[Deck] bUrg Tempo

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

If you look at the manabase there are three Tropical Islands, and it will often be the land you lead on turn one. Badlands provides the other two colours to cast either Abrupt Decay or Lightning Bolt on turn two. You don't fetch it up that often, but there are enough situations where you want it to go alongside a Trop to warrant the inclusion.

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Actually he doesn't. He play 3 Underground Sea, 2 Tropical Island, 1 Volcanic Island and 1 Badlands. The Badlands replaced a Volcanic Island in its initial 75.
I think it is easier to cast Leovold with this manabase because is really hard to cast him in our deck. I have myself tested Badlands and Taiga during a very long time and my prefered non-blue duals was actually Badlands, but with his version with 3 TNN, I don't like putting Leovold in my main and weaken my manabase for him.

Between I won a small event with this Decklist yesterday.

3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
8 U-Fetches
4 Wasteland

4 Delver, 4 Shaman, 3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Snap, 2 Gurmag

4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder
4 Force of Will, 4 Daze, 3 Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt, 3 Decay

Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction, 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Dismember, 1 Painful Truth
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle, 2 Jitte
1 Sulfur Elemental

I did 3-0 to a small event, playing again Grixis Green Delver, Pur Grixis Delver (meh?) and Infect.

It is a small change from the last version I played (-1 Snap, +1 TNN) and it is real that this small change felt incredibly good. I wanted to test 3 Thoughtseize maindeck, but didn't have the card on me.
I test a little bit Leovold, but I don't have much time to playtest sadly. So I have to really playtest it with the Friedmann version in order make me my own idea to this version and how Leovold is doing well with me. I fear that is only a trend/hype and that he is not that good has he should be in our deck. What do you think of Leovold in BUrg? And bUrg?

I'm looking forward to go on with 3 TNN in a Fatal Push meta, hopping it will not be that hard for Delver Deck, but I might change for a more controllish/Midrange of the version if we loose to hard to deck playing Fatal Push w/wo Snapcaster Mage.
For 4c Delver, I don't know exactly how many FP I'll play. Between 0 to 3 in my 75. Beginning with 3 (1 main, 2 SB), in order to test it and might end with 0-2. But it is only speculation. There is some people out there already testing the card? Do they want share their early conclusions?

I stand corrected! Maybe one of his older lists had 3 Trops, I'm losing my mind or am thinking of another deck entirely!


Congrats on the result, I like your list and I'll try it out online. I've only had Grixis Delver until I get Goyfs there, but can build this, 4c is much better imo and I much prefer playing it (it's what I play in paper usually).

So you're saying you'd replace all the Spell Pierces with TS? Or maybe 2 TS 1 Pierce split? I'm not sure on having so much discard in the MD.

I also think Leovold is just an incredibly powerful proactive card in general and is worth playing if the manabase can support it. He's obviously stronger in some decks than others, like Reids GP winning list, but I think he'd perform well here too. I may try one over the third TNN. I tried him as a 'fun-of' in 4c just after Conspiracy came out but I didn't draw him enough to see what he can do, his power is clear to everyone now though.

I agree with you on Push, it's really hard to tell until we try it. My feeling is it either replaces a bolt as a one-of in the MD if we're worried about Tarmogoyf, or none. Possibly 1 more in the SB, but we already play a huge amount of removal spells in 4c. It's really going to shine in BUG who don't have access to bolt. But since we already have Decay for goyfs, and I also think it's quite badly positioned at the moment, Push is only a SB card for us if we play it at all.

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

I stand corrected! Maybe one of his older lists had 3 Trops, I'm losing my mind or am thinking of another deck entirely!

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In the bUrG with 3-4 Goyf, Sylvan Library and other green stuff in the sideboard, it might be 3 Tropical Island. But it was really often 2/2/2 between the blue lands.

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

So you're saying you'd replace all the Spell Pierces with TS? Or maybe 2 TS 1 Pierce split? I'm not sure on having so much discard in the MD.

I also think Leovold is just an incredibly powerful proactive card in general and is worth playing if the manabase can support it. He's obviously stronger in some decks than others, like Reids GP winning list, but I think he'd perform well here too. I may try one over the third TNN. I tried him as a 'fun-of' in 4c just after Conspiracy came out but I didn't draw him enough to see what he can do, his power is clear to everyone now

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I wanted to try 3 Thoughtseize maindeck like in the time of Dig Through Time with the TNN version of the deck.
If you want to play Leovold in the deck, you should really look at the Ben Friedmann version of the deck because it is really what you want with Leovold.

Check the 4c Delver (4 copy in top 32) of GP Louisville: http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...sts-2017-01-08
Check the explanation of Ben Friedmann himself for more detail: http://www.gatheringmagic.com/benfri...-color-delver/
Older version of the deck with some videos: http://www.gatheringmagic.com/benfri...-color-delver/

It was already posted, but I think it is better if we have them all in the same post.

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Originally Posted by AfroSmile

In the bUrG with 3-4 Goyf, Sylvan Library and other green stuff in the sideboard, it might be 3 Tropical Island. But it was really often 2/2/2 between the blue lands.


I wanted to try 3 Thoughtseize maindeck like in the time of Dig Through Time with the TNN version of the deck.
If you want to play Leovold in the deck, you should really look at the Ben Friedmann version of the deck because it is really what you want with Leovold.

Check the 4c Delver (4 copy in top 32) of GP Louisville: http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/c...sts-2017-01-08
Check the explanation of Ben Friedmann himself for more detail: http://www.gatheringmagic.com/benfri...-color-delver/
Older version of the deck with some videos: http://www.gatheringmagic.com/benfri...-color-delver/

It was already posted, but I think it is better if we have them all in the same post.

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That could be it, I can't remember from where, but I played some list with 3 Trops recently. Ah well.

I do like TS with TNN, I'm just more worried about the setup vs Miracles where TS doesn't protect the fish at all.

I've seen Bens list, I read all his articles etc :) Thanks for the links though, I like the way 4c is evolving, I played it at GP Prague last year too (I think I came 100 and something?)

I just ran basically your maindeck through a league and went 4-1, losing to Miracles. I made a few mistakes, but the deck feels good! Here's the video if you want to check it out, just ignore the mull at the beginning, should have gone to 4, I thought I was on the draw! - https://www.twitch.tv/whitefaces/v/115637608

2-1 vs Miracles
2-1 vs Burn
1-2 vs Miracles
2-1 vs Aggro Loam
2-1 vs Aggro Loam (same guy, silly pairings)

This is the list:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Gurmag Angler

4 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize

4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Spell Pierce
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
4 Daze

3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
8 fetch

SB:
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Spell Pierce
1 Pithing Needle
1 Dismember
1 Murderous Cut
1 Null Rod
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Painful Truths
2 Pyroblast
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Darkblast

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

I've seen Bens list, I read all his articles etc :) Thanks for the links though, I like the way 4c is evolving, I played it at GP Prague last year too (I think I came 100 and something?)

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Nice result! I was there too, but I didn't make anything.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

I just ran basically your maindeck through a league and went 4-1, losing to Miracles. I made a few mistakes, but the deck feels good! Here's the video if you want to check it out, just ignore the mull at the beginning, should have gone to 4, I thought I was on the draw! - https://www.twitch.tv/whitefaces/v/115637608

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Insta follow! ;-) I'm looking forward seeing you playing.

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Originally Posted by AfroSmile

Nice result! I was there too, but I didn't make anything.


Insta follow! ;-) I'm looking forward seeing you playing.

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Nice, thanks! I just went through another league with the same list, 4-1 again beating BUG Delver (Hymn), Omnitell, Reid Dukes BUG TNN deck and Miracles, lost to painter (Blood Moon...)

Will keep trying things out, I already feel like I agree with you and want a 3rd TNN (almost able to get another one online, they're quite expensive). And with the 3rd play that 2nd Jitte you have too. But opposite to that, I feel like Null Rod is really underplayed, and especially good at the moment since lots of the Miracles decks are picking up multiple EEs to answer things like Needle etc, can't have 2 of each Rod and Jitte in the SB though :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

Nice, thanks! I just went through another league with the same list, 4-1 again beating BUG Delver (Hymn), Omnitell, Reid Dukes BUG TNN deck and Miracles, lost to painter (Blood Moon...)

Will keep trying things out, I already feel like I agree with you and want a 3rd TNN (almost able to get another one online, they're quite expensive). And with the 3rd play that 2nd Jitte you have too. But opposite to that, I feel like Null Rod is really underplayed, and especially good at the moment since lots of the Miracles decks are picking up multiple EEs to answer things like Needle etc, can't have 2 of each Rod and Jitte in the SB though :cool:

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GG! Nice results!
Yesterday I was at my house late and saw only your first Miracle and your Burn matches.
I'm looking forward to see the other matches.

In my goyf version of the deck, I played Null Rod too. Winter Orb was there too as a 2-of and it was in addition to 1-2 needle, it was really good against Miracle.
But right now I play 3 True-name Nemesis and it feels like a main deck answer to the deck. :tongue:
More seriously, your are true, that the deck may lack of Miracle matchup card. But I think it is ok.

If we look where Jitte is more important: All creature matchup -> D&T, Infect, Elves, Delvers, Maverick, etc.
And the Null Rod: All deck with important artifact: Miracle, Storm, D&T, MUD, 12-Post, Belcher, etc.
(I may forgotten a lot of deck or good deck, I'm writing on my smartphone in a hurry)
We have too look, which deck are really problematic and which one we really want to beat.
If we don't play Jitte, we may have trouble to have mass removal effect.

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Originally Posted by AfroSmile

GG! Nice results!
Yesterday I was at my house late and saw only your first Miracle and your Burn matches.
I'm looking forward to see the other matches.

In my goyf version of the deck, I played Null Rod too. Winter Orb was there too as a 2-of and it was in addition to 1-2 needle, it was really good against Miracle.
But right now I play 3 True-name Nemesis and it feels like a main deck answer to the deck. :tongue:
More seriously, your are true, that the deck may lack of Miracle matchup card. But I think it is ok.

If we look where Jitte is more important: All creature matchup -> D&T, Infect, Elves, Delvers, Maverick, etc.
And the Null Rod: All deck with important artifact: Miracle, Storm, D&T, MUD, 12-Post, Belcher, etc.
(I may forgotten a lot of deck or good deck, I'm writing on my smartphone in a hurry)
We have too look, which deck are really problematic and which one we really want to beat.
If we don't play Jitte, we may have trouble to have mass removal effect.

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I love Winter Orb too, but like you say it's better in Goyf versions not TNN because of the higher curve, definitely agree with that. It is kind of an answer for Top too though, to go with my point below.

I feel like I'm only losing games to Miracles when they have a SDT active in the late game, CB is answered with Decay, Entreat by Fluster/FoW, Jace with Pyroblast, Mentor by Jitte or keeping them on the backfoot and lists are playing it less than Entreat these days it seems etc. So I feel like we want at the very least two answers to Top, probably 3.

We already have a LOT of removal for creature matchups with Bolts, Decays and Snaps, I think I'll try without Jittes and 2 Null Rods. Jitte can be quite clunky since the only creature we're really equipping it to reliably is TNN too, though of course when you've got that going it's hard to lose. I think stopping EE vs Miracles and being harder to counter through CB outweighs the strength Needle has vs Lands, so 2 Rods 1 Needle. It's also brutal vs DnT, so we have enough good cards even with cutting the Jittes.

To make up for the lack of sweeper I'll try a Fire Covenant in the SB for things like Elves and Maverick etc.

People are playing a LOT of TNN at the moment, so we probably want a couple of answers for them. Make Obsolete or Marsh Casualties are the best options I think.

So something like

SB:

2 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Painful Truths
1 Fire Covenant
2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Make Obsolete
1 Marsh Casualties

So SBing vs Miracles would be

+2 Null Rod
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Painful Truths
+2 Pyroblast
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Invasive Surgery
+1 Sulfur Elemental
-4 Daze
-4 Lightning Bolt
-2 Wasteland

Not sure on cutting all bolts vs Miracles though, maybe keep one over a FoW.

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

This is the list:

4 Delver of Secrets
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Gurmag Angler

4 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize

4 Brainstorm
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Spell Pierce
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
4 Daze

3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
8 fetch

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This list, cut the red (4 bolt en 2 Volc) , and them ad 1 Underground and 1 Trop and 4 Fatal Pushes.

fixed the mana problems and 4 bolt or 4 fatal push are pretty much the same. (not excactly, i know, but bolt is stronger in the Young Pyro/Cabal/Probe built in this build not so much)

This is how i think the deck should be, my new love.

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Originally Posted by sanderanders

This list, cut the red (4 bolt en 2 Volc) , and them add 1 Underground and 1 Trop and 4 Fatal Pushes.

fixed the mana problems and 4 bolt or 4 fatal push are pretty much the same. (not excactly, i know, but bolt is stronger in the Young Pyro/Cabal/Probe built in this build not so much)

This is how i think the deck should be, my new love.

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I've been thinking about this, I'll definitely try it when Fatal Push comes online, but not sure it's better. Losing Pyroblast is pretty big, it's the main reason to play red imo. I think I'm going to replace a Gurmag with something else too, the deck uses DRS very heavily, and with Snaps too I've had some awkward draws with both. I'll put a third TNN for now, but ideally it would be a 2 drop that isn't dependent on the GY, any suggestions?

'Four colour BUG' :laugh:

4 DRS
4 Delver
2 Snap
3 TNN
1 Leovold
1 Gurmag

4 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize

4 BS
3 Push
4 Decay
4 Daze
4 FoW
1 Spell Pierce

9 fetch
3 Sea
3 Trop
4 Waste

I played the above list in another league last night for anyone interested, but was playing horribly for some reason and went 2-3. VS Miracles 3 times, won two and lost a third when G3 I had to mull to 5 and got run over by Jace and Entreat. DnT is where I really messed up, G3 I missed there was no fetch in the gy so Pondered instead of bolting a Mother of Runes thinking I could do both so had to eventually burn a bolt and decay on it as well as take 10-15 dmg from a Batterskull. The game went for about 30 turns and I went through all 4 flickerwisps, every recruiter and CJ on Null rods etc but after the dust settled I had a TNN, him Germ with Skull and Jitte with 1 counter, he drew Sword of Fire and Ice for lethal. My next card was Brainstorm into Snapcaster and Decay :frown: Also lost vs Storm, mulled to 5 g3 and got destroyed by a t1 Dark Confidant.

Here is a nice moment from one of the Miracles matches, grinding through his whole deck! http://imgur.com/a/41zpR

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

I've been thinking about this, I'll definitely try it when Fatal Push comes online, but not sure it's better. Losing Pyroblast is pretty big, it's the main reason to play red imo. I think I'm going to replace a Gurmag with something else too, the deck uses DRS very heavily, and with Snaps too I've had some awkward draws with both. I'll put a third TNN for now, but ideally it would be a 2 drop that isn't dependent on the GY, any suggestions?

'Four colour BUG' :laugh:

4 DRS
4 Delver
2 Snap
3 TNN
1 Leovold
1 Gurmag

4 Ponder
2 Thoughtseize

4 BS
3 Push
4 Decay
4 Daze
4 FoW
1 Spell Pierce

9 fetch
3 Sea
3 Trop
4 Waste

I played the above list in another league last night for anyone interested, but was playing horribly for some reason and went 2-3. VS Miracles 3 times, won two and lost a third when G3 I had to mull to 5 and got run over by Jace and Entreat. DnT is where I really messed up, G3 I missed there was no fetch in the gy so Pondered instead of bolting a Mother of Runes thinking I could do both so had to eventually burn a bolt and decay on it as well as take 10-15 dmg from a Batterskull. The game went for about 30 turns and I went through all 4 flickerwisps, every recruiter and CJ on Null rods etc but after the dust settled I had a TNN, him Germ with Skull and Jitte with 1 counter, he drew Sword of Fire and Ice for lethal. My next card was Brainstorm into Snapcaster and Decay :frown: Also lost vs Storm, mulled to 5 g3 and got destroyed by a t1 Dark Confidant.

Here is a nice moment from one of the Miracles matches, grinding through his whole deck! http://imgur.com/a/41zpR

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Regarding 1 or 2 Gurmags...imho it also is about hitting this big fatty in the first place, 1 Gurmag just doesn't show up often enough maybe? I stick with two delve monsters, but i am going to try a 1/1 Gurmag Angler/Tombstalker Split. One benefit of the erasure of red is that BB is less of a hassle with 4 US, 1 Bayou and the 4 DRS....

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Originally Posted by sanderanders

Regarding 1 or 2 Gurmags...imho it also is about hitting this big fatty in the first place, 1 Gurmag just doesn't show up often enough maybe? I stick with two delve monsters, but i am going to try a 1/1 Gurmag Angler/Tombstalker Split. One benefit of the erasure of red is that BB is less of a hassle with 4 US, 1 Bayou and the 4 DRS....

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You might be right, I've just had quite a few games already where I struggle to cast the first one in a meaningful time. Only once have I drawn the second in this situation, which was awful, but I've had to BS or Ponder the second away too quite a lot. This build is a lot more reactive than Grixis Delver and doesn't have Probe to fuel it too. I may try a Strix in this spot. Or alternatively maybe this slot doesn't need to be a creature, 15 is quite high.

I went through another couple of leagues, 4-1 first (losing to UR Delver in the last round) and 5-0 (I guess it will be on MTGGoldfish tomorrow), it's feeling very good! It's recorded on my twitch from the last round of the first league if anybody wants to watch.

I'm still unsure on the second Gurmag, but will keep trying 2 for now.

The Null Rods in the board were fantastic, and lots of Miracles decks are going from Mentor to Entreat so I put another Invasive Surgery, which was very good too. Leovold wasn't too impressive, neither were the Thoughtseizes.

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Gurmag Angler

2 Thoughtseize
4 Ponder

4 Brainstorm
1 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Daze
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will

4 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta

SB:

2 Flusterstorm
2 Invasive Surgery
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Make Obsolete
2 Pyroblast
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Fire Covenant
1 Pithing Needle
2 Null Rod

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Whitefaces

I went through another couple of leagues, 4-1 first (losing to UR Delver in the last round) and 5-0 (I guess it will be on MTGGoldfish tomorrow), it's feeling very good! It's recorded on my twitch from the last round of the first league if anybody wants to watch.

I'm still unsure on the second Gurmag, but will keep trying 2 for now.

The Null Rods in the board were fantastic, and lots of Miracles decks are going from Mentor to Entreat so I put another Invasive Surgery, which was very good too. Leovold wasn't too impressive, neither were the Thoughtseizes.

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Gurmag Angler

2 Thoughtseize
4 Ponder

4 Brainstorm
1 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Daze
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will

4 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta

SB:

2 Flusterstorm
2 Invasive Surgery
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Marsh Casualties
1 Make Obsolete
2 Pyroblast
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Fire Covenant
1 Pithing Needle
2 Null Rod

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Really nice.
You should try my decklist. 3 Pierce and 3 True-name. It feels really great.
And then you can found your own sideboard. Maybe you can put Leovold in the sideboard.

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Originally Posted by AfroSmile

Really nice.
You should try my decklist. 3 Pierce and 3 True-name. It feels really great.
And then you can found your own sideboard. Maybe you can put Leovold in the sideboard.

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Shall do, I like the idea of 3 Pierce and 3 TNN a lot more than these 2 TS and Leovold :smile: My only worry with that is too many cards to take out vs DnT. I guess more Forces can stay in, I usually keep 2.

I put this list together the other night with small changes. I do not own a 3rd Snapcaster Mage so I ran 2 Snaps and added +1 Leovold to the deck.

I played a small four rounder. Out of decks there I saw the meta was almost exactly 25% BR Reanimator, and felt good about my 3 Surgicals in the side. This list is much better against BR than other stuff I normally play, usually BUG Delver or Alluren or Shardless.

2-1 Enchantress
Game 1 was easy as I was on the play. I started on turn 1 Deathrite Shaman with Daze up. I dazed some stuff and killed him with a turn 2 Delver. I didn't notice until he said it, but he didn't resolve a single spell this game. Game 2 I had a slower hand on the draw, and drew my 1 Leovold which I was really hoping for in the match up. I did not however have enough counters or cantrips this game to find my way through all the Elephant Grass, and he managed to resolve a Doomwake Giant and although he could not draw extra cards, he slowly grinded through all my creatures except Leo and killed me. Game 3 he mulled to 6 and I kept a hand with a Waste. A good Enchantress player doesn't go around putting Wild Growth on a Savannah but he had to this time so he got blown out by a turn 2 Wasteland and conceded. His friend said his hand of 7 was marginally better but if either hand crumpled to a single Waste then I don't think either of them were keepable against a Delver player.

2-1 BR Reanimator
I was silly and didn't realize I had already known this player was on BR Reanimator from sitting near a Reanimator mirror in the first round, and should have kept a better 7. He won the die roll and had a turn 1 Sire of Insanity through a single Daze, so I scooped without playing any more. I brought in 3 Surgicals, 2 Thoughtseizes, and a Flusterstorm for some slower threats, preferring to just try to beat their initial attempt at going off and then outdrawing them. I find it's okay to side out threats and just kill them with whatever you find later rather than trying to ensure you have a turn 1 Delver or something in this matchup. Game 2 I was on the play with a DRS and enough Forces and Dazes to stop him on the initial attempt and from killing my DRS, then I landed a second one and did nothing except activate them until he conceded. Game 3 I was on the draw and he played a line that used like his entire hand to lose to a single Surgical.

2-0 BUG Delver
I lost the die roll and we cast Deathrites and Delvers and Abrupt Decays back and forth. Like a lot of Delver mirrors (and just how Ben Friedman has often said) we traded removal back and forth until the game stalled out and then just as promised, my top decks were stronger than his. I killed him with a Snapcaster that did 8 damage and flashed back an AD for a Tarmogoyf and drew more action than he did. He cast 2 Fatal Push though and that sort of surprised me because I didn't know that card was legal yet. Game 2 on the draw I killed everything he played, landed a Gurmag Angler he couldn't deal with, and Pyroblasted a Jace he brought in to try to out grind me. The addition of the red beat this Delver mirror easily due to Bolt and the sideboarded Pyro's.

2-0 Merfolk
I lost the die roll again but his hand was pretty slow. He had nothing but a Cursecatcher and appeared to struggle with blue mana after I turn 1 Wasted his Cavern. His next land was a Mutavault and he could only attack for 1, so I was only hemorrhaging life slowly while getting a good graveyard together and cantripping. I Wasted a Mutavault, Bolted another Mutavault, and got a flipped Delver together and he landed a True-Name. Our race was even until he popped out two Lords in a turn and swung for 8. I had to decide whether to try to mitigate the damage or ignore it. I had an Insectile Aberration, a Delver of Secrets, and 3 lands. He was at 11, and I was taking a lot of damage this turn. I had a bolt in hand as well as a Snap. I decided to take full combat damage and attempt to 1) Bolt him end step to 8 2) blind flip my second Delver, 3) also get up to 4 mana so I could Snap -> Bolt without being caught by a Cursecatcher. I took full combat damage leaving me dead next turn no matter what, Bolted his face, then untapped and blind revealed a Brainstorm. I flipped Delver, then fetched the Brainstorm away and drew a Tropical Island. I played it, Snap Bolted him and got the concession. Game 2 I cast a lot of Abrupt Decays and Bolts and killed him with a Leovold and a True-Name.

Is this the thread for discussing the 4c delverless delver decks? A.k.a Thomas Mar Czech Special a.k.a Noah Walker 4c? Or does that deck have its own thread somewhere? I cannot find it.

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Originally Posted by LarsLeif

Is this the thread for discussing the 4c delverless delver decks? A.k.a Thomas Mar Czech Special a.k.a Noah Walker 4c? Or does that deck have its own thread somewhere? I cannot find it.

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No, it´s the wrong thread. There is no 100% correct thread for it but most people discuss it in the Team America Midrange/Control thread.

Same list as above from the other day, with a Leovold in the main and 2 Snaps, 2 TNN, and 2 Gurmags. List:

19 Lands
2 Volcanic Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta

15 Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Delver of Secrets
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Gurmag Angler

26 Instants/Sorceries
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Spell Pierce
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Abrupt Decay

15 SB
2 Pithing Needle
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Thoughtseize
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyroblast
1 Flusterstorm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest (questionable pet card)

Rd 1 - Enchantress 2-0
Played this guy a few days prior round 1 also and he grumbled. I lost the die roll and let him Wild Growth and Utopia Sprawl his basic Forest, start casting Suppression Fields and doing whatever he wanted. I had a single Delver and a bunch of counters and duals in hand with no fetches, so I had no interest in countering anything short of an Enchantress. This proved correct as I hit him for 3 (paying 2 mana for an Elephant grass) every turn until he died, holding counters for anything actually threatening that he could play. A different hand could have possibly lost to the Suppression Fields, but that's not how this one turned out. I sided out the Gurmag Anglers (due to Elephant Grass and possible RIP) and some Dazes, boarded in a Leovold and some Surgicals, hoping to counter an Enchantress/Enchantress' Presence and Surgical it out. On the draw I kept what I thought was reasonable with a turn 1 DRS and a Surgical and some cantrips. He ramped for turn 1 and then dropped a RIP turn 2 which I had no free counter for and my hand started to look abysmal. I spent the rest of the game playing lands and waiting for him to kill me, but it never happened. I eventually just dropped a Snapcaster Mage with no target and hit him for 2 for a long time, then Bolted him out of the game. His draws were just not very good.

Rd 2 - 4 Color something or other 1-2

This list was a BUG control shell with all the good stuff, plus 2 white duals to support Swords. These games played out how I expect Shardless to play out. His endgame is stronger with Lili, Jace, Sylvan Library, Leovold, and lots of Strixes. Game 1 I got him to 1 before he stabilized and outdrew me, both of us using multiple Snapcasters on Abrupt Decays, going through a bunch of Deathrites each, and him eventually getting through my 2 copies of Gurmag before landing a Leovold I was out of answers to and then a Jace. I boarded out the Forces but kept 3 Dazes, then brought in Jittes and Pyroblasts and the Ancient Grudge for his creatures. On the play I flipped 2 Delvers by turn 3 and countered everything he did including his last hope of a Jace which ate a Spell Pierce and killed him really quickly. Game 3 we played the longest match of the night, him going through 3 total copies of Fatal Push, a bunch of Decays, and drawing off of Strixes, killing TNN's and Gurmags with Lilis, and then stabilizing very low with my last threat dead. I felt completely comfortable with winning this game until he wasted my second Volcanic and I lost the game with a hand full of Bolt Bolt Ancient Grudge which were uncastable.

Rd 3 - UR Delver 2-0

Game 1 I won the die roll and led with Delver against his Swiftspear. Over the course of the next four turns I Bolted and Decayed his Delver, Swiftspear, and Stormchaser with counter backup left over for a suspected Price of Progress and killed him with just the turn 2 Insect. For game two I sided out 2 Wastelands and 2 Forces, replacing them with Pyros and Jittes. I played the game slowly, running a DRS and then a Delver into back to back Dazes and taking 1 a turn from Swiftspear, then started deploying my better stuff when his hand was softer. Eventually I cleaned his board, then landed a DRS and gained life with it until he conceded to a True-Name. This match seems to revolve around Abrupt Decay as it bypasses their ability to stick a Prowess threat and protect it with Daze. TNN also lines up very well against them as the race seemed doable provided they never resolve a POP.

Rd 4 - Zoo 2-1

I drew so many bolts this round that I felt sorry for my poor Nacatl-casting friend. He was running Paths in the main which were perfect against me, and also had a good collection of green and white hate bears which were annoying, but I Decayed and Bolt-Snap-Bolted everything and raced him game 1 without too many issues. Game 2 was harder on the draw, even after bringing in the Jitte's, against 2 Nacatl's and then Qasali Pridemages that killed my expensive Jitte investment. I fell short of racing him after he got a Library set up and drew some gas. Game 3 I went back on the Daze plan and played threats out slower, making sure to have Pierce up to protect them. Instead of pumping out Delvers and Deathrites into the face of removal I preferred to cantrip into removal, clear the board, then landed a Delver finally after making sure I could protect it from at least two Bolts or Paths, and then made it to the Jitte+TNN plan for the concession, making 3-1 for the night.

Notes: I really want that 3rd Snapcaster Mage, and the Leovold in the main will be cut for it. I love the card and I think he's amazing, but in this deck with the red and the fast game plan he isn't quite as good. It's possible though that with more and more hate for TNN becoming prevalent soon due to Reid's success with Noble BUG, I may cut the Merfolk instead. 2 Jitte's in the side were a dream and came in in every matchup where I wanted to kill creatures. Leaning on red in the sideboard is usually not done, looking at Ben Friedman's lists, because of the fragility of only having 2 Volcanics. I walked right into this with my greed against the BUG player because I simply could not justify not running Pyroblast.. Losing your two red sources is extremely easy and should be almost counted on. I think I could have 4-0'd if I had simply left my second Volc in hand until trying to bolt him out of the game or something later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manipulato

No, it´s the wrong thread. There is no 100% correct thread for it but most people discuss it in the Team America Midrange/Control thread.

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I see. Thank you!