[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

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ARE YOU RETARDED? A) you seriously think that Leyline of the Void, Extirpate, Thoughtseize, Dark Confidant, Engineered Plague, the only finisher that I've seen mentioned that doesn't die to the rest of the deck's inherent weaknesses, and all of the other randomly useful SB (and MD) tech that black has to offer isn't relevant?!!!?? And that the two(!) cards that green offers are more relevant when they have parallels in white and bw? And white somehow gives you a relevant finisher... And you think that I can't support UU and BB in the same manabase in a TWO COLOR DECK?!! Two colors. Seriously? Do you not know about Ubw landstill? What about 4c? Uhh... Wow, I presume that your bias is too acute to actually argue with at this point.

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First off, your original post said nothing about having both a white AND a black splash, so all of the "parallels in white and bw" are not available to you. You were proposing a mono-black list, which was even more evident when you threw capslock on and typed out "TWO COLOR DECK?!!" If you're playing a two color deck you don't get O-ring or Kgrip unless you're in their colors. You lose almost all relevant artifact and enchantment disruption and that means you scoop to quite a few cards, I.E. Humility, 3sphere, Moat, ect.

Yea, you get Plague, Confidant, Leyline, Extripate, and thoughtseize. Ok, so In a deck with 3 trinket mages main, I'm not going to run leyline. I'm going to run crypt, as crypt takes up less slots, is less taxing on the manabase, and serves a very similar purpose. I've already expressed that I don't think Confidant is necessary. The fact that you want to run Confidant, Force, and Tombstalker in the same deck doesn't ring any bells for you at all? Ripping Tombstalker and taking eight is probably one of the least fun experiences you can have playing any deck. Besides this fact, we already have standstill. The draw engine in the deck is perfectly fine as it is.

Engineered plague is great against Goblins. Thats fine and all, but again, this card does NOTHING to Control decks, and does very little against a wide variety of decks that aren't trying to ETW or beat with piledriver. Speaking of Combo, yea, Extirpate is a total house against combo. Except that this deck runs 4x Stifle, 4x Force, 4/3x Daze, some number of spell snares, and on the front page of this very thread it states

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TES Preboard 70/30- Daze, FoW, Spell Snare, Stifle and Standstills to replenish hand. Definetally don't let a Chant Resolve. Counterbalance is probally your MVP here.
Postboard 70/30- You bring in chills to hose down their random kill conds and excell like ETW and Rite of Flame. Also Echoing Truth kills them when they combo off with ETW. Makes it very hard for them to recover from this.
[Side, -1 Spell Snare -2 Trinket Mage, -1 Pithing Needle, +2 Chill +2 Echoing Truth]

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We already wreck combo. We don't really need to wreck it any harder.
Sure, Chills haven't been in the sideboard for a while, but we now have BEBs. And again, unless you manage to send Humility/Moat/3shpere to the graveyard (Which you can't) you can't extripate them, or any other non-sacrificing artifact or enchantment. Sure, you have thoughtseize for those cards. But thoughtseize needs to be cast before these spells hit the table, where Kgrip and Oblivion ring can nail them after they hit, which is a major bonus, as you can dig for Kgrip/Oring after a problem card hits play, whereas you can't dig for thoughtsieze, as it will do nothing in that situation.

Black does offer a lot of great spells, but most of those spells are ones that improve a function of the deck that already works fine without the black splash.


If you want to run a white and a black splash with 7 lands that produce no colored mana, in a format where quite a few decks are packing wastes and other non-basic disruption maindeck, be my guest. You will have mana problems. For Refrence:
This is the manabase used by Tacosnape in his Uwbg Landstill list. (Taken right from the tread in the DTB section)

4 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
4 Tropical Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Nantuko Monestary

He runs four more lands than we do, at 24. He runs no basics. He only runs 6 non-color producing lands MD. Dreadstill only runs 20 lands. These manabases are hardly comparable. We run a tighter ship with the same (more in this case) colorless producing lands. He's actually running 18 lands that produce colored mana to our 13 lands that produce colored mana, and he doesn't even have any basics maindeck. You cannot assume you will be able to reliably get three colors out of only 12-13 color-producing lands maindeck, and still keep a high count of basic islands. In order to get all three colors for your double black and double blue, you will need to cut most if not all of your basics. Your manabase will weaken significantly. I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm saying you're going to run into problems.

As a side note, I'm not hating on Tacosnape's manabase. He rocks, his decks rock, he's better at this game than me, blah blah designed dragonstompy, blah. I'm not really trying to hate on anybody, but I also don't think my posts are being taken that way.

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So you're playing th Ug list in an agro-oriented metagame (the only place where real agro can survive)... Otay, that's an enormout mistake, as you should take the Ur list and rip holes in that metagame with PyroK and Firespout. Also, turn four isn't that late against agro if you're playing the deck right (i.e. stopping relevant threats, disrupting their manabase/ keeping a fair hold on the stack), so I don't know what to say to that portion of your argument.

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I'm not playing in an aggro meta. We get a decent amount of Combo, a decent amount of Threshold, and quite a few control decks (I'm lumping Mono-White Stax, Moonstax, enchantress, and quite a few other decks in here) that doesn't mean I don't run into the random Sligh/Gobbos/aggro deck. My original point was that Gofy is going to be a lot better against aggro than Tombstalker, not that green was the best color against aggro. Green isn't. But Goyf IS better against aggro decks than Tombstalker.

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Also, the deck runs 10 lands that don't stay in play and >20(!) non-permanent spells, depending on the list, of course. So you're saying that, out of 10 cards at minimum (meaning no BS/ Digging in the first 4 turns), less then 4 of them are going to the yard. 10/2 = 5. Where are you deriving your points from? Seriously, I'd like to know, because it's apparent you aren't pulling them from facts or logic.

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Just because my opening hand has four or five cards that are capable of going to the graveyard, does not mean I'm going to immediately put them there, or that I will immediately have the mana to put them there. Of the ten lands that don't stay in play, I'm going to assume you are thinking four are wastelands. Those four lands probably wont just get tossed into the grave, as I'm going to need them to play stuff. Unless I hit two fetchlands (of the six in my deck) I'm only going to have zero to one lands in the yard by turn 3/4, as I'm going to be using my wasteland to cast spells. If I've got stifle in my opening hand, I'm not unnecessarily going to throw it at the first fetchland I see. I'll probably hold onto it for Noughts/more relevant cards. This is probably a playstyle difference between the two of us. I'll pass it off as that at least.

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Have fun with your Tarmogoyfs and KGrips, I'll just be off over here drawing cards like a champ, crushing control and Agro-control, having game against Ichorid, stoping threats both reactively and proactively, have MD removal to stop your retarded 'Goyfs, swing over a gummed up board ftw, and prolly not loosing to the threshold player that runs both CB and Threads of Disloyalty in the MD that's going to rape your house, much less your couch. Enjoy yourself out there =] ^_^

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Ok, Borderline Flame? It's not like I care, but I'm assuming you don't want warnings. I'd appreciate it personally if you kept a level head as well, as it makes your points much easier to understand/make counterpoints to. Thanks.

and as for your logic in this argument, I fail to see how you can crush control when you have no outs against (I feel like a broken record) Moat/Humility/3sphere/any artifact or enchantment your opponent plays. Drawing cards like a champ is offset by losing eight life like a chump, as well as the fact that every other version of the deck is capable of drawing plenty of cards. We. Run. Standstill. We don't really need confidant when we have plenty of draw power already.

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prolly not loosing to the threshold player that runs both CB and Threads of Disloyalty in the MD that's going to rape your house, much less your couch.

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Green has Kgrip for CB and Threads. Black has no outs to either of those spells when they either counter >half you deck, or steal your nought.

Irony much?

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stoping threats both reactively and proactively

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Please enlighten me. How does the black splash reactively stop 3sphere or Humility or Counterbalance, or any other artifact or enchantment. Please don't say Oring, because again, it's my understanding you're not playing white.

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TWO COLOR DECK?!! Two colors.

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Remember?


Listen, I'm not trying to hate on you personally. I sincerely apologize if thats how it sounded in my first response to you. I'm not saying your ideas are irrelevant, only that the Mono-black splash of Dreadstill is going to be less effective in that it has very few responses to several well-played cards, where other splash colors have numerous responses to those cards. In my humble opinion, a splash color should be added to shore up weaknesses of a deck, or to give a deck a significant boost in power. The Green splash in dreadstill offers a reliable finisher, and a reliable out to artifacts and enchantments, which blue by itself is lacking. The black splash offers what is (again, in my opinion) a less reliable finisher, no outs to artifacts and enchantments, and a number of cards that accomplish things that this deck is already very well capable of doing without them, paired with a great draw spell (Confidant). However, because Blue already has a great surplus of draw spells that are being run in this deck, and because of the riskiness of the drawspell that black offers, my mindset is that dreadstill is going to move towards a green or white splash. None of this argument is a personal attack on you, and none of it is meant to be.

Thanks for taking the time to read all this (assuming you did).

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Originally Posted by Maagler

I have been playtesting the deck with the 4 Enlightened Tutor, and have found it to be very powerful. There is some great synergy with Enlightened Tutor and counterbalance, also it is cheaper than trinket mage which I am finding to be on e of the weaker cards in the deck.

also the deck boasts 2 shackles which give the deck a powerful way to deal with opposing creatures.

I think I still need more testing but I am starting to like the deck more and more with every game.

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I had been saying that from the getgo, when I started my dreaded fish thread... however, no body listens to the genius....

Also, at the person who said meddling mage is amazing fro protecting dreadnought ------> I was also ignored on that point as well...

However, I stopped playing dreadnought a long time ago... I just wanted to point out that I have been right all this time, and people are fools not to listen to me when I am actually trying to say something.

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Originally Posted by thefreakaccident

meddling mage is amazing fro protecting dreadnought ------> I was also ignored on that point as well...

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Pretty sure I did that first.....

The dreaded fish thread started on 12/28/07, whereas this thread started in 3/18/08... My first post of that thread included maddling mage for the first sample list... add into the fact that I had been fiddling with dreadnought for a while before that...

Needless to say, I beat you to the punch by.... at least 3 months.. however, I would also state that this is just when you had made your thread, and I could have beaten you to the punch even longer than that.

Also...

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...9&postcount=66


My first list posted here for a dreadnought deck: 9/6/07


I also believe I beat you to this concept as well...

However, you were the one that developed it into being a competitive force...

For that, I give Kudos... I just want some recognition is all :) .


That was the first Ug dreadnought deck of its' class... an updated version (not sure if this belongs here or not)... would look like this:


lands//18
4 wasteland
4 tropical island
1 breeding pool
3 polluted delta
3 flooded strand
3 island


creatures//11
4 tarmogoyf
4 phyrexian dreadnought
3 trinket mage

spells//31
4 stifle
2 trickbind
4 daze
4 force of will
2 sensei's divining top
4 counterbalance
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
1 engineered explosives
1 wipe away
1 rushing river


The deck is very similar in concept to dreadstill... although it is slightly less controlling, and slightly more aggressive... different breeds, if you will...

The sideboard would be determined by meta, of coarse.

Yes but your first post here had zero to do with Meddling Mage. I also didn't even know that a Dreaded Fish thread existed until page 15 of this thread, but whatever it doesn't matter.

You're right... it doesn't matter too much...

The bottom line is that mage is a good card for dreadnought decks as he allows this deck to proactively deal with threatening cards that may pop up, as well as stop this decks' bane (grip), allowing you to stop their solutions from there on out (their removal, which will be pointed at mage, is not split second... ).

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Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda

First off, your original post said nothing about having both a white AND a black splash, so all of the "parallels in white and bw" are not available to you. You were proposing a mono-black list, which was even more evident when you threw capslock on and typed out "TWO COLOR DECK?!!" If you're playing a two color deck you don't get O-ring or Kgrip unless you're in their colors. You lose almost all relevant artifact and enchantment disruption and that means you scoop to quite a few cards, I.E. Humility, 3sphere, Moat, ect.

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And don’t forget CB, you’ll eat it to a resolved CB. Considering that there are a good few metagames where those cards aren’t played, the black splash can be entirely viable as a stand alone, although I’d still recommend the Uwb deck over the Ub list outside of certain situations. Also, yes, you were arguing the possibility of running two colors in a 20 lands deck. I simply responded to that. Considering that there have already been manabases in this thread that could hold up the bw splash, I’m pretty sure we all know it can happen.

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Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda

Yea, you get Plague, Confidant, Leyline, Extripate, and thoughtseize. Ok, so In a deck with 3 trinket mages main, I'm not going to run leyline. I'm going to run crypt, as crypt takes up less slots, is less taxing on the manabase, and serves a very similar purpose.

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Leyline isn’t vulnerable to Pithing Needle, comes into play at the beginning of the game, and doesn’t even have to go on the stack, so I think that your concern about the Manabase is a little petty, considering that you’re going to have to Mage your crypt out anyway.

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Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda

I've already expressed that I don't think Confidant is necessary. The fact that you want to run Confidant, Force, and Tombstalker in the same deck doesn't ring any bells for you at all? Ripping Tombstalker and taking eight is probably one of the least fun experiences you can have playing any deck. Besides this fact, we already have standstill. The draw engine in the deck is perfectly fine as it is.

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Well, SDT > Dark Confidant, so if you ever have that happen, well… Sorry? I’ve played with Confi and TS in decks without SDT, and it happens like once every 983450893 games. Seriously, it’s almost a non-issue without top and it shouldn’t be a problem in the least with top. Also, Confidant isn’t a draw spell, he’s a draw engine that rewards you progressively over the course of the game, win you the resource war against Control, and keep your hand filled with disruption against combo. A little bit less than stellar against agro, but if you need him to he’ll dig you into a PD and Stifle/ Trickbind.

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Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda

Engineered plague is great against Goblins. Thats fine and all, but again, this card does NOTHING to Control decks, and does very little against a wide variety of decks that aren't trying to ETW or beat with piledriver. Speaking of Combo, yea, Extirpate is a total house against combo. Except that this deck runs 4x Stifle, 4x Force, 4/3x Daze, some number of spell snares, and on the front page of this very thread it states... We already wreck combo. We don't really need to wreck it any harder.
Sure, Chills haven't been in the sideboard for a while, but we now have BEBs. And again, unless you manage to send Humility/Moat/3shpere to the graveyard (Which you can't) you can't extripate them, or any other non-sacrificing artifact or enchantment. Sure, you have thoughtseize for those cards. But thoughtseize needs to be cast before these spells hit the table, where Kgrip and Oblivion ring can nail them after they hit, which is a major bonus, as you can dig for Kgrip/Oring after a problem card hits play, whereas you can't dig for thoughtsieze, as it will do nothing in that situation.

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Fine then, play Infest, Dry Spell, or freaking Hideous Laughter if you don’t like E. Plague and/or have problems with non goblin agro and non EtW token swarms. Or E. Truth. Seriously, it’s not like E. Plague is bad, it’s a metagame card, just like everything else in the SB most likely is.

Extirpate also hoses Threshold, other control, Ichorid, is strong against the Mirror (last I heard, Dreadstill isn’t that hot without the FoWs) and is just generally good against a large number of decks outside Agro. Also, you can, you know, counter stuff and Extirpate it then. I presume that if you’re really worried about those pesky enchantments you could have Thoughtseize in addition to the standard Countermagic suite and DC drawing you into a steady stream of said disruption and permission.

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Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda

Black does offer a lot of great spells, but most of those spells are ones that improve a function of the deck that already works fine without the black splash.

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So you’re arguing against strengthening the deck? Lolwut?

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Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda

If you want to run a white and a black splash with 7 lands that produce no colored mana, in a format where quite a few decks are packing wastes and other non-basic disruption maindeck, be my guest. You will have mana problems. For Refrence:
This is the manabase used by Tacosnape in his Uwbg Landstill list. (Taken right from the tread in the DTB section)

4 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
4 Tropical Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Nantuko Monestary

He runs four more lands than we do, at 24. He runs no basics. He only runs 6 non-color producing lands MD. Dreadstill only runs 20 lands. These manabases are hardly comparable. We run a tighter ship with the same (more in this case) colorless producing lands. He's actually running 18 lands that produce colored mana to our 13 lands that produce colored mana, and he doesn't even have any basics maindeck. You cannot assume you will be able to reliably get three colors out of only 12-13 color-producing lands maindeck, and still keep a high count of basic islands. In order to get all three colors for your double black and double blue, you will need to cut most if not all of your basics. Your manabase will weaken significantly. I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm saying you're going to run into problems.

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1 underground sea
1 scrubland
3 island
3 plains
4 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
4 mishra's factory
1 academy ruins
1 tolaria west
4 tundra

That’s the Manabase from thefreakaccident’s most recent list in the Uwx landstill thread. Notice that you could basicly invert the W and B fetch land and dual count, tweak the ratios of them slightly, and have a playable Manabase. I presume that it would look something like this:

3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Mishra’s Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Island

With the Island being enough with 6 fetches to nab your basic to BEB Dragon Stompy’s manadenial if you’re on the play. If not, well, it’s a bad mu. Don’t play 3c in a Dstompy metagame. That’s true of about 90% of 3c decks. Bawww, you don’t have as many basic Islands. Against everything but Dragon Stompy that’s a pretty much irrelevant point.

Also, you were the one saying that’s it was impossible to get UU and BB out of 13 color producing lands. I was responding to that claim. I’ll readily admit that the 3c Manabase isn’t as stout. That’s true of all decks.

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Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda

As a side note, I'm not hating on Tacosnape's manabase. He rocks, his decks rock, he's better at this game than me, blah blah designed dragonstompy, blah. I'm not really trying to hate on anybody, but I also don't think my posts are being taken that way.

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No-one would infer that. I think there’s a general consensus that eh is a pretty cool guy and doesn’t afraid of anything :tongue:

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Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda

I'm not playing in an aggro meta. We get a decent amount of Combo, a decent amount of Threshold, and quite a few control decks (I'm lumping Mono-White Stax, Moonstax, enchantress, and quite a few other decks in here) that doesn't mean I don't run into the random Sligh/Gobbos/aggro deck. My original point was that Gofy is going to be a lot better against aggro than Tombstalker, not that green was the best color against aggro. Green isn't. But Goyf IS better against aggro decks than Tombstalker.

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Or you could just play tight and have a stronger deck with elements that dodge hate that hoses the traditional drawbacks of the rest of your deck… Just throwing out an idea :]

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Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda

Just because my opening hand has four or five cards that are capable of going to the graveyard, does not mean I'm going to immediately put them there, or that I will immediately have the mana to put them there. Of the ten lands that don't stay in play, I'm going to assume you are thinking four are wastelands. Those four lands probably wont just get tossed into the grave, as I'm going to need them to play stuff. Unless I hit two fetchlands (of the six in my deck) I'm only going to have zero to one lands in the yard by turn 3/4, as I'm going to be using my wasteland to cast spells. If I've got stifle in my opening hand, I'm not unnecessarily going to throw it at the first fetchland I see. I'll probably hold onto it for Noughts/more relevant cards. This is probably a playstyle difference between the two of us. I'll pass it off as that at least.

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So you’re not going play reactively in a control deck, you’re not going to tap your Wastelands for mana when playing TS (it adds the same amount of mana wherever it is, as far as that‘s concerned), you’re not going to use fetch lands for mana, and you’re not going to play your Stifles prudently (I.e. hitting fetches) when you know you’re going to have a TS in hand/ already have one? That sounds like dubious play choices based on the knowledge you have (Yes, you shouldn’t expend resources needlessly, so I’d assume you’d assume a TS in hand/ you knew one was coming up, and let's not make like the Human Torch, plz).

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Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda

Ok, Borderline Flame? It's not like I care, but I'm assuming you don't want warnings. I'd appreciate it personally if you kept a level head as well, as it makes your points much easier to understand/make counterpoints to. Thanks.

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Uh… Really? That’s what the deck would do with the options black has. To say that the cards would do something other than what they do, and then take it as a flame is kinda strange, but I presume people are people.

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Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda

and as for your logic in this argument, I fail to see how you can crush control when you have no outs against (I feel like a broken record) Moat/Humility/3sphere/any artifact or enchantment your opponent plays. Drawing cards like a champ is offset by losing eight life like a chump, as well as the fact that every other version of the deck is capable of drawing plenty of cards. We. Run. Standstill. We don't really need confidant when we have plenty of draw power already.

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A) I really don’t think that either landstill or MUC gives a fuck about standstill. Just my two cents.
B) If you seriously are that worried about the interaction, I don’t know what to say. I mean, the curve of the deck is like, 1.2. You’re not going to take that much damage, and if you’re still going to bawl about the one in 1000 chance of hitting a TS off of a blind Confidant reveal, I don’t know what to say.
C) Having more proactive solutions and the same amount of reactive answers (in the Ub version, not the Ubw version, that’s fine just fine with your laundry list of enchantments and whatnot), alongside with more draw to keep fully stocked, I think I’ll be just as well off (although of one of those resolves, outside Humility, I can just play TS and beat through like normal if need be. 3 sphere would certainly be annoying, but it doesn‘t hinder my secondary win condition as ridiculously as it does my primary).

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Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda

Green has Kgrip for CB and Threads. Black has no outs to either of those spells when they either counter >half you deck, or steal your nought.

Irony much?

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Hove fun taking my TS with Threads over there. Also, I think the Ubw lists are > the Ub lists because of the stronger removal options and multiple outs to artifacts and enchantments. Better now?

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Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda

Please enlighten me. How does the black splash reactively stop 3sphere or Humility or Counterbalance, or any other artifact or enchantment. Please don't say Oring, because again, it's my understanding you're not playing white. Remember?

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Hove fun taking my TS with Threads over there. Also, I think the Ubw lists are > the Ub lists because of the stronger removal options and multiple outs to artifacts and enchantments. Better now?

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Originally Posted by The_Red_Panda

Listen, I'm not trying to hate on you personally. I sincerely apologize if thats how it sounded in my first response to you. I'm not saying your ideas are irrelevant, only that the Mono-black splash of Dreadstill is going to be less effective in that it has very few responses to several well-played cards, where other splash colors have numerous responses to those cards. In my humble opinion, a splash color should be added to shore up weaknesses of a deck, or to give a deck a significant boost in power. The Green splash in dreadstill offers a reliable finisher, and a reliable out to artifacts and enchantments, which blue by itself is lacking. The black splash offers what is (again, in my opinion) a less reliable finisher, no outs to artifacts and enchantments, and a number of cards that accomplish things that this deck is already very well capable of doing without them, paired with a great draw spell (Confidant). However, because Blue already has a great surplus of draw spells that are being run in this deck, and because of the riskiness of the drawspell that black offers, my mindset is that dreadstill is going to move towards a green or white splash. None of this argument is a personal attack on you, and none of it is meant to be.

Thanks for taking the time to read all this (assuming you did).

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It’s a forum of development and design. We attack the ideas, not the person :] I don't take things personally here. At any rate, I presume we’ve come to a point where it’s time to agree to disagree. On a side note, does anyone think that removing the Wastelands to support a 3c splash better would be feasible?

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Originally Posted by raharu

On a side note, does anyone think that removing the Wastelands to support a 3c splash better would be feasible?

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Absolutley not, Wasteland is so strong in this deck it's stupid. Trust me I tried to remove them a while back and it didn't go well. You need them to fight under Standstills, kill manabases(especially important if your list is running 2 Trickbind, which it should be).

I'm not sure if the Ubw lists look to good, they seem like they have to many clunky cards in them. I really don't like Tombstalker in this deck, not because revealing it with Bob sucks, but because you can't reliably cast it against any deck that packs Wastelands and/or Moon effects.

The arguments over X-splash is better then Y-splash for Z-reasons is kinda silly really. I recently checked out splashes that have done well and this is what I configured. I used this http://www.deckcheck.net/list.php?type=Dreadstill and some small T8 tournaments in the T4 and T8 Thread to put together some results of which splashes have been doing the best.

Placings:

Mono U- 4
UB- 3
UG- 10
UR- 4
UGR- 5
UW- 5

Seems like UG has been preforming the best due to Goyf most likely. UGR and UW seem be doing second best to it and UB seems to be the most underpowered. And to cutting Wastelands from Dreadstill I'd have to go with absolutely not. You need them to win the Standstill battles if and when your oponents play manlands and/or their own wastes.

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Originally Posted by Roodmistah

... UB seems to be the most underpowered.

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I don't know about that Rodney I think it's under played.

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And don’t forget CB, you’ll eat it to a resolved CB.

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How do I eat it to a counterbalance when I have removal for counterbalance?? If any splash version eats it to counterbalance, its the one with no removal for CB, which is the black one... I think there must be either a mistype in that section of your post, or I'm not getting the way you worded that response correctly.

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Also, you were the one saying that’s it was impossible to get UU and BB out of 13 color producing lands. I was responding to that claim. I’ll readily admit that the 3c Manabase isn’t as stout. That’s true of all decks.

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My problem with a mono-black splash has been primarily with the lack of disruption for permanents. The mana base is shakier as well, what with needing double-black for TS as opposed to single green for Tarmogoyf, but thats less important than the fact that you flat-out scoop to several cards.

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Considering that there have already been manabases in this thread that could hold up the bw splash, I’m pretty sure we all know it can happen.

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I never said it couldn't happen. I've said twice:

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I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm saying you're going to run into problems.

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It could work, but you can kiss all those lovely basic islands goodbye.

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I never said anything about it not ever working. I said you're going to have problems with the manabase. Decks that hate on the manabase hurt even in the two color version of the deck, it's just the nature of all the nonbasics we play. But the three color version gets even MORE hate, because it has a hard time running ANY basics, as the list you provided only manages to squeeze one in. Dragonstompy isn't fun, and getting blood mooned back into the stoneage is a terrible way to get a game loss.

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Leyline isn’t vulnerable to Pithing Needle, comes into play at the beginning of the game, and doesn’t even have to go on the stack, so I think that your concern about the Manabase is a little petty, considering that you’re going to have to Mage your crypt out anyway.

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It's less about the mana concerns, and much more about the needing to run four leylines, whereas I need to run one crypt, with three trinkets to find it. That opens up a lot more space for other cards not singularly beneficial to only a few specific matchups. Also, all of your benefits only apply if you manage to get leyline into your opening hand. Not impossible by any means, but obviously not guaranteed.

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Well, SDT > Dark Confidant, so if you ever have that happen, well… Sorry? I’ve played with Confi and TS in decks without SDT, and it happens like once every 983450893 games. Seriously, it’s almost a non-issue without top and it shouldn’t be a problem in the least with top.

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We run only two SDTs. There's no guarantee we're going to hit one, just as there's no guaranteed that we're going to hit TS with confidant. But it happens. Even if you only hit TS with confidant once in an entire tournament, its going to essentially lose you the game you draw it. I don't like having my deck lose the game for me, even if it's only one game in several.

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Fine then, play Infest, Dry Spell, or freaking Hideous Laughter if you don’t like E. Plague and/or have problems with non goblin agro and non EtW token swarms. Or E. Truth. Seriously, it’s not like E. Plague is bad, it’s a metagame card, just like everything else in the SB most likely is.

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I'm not saying it's a bad card. I'm saying we don't need it. We rock combo pretty hard as it is, and we really don't need to shore up the match up anymore. Yea, you bring in E.Plague against Gobbos too, but I mostly see myself playing this against ETW decks, where I already have an advantage and don't need any more. If I'm going to spend sideboard space shoring up matchups, I want cards that help problem matchups, not ones I'm already doing well in.

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Extirpate also hoses Threshold, other control, Ichorid, is strong against the Mirror (last I heard, Dreadstill isn’t that hot without the FoWs) and is just generally good against a large number of decks outside Agro.

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I never said it was good against agro, I said it was good against combo, but I see your point here. Extripate is a wonderfull card. I just think that it falls short when compared to the options offered by other colors, namely green.

Oh hey, ya know whats really good in the mirror match? Kgrip. Just sayin...

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A) I really don’t think that either landstill or MUC gives a fuck about standstill. Just my two cents.

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Pretty sure there's a few decks out there that don't give a fuck about Confidant too. Just for the record.

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B) If you seriously are that worried about the interaction, I don’t know what to say. I mean, the curve of the deck is like, 1.2. You’re not going to take that much damage, and if you’re still going to bawl about the one in 1000 chance of hitting a TS off of a blind Confidant reveal, I don’t know what to say.

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I do. You should say "If you're that worried about sucking eight damage off of an easily avoided interaction between two cards in your maindeck, you shouldn't play the black splash". There ya go. I'll go ahead and take that advice now.

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C) Having more proactive solutions and the same amount of reactive answers (in the Ub version, not the Ubw version, that’s fine just fine with your laundry list of enchantments and whatnot), alongside with more draw to keep fully stocked, I think I’ll be just as well off (although of one of those resolves, outside Humility, I can just play TS and beat through like normal if need be. 3 sphere would certainly be annoying, but it doesn‘t hinder my secondary win condition as ridiculously as it does my primary).

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Unless you have TS in your hand when the 3sphere hits the board, I really don't see you digging for it with three-mana brainstorms, Standstills and Confidants. Or at least not digging for it fast enough to matter. In the black-splash only version of this deck, you simply do not have enough outs to well played permanent solutions. Despite your proactive thoughtseizes, you can't do anything against your opponent ripping one of those cards off the top, or brainstorming to hide said card, or tutoring, ect.

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Don’t play 3c in a Dstompy metagame. That’s true of about 90% of 3c decks. Bawww, you don’t have as many basic Islands. Against everything but Dragon Stompy that’s a pretty much irrelevant point.

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You don't have any dragonstompy in your meta? :confused: And besides this, there are other decks where that's a serious concern. Against Geddonstax they can rail you with a Crucible if you're not careful enough to have some basics main. Or if you have no artifact or enchantment disruption. Or both. Actually, against just about anything with a dedicated mana denial strategy, you really want the basics.

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Hove fun taking my TS with Threads over there.

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Ok, so you get the novelty of having your secondary win condition not be removed by threads, while I have the ability to deal with threads, as well as the rest of my laundry list, using Kgrip. I think I'll take that tradeoff.

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Please enlighten me. How does the black splash reactively stop 3sphere or Humility or Counterbalance, or any other artifact or enchantment. Please don't say Oring, because again, it's my understanding you're not playing white. Remember?

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Hove fun taking my TS with Threads over there. Also, I think the Ubw lists are > the Ub lists because of the stronger removal options and multiple outs to artifacts and enchantments. Better now?

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Thats really not a response to the statement I made. And you have the exact same response to a different statement earlier. I'm assuming this was a copy mistake, but I do appreciate that you can see you need removal options for artifacts and enchantments. Thats what I've been trying to get at this whole time.

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Placings:

Mono U- 4
UB- 3
UG- 10
UR- 4
UGR- 5
UW- 5

Seems like UG has been preforming the best due to Goyf most likely. UGR and UW seem be doing second best to it and UB seems to be the most underpowered.

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*Cough*

I'll admit that it is likely that the black version is more underplayed that it is underpowered, but that doesn't stop it from having less wins that then green splash, or the green/red splash.

But, as you said:

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At any rate, I presume we’ve come to a point where it’s time to agree to disagree.

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Wonderful. I agree.

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Originally Posted by thefreakaccident

For that, I give Kudos... I just want some recognition is all :) .

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Asking for recognition for an archetype is usually pointless since everyone fights over development originality. It's not like everyone of us thought of a blue Stifle Nought deck when we heard of his errata. The thing is you get your deck rep by winning with it. These guys have placed tons of top eights with the deck and that's why I take what they say about it more seriously.

Needless to say people that win large scale tournaments with bazaar list changes can't be dismissed either. Just the combo itself is devestating enough to win games all the time.

I've been messing around with white splash Dreadstill and this is what I came up with.

// Lands
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
5 [BD] Island (3)
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [B] Tundra
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
3 [REW] Wasteland

// Creatures
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [CS] Counterbalance
2 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [NE] Daze
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt

Testing it's been really solid I'm beginning to like this splash more and more.

Is there really a need for Trickbinds? Uncounterable Dreadnought combo is good (since nobody counters the Nought), but what other situations are they good for?

I'm running a full set of Oblivion Rings in the MD of a white splash. It's a fine answer to almost everything, freeing up lots of SB space.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kicks_422

Is there really a need for Trickbinds? Uncounterable Dreadnought combo is good (since nobody counters the Nought), but what other situations are they good for?

I'm running a full set of Oblivion Rings in the MD of a white splash. It's a fine answer to almost everything, freeing up lots of SB space.

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I have found that you need the trickbinds in the deck, without them you find a lot of hands were you have a nought but no stifle affect. also like I say with every blue card: if you don't need it pitch it to FOW.

@Rodney have you playtested the white splash version with the Enlightened Tutor? also Craig wants his noughts back lol (he wants to sell his stuff).

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Originally Posted by kicks_422

Is there really a need for Trickbinds? Uncounterable Dreadnought combo is good (since nobody counters the Nought), but what other situations are they good for?

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Stopping Deed, Explosives, or Belcher activations backed up by counters/REB?

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Originally Posted by Maagler

also Craig wants his noughts back lol (he wants to sell his stuff).

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Holy shit, I think I just died laughing.

Well Rood, it looks like your shelling out some moneys. Those Noughts have won you like 1,000 dollars at least, I think it's fair to shell out like 50 for em'.

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Originally Posted by kicks_422

Is there really a need for Trickbinds? Uncounterable Dreadnought combo is good (since nobody counters the Nought), but what other situations are they good for?

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You want to know how good Trickbind is? Ask TrialbyFire, he knows what 6 Stifle effects + 3 Wastelands can do to red thresh.

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Originally Posted by Maagler

also Craig wants his noughts back lol (he wants to sell his stuff).

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Roob beat me too it, but this is the funniest news I've heard in while. Go Craig, way to potentially cause Rodney to shed a tear or two.

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Originally Posted by HammafistRoob

You want to know how good Trickbind is? Ask TrialbyFire, he knows what 6 Stifle effects + 3 Wastelands can do to red thresh.

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You had to go and bring that up didn't you Rob :rolleyes: That was an epic game though.
Trickbind is the real deal. I am actually trying to fit one into Thresh as a 5th Stifle. Its that good.

I think it's best to hear from people who play the deck a ton and have tried both the UW and the UG versions?

So I pose the question to you guys...

Answer only if you played both versions, can you say that one splash (UG vs. UW) is definately superior to the other, or is it a toss up?

If one splash is superior, which one and why?

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Originally Posted by Clark Kant

I think it's best to hear from people who play the deck a ton and have tried both the UW and the UG versions?

So I pose the question to you guys...

Answer only if you played both versions, can you say that one splash (UG vs. UW) is definately superior to the other, or is it a toss up?

If one splash is superior, which one and why?

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I Honestly have to say they both have there merits, it really is a meta call, If you are in a heavy thresh and stax meta, green is the way to go because grip is just so good. Otherwise O-Ring is really good, but it dies to the same hate that the rest of the deck is effected by... so you can't count on it to deal with goyfs, CB's, etc since they are bringing in Grips, etc and will be able to get their stuff back where Grip and your own goyfs tend to be more permenant answers.

As long as you have your core intact (4x Dreadnought, 4x FoW, 4x Brainstorm, 4x Standstill) whatever splash you choose doesn't necessarily mean it's stronger or weaker then the next, they are All good.

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Originally Posted by Roodmistah

As long as you have your core intact (4x Dreadnought, 4x FoW, 4x Brainstorm, 4x Standstill, and 4x Stifle) ...

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Fixed ;)

Well I represented Dreadstill this past weekend at Off the Wall Games. I had to work on getting the Mox with a gimp deck though. I brought 4 people with me and helped build 5 decks before the tournament. In doing so I registered the deck without Standstill and with Force of Will. But lacked the hard copy of Force in the real deck and had Standstill in it's place. I realized this after a rough loss to Dragon Stompy round one.

Kevin had me change my deck to the registered version with FOW. So... Here's my Not Quite Dreadstill report.

Round One. insertnamehere playing Dragon Stompy.
He has explosive starts all three games. Game one ends the quickest. Im mana screwed and he land's a Trinisphere. Game two I drop a Dreadnought. Win. Game three we have a close game that he wins.

I feel like I never saw Force and feel wierd about it. I look through my deck and realize its not there. Kevin has me change my deck and Im now in the 0-1 bracket. =( not good.

Round two Ichorid

Game one I he has a real slow roll. I'm not sure if this was on purpose or not but the game went on for a while. I lose after his 5-6th turn. I land Trinket Mage and get sad that I maindecked a Needle over Crypt.

Game two I get double crypts. He goes all in with a Breakthrough and puts everything in the graveyard and discards his hand. I crypt him and win obviously. I dont know why he made a play like that. I would've taken some draw phases for a Needle.

Game three he plays a PImp turn one after mulling to 5. I Force it and he's pretty much done there. I waste his land and pass the turn. He plays another land and a needle naming crypt. I dont have any. I do have a Dreadnought and a Stifle for my turn 3. He scoops.

Round 3 I might be confusing my round two and three matches. The seats were one apart.
Deadguy.

He Thoughtsiezes me, takes Stifle, Extirpates it. Leaves me with Daze and Nought. I get Countertop up and Trickbind a Nought for the win. I think? Or was it double goyf win? Well game two was the other beastly finish. Also a Counterbalance blowout.

Round 4
Loam g/w
I dont remember too much from this matchup. He never plays loam much because he's not playing red and he can't Gamble or wish for loam. And he doesnt have Assault for a finisher. So he relies on clunky dudes and Garruk.

I think he took game 2 to late game Genesis recrusion. Game three he plays Wildmongrel and I needle mongrel and take like 6 from it while Counterbalancing things. He plays another that I let resolve and Threads of Disloyalty. He drops a Goyf and I play Explosives and blow it for two. I get to kill a garruk in combat and counter another. I win shortly after with I think Nought?

Round 5 Syracuse playing Dragon Stompy.
Revenge! This time I have force of will and it shows. I believe game one is a blowout and I die to Magus of the Moon and Gathan.

Game two I Stifle his Chrome Mox imprint even though I have a Dreadnought in hand.. I just had a feeling the deck is fragile enough for this to win me the game. It does... His only land is City of Traitors. On his turn two he plays a Mountain without tapping the city and curses himself passing the turn. I win with Goyfs.

Game three he plays a Chalice for two I spell Snare. (play it at 2 dude) He plays a morph guy and beats me with it. He plays a seething song and I daze it since I suspect the purple people eater. He beats for 3. He plays another one next turn and takes the mana burn to get hellbent. Leaving himself at 11. I essemble Dreadnought and it eats him alive because he had no Ingot Chewers or Shattering Sprees.

Round 6
Rich Meyst Survival
Both Games he rips my hand apart with Birds of Paridise -> Therapy and Thoughtseizes. Then plays Survival for goyfs till I die. I offer no resistance either game. Solid gameplan against this deck.


Im 4-2 and I dont make it in. I think we would've if he drew though..

I come in 10th without the Standstills. None of my loses were due to the lack of this card. My own Factories were still nice but excessive as a four of.

Heres my list.

3 Trop
1 Breeding Pool (key!)
3 Strand
4 delta
3 island
4 wasteland
4 factorie


3 goyf
3 trinket
4 nought

2 trickbind
4 stifle
3 spellsnare
4 bs
4 fow
3 daze
3 cb
1 explosives
1 needle
3 top

sb
4 crypt
3 grip
1 submerge
2 chill
2 needle
3 threads

I love this build. I could care less about the lack of Standstill. quite honestly I think it slows the deck down too much. I like the mana crippling aspect and fast finish playstyle of the deck much more. I would up the count of goyfs and explosives. Using ee to clear Chalice and Mox is golden.

Your build abuses Standstill your point for being able to win fast with your build doesn't really argue the fact it would just be -better- with Standstill. You can still win fast with the deck I am sure if you had Standstills against Survival you would have won, that card eats that deck alive. There are way too many matchups Standstill will win for you, I could never see a reason for cutting it. I've also been running two EEs main now for a long time over Needle~I made that change a long time ago. Also if I were going to not run Standstills there's no way in hell I'd be running Factories.

And at that point I think you're just playing Dreaded Fish.

@Roodmistah & others :

Thoughts on inclusion of Crucible of Worlds?

2 builds from this tournament faired well playing the traditional Landstill card MD.

LCL Badalona 06/08
- Source: Team Pataners
- Date: 21. Jun 2008
- Place: 1st
- Participants: 76

Ug Dreadstill by Alex Delgado

3 Trinket Mage
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Phyrexian Dreadnought

4 stifle
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Brainstorm
2 Trickbind

2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Counterbalance
4 Standstill

1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives

4 Wasteland
1 Tropical Island
3 Polluted Delta
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Island
3 Flooded Strand
1 Academy Ruins

Beginning to like CoW more and more, though I've never tested it personally it seems solid and alot of players are putting up good results with it.

I've ran Crucible, Worship and Shackles all as 1 ofs for a while to test.

And I've almost never regretted drawing Crucible, only rarely regretted drawing Shackles, and regretted drawing Worship roughly half the time.

Yeah Roodmistah and I have been talking about cutting a Daze and something (probably a land) for 2 Crucibles.

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Originally Posted by JanValentine00

Yeah Roodmistah and I have been talking about cutting a Daze and something (probably a land) for 2 Crucibles.

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Why would you cut a land for a card that costs 3 mana and likes you having lands? It just doesn't make sense to me.

21 lands is hands down the right call for this deck, end of story.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HammafistRoob

Why would you cut a land for a card that costs 3 mana and likes you having lands? It just doesn't make sense to me.

21 lands is hands down the right call for this deck, end of story.

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Because Crucible allows you to replay fetches which nets you lands and therefore makes up for lack of the 21st land. Also with 4 Standstill, 4 Brainstorm, and 20 lands you really wont have any issue getting to 3 lands to play crucible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HammafistRoob

Why would you cut a land for a card that costs 3 mana and likes you having lands? It just doesn't make sense to me.

21 lands is hands down the right call for this deck, end of story.

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Well when your deck has a two turn clock why design it to go to the late game? There is no overwhelming synergy between the Dreadnought combo and Standstill. The enchantment is just great in blue decks so it's a nice call. I for one, feel Daze, Counterbalance, Spell Snare, and Daze are enough help from what blue has to offer us.

I don't feel Standstill would've won me the game against Survival since the 6-8 hand destruction spells he plays can easily tear it away before you land it. That and the very high volume of early drop creatures they play.

If the deck has any bad matchups I believe them to be Survival and Ichorid. I felt I was lucky against my opponent in the tournament since I saw alot of my crypts and FoW's. In playtesting it was bad enough to encourage my choice of Cryptx4.

In regards to 22 land. I really like to play 4 Stifle, 2 Trick, 4 Wastelands. I'm running 22 land and I'm happy with it. It's easy to Brainstorm and Top land away.

So, after testing Crucible I found the card to be a bit too clunky. In several Matchups it is helpful though, so that I placed two copies of them in my Sideboard (against massive Landdestruction and/or Controldecks).

This is my list:

4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
5 Island

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Tarmogoyf

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Standstill
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
3 Spell Snare
2 Trickbind

3 Krosan Grip
3 Back to Basics
4 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Chill
2 Crucible

In my testings were the lack of T.Mages never a problem although I may want him in the side...and I need Ichorid Hate. What is the most common choice here? Crypt?
Maybe I'm going to test this Sideboard as it actually looks better than mine imo:

3 Krosan Grip
4 Propaganda
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Crucible

Let me hear your thoughts.

I understand your point about Trinket Mage being kinda meh... But the deck really needs the Explosives as they are the decks only removal.

ok, so this is the deck that I have been testing recently. After lots of testing of the red splash i found that the trinket mages were underwhelming. I found that the white splash offered (in my opinion) a more powerful card in place of trinket mage: enlightened tutor.

The list I am using is heavily based off Fabio Ivona's who placed high in two smaller tourneys. http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=16885

The list:

// Lands
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [MR] Island (4)
3 [TE] Wasteland
2 [B] Tundra
1 [B] Volcanic Island

// Creatures
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought

// Spells
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [OD] Standstill
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [CS] Counterbalance
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
2 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
1 [LOR] Hoofprint of the Stag
1 [LOR] Oblivion Ring

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [LOR] Hoofprint of the Stag
SB: 3 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [IA] Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
SB: 3 [PS] Meddling Mage

anyways please test it it is doing very well for me online.





100th post w00t.... would like to thank the academy...

The whole highlanderish with 4 Tutors is interesting.

I only see two problems, you should be playing more Oblivion Ring. And there's no reason to cut to 3 Standstill. Perhaps cut a Daze and a Trickbind to add an Oblivion Ring and Standstill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joon

In my testings were the lack of T.Mages never a problem although I may want him in the side...and I need Ichorid Hate. What is the most common choice here? Crypt?

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Yeah Crypt, also remember you can drop a nought and not stifle to remove bridges or animate a factory and waste it. Echoing Truth and E.E. are also very good against Zombie tokens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clark Kant

The whole highlanderish with 4 Tutors is interesting.

I only see two problems, you should be playing more Oblivion Ring. And there's no reason to cut to 3 Standstill. Perhaps cut a Daze and a Trickbind to add an Oblivion Ring and Standstill.

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Agreed, run 4 standstills, and either add an extra ring or an extra E.E.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J.V.

I understand your point about Trinket Mage being kinda meh... But the deck really needs the Explosives as they are the decks only removal.

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I understand your point about removal, but what would you cut from my list for 2 Mages/1 EE or 2 EE's? I just can't find any room for it :frown:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joon

I understand your point about removal, but what would you cut from my list for 2 Mages/1 EE or 2 EE's? I just can't find any room for it :frown:

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From your List I would do this:
-1 Wasteland
-1 Daze
-1 Trickbind
+2 Trinket Mage
+1 Engineered Explosives

I really like this deck ever since it was created in that contest. I recently took it to legacy turney and I won with it. It was 14 person turney witch is i know not a big turney for your standards but it is a normal thing in my country as we are very small. :)
Like i said our legacy turneys do not get a lot bigger than that and we have one a month or even one in two months. So please do not judge to fast based on number of people that played. :)
for reference i played this list:
creature
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Trinket Mage
instant
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
2 Trickbind
enchantment
3 Counterbalance
4 Standstill
artifact
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Sensei's Divining Top
land
3 Flooded Strand
5 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
3 Wasteland

SB:
4 Gofy
3 Krosan Grip
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pithing Needle
2 Mind harness
1 Echoing Truth
1 Gaea's Blessing

Round 1
RBG agro discard
I went ot was 1-1 as we ran out of time. I would have won the second game too but he Cabal therapy-ed me in his first turn naming force. He saw my hand with island, tropical, 2x goyfs, fatch and other stuff. Second turn he casted mog fanatic and flashbacked terapy took my gofys away. sad sad story. :(

Round two
Mono Red Burn
No problems here. :)
First game fast Dreadnought and second game slow one after fast counter&top.

Round three
Realy good player (playing for a lot of years) with two land Belcher
i won firs game after fast Dreadnought and stifling his shattering spree that he wished for countering first copy with balance. :)
And second game he went duress first turn i forced and second turn i went needle on belcher. :) He did play Empty the Warrens but i have 6 stifles main. :)

Round 4
Painter combo.
Damm i wanted to play this deck but was i heard of it too late and i will now not spend soo much money for it. Well i won 1-0 as we played one game for hole 2 rounds time as he didi not surrender after i locked him with counteTop and Styfle+trikbind constantly on top. :)

I went top 4
Another Painter with good player. :) it was UB painter with thouthseizes and bobs.
First game i won with fast nought. Second He won with fast nought. Third he got the combo dow i thought he won but i had Gaea's Blessing in deck. Before he found an anwser i had nought down. :)

I was in finale
Really good player with realy good Survival of the Fittest.deck
I won first game with fast nought. Second he broke three! standstills in few turns at beginning and i had it all. stifle force needle crypt and nought.
he managed to put in to play spore frog after he sacrifised to save his ass i crypt it away then trickbinded survival and he realised that he can not use it this turn any more. He surrendered.
I got tropical island at the end. :)

I really like this deck but i thing it needs one or two more lands. How to make a room for them? Any sugesstions? And i realy think wastelands do not need to be in this deck. and yea stifle is the best card in legacy. :) i wish i could play more of them. :)