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You usually either play Cradle or the DD combo so that you don't screw up your manabase too much. Right now I think DD is stronger because Grixis and non-white decks are in full swing and they have no way to deal with lage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yutao
So to answer your question, it's not essential right now but there might come a meta in which it is. Or such meta might never come at all, who knows. All I know is I have mine and it was very good at times.
Hy guys, new Maverick Player here.
I've started playtesting the 4c Leovold Build three weeks ago but would like to move to a more traditional GWb list. The Primer has been a very good read so far but i've still got a question:
I want to play as few colours as possible, because i'm a fan of simple Manabases with basic lands, so how viable is a build with only 1 Bayou for 4 DRS and 1-2 Decays in the board?
Are the Discard spells necessary against dedicated Combo decks like S&S or is the combo of Wasteland + Hatebears enough?
Is anyone running a straight GW build atm and has some kind of experience to share with me?
Greetings
Playing 1 Bayou and 1 Scrubland has been fine for me and I think that's a pretty normal configuration. Edit: I thought your question was 1 vs 2 Bayous, but if you are asking if you can exclude Scrubland that will be a problem for you at times, starting with a forest, fetch and decay for example. But you can, of course, exclude it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Tempel
Discard is very good vs combo decks since you otherwise can't interact with them on t1, being on the draw t2 interaction is quite slow.
Edit: very welcome btw! :)
i like the idea of another "best creature" but i dont think Tireless Tracker is a replacement for Knight.
Tracker is as fragile as Knight is.
knight can maybe survive a bolt with 2 lands in GY where Tracker will die to P.Fire as well, etc. etc.
also does tracker not solve our problem with Nemesis, Strix, etc.
we would need a 3 drop creature kinda like Thrun, the Last Troll / Mirran Crusader with other spicy effects....*christmasland*:really:
The T1 interaction might be replaced by Orims Chant, but the Discard is definitely more versatile and proactive, the only upside of the Chant is the Blowout potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonny Tempel
I'm also experimenting with Maverick, using a 4C list with Leovold but I'm thinking about just going to 3 colour or GWB.
what's everyone running instead of Leovold in that color combo?
I'm not on the Leovold train and will run any of the following in GWb:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwathnar
- Courser of Kruphix;
- Tireless Tracker;
- Renegade Rallier; or,
- Ramunap Excavator
Which of these I choose depends on other deck building choices and influences other inclusions down the line. For instance, I like Courser when I'm running Sylvan Library in the main. I like Tireless Tracker when running Gaea's Cradle instead of my usual DD+Stage. If I'm running Cradle, I'm more inclined to lean on the mana-intensive plan B of SFM+equipment. Etc.
I run Garruk in the main for that extra sass too, but my local meta is small, grindy, and mostly fair. Others have discussed bad Larrys like Thrun and Sigarda.
Big Thalia has been a great 3 drop for me. She's very aggressive and very hard to play around (though obviously has the downsides of being legendary and not GSZ-able).Quote:
Originally Posted by menloe
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by menloe
I've got everything but Courser of Kruphix in there already.
I might try Garruk or Thrun - Thrun could be good since there's a lot of blue in my meta.
Tireless Tacker does not help with Nemesis, but does help against the decks that Nemesis is played in as he can help combat 1 for 1 removal and get us to the cards that can combat the stupid fish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skizz
The comparisons of Tracker vs Knight are valid, but the advantage tracker shares is the access to the Crop Rotation toolbox much sooner than Knight. Earlier, instant speed access to the land toolbox is nothing to scoff at...(including the combo in certain matchups) especially when crop rotation allows you to draw 2 with a tracker out.
Tracker might not be the 1 to 1 replacement to knight that people are looking for, but a version might exist.
For whatever reason I focused on green critters. I also love THC and have included her since she was released. I split 3/1 OG Thalia/THC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
I also run Mindcensor in the main, but that is, again, knowing what I will expect week to week at the local.
Can play actual Troll Ascetic I suppose? Also Still Moon Cavalier cant die to STP, Push, can infinitely block marit lage or griselbrand, and jumps over TNN.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skizz
Sorry for double post, but Tracker does open up a possiblity of a "Maverick Stompy" type deck. Nedleeds used to play a pretty sweet list with chalice, sol lands, stoneforge stuff like that. Tracker is easier to cast in that shell and turn 1 Chrome Mox Sol land is T1 Tracker or Thalia HTC which is a fisting. Also fast mana turns on the equipment package much quicker. You can still run some number of KOTR and such as well. That's what the odyssey egg lands or whatever do for you with a Tomb out.
awwwwwww yissss :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Hello everyone! New user here but played Maverick for a year or so!
What I like with Maverick you can always tune it, iterate and see what works, plus nice to not play blue, feeling like the underdog, hehe
Really like the DD combo despite in the beginning it could screw me over. The ability to win the game in a stall is too good too pass upon
New additions - cradle, gq, loam, cobra and voice
Removed - TT, maze, 3rd mom and batterskull
TT seldom did enough, never zenith for it either. and a user posted about voice which could be interesting to try out. My biggest problem is 4cc with k-command being backbreaking. Therefore I also removed batterskull
I think it's correct to remove the 3rd mom, as they tend to be removed as they etb while Sylvan can protect directly, thoughts about adding a 2nd Sylvan?
Ever since ramunap got printed I've played with it, and one copy is the best imo. Recently added gq to be able to remove basics when some ppl play around waste.
Have people played with loam recently to give some more insight? Not sure about it.
Also what are people's opinions playing with teeg in sb only?
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Welcome bruv. Playing blue is for dorks who identify with Jace and think they're smarter than you. Fuck Jace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zasse
I prefer Teeg in the main because it gives us an out to traditionally bad match ups (Storm, Elves, etc). Stealing game one against those decks is helpful to say the least.
He ticks a number of boxes for me: tutorable, impacts important match ups, has reasonable enough stats that he can get his kithkin shillelagh dirty if need be (bonus points if you're beating down with exalted triggers), and the downside of running him in match ups where he doesn't matter is mitigated by the fact that you're only running one copy. Having one copy you are unlikely to draw in matches that don't care about Teeg, but five copies (six after sideboard) in the matches that do, is a reasonable hedge to me.
Loam is cool. I gave some sideboard slots to it in the past before Ramunap Excavator, which is a card I think it competes with. I think both are cards that are best when you are significantly far ahead of your opponent so I'm not too hot on either currently.
Is there like a token generator that's GSZithable? My meta's been a ton of grindy stoneblade and piles recently and I'm starting to consider sword of body and mind.
Imperious Perfect was always my jam when I wanted to go wide; does great with Scryb Ranger, and lets your DRS attack for 2, still dies to spot removal before untap which sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yutao
Also technically Titania Protector of Argoth, Huntmaster of the Fells and voice of resurgence, although I doubt this is what you're looking for.
There's also Pride Sovereign which works well with Scryb Ranger. I didn't try it yet, I have usually been playing Titania which is great for pushing through in such grindy matchups, and I've sometimes played Bitterblossom but not too much results with it, maybe because it's not GSZ-able..
Do not underestimate Tendershoot Dryad, it served me quite well in Limited. It should be possible to support Ascend if your goal is to grind with it in the longer games.
Thanks for the feedback!Quote:
Originally Posted by pettdan
I've adjusted my list to "only" 3 colours. What are your thoughts?
Lands: 23
1x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
2x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Plains
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
3x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
Creatures: 25
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Knight of the Reliquary
2x Mother of Runes
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Ramunap Excavator
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Tireless Tracker
1x Voice of Resurgence
Spells: 12
4x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Sylvan Library
1x Abrupt Decay
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Batterskull
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard:
1x Abrupt Decay
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Choke
2x Containment Priest
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Surgical Extraction
3x Thoughtseize
2x Zealous Persecution
Ant QueenQuote:
Originally Posted by Yutao
Jade Mage, Ant Queen, Deranged Hermit, imperious perfect, Rhys The Redeemed
I like Ant Queen way more than Tendershoot Dryad as at least it's a 5/5. If I'm going to run a 5-drop against decks like Pile I want something that's going to provide some value if it immediately eats a Bolt or K-Command or gets tagged by an edict effect. I'd prefer something like Titania, Protector of Argoth or even Thragtusk even if they're not traditional token-makers as they're almost guaranteed to provide some value.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
Another consideration could be Garruk, Primal Hunter. His main downside is costing GGG, but he spits out 3/3 tokens and gets himself out of Bolt range right away. Alternatively, he can be cashed in right away to draw cards if you've already got a board presence.
I think he was specifically asking for GSZ targets that produce tokens.Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyod17
If we are talking planeswalker I believe the best one for this deck is Garruk Relentless since he produces 2/2s and can act as removal, albeit a costly one, if necessary. His flip side abilities are also very relevant (great blockers, more tutoring, trample for kotr? yes please!).
4-5 cmc seems like a bit of a stretch. I guess I'm just looking for a huntmaster of the fells type card. ETB value, and can cause some serious value if left unchecked. Planeswalkers are great against 4c, just not Zenithable. Voice of Resurgence does a pretty alright job against them, since I don't think they have any form of exile. Ophiomancer can technically make value, only that it dies to everything and can't be zenithable. Caller of the Claw doesn't work well with zenith but can be pretty devastating against a deluge.
Sigarda not good enough? Can't die to basically anything from Pile plus it carries weapons so fucking well
Almost agreed it can only be Deluged for 5 life. Don't use idiotic Ant Queen or etc when you have Flying edict proof 5/5 hexproof killer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I used to love Sidarga but just feels bad right now with so many Baleful Strix running around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
^^ This.
Unless you plan on using all your removal on strix, I'd stay away from the lady. You can always give it pro black with mom, but doing it for only 5 damage seems greedy. Now for a 10/10 knight or a 20/20 lage that would be a different thing...
Aren't you answering your own question? Huntmaster should be fine then. Master of the Wild Hunt is another 4 drop that creates a token a turn, but falls into the range of dying to Lightning Bolt. That's why I suggested Ant Queen, as it is a 5/5 that avoids Bolt. I can see having 8 mana available realistically as well, meaning you can Zenith for it and then make a token to avoid Edict. Most of the other token producers require a tap effect, so I think Ant Queen and Jade Mage are likely better (they can also both be activated several times a turn.) Jade Mage is cheaper to Zenith + activate (7 mana) but still doesn't avoid Bolt/KCommand as removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yutao
EDIT: If it's value you want, and not just more bodies, Eternal Witness seems very strong (if you haven't already included 1 in your 75.)
Any tips on the Turbo Depths matchup?
My win and in for the top 8 is with a really good Turbo Depths player.
Lands/Turbo Depths and TNN are the main reason I play 2 Blessed Alliance in the board. It's also a bonus that it helps with burn, reanimator, show and tell and sometimes even decks with infinite blockers like grixis delver.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
As mention blessed alliance, KotR, obviously wasteland and ghost quarter, side in artifact removal against needles. Discard is also good in early turn. If you running mom use it and has for bop to block token. Turn 2, KotR is also good. Timing is the most important don't try to waste vs open green mana, Tax him play and fetch at his eot. Don't forgot about Sylvan Safekeeper. You have two options attack him early on Mana when he is tapped or side in special cards like Zealous Persecution. Very nice is also gsz for Granger to ping him constantly. To use combo he needs additional 2 Mana along with DD/TS. Keep in STP to gain time against fast token.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
Would you bring in Decays and ZP? Seems like I could overboard pretty easily.
I知 running straight GW main with Cradle and Maze, side board is QC痴.
All depends what you seen G1 and what is your opponent game plan on G2.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
If you running GW with maze which isn't bad here
, you probably run 2 Qasali and any kind of additional removal like path to exile except swords to Plowshares. Maverick is favorable here since you have so many routes to interact like:
-stop combo by wasteland
-stop combo by ghost quarter
-block token with flyer and mom backup
-block token with maze
-kill token with STP
-kill token with path/blessed alliance
-bounce token with Karakas
-assemble own token if you run DD/TS(use their DD)
-kill their Mana base so they don't have Mana
Each other card which doesn't lead to those routes should be sided out, except Jitte.
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatal
I play all of this except GQ and Path. We play tonight.... I値l let you know how It Goes!
Edit: lost 2-0.... game 1 he had turn 1 forest Safekeeper, turn 2 urborg, Crop Rotation, Dark Depths, hexmage.... game 2 he drew exactly what he needed while hellbent 3-4 turns in a row... including double map, Thoughtseize and Crop Rotation for the steppe. I drew zero wastelands bob games and still feel like it is a good matchup for us.
sometimes they just have it all...Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
did you play your knight-less list with 3 Tracker,1 Crop Rotation Main?
i think ill give it a try!
Scenario from game 1 is interesting:Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
Turn 1:
Forest -> Safekeeper
Turn 2:
Urborg, -> Crop Rotation (from Forest) - so urborg stays inplay. - in this moment (while Crop is on stack) you have window to cast removal and opponent have to choose - losing Safekeeper or slowing down his combo by turn. Poper line is to cast that removal since on longer game you won't resolve any removal with safekeeper in play in row (mostly no mana, and first is blocked by Safekeeper).
Alternative good line is to cast removal on safekeeper right away in turn 1. It's depends on two factors - first factor does you have mana dork (if not you should cast removal turn 1, even if it only mean 'stone rain') second factor is draw/play situation - on draw this line is much more risky since you don't develop your board.
As Skizz said - it's Magic sometimes combo decks have everything and you can't stop them - like turn 1 AdN on draw, Belcher canon or Dark ritual thoughtsize, entomb, reanimate... BUT it is narrow best way to deal with those combo decks is to practice a lot, sometimes we just didn't saw window in time to break sequence of their plan.