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Good points about Tower, seems like I've missed out on some nice tech for some time^^ Gonna try a singleton in one of the flex-landslots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
Currently I'm toying with a blue-splashed version; Academy Ruins, Engineered Explosives and Master of Etherium with SB Padeem and maybe Antiquities War. Don't know if it's better positioned metawise than pure generic or green with SB Choke, but it feels fun/fresh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucane
splashing blue Always feels out of place in the deck. If you want to Play something blue, Play the following list:
//Lands:
4 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
2 Island
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Underground Sea
4 Vault of Whispers
//Creatures:
4 Master of Etherium
3 Trinket Mage
4 Walking Ballista
//Spells:
4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtcast
//Other Permanents:
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
4 the Antiquities war
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mox Opal
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Zuran Orb
//Sideboard:
2 Battle at the Bridge
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Flusterstorm
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Toxic Deluge
How are folks finding the traditional stompy build performing lately?
I picked it up on a whim and have been having a pretty ridiculous hot streak; not sure if I'm on a fluke heater or if it's good in the meta right now - curious how others have fared lately..
I've thought about that route aswell, tempting being a Tezz player previously... but I think losing most of the low CC beats hurts in too many matchups to be worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
My idea actually, was going somewhere in this direction, potentially tweaking in a couple of basic lands):
Creatures:18
3 Hangarback Walker
4 Walking Ballista
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Steel Overseer
3 Master of Etherium
Spells:19
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
4 Mox Opal
3 Smuggler's Copter
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
Lands:24
1 Academy Ruins
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Karakas
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Wasteland
This gives 12 blue sources and 10 white ones, which should be enough to utilize a few SB-slots in those colors, oneoffs Crucible and Winter Orb SB among other stuff. White opens up for Canonist/C.Priest, blue has bounce-spells.
Just tinkering with it, so no IRL data yet. More manlands might be better for obvious reasons, as I've only had success with straight colorless and light green splash so far.
I should've had a clean sweep if it weren't for me punting completely on Ravager math last weekend. Deck felt incredibly powerful.Quote:
Originally Posted by walked
I am not an expert of the deck but when reading that list the first thing that comes to mind is : basically you switch etched champion with master of etherium. master of etherium is a great card but is it really worth the blue splash ? Unless you have other blue cards that could fit in well, i am not really convinced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucane
By the way, Esperzoa is an underrated blue card IMHO, maybe it could fit in.
Mind sharing your list? I've been toying with builds and curious what's been working for others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Curious about:
- Lodestone count?
- Jitte, SoFaI, or both?
- Hangarback or no?
Etc
My experience with Etched Champion has been that it does too little on its own, with equipment it was great though... so I've been on 4x Hangarback for a long time, as it's good vs non-white removal as in Grixis, which has a bigger metapresence than Miracles in my area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Albarkhane
Not sure myself if blue is the way to go, but I want to try each splash-color in a tournament setting before dismissing it.
I really like Academy Ruins and EE though, deck needs some removal:-)
Esperzoa seems fun and has some utility with Bridge and resetting Ballistae/Walkers/Chalices... so it's worth considering.
This is the list I've got on Topdecked so I think it's the exact list I played.Quote:
Originally Posted by walked
Steel Stompy:
Maindeck (60)
3 Hangarback Walker
4 Walking Ballista
4 Arcbound Ravager
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Vault Skirge
3 Etched Champion
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Inventors' Fair
1 Karakas
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
Sideboard (15)
2 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ratchet Bomb
3 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB is pretty tossed together. Probably could use another ratchet bomb. I played against cloud posts a couple times so Spyglasses were great for me. I think I want a couple Karns though I'm not sure what for. I'll be playing next Sunday at our monthly probably with this deck. I expect a number of burn decks and miracles which is why I'm interested in hearing others thoughts on that matchup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucane
Well, i am just saying that any splash weaken the mana base so must be really worth it. I think too that blue has some potential here but i am not sure what should be added there, something that could help the bad matchup i presume.
I remembered also etherium sculptor, it has the good mana cost and its effect is nice. Maybe it is overkill and i was more looking at CA cards but its effect is quite neat for tempo.
11 person legacy event at LGS last night
I ran this list:
26]
2 Etched Champion
2 Lodestone Golem
3 Hangarback Walker
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Master of Etherium
4 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
Artifacts [13]
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Opal
4 Thorn of Amethyst
Lands [21]
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Inventors' Fair
2 Island
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Wasteland
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Spellskite
3 Faerie Macabre
1 The Antiquities War
2 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
Rd 1: Bye... just stood around and talked to my buddies all round
Rd 2: Eldrazi Stompy Game 1 was prettt back and forth but after a while an unchecked Overseer and Master of Etherium just overwhelmed her. Game 2 chalice on 0 on the play followed but 3 sol lands and a waste for my tomb just wrecked me. Game 3 I had a fast start and Padeem did some work drawing gas.
Rd 3: 8 post Game 1 Wasted a sol land and my overseer was Warping Wailed. Had a skirge getting in there but double thorn was ignored by a double voltaic key and double grim monolith hand. Game went on for a few turns with them drawing gas into Ulamog and Ugin while I drew lands and modern. Game 2 my turn 2 Padeem was warping wailed and then I just durdled with an overseer and skirge that was rr taken care of by another Ulamog.
Rd 4: DnT - he was only 3-0 so he was paired down. Both games were very similar. Chalice on 1 turn 1 and a slog fest with my just having bigger creatures and able to fly over his grown pounders. Game 2 ended (very luckily for me) when I was facing down a SFM with a SoFI, Batterskull and Jitte equipped to it. Ravager off the top allowed my 3 skirges to get in for final points of damage. Phew.
It was a pretty good night overall. Had a few misplays due to not sleeving a legacy list up for a few weeks. Sometimes it just felt like top deck mode was just praying for playable spells. Against 8 post I drew 4 lands in a row. Not sure if I was winning that game anyways facing down Ugin and Ulamog....
Next week I’ll probably try the white splash for Thalia, Ethersworn Canonist and out of the board Containment Priest, Rest In Peace and Disenchant.
There are quite a few interesting cards available in a blue splash, although whether or not they are good enough is certainly debatable.
Of the options available, these are my favorite:
Etherium Sculptor
Master of Etherium
Faerie Mechanist
Thoughtcast
The Antiquities War
White splash seems to me like the splash to play. Priest and Thalia are probably the main cards I'd want. I could see an argument maybe for some disenchant effect of some sort too. In lists splashing colors, how do you guys find the lack of factories?
I agree with Hinterweltler, lodestone golem for me used to be one of the better cards against miracles. It represents a fast clock while taxing literally everything they play. A friend of mine who is a die-hard miracles player has repeatedly stated that lodestone golem is one of the cards he is most afraid of, especially in the early game. The main reason I stopped playing lodestone is because he is relatively bad against grixis control.Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
I've always loved etched champion, even without equipment. If you get either an equipment under him or put a few +1+1 counters on him he often closes the game out by himself. I've personally never liked the looter scooter much due but I can see why it is good especially with chief of the foundry.
Tower sounds like a nice plan. If I get around to playing the deck again I think I'll give it a spin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
Opposing equipments is one of the reasons I used to play phyrexian metamorph. Copying batterskull is pretty damn good, as is copying TNN, leovold, gurmag angler and marit lage.
I would never take out thorn against grixis control. I even prioritize it over chalice in terms of keeping opening hands. It just slows them down by so much. Against grixis control the best threaths to have against them (apart from the core of the deck) are etched champion, karn and hangarback walker. All of these are very hard to answer and/or negate their cardadvantage strategy. I also take out revokers postboard in favor of spyglass as revoker dies to much more stuff than spyglass and shutting down liliana can be important. My current winrate vs grixis control is around 60-70%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
I've been struggling with Grixis but think I'm on a suboptimal list; mind sharing yours so I can mix it and maybe see a bit more success? I've similarly found Thorn to be much better; but I'd like to see the rest of your outfit!Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanovich
The list I last played with competitively was this one, but bear in mind this was in december. Regardless I think grixis control has not changed much in the meantime.Quote:
Originally Posted by walked
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's factory
4 Wasteland
2 Inventor's Fair
2 Darksteel Citadel
1 Karakas
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
4 Vault Skirge
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Etched Champion
2 Hangarback Walker
1 Chief of the Foundry
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 karn, scion of urza
3 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Umezawa's Jitte
The chief of the foundry maindeck used to be a third champion. If you really have loads of grixis in your meta I'd opt to play a third champion, second karn or third hangarback walker maindeck.
Out of curiosity: anyone going to MKM Ghent in april?
@Johanovich
If I add second Karn instead of Chief, what would you add to the sideboard?
I personally think that playing less than 2 Karn in main is a mistake. =)
Also, what do you think about TKS in Main and Choke in side in this list?
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=21030&d=339608&f=LE
@Johanovich
I tested the deck today against a stoneblade (my 75 are similar to yours but with 3 etched champion and no chief). Each games were quite close and balanced but in the end i loose ... I am quite new to the deck so i most probably played it bad. However i find it difficult to deal at the same time jace, tnn and battleskull/jitte. I tried several side in/out but i am not really sure about them. What would you suggest for boarding and do you have any hint about that matchup ?
@Johanovich
I'm going to MCM series Ghent, probably with steel stompy but I'm not 100% sure yet. Want to do some more testing first. Trying green splash now against blue menaces :tongue:
My list at the moment:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's factory
4 Wasteland
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Tree of Tales
2 Karakas
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Steel Overseer
4 Walking Ballista
4 Vault Skirge
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Etched Champion
2 Hangarback Walker
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Karn, Scion of Urza
3 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Choke
1 Krosan Grip
How is the grixis control matchup normally handled? Ive tried seemingly everything, from winter orb/port to even just splashing thalia, i cant make heads or tails of that matchup. I just get grinded out by snapcasters and kholigans commands.
1-2 today. Lost a close one to deaths shadow. I should've brought in more than 1 bridge. He found a ratchet bomb to kill chalice and I died to angler. Lost to miracles. I drew the right lock pieces, but couldn't follow up with any real pressure. He eventually found lands and judgment to blow past thorns and hit my chalice while I drew basically no creatures. Karn would've been a really nice one to draw. Beat goblins because turn 2 lodestone game 1 against his one Land vial hand, and turn 1 and 2 Etched Champions followed by 2 overseer on turn 3. Deck felt alright just mediocre draws and bad boarding. I can't remember resolving a single Ravager which doesn't bode well
Not a fan of TKS or that list in particular. I do like the idea of choke, but I feel it might be hard to cast it consistently with the limited amount of green sources.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryoclasm
I currently like spellskite a bit more again. Delver decks are on the rise and misdirecting bolts and other removal seems decent to protect your more valuable pieces.
If you're willing to try it I would recommend a singleton metamorph maindeck. If there is one matchup where it truly shines it's against blade decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Albarkhane
My SB-plan against blade looks more or less like this, but might change slightly depending on the configuration of the blade deck:
-2 hangarback
-1 revoker
-4 thorn
+3 karn
+2 ratchet bomb
+2 spyglass
Your main threaths against grixis specifically are thorn, karn, hangarback and etched champion. Offcourse chalice, ravager, steel overseer and ballista are also good cards, but they are more general threats. The aforementioned cards work especially well against grixis because they greatly hamper their game plan of mana efficiency and grinding out with efficient removal and 2-for-1s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wordslinger
Out of all these karn is priority nr 1, if you resolve him early in the game you should nearly always win. Don't bother making constructs early on, the carddraw is most important as it will supply a stream of new threaths and the +1 will keep him safe from bolts and surprise snapcasters. Only make tokens when you want to pressure out a win in the next few turns.
@Johanovich
Thank you, i will try that. I like the metamorth idea.
@all
I was at a 69 people tournament this week-and finished at 4-3 with the deck. Not an amazing result but it was my first tournament with it. I met (in no special order) :
- casual vampire : lots of fly/lifelink/deathtouch creatures but we are solid enough.
- mono B dark depth reanimator : a bit tricky but i never really felt in danger.
- instant reanimator : favorable matchup but we need to have a really strong lock to prevent them to come back for the win.
- burn : chalice shines there.
- antiquities war : i lost 1st game to surprise (i did not know the deck) and mull to 4 the 2nd game, so i can't say much about the matchup, looks a difficult one.
- grixis control : grindy matchup, lost to a timely pithing needle on karn.
- sneak & show : quite favorable matchup.
More generally :
- usually, i am not very fond of city of traitors but in this particular deck it is really good. At the end of the day, i rather have city than ancient tomb. Playing one on turn 1 for chalice or whatever is really not a problem.
- metalcraft can be tricky to get sometimes. In some games there is one moment when we are in a very fragile situation and good players will try to make us loose it then.
- i did mulligan agressively a few times and i was not disapointed. However, i had to mulligan quite a lot for mana. I did not play enough games yet to have statistically relevant results there.
- i have been playing shop in vintage for years so i am quite used to those maths, however sometimes it can get tricky and you better double check the battlefield and all interactions so not to miss the kill.
It is a fun deck to play and i think i will give it more tries. :)
Do you think the new proliferate land could be interesting for this deck?
I Think it is. But for testing, i will change the decklist a bit. I think when the new set becomes legal, grixis control will get better (Liliana`s Triumph and angrath`s rampage) and miracles will decrease in popularity. So my plan is to play hangarback walker once again because it is very good against grixis and has great synergy with Karn`s BastionQuote:
Originally Posted by Airwave
I took the above list to MCM Ghent, ended 4-3 and then dropped. It was nice to play the deck, made some mistakes during my games but so did my opponents. I was surprised many opponents need to read cards like Arcbound Ravager or Karn, Scion of UrzaQuote:
Originally Posted by Airwave
I won against Death & Taxes (2-0), Lands (2-0), Eldrazi aggro (2-0) and Jund (2-0), lost to Eldrazi & Taxes (1-2), Elves (1-2) and Tezzeret (0-2). Tezzeret was really difficult to play against since they play Ensnaring Bridge. The other games were very close, die roll is very important here, especially against Elves.
Glad to see someone took the robots to top 8! :smile:
What's your sideboard plan against Miracles? I'm not sure if it's good to side out Thorn of Amethyst against them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanovich
This is the decklist that made top 8 at MKM Ghent. I want to try a little different one:
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Chalice of the Void
4 City of Traitors
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Karakas
2 Lodestone Golem
4 Lotus Petal
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Mox Opal
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Vault Skirge
4 Walking Ballista
4 Wasteland
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
1 Throne of the High City
2 Forest
2 Etched Champion
Sideboard:
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Spellskite
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Krosan Grip
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Choke
These are the motivations behind my choices:
- I prefer Krosan Grip because it can destroy Counterbalance more easily than Seal of Primordium and you don't fear a counter if you want to get rid of Back to Basics;
- I choose Faerie Macabre over Leyline of the Void because I need space, so I cut the graveyard hate from 4 to 3;
- I want to play 3 Choke because this deck must push the possibilty to play it on turn 1 or 2 and it desperately needs to improve the Miracles match-up.
As for now, I side out Thorn of Amethyst against Miracles, because the cards I have in the sideboard are better, but I'm not sure of this choice. I'm here for your comments too.
Why 2 Forest ? I'd understand the first, because of trophy/ghost quarter, but the second should be Tree of Tales if you'd ask me. The added bonus of an extra artifact is useful so many times if you compare it to the possibility that Back to Basics plays a role in this choice. Anyway just my 2 cents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED
I thought to play two basic lands because I saw the decklist that made top 16 at Grand Prix Shizuoka, that played 2 Wastes. Tree of Tales doesn't help against Null Rod or Back to Basics and suffers Wasteland too. I can play a Ghost Quarter instead of a Forest, like the last MKM decklist, but it's still nonbasic and I must lose another land to get a Forest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airwave
It's quite difficult to compare sideboarding strategies when the lists are so different. Without the splash for green the configuration and choices change a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED
I generally leave thorns in as they really hamper their development, but with choke and grip from the sideboard they become a bigger burden for yourself as well (same goes for lodestone). Judging from your sideboard you're bringing in 6 to 8 cards (depending on whether you bring in spellskite or not). I also really think more karns is a must in this matchup as he is by far the most difficult thing for them to deal with and the pressure and card advantage he provides is key.
Here's the decklist that hit the 9th place at GP Niagara falls.
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Karakas
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Tree of Tales
4 Wasteland
4 Arcbound Ravager
2 Etched Champion
1 Hangarback Walker
2 Lodestone Golem
2 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Steel Overseer
4 Vault Skirge
4 Walking Ballista
1 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
2 Choke
1 Hangarback Walker
1 Karakas
2 Karn, Scion of Urza
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Seal of Primordium
1 Umezawa's Jitte
I want to contact Jamie Archdekin, who made this results, to ask him his sideboarding. I think that Krosan Grip is better that Seal of Primordium, even to fight Counterbalance, but maybe playing an anti-hate card with lesser mana is a choice to not side out Thorn of Amethyst.
Seems sweet. Also you can plop it down against Miracles early and just play your game normally without worrying about holding up Mana for B2B
That's true, but Miracles can destroy it before playing Back to Basics or Counterbalance. I know that's better to keep a Disenchant for Chalice of the Void or Thorn of Amethyst, but Back to Basics is gg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I mean yeah they can disenchant it, but like whatever. I think it's worth getting to just play your game plan. Also it gets to come down before a CB and dare them to play it. And it doesn't cost 4 or 5 with Thorns and such out since you get to play it theoretically before the thorns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_UNLIMITED
Here is my current List (its significantly different from the lists here but here it is):
Legacy Affinity:
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
2 Hope of Giraphar
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Arcbound Ravanger
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Cranial Plating
4 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Mox Opal
4 Seat of Synod
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Blinkmoth Nexus
2 Great Furance
Sideboard
3 Tormad's Crypt
1 Repeal
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Giraphur Aether Grid
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Dismember
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Spell Pierce
2 Flusterstorm
1 WhipFlare
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Pyroblast
Summary:
I'm on a much more aggressive version compared to the lists here. I mostly used the modern affinity list as a template and made tweeks.
- I generally mulligan any hand that doesn't have one of my 12 sources of fast mana. (Some rare hands on the play are keepable if they have a decent curve)
- The deck is designed to kill on turn 3 or put a lock creature in the form of revoker/ Lodestone to buy 1-2 turns for a kill on second turn
- Redundant threat density with revokers/ Lodestone so fair decks are forced to use their removal on non-optimal creatures.
- Sideboard is close to modern affinity template. (Sword of Feast and Famine is for back to basic/ combo decks. Its really not that good but its a card I like)
- Deck has 10 sources of red mana. Its not as reliable. If I'm board in red sideboard cards, its generally when I'm on the draw or if they're really good
- Repeal is for chalice of the void on 0, bounce it, draw a card. Then play 0 mana creatures. If they don't have, point it at your own 0 mana thing to cycle.
I really think I should be playing Etched Champions or Inkmoth nexus but I just haven't made the swap yet and I'm not sure what to cut.
I shyed a bit away from Etched Champion as I would like a reliant threat thats good agains't miracle. I don't know
Interesting note is this list actually has an okay show and tell matchup. Mostly because of all aggressive the deck is and how the creatures can frequently alpha strike past what they show and tell, revoker their sneak attack or lodestone in against omissions.
Suggestions or comments? (i have played this list for a while now so its been tested and its been performing decently)
Gonna keep my two posts separate:
Has anyone tested Ankh of Mishra or the more known Winter Orb in their sideboards before?
Even though I play drum and opal, I still shyed away from Winter orb as it can still hurt my worst draws. I haven't tested it much.
I thought alot about Ankh of Mishra, especially against Grixis, Lands or Miracles (with their back to basics build) and it can deal 4 damage per fetch land and can be devastating.
@alanyuan: Your deck belongs in another Thread, because Steel Stompy is designed to abuse sol lands in combination with CotV and walking ballista and your deck has none of these cards.
Your deck is an Aggro deck and men of steel, as i call my deck, is a prison deck with a fast clock:cool:
Yah no Ballista or CoTV. It does share everything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Man of Steel
If I could ask, how are people finding Etched Champion in this deck main/board?
Which matchups have you liked champion?
i think ballista and/or hangarback are warranted with master of etherium. you can drop them for 0 mana and then go crazy with overseer + ravager.