Sorry if I missed something, but isn't this a great place for Summoner's Pact? It'd find the Kavu or, more efficiently, be Skyshroud Cutter 5-8.
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Sorry if I missed something, but isn't this a great place for Summoner's Pact? It'd find the Kavu or, more efficiently, be Skyshroud Cutter 5-8.
I will give this a try. There are some flex slots in a more explosive list:Quote:
Originally Posted by Begle1
4 Kavu Predator
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Skyshroud Cutter
4 Dark Confidant
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Lotus Petal
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Summoner's Pact
3 Berserk
4 Reverent Silence
4 Invigorate
4 False Cure
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Forest
SB: 4 Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 Duress
SB: 4 Hymn to Tourach
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
I played a list close to hooligan's at our local Monday night legacy. I cut a few cards and put in some lotus petals. I wanted to be more explosive and less vulnerable to wastelands in our meta. I went 3-1 over 4 rounds. The deck was good fun and I'll probably play it again.
R1: Andrew on DnT splash black for bob/deathrite
2-1
G1: Duress a StP, land a kavu, make it a 7/7 trampler, GG
G2: I kept a urborg, cure, 4x cutter, duress. I never drew a land and died =(
G3: Duressed, saw 2 StP and took one. I played a bob to draw the second swords and then played a Kavu and made it huge to win.
R2: Erik on Young Frankenstein
2-0
G1: Oh em gee I hate treasure cruise. I shredded his hand with discard and it didn't matter. He played dig through time, then cruised, and then cruised again. In the end I won without playing kavu or false cure. However, that was due to shear shitty luck on his draws. It's frustrating that I had double deathrites and it didn't slow down the delves by any noticeable amount.
G2: I had 2 swords and 1 decay for his early pyros. Eventually I got there with Kavu, double skyshroud.
R3: New guy on Oops all spells
2-1
G1: I know he's on Oops and he's won the die-roll, i prepare for a reaming and mull down to 5 to find a turn 1 discard spell. It turns out he kept a slow hand and duress into giant kavu wins.
G2: I turn my deck into a pile of hate with lots of discard, teeg, scooze, and so forth. It doens't matter, he wins turn 1.
G3: I duress him turn 1 and then land a scooze and ride it to victory.
R4: Josiah on winstigator goblins
1-2
G1: I lose the die roll and he gets there on like turn 3.
G2: Two quick 7/7 Kavus get there.
G3: This game was rough. I had a great hand but he landed a turn 2 instigator and then had 3 bounce goblins and a tarfire to force me to block the winstigator unproductively with my Bobs and then Kavus.
Of all the matches the one I would expect to win is the one that I lost.
How did your new playlist test out?Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
Hmm, why Quirion Ranger?
To address the questions:
The new explosive list was alright, but chalice works better in that slot right now. Shutting off your opponent's cantrips and 1 mana removal is super solid.
As far as quirion ranger: it allows you to play with less lands as you usually only need 2 bayou activations for a false cure while going off. it can also protect the bayous that you have from wasteland.
That's some cool tech, how has it worked out? I've been brewing a chalice list too, but haven't been happy with it yet. What's your list? Agreed that explosive isn't a reason to play this deck, Elves and Infect are just better at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
I was incredibly bored in Christmas mass and brewed up a BUG list. Still working on it. But why hasn't this deck played blue before?
I think a BUG version could definitely work. This deck is just so rogue that there are very few people trying new things with it, let alone playing it at all. There may as well be a "crickets chirping" audio built in to this thread.
I have been toying around with chalice builds, git probe cabal theray builds, and Junk/Jund style builds that are more midrange focused but have the combo element thrown in. So far I have had the best success with DRS Junk builds, but the different versions definitely warrant more testing.
The incentives to play this deck in the current meta are it's positive UR, Storm, Stoneforge Mystic matchups. I have had a hard time in the past with other fast combo decks and BGx midrange, but at least thoughtseize, lili, and decay are underplayed right now.
Hey all I just started visiting this site again for the first time in a while. Never knew this deck was a thing but now I'm in love with the idea. I've been kicking around a bunch of jund builds around Young Pyromancer / Cabal Therapy and I think that shell could do wonders for this deck. Pyromancer would offer the deck another premium threat to draw removal.
Opening up red does a lot of cool things like the option of punishing fire/grove of the burnwillows for extra predator synergy too. At that point Faithless Looting starts looking really good for consistency and binning value therapies/fires.
Other Ideas that aren't necessarily tied to adding red but would also be cool with red:
Fauna Shaman+Vengevine: Fauna fuels the awesome vine plan or gets whatever creature part of the combo you need and plays well with the quirion rangers that I like in some of the lists I'm seeing. It's also a lightning rod for removal clearing the way for predator. Vengevine seems like a sweet way to add fast value to the deck to overpower midrange strategies. It plays very well with skyshroud cutters and the generally low curve. I like the vengevine plan over the berserks I see in more all in builds as a way make the deck more explosive.
Wild Mongrel+Life from the Loam(and maybe some basking rootwallas): This seems like a natural addition to the vengevine plan as another discard outlet. I'm not sure if rootwallas are necessary but I really like how life from the loam would fuel mongrel and help the deck fight off wastelands.
Junk seems like another solid way to build the deck. Mother of Runes/Stoneforge Mystic+Equipment/Swords to Plowshares seems like a very solid way to fill out the core of the deck. Stoneforge for jitte and batterskull are great at fighting the creature decks. Mother of Runes is the best way to protect predator once white is opened up. I think this is the biggest miss from the junk lists I see posted that are splashing for swords. The deck could build its mana base stressing scrubland alongside Bayou to hit it's colors properly. Maybe something like this:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
1 Quirion Ranger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Kavu Predator
4 Skyshroud Cutter
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 False Cure
4 Invigorate
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Windswept Heath
4 Scrubland
4 Bayou
1 Drayd Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Forest
All of this is said without a lick of testing but it all seems solid enough in my head. I love what's going on here and the experience that's being shared with this cool deck.
Hm, never thought about playing Mother of Runes in this deck. I will have to try it.
Sent from my KFARWI using Forum Fiend v1.2.14.
It is an intriguing thought. This is why I don't think it'll be good: false cure is an important part of why this deck may not be terrible. Mother of Runes does not protect spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
Came across this deck while trying to kill time at work and figured id give it a try since i had most the stuff and only missing the dollar or less cards i threw it together and bought the rest, unfortunitaly could only find 2 Kavu before the tournement last night but still went 2-1. Losing only to MUD by not being able to hit a land with 2 Bobs on my last turn.
Lost to Mud round 1 : 1-2
Beat Maverick round 2 : 2-0
Beat Infect Round 3 : 2-0
Nice! I am curious about the infect matchup, what happened there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Undari1993
Knowing he was playing infect i was kinda scared, didnt know how the match would go to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
Game 1 - (on the play) I turn 1 deathrite and pass. He drops a hiarch and passes back. I top deck a fetch and fetch out another Bayou. and swing with DRS for 1, and being cocky the kid says yeah sure i'll take one. But in response to damage i cast False Cure and invigorate my DRS dealing a total of 8. Then main phase 2 i cast 2 Revelant silence. For the win.
Forgot exactly what i sided out but i put in Chokes and Chalices.
Game 2 - He goes first and has a land drop but no play, i drop a DRS on my turn and pass, his turn 2 he plays Blighted agent and passes, i Drop a chalice on one and pass, he casts a brainstorm which is countered and then plays another agent, swings for 1, on my turn while he is tapped out i take advantage and play a choke. His turn he swings for 2 and passes back. I Decay one agent and Swords the other. Hes draws one land in the next 4 turns but still cant cast anything. i False cure and cast 2 Skyshroud and a Revilent silence. but have the DRS to burn him for the last 2.
How did this decklist workout for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shakara
Swords with Chalice @ 1 ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Undari1993
This deck looks awesome and super fun to play. Are there any videos of actual gameplay that I could watch to get a feel for how the deck plays out?
sorry i was typing the report at work, it was double decay, thinking of the game we played for fun since we were done fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
What's your current decklist?Quote:
Originally Posted by Undari1993
I played kc.hogens list from page 16. Except only could find 2 kavu so I played 2 kavu and 4 Revelent silence. In the spot of duress I played cabal therapy.Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
Is there anything you would change (other than 4 Predators once you get the other 2)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Undari1993
I have found 2 more kavu predators but won't have the chance to play it until Monday. Might be able to get to a tournement before then. But I have taken out the white and going to try more discard and see how that works. Alot of the time I have the kill in hand but it's hard to play around counters. And then there is no other real threat once they counter false cure.Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
Maybe instead of the white you splash red for Pyroblast/REB?Quote:
Originally Posted by Undari1993
That is another possability, i just picked up Badlands so i can give it a test.Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
Let me know how it goes/what list you end up with.
I just picked up the cards I needed for the deck. Does this deck basically destroy non-disruptive decks? I'm not sure what decks like D&T, Jund, Junk, etc. can do about this deck (Leyline can take care of discard spells post-board).
What are the matchups with top decks like? Obviously counterspells are an issue, but we run enough discard for it to not be an issue. We could also run something like Defense Grid.
Did you get a chance to play yesterday? I'm curious to hear how it went.
no i did not, Maybe tomorrow night if it doesnt snow to bad.
I'm planning on playing this at my local Legacy event tomorrow as well. Probably won't do too well given that I've never played it before, but I'm excited to give a new deck a try.
My meta consists of a few combo decks (usually ANT, OnniTell, Painter, sometimes Belcher), Reanimator, Dredge, DnT, Junk, Delver variants, etc.
I've played the deck some too (k.c.hogan and I built the list he was running) so I might be able to help out here. The manabase is pretty greedy - only playing 18 lands, few basics, with double-black spells and a splash. So a great way for the non-blue decks to beat you is to Wasteland lands and kill Deathrite. Another issue if you're playing against a smart player is that False Cure is symmetrical - they can Plow a giant Kavu Predator to burn you out. But honestly that doesn't come up much. What comes up more often is that you're really, really dependent on having a Kavu Predator in play, so lots of removal is an issue. You only have 4 in the deck. Against decks with mana denial or discard, it's difficult to build up enough lifegain spells to burn them out with False Cure (although Deathrite burns and Bob beats make it easier).Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
I'd actually say that counterspells are not an issue because you never have to commit - if they counter False Cure you haven't committed anything, and the life gain is a cost for all the other spells.
Regarding the list - definitely don't play Sensei's Top. It's way too mana hungry for this deck. Sylvan Library is far better.
Awesome! Thanks for the input. I already made the swap for Sylvan Library. That's a good point re: counterspells. It's just a 1-for-1 if they counter your False Cure. As for the removal, those decks likely can't deal with a resolved False cure + lifegain spells, so maybe that's the safer route in those matchups? I run the one-of Safekeeper, and Mother of Runes/Vines of Vastwood/etc might be worth looking into as well. The list k.c.hogan was running didn't run any Reverent Silence or Refreshing Rain. Don't those play into the goal, or are they too dependent on False Cure as they don't do much on their own?Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmutant
Mostly we ran out of room in the deck. Could be good, but Sylvan Library is not a combo with Reverant SilenceQuote:
Originally Posted by TLK
I know I've asked this question before, but I would like to see other opinions on this. I was thinking of applying the Nic Fit Shell to this Deck (Veteran Explorer + Cabal Therapy). I like it because it allows you to clear the way for Kavu on your 2nd turn for any potential hate while also getting the double black mana needed for False Cure for a potential third turn kill. Thoughts and opinions?
Nic Fit makes good use of the mana by ramping into huge threats -- our primary threat costs 2cmc so we don't use the mana as well -- not to mention we definitely don't want to ramp decks like Miracles. I play a couple Thoughtseize in the main which accomplishes the same thing. There's also the issue of space, we're a tight shell as is.Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzdizon
Yeah, that doesn't seem like it would be a good fit for this deck. It seems you only need a few mana to function, so the ramp is unnecessary and even detrimental in certain matchups given that the effect is symmetrical.
I'm going to be piloting this deck for the first time tonight. Hopefully I don't make too many mistakes. I'm sure I'll catch some people off guard for sure. I'm looking forward to picking up some free wins that way.
Are you going to be using KC Hogans decklist or another that was posted on here?Quote:
Originally Posted by TLK
kc.hogan's list with maybe a couple card changes.
Well that was rough. Went 1-2. Round 1 I beat MUD with Kavu Predator game 1 and a giant False Cure game 2. Round 2 I lost 1-2 to Reanimator. Won game 1 by hilariously responding to a Griselbrand attack with a False Cure for lethal. Games 2 and 3 were close but apparently a turn 1 Deathrite isn't quick enough. Round 3 I lost 0-2 to Burn. Guess I should've brought my COP:Red.
Sup fellow Cure-ers?...
I wanted to play berserk, but I am cheap and had jund colors so i am trying our Temur Battle Rage.
2 Bayou
2 Badlands
1 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Kavu Predator
4 Dark Confidant
4 Skyshroud Cutter
4 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
4 False Cure
4 Invigorate
3 Temur Battle Rage
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Reverent Silence
SB: 3 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Duress
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Apostle's Blessing
Great idea, the red gives you side deck counters. which is always a plus!! Kavu already has trample so it only needs the double strike. its lik a 2 costing berserk for 75 bucks less haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
let us know how it works...
Yeah, I should just play assault strobe instead. Good callQuote:
Originally Posted by Undari1993