 Chalice, T2 Chalice for 2, TKS, Smasher, Smasher. The only thing I guess I could have done differently is mulligan to Force of Will, but the hands were generally OK. G2 I had Swords and Disenchants, but they were turned off by the Chalices.

Both decks have a very high ceiling, like in these matches, and there's not a whole lot you can do. Ancient Tomb is good vs Miracles.

Hi Guys! Last sunday i was able to top8 my LGS Legacy Championship (36 players this time)

R1 Burn w 2-1
R2 Turbo dephts w 2-0
R3 Big Eldrazi w 2-1
R4 Dragon Stompy L 2-1
R5 Grixis Delver w 2-0
R6 Jund ID

Top8 Jund L 2-1

The list i was playing is the same u can find some posts ago

Here's sort of a neat opportunity: ItisUnfair and I got paired last night while we both were streaming. If you're interested to hear the breakdown of a match from both sides from high level players, it's available. My side (D&T) is the first match in my stream here. His side (Miracles) is at about the 4 hour and 34 minutes mark of his video here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Medea_

Here's sort of a neat opportunity: ItisUnfair and I got paired last night while we both were streaming. If you're interested to hear the breakdown of a match from both sides from high level players, it's available. My side (D&T) is the first match in my stream here. His side (Miracles) is at about the 4 hour and 34 minutes mark of his video here.

---

While I appreciate the heads up sadly that particular match was not as instructive as I had hoped. I mostly learned three things:
- As the Miracles player, be careful what you click when Search for Azcanta and a Terminus Miracle trigger are involved.
- DnT is far less troublesome if it has no early Aether Vial.
- As the Miracles player, draw more than three lands over the course of the match.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kobal

While I appreciate the heads up sadly that particular match was not as instructive as I had hoped. I mostly learned three things:
- As the miracles player, be careful what you click when Search for Azcanta and a Terminus Miracle trigger are involved.
- DnT is far less troublesome if it has no early Aether Vial.
- As the Miracles player, draw more than three lands over the course of the match.

---

The clip itself might be trivial and non-informative, but the match-up itself is highly interactive and rather intricate. If we read the 2 primers provided by WhiteFace and Itsunfair again, most of the analysis regarding the MU is about sideboarding, and warning on fetching for Volcanic Island, needing the Red Mana for Wear//Tear.

The intricacy, imho, comes down to Vial activation. There's literally Nothing Ever Good, when Vial was activated at 2 counters. Even if it's a fake activation, you have to respect it. Remember, you cannot respond once you've passed priority: it could be a Thalia, Revoker, SFM (which might be under Mom's protection at eot), think about the worst possible outcome before you pass.

Another common mistake is Vial into Karakas. When they Vial Thalia into play at Miracles player's EOT, just STP it with 2 Mana assuming there is no active Mom please. Many times I have seen Miracles players waiting until it's DnT player's turn, and then they just slam down Karakas, now you're in this nightmare scenario of hide-and-seek. Also, by waiting, you're going into DnT player's turn in which he could tick Vial to 3 on upkeep, that would enable the Flickering of Thalia if you then try to STP it, well before the timing of Karakas.

I would rank as the following:
1. Vial Activations, especially 2: 3 is a lot more predictable: Recruiter, Flickerwisp, Crusader, Prelate. On 2, you have to take board state into account, give it more thoughts before you say pass.
2. SoFI: Have a plan for it, and that plan better take Mom and Port into account, CJ requires WW and Port might get in the way.
3. Never-ending Recruiter chain: This is DnT's attempt to marginalize Terminus.
4. Port/Waste Denial: Everyone is probably trained to mitigate these at this point.

Reference: the old miracles, that infamous clip https://youtu.be/1OdHE4MWxaA

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the deck seeking some advice from more practiced players of the deck. My questions are 1 MD Unexpectedly Absent vs 1 MD Council's Judgment both have 1 Council's Judgment in the side as well. And then replacing the 4th Swords to Plowshares with a Supreme Verdict.

The list I started to learn the deck with had these differences from the decks that just did well in the 160-ish man tournament and I'd like to know what was some reasoning behind these small adjustments. I appreciate the perspective so I may look at the deck in a more holistic fashion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quackers

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the deck seeking some advice from more practiced players of the deck. My questions are 1 MD Unexpectedly Absent vs 1 MD Council's Judgment both have 1 Council's Judgment in the side as well. And then replacing the 4th Swords to Plowshares with a Supreme Verdict.

The list I started to learn the deck with had these differences from the decks that just did well in the 160-ish man tournament and I'd like to know what was some reasoning behind these small adjustments. I appreciate the perspective so I may look at the deck in a more holistic fashion.

---

Hi - so UA vs CJ is a question largely of playstyle - CJ is a more permanent answer to things like Jace, and it can answer True-Name and Leovold, whereas UA is more flexible in terms of play pattern (allows you to hold up countermagic, deals with things like Marit Lage end of turn).

The CJ sideboard (or in some cases, UA) serves as a fourth answer to Chalice of the Void, whilst still being useful vs Czech Pile/DnT.

Replacing the fourth swords with a verdict is a statement that sweepers are better than spot removal when playing against Delver. I'm not sure this has been proven to be true - but there are a few benefits to having verdict in your deck (Surprise factor vs daze/fluster/force, you can find it with Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin and cast it efficiently the next turn).

Generally I find Swords to be excellent against Delver and try and play a more Swords/Snapcaster into Mentor/Counterbalance/Flusterstorm game rather than relying on wraths. I suspect this also to be more of a playstyle consideration.

Hi everybody! I'm new here, but I follow this forum from months. I'm testing for a straight UW Mentor Miracle list, and i also cut CB for 3 Spell Pierce, with no Azcanta, because I haven't tried it for now. I see with some testing with some pretty bad matchups like Dragon Stompy, Mono B Pox, BUG Control, that CB is so unstable here, so i preferred pushing for Pierces, due to more response against turn 2 CoTV, some Seize, and why not some Rituals for combos. I know that Flusterstorm is more efficient in a Mentor list, but it can't afford CoTV, or other things( Blood Moon on turn 1, i can't fetch, i'm nearly dead). I also play the 4th Snapcaster in main for having more tempo action for Pierces eventually, we have to reach late game. I'll post you my list, that I', gonna try to an event here in Italy. Suggests are very welcome ^^

Mentor Miracles by Stonerwolf

4x Snapcaster Mage
3x Monastery Mentor

4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
3x Portent
3x Predict
4x FoW
3x Spell Pierce
2x Counterspell
4x StP
3x Terminus
2x Unexpectedly Absent
2x JTMS

4x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
1x Windswept Heath
3x Tundra
1x Karakas
6x Island
2x Plains

Side:
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Flusterstorm
2x Back to Basics
2x Disenchant
2x Entreat The Angels
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Containment Priest
1x Council's Judgment
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Supreme Verdict

Ps.: Yeah, I play 61 main deck cards ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stonerwolf

Ps.: Yeah, I play 61 main deck cards ;)

---

Have you tried going down to 19 land? With just two Jaces and that amount of cantrips you should be able to get away with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by klaus

Have you tried going down to 19 land? With just two Jaces and that amount of cantrips you should be able to get away with it.

---

I should try it, but a land cut in a deck who nearly needs a land drop for turn, could it be a good idea?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stonerwolf

I should try it, but a land cut in a deck who nearly needs a land drop for turn, could it be a good idea?

---

The discussion of how many lands originally went from 21 to 20. During the DTT era, Miracles lists with really few lands (even Wasteland) were popular because card advantage was so easy. However, 20 became the standard once Mentor became a staple of the deck in/out of the sideboard. Test it out to see if 19 works; I'd guess that 19 might be okay with enough fetches and the basics.

Your list reminds me of the Mentor Miracle list that Claudio Bonanni has had developing: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-Miracle/page3

The key inclusion that Bonanni makes is Daze: the Daze build has the ability to pivot very quickly at the expense of some power level and some consistency because of the ability to tap out for Mentor with some counter protection/added value.

~~~

I play a version that's not as strongly tempo drive and has 3 Mentor/3 Snap, but my catchall removal is Engineered Explosives. It was based on the original CounterTop version that ran the same with Predict as the post-ban draw engine: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post956685 & the link Minniehajj refers to about GP Columbus: http://www.thebrainstormshow.com/pod...raculous-lens/

Using EE in the current metagame can be a little more fragile. I use a basic Mountain, though others run 2x or 3x Volcanic Island. The added value is getting multiple cards with an EE, and avoiding any double color requirements that aren't Blue. (I also don't run Entreat) That being said, needing :w: :u: :r: sometimes to eliminate a Leovold or TNN is almost as challenging.

The card I've used in my flex slots has been a 2x Disrupt. It's not free like Daze, but has some upside in early interaction--specifically countering hand disruption on T1/2--and is another outlet for instant speed draw. In general though, it's still relatively weak. It's one of the first cards to side out for a blast effect or Flusterstorm. I think that's generally something that keeps the Tempo Mentor builds is that there isn't a really strong free spell to marry with the Mentor. Cabal Therapy is almost there in an Esper shell, but its problem is that it's slower than Pyromancer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by t3hmyth

The key inclusion that Bonanni makes is Daze: the Daze build has the ability to pivot very quickly at the expense of some power level and some consistency because of the ability to tap out for Mentor with some counter protection/added value.

---

I've also tested Daze too but this card is better for tempo shells decks, i haven't feel it good here. How much is good investing a bounced land for a free countered spell?

Spell Pierce did not pass my testing, too unstable, and i forget a big trouble: Cavern Of Souls.
So Pierce, is useless for now. I'm going back to swap with 2 CB again and 1 EtA.

I feel UWr should be the default miracles build now. blasts and reb are too good in legacy.

I'll be streaming the Legacy Challenge today! Playing UWr Miracles and will be joined by the legendary Angelo Cadei after he finishes an IRL event :) Would love if you all joined me!

https://www.twitch.tv/minnifer/

I’ve dug through the primer but couldn’t find a match up analysis for burn. I find I can’t close out games quick enough and they just win. Anyone have strategies for this match up?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NimbleJosh

I’ve dug through the primer but couldn’t find a match up analysis for burn. I find I can’t close out games quick enough and they just win. Anyone have strategies for this match up?

---

As we know, mono-red Burn loses to itself due to variance, so you get that going for you. Not to discriminate, but a lot of Burn players miss the Eidolon triggers and Vortex triggers. Hence, be aware of the miss-trigger rule, like really understand it. Ultimately, you want the game state to be Jace + CB and you use Jace to setup what you're floating every turn. Sometimes it's a good idea to just damage race using Mentor. In short, this MU is very difficult without CB. Hence, my first priority would be to find it.

You can of course SB-in some Burn hate, and that's actually more common in paper event than one would presume. The important issue of side-boarding is to consider what's Burn player's SB: Pillar, Vortex, Firecraft, Vexing Shusher. If you know for sure Firecraft is coming in, RiP is a good way to prevent that eventual inevitability. Disenchant effect are must as it would hit both Eidolon and any other damage dealing enchantments.

Overall, I would stress that using your StP and Blue cantrips wisely. Always consider the possibility of StP your own creature to stay out of Bolt range. When you cast each Brainstorm/Ponder, anticipate what your Burn opponent's next Burn spell would be. Yes, you're supposed to do that for all MU when you have CB in play, but every spell in this MU matters.

I'm a U/W stone-blade player here looking to play some miracles. I have just about everything for this deck, with the exception of volcanic islands for the red splash. From what I've seen the only red cards appear in the sideboard. This seems like it would make the volcs nothing but a liability in game 1 by increasing our vulnerability to wasteland. With the inbred, blue infested meta I clearly see the value of having red blasts in the SB, but it seems the deck would still be playable as strictly U/W.

Could any of the veterans of this deck share their ideas for what a straight U/W version of this deck should look like? I'm really not sure where to start and I'm sure there would be many little things that I just don't know about to consider when dropping red from the deck. Thanks in advance for your time!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wolffman

I'm a U/W stone-blade player here looking to play some miracles. I have just about everything for this deck, with the exception of volcanic islands for the red splash. From what I've seen the only red cards appear in the sideboard. This seems like it would make the volcs nothing but a liability in game 1 by increasing our vulnerability to wasteland. With the inbred, blue infested meta I clearly see the value of having red blasts in the SB, but it seems the deck would still be playable as strictly U/W.

Could any of the veterans of this deck share their ideas for what a straight U/W version of this deck should look like? I'm really not sure where to start and I'm sure there would be many little things that I just don't know about to consider when dropping red from the deck. Thanks in advance for your time!

---

I would say that the deck considerably weaker without the red splash. The cases where you’re punished for the volcanics occur far less than the cases where blasts put in serious work. You would have a very hard time winning the mirror, too. I’d avoid the detour and practice with the red from the beginning..

Why is no one playing Gideon, Ally of zendikar? For me it such a powerhouse in so many fair match-ups
Playing one in the sideboard and one in the mainboard

Gesendet von meinem Aquaris X5 mit Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deckerator

Why is no one playing Gideon, Ally of zendikar? For me it such a powerhouse in so many fair match-ups
Playing one in the sideboard and one in the mainboard

Gesendet von meinem Aquaris X5 mit Tapatalk

---

I run it as a one of in the sideboard since my meta always has 1-2 czech pile decks floating around. Having a game ending threat that doesn't die to abrupt decay/fatal push or a pyro/reb is outstanding.

My problem with Gideon is it's only good when you're at parity or already ahead, not things I like to count on for this deck.

Do the miracle decks already have a core deck?
I am still not sure what is the right configuration after the top ban.

The addition of 2x Search for Azcanta is an improvement for this deck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deckerator

Do the miracle decks already have a core deck?
I am still not sure what is the right configuration after the top ban.

The addition of 2x Search for Azcanta is an improvement for this deck.

---

1 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Plains
4 Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
1 Counterspell
3 Predict
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Council's Judgment
3 Portent
4 Ponder
4 Terminus
2 Search for Azcanta
3 Counterbalance
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Snapcaster Mage

Sideboard
2 Monastery Mentor
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flusterstorm
2 Disenchant
3 Pyroblast
1 Council's Judgment
1 Snapcaster Mage

Something like this is pretty much stock at the moment, you can cut a predict for a counterspell main, or a snap for a mentor sb and other minor tweaks, but yeah, I'd say this is ~73/75 stock ish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FGCmtg

1 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
2 Plains
4 Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
1 Counterspell
3 Predict
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Council's Judgment
3 Portent
4 Ponder
4 Terminus
2 Search for Azcanta
3 Counterbalance
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Snapcaster Mage

Sideboard
2 Monastery Mentor
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Flusterstorm
2 Disenchant
3 Pyroblast
1 Council's Judgment
1 Snapcaster Mage

Something like this is pretty much stock at the moment, you can cut a predict for a counterspell main, or a snap for a mentor sb and other minor tweaks, but yeah, I'd say this is ~73/75 stock ish.

---

Thanks FGC for providing the stock list! i have been thinking of going back to miracles at my LGS this week as well but that place is flooded with chalices. From big eldrazi, white palace jailer chalice concoction to merfolk. Do you think playing 1 EE in the main is good to combat chalice heavy decks? or should I just play 2 council's judgement in the main.

With only 3 jaces and 1 entreat, do you guys have a problem with ending the game on time? I have always been trying to speed up my play without compromising for errors.

Two Miracle decks made Top 8 of SCG Philly (team constructed open, though), with others in 11th and 23rd. Also an interesting deck labeled "Jeskai Helm" in 25th. List here http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...y=Philadelphia.

Joe Brennan's list is particularly interesting, featuring 9 basic lands, 3 terminus without access to Verdict or another sweeper in the 75, and some other interesting choices. Man seems determined not to lose to chalice with 2 Unexpectedly Absent, 1 CJ, and 2 Wear / Tear in the board. Relic is an interesting choice as well. Also Ruination over From the Ashes is honestly very confusing.

Notably 2 Mentors is a four sideboards. I know a lot of people had been getting away from that card entirely.

I took 3rd at a 115ish person 4k at Channel Fireball today!


I have played like 3 paper events in the last 6 months so I have not been too active on this thread lately, but I thought I would share my list since it is a bit different:

1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island

3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Monastery Mentor

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Portent
2 Predict

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Counterbalance
2 Search for Azcanta

2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

1 Engineered Explosives
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus

Sideboard:

1 Council's Judgment
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Flusterstorm
1 From the Ashes
1 Pithing Needle
3 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
1 Rest in Peace (this should be a 3rd surgical)
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Wear // Tear

Matchups:
2-0 ANT, but with some fun/suboptimal card choices
2-0 D&T
2-1 Miracles mirror
1-2 BG depths
2-0 D&T
2-1 UR Delver
2-0 ANT

I was the 3rd seed, but we just split.



I am really happy with 4 mentors. They were the MVP all day. In literally every matchup but depths, I got to cast early mentors and win games where I was behind. Against both ANT opponents, I was losing the attrition war, but stole the game with relatively early mentors. Against the 2nd D&T opponent our round was over in 10 minutes! In the miracles mirror, he resolved CB and search, and I got to resolve mentor after and win with little fight back.

Rest in peace should be a 3rd surgical, I just couldn't find one.

From the ashes is not a card I feel strongly about and could be something else. I would like something that helps the Depths/lands matchup though.

If anyone has questions or feedback I would be happy to hear it.

^can you go over the turbo depths matchup? how did you lose to it?

why the single mountain?

I know there is a guy on here who plays bg depths and is a cfb local. i think his name is solnox. did you play him?