What happened to jund?
What killed it? Miracles?
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What happened to jund?
What killed it? Miracles?
This build kills Miracles decently well:
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 2 Tsunami
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Thoughtseize
4 Punishing Fire
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Bayou
1 Taiga
3 Badlands
3 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Swamp
3 Sylvan Library
3 Hymn to Tourach
Problem is, most of the BGx decks fall behind because discard is, as before, not good against Dig and our manipulation is worse. Sylvan allows us to *almost* keep up. Omni is REALLY fast, and depending on their hands, our hate doesn't work.
-Matt
Makes sense, is any non blue disruption fast enough though? Hate bears and counters seem to be about it, which is sad.
In all honesty, it seems like it isn't. There have been times I get a Thoughtseize countered (or they have Leyline), I get SnT with Grip open to get them, but they have Emrakul instead. Frustrating, to say the least.
-Matt
With the presence of combo I might try running an Underground Sea and a set of Swan Songs in the board. Hitting from two angles (discard plus permission) is pretty effective. We could run Flusterstorm too...and brainstorm :P
aaaannnnnnd then we're playing Shardless ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissection
Well I wouldn't run Swan Song or Flusterstorm in Shardless...but yeah, that was the gist of my joke :)Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Hate_Counterspells
I don't think Swan Song should be ignored though, it could be quite effective. Most Omni decks have dropped the leylines (which I agree with from their pov), but some still run them and if it sticks we're pretty much racing our creatures vs their combo. I don't fancy those chances.
Miracles was never a problem and still is manageable albeit more challenging due to the introduction of Dig Through Time and Council's Judgment.Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
What happened, though, is a.) Shardless BUG, which is pretty much a Jund+, b.) Dig Through Time weakened discard strategies significantly and c.) Combo is still a problem, d.) Unlike Shardless BUG, Jund is not a Blue deck, which means no cantrips and counterspells are available, which is a huge downside.
As for the blue splash, holding counterspells does not work with Liliana of the Veil and Pyroblast takes care of the most things we would want to counter anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lavafrogg
In my experience, this deck has one of the best Miracles matchups of any deck in Legacy. My tournament record against it was 7-1 and I played arguably the worst magic of my life in the one match loss. Bloodbraid Elf and Sylvan Libary are amazing in the matchup. Board out discard for Grip, Deed, etc. as discard is mediocre against a deck that plays off the top of its library with Top. Don't splash blue, Pyroblast is just fine against Omni and Dig Through Time decks in general. Chains is also pretty solid against mass cantrips (as well as Miracles).Quote:
Originally Posted by DOM
I've been moving to modern for the last months, also playing jund there, but i sleeved up my legacy jund yesterday in a meta that normally is horribly infested with combo.
I went 4-2 - which IMO should have been 6-0 :p
3 Badlands
3 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Bloodbraid Elf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Punishing Fire
1 Sylvan Library
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
Sideboard:
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Choke
2 Duress
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
3 Pyroblast
2 Slaughter Games
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Toxic Deluge
G1 i meet Painter. I had my basics all the time and very nice Bobs, discard and large goyfs. 2-0
G2 against MUD. G1 i discard his relevant spells, fast bob and goyf again. Liliana took care of Lodestones. G2 I get him to 2 life with lily , bob and goyf on board. He sweeps it all with Ugin. And loads up on dudes. G3 i never see other lands than my starting fetch and waste :( 1-2
G3 Merfolk. Im thrilled to play this deck as its one of the best matchups. However he lands triple truename and forces my Liliana and toxic.. sooo. Think i won the second game easily. Same loss in third game.. WTF 1-2..
G4 Merfolk. This time it went as it should and i discard vials, have p.fire engine running and choke him. 2-0
G5 RUG. I play tight with my mana and nukes delver and mongoose with toxic for 3 after discarding his counter. G2 he cant remove my goyf or something and i remove his small threats. 2-0
G6 D&T. He mulls a few times and tries to mana screw me but i have all the lands in the world with bob flips and win with good stuff. Same with G2.
All in all im happy with my plays, however sad that I was so close with MUD. And I will never forgot losing to merfolk...
I still contend that a medium to decent merfolk draw can basically kick us in the nuts. Also, I have been having decent results locally with pyroblast and duress out of the board for omnitell. I have always stood by a 1-of choke in the board, and I think I only ever lost 1 game after resolving it vs miracles. In the 1 game I beat Joe Lossett in my lifetime, it was because of Choke. I still stand by it, especially in today's hyper blue metagame.
Merfolk chalice builds have a stronger chance of beating us, but still falter to our removal. Jund might have to adapt like it did during the TC era and MD pyroblasts. I like choke but my meta is more BUG heavy so all it does for me is buy a turn or it eats an abrupt decay on the spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
Yeah, in a bug meta I think you want Pyroblast 3 rather than Choke. I can never seem to get away from damn Miracle-whip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke is Good
Just overload removals, then Merfolks fold. Merfolks have no reliable way to link TNN with jitte.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuke is Good
Played a local yesterday and went horrible, haha, 0-4. Maybe it's because I'm playing hearthstone too much these days.
Went to the same list I posted a few pages back which got me a 4-1, which has Courser of Kruphix, TS+IoKs, Kholaghan's Command and Tombstalker, except this time I changed for Tasigur.
I got Junk, Death and taxes, Elves and Burn. I won't detail much, I pretty much played very messy.
However I did use Kholaghans a few times and it's an exceptional card. I managed to kill Mom and batterskull in the same strike at one time, and kill an elf and discard elves only card in hand at another. I think it's a sticker!
Hi there
I think i will play jund in GP Lille and now i'm working on a list for that event. there will be one more big event before the gp where i plan to play it as well to see if i have to change anything else.
my list right now looks like
4 verdant catacombs
3 wasteland
4 grove of the burnwillow
3 badlands
2 bayou
2 swamp
1 forest
2 wooded foothills
2 bloodstained mire
3 bloodbraid elf
4 tarmogoyf
4 dark confidant
4 deathrite
4 liliana
3 hymn
4 thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
3 punishing fire
3 lightning bolt
1 sylvan libary
SB
4 Red blast
2 chains of mephistoles
1 duress
1 enginereed plague
1 golgari charm
1 kolaghans command
1 surgical extraction
2 grafdiggers cage
1 pithing needle
1 scavenging ooze
i will test later today the postboard games vs omnitell. i think it is in our favour. i still think my sb is not optimal. i have no idea how good kolaghans command is, i run it in the slot where i used ancient grudge before. it can be used to kill eqipments or vials as well as the creatures these decks play so its more flexible. also unsure about 4 red blasts. other than mono blue combo decks or merfolk i never bring in 4, most of the time 3. also the grave hate. could it be better to just run more surgicals, because they are also good vs combo with that much discard, but then i have no cages vs elves. about the mb how much hymn to tourach is the best number? i expect a lot of miracles and omnitell so i thought 3 might be enough. in that case maybe only 3 burnwillows and one more black dual to cast the bb spells early against combo decks.
i havent played jund for some months now, especially after the tc ban so i dont know all the matchups. how is it vs shardless bug and grixis control variants? a fair grindy game or does dig through time let them win more often? i played omnitell the last 6 months but i dont want to play it now since everyone knows it and will have plans against it.
Hi, what happened to those SB games against Omniitell? I would be greatly interested in your findings, since I am testing Jund for Lille as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dємigød
the testing with that SB above went not the way i thought it would do. seems like packing 4 red blasts doesnt stop omnitell but weakens the SB vs other decks. for now i will play 4 surgical extractions and hope to cut them of one of their combo pieces or dig through time. i also changed one bolt for an inqiisition of kozilek in the mb (maybe duress is better?). so my plan vs omni after sb is to discard and then disrupt with extraction. it works finde even if you dont hit a combo piece. when you play thoughtseize and they respond with a brainstorm to hide the good cards you take whatever is the best card you can see (dig, wish, another brainstorm) then surgical that to shuffle their deck, so their brainstorm already weakend their hand. having 4 surgicals in SB is also a good effect to have vs reanimator and dredge. chains of mephistoles can be very backbreaking to omnitell, BUT only if played after all the discard. when you drop it to early they can play around it long enough to find the kill, but when it comes down after a thoughtseize and a hymn it can push them to a point where they have to find a dig or they loose (and that dig better finds them the combo and not more cantrips^^). i bring the golgari charm in there as well. if they are the red splash variant it can kill yp and also can kill omniscience. this happens more often then you might think, because they usually dont have a lot of cards left in hand when they go of. if they manage to drop that omniscience and have only 1 card left in hand (wish, dig) just destroy omni in response and they are dead. a similar situation (you have to know their hand for this) is to tap out, then they will cast show and tell. you drop a red land with pyroblast in hand. they drop omni and you can kill it. here it is important to know when to do this because they could also drop emmi and that would be bad in that case.
my SB right now looks like
4 surgical
1 duress
1 toxic deluge
1 golgari charm
1 grafdiggers cage
2 chains of mephistoles
2 pyroblast
1 kolaghans command
1 dark blast (could also be another golgari charm, have to see how it performs vs elves)
1 null rod
tomorrow i will play a tournament with that list and see how it goes. from my testing i can say that grixis delver is a good matchup, storm and omnitell are winable but you have to take mulligans if you dont have a discard heavy hand. miracles is ok and dnt is easy if you dont let them mana screw you. sadly noone in my playgroup had a lands or elves deck so i dont know how the matchups looks there.
I'm no Jund-player, but in RGB colors, wouldn't you consider Slaughtergames and Choke in regards of Omnitell? Choke will also hit the other 90% of isle-running-decks, and Slaughtergames can pull some serious weight in the Miracles-matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dємigød
I've been playing Jund for several years. This is my SB:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingo
1 Engineered Plague
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Krosan Grip
2 Duress
1 Boil
3 Choke
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Golgari Charm
Choke is incredibly powerful.