[Deck] Pox

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Originally Posted by Matthias

Hi and thanks @Tiago for coming back to the topic. This should be about Pox decks and not MBC which is pretty different. More props to Tiago for playing Necroplasm, I had to look it up :-) What's your experience with this card.

I've recently changed my Pox build rather radically, cutting Mishras and Tombstalkers altogether, and focusing on Pox's main strength: Disruption. This is my acutal list:

17 Swamp
4 Wasteland
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Crucible of Worlds

4 Bloodghast
4 Nihilith

4 Innocent Blood
4 Geth's Verdict

4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach

4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
4 Pox

Sideboard:

4 Extirpate
4 Pithing Needle
3 Reanimate
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Surgical Extraction

I really had doubts to cut Tombstalker (Pox's best win option so far) and Mishra (recurring beater and the best way to hold opposing Jaces in check), and by relying on two win conditions, I make myself quite vulnerable to Extirpate, but after testing the deck quite extensively and playing in two tournaments I'm quite happy with the changes.

Nihilith and pox effects are obviously a great synergy. Usually Nihilith hits the Battlefield after 2-3 turns as the rest of the deck focuses on binning you opponents permanents and lands. And with the triggered ability being a may ability, you can perfectly time its entering the battlefield (with haste!) to greatest effect.

The rest of the deck is pretty standard: 8 removal spells, 8 discard spells, 8 LD spells and 8 pox effects. I chose Duress as 1-Mana discard spell because there are so many ways to deal with creatures on the battlefield that it's not worth running Thoughtseize or Inquisition.

The sideboard runs a severe anti control/combo package with 5 extirpate effects (which you also need to fight Life from the Loam, your nightmare 2-mana-sorcery) and 3 Chains of Mephitopheles, as you won't need more removal than you got with the poxes. Reanimate shines against Knight/Crusher/Tarmogoyf or other undercosted threats. Needle is mainly agains Aether Vial which quite effectively hoses you.

I posted this because I'd like to remember that "pure" Pox lists are still competitive and also great fun to play (I just like games where you wont have more than 8 permanents on the table, overall). There's nothing than to crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear their lamentation of "loosing to this crap mono black deck piloted by a noob lucksack".

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Hey, great list. I've also liked nihilith in the deck for obvious reasons. What I don't like about your current list is the amount of discard you have in there. I think the Gerrard's Verdict is overkill and possibly unnecessary. With all of the Sensei's Top in the format, it seems weak to not play any yourself since Pox decks often play in Topdeck mode and Sensei's Top makes Topdeck mode a lot easier to play. Further more, with all of the Sensei's Top in the format, it seems weak to play purely discard since many decks can operate fine with just playing off the top of their decks.

Thus, once you have put them at 0 cards in hand, your nihilith no longer fully takes advantage of the suspend counters and any additional nihilith after that would be rendered significantly slower.

Have you ever considered a Bg list which plays with large creatures like Nihilith/Tombstalker/other big beaters along with Pernicious Deed? I think Pernicious Deed is a significantly more powerful card than Gerrard's Verdict. Coupling the sweeper with spot removal like Innocent Blood and possibly Small Pox and Big Pox, the deck would run a lot like BUGstill with discard replacing countermagic.

What do you think?

@Matthias I'm wondering if you would want to run something instead of innocnent blood. It's going to be Mental Misstepped when alot of times when it would matter. Nonshroud removal is probably less important now that people aren't really playing nimble mongoose. I guess it still hits lackey.

Ratchet Bomb?

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Originally Posted by jin

Have you ever considered a Bg list which plays with large creatures like Nihilith/Tombstalker/other big beaters along with Pernicious Deed? I think Pernicious Deed is a significantly more powerful card than Gerrard's Verdict. Coupling the sweeper with spot removal like Innocent Blood and possibly Small Pox and Big Pox, the deck would run a lot like BUGstill with discard replacing countermagic.

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Could also run LftL for recurring manlands and wasteland, Goyf, Pulse. I can see that working, but not with Pox 'itself'. However, Smallpox would be viable. You could even use Natural Order+toolbox/Progenitus. But that wouldnt be a Pox deck.

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Originally Posted by clavio

@Matthias I'm wondering if you would want to run something instead of innocnent blood. It's going to be Mental Misstepped when alot of times when it would matter. Nonshroud removal is probably less important now that people aren't really playing nimble mongoose. I guess it still hits lackey.

Ratchet Bomb?

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I agree on this. Maybe even just drop Innocent Blood and play 4 MM.

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Originally Posted by jin

Have you ever considered a Bg list which plays with large creatures like Nihilith/Tombstalker/other big beaters along with Pernicious Deed? I think Pernicious Deed is a significantly more powerful card than Gerrard's Verdict. Coupling the sweeper with spot removal like Innocent Blood and possibly Small Pox and Big Pox, the deck would run a lot like BUGstill with discard replacing countermagic.

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Could also run LftL for recurring manlands and wasteland, Goyf, Pulse. I can see that working, but not with Pox 'itself'. However, Smallpox would be viable. You could even use Natural Order+toolbox/Progenitus. But that wouldnt be a Pox deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by clavio

@Matthias I'm wondering if you would want to run something instead of innocnent blood. It's going to be Mental Misstepped when alot of times when it would matter. Nonshroud removal is probably less important now that people aren't really playing nimble mongoose. I guess it still hits lackey.

Ratchet Bomb?

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I agree on this. Maybe even just drop Innocent Blood and play 4 MM.

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Originally Posted by Tiago_B.

Could also run LftL for recurring manlands and wasteland, Goyf, Pulse. I can see that working, but not with Pox 'itself'. However, Smallpox would be viable. You could even use Natural Order+toolbox/Progenitus. But that wouldnt be a Pox deck.

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I get your point, but I don't see how it can't work with pox. pox needs a sweeper, and this is the best one.

everytime I rely on pox to destroy a swarm, I end up leavin gonly the fatties in play.. i think this deck needs a sweeper, and damnation just isnt that hot.

My point was that Pox needs black mana, and that need would make the manabase weaker in a 2-colored deck. That could be helped by running Dark Ritual.

Other than that, i dont see why they couldnt be in the same list.

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Originally Posted by Tiago_B.

My point was that Pox needs black mana, and that need would make the manabase weaker in a 2-colored deck. That could be helped by running Dark Ritual.

Other than that, i dont see why they couldnt be in the same list.

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i don't see how a couple of bayous and a couple of fetchlands can possibly affect casting pox.. we run urborg anyway.. well at least I do.

Well then, maybe getting your lands wasted could affect casting Pox......

LftL solves that....But against decks that put you on clock, losing a turn to LftL because u got wastelanded.....

Still, there are quite a few PoxLoam builds, even in this thread i think. Have you been working on a list? Could you post it?

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Originally Posted by Tiago_B.

Well then, maybe getting your lands wasted could affect casting Pox......

LftL solves that....But against decks that put you on clock, losing a turn to LftL because u got wastelanded.....

Still, there are quite a few PoxLoam builds, even in this thread i think. Have you been working on a list? Could you post it?

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welll I was thinking something like this:

23 lands
4x bayou
2x urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4x verdant catacombs
2x marsh flats
11 swamp

14 threats
4x nihilith
4x gathan raider
4x tombstalker
2x vampire nighthawk

23 spells
4x smallpox
4x innocent blood
4x pernicious deed
2x pox
4x hymn to tourach
4x duress/thoughtseize (whatever you fancy)
1x Life from the Loam

Just a thought, I haven't reallly tested it. personally, I'm more interested in contamination...

This is the new version of Pox that i am running. I have finally gotten a more fine tuned version which focuses primarily on a quick kill with pox board wipe effects.

here's the list:

3x berserk
4x death's shadow
4x lurking evil
4x bloodghast

4x infernal contract
4x sign in blood

3x inquistion of kozlek
4x pox
4x smallpox

4x bayou
1x forest
9x swamp
4x marsh flats
4x verdant catacombs


what made the deck for me was the lurking evil. it offered a few things that the deck lacked before in the past. it gave us a reliable way to go to 1 life quickly to turbo power up death's shadow since you can activate the ability if it is in an enchantment state or creature state. it doesn't lose this ability. it also has evasion from pox and wrath effects and basically can win on it own much like tombstalker.

pox and smallpox keep opponents in line with symmetrical resource loss effects; however, our guys like death's shadow can take tremendous advantage of our lifeloss, and of course sign in blood is a great card draw mechanism or finisher.

Hello, i would like to know how good pox plays against todays decks. Can it keep up with decks like cawblade or merfolk? Is the deck still competetive?


I will probably post a list i made later when i find out how to. (First post, yay)

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Originally Posted by zathe922

Hello, i would like to know how good pox plays against todays decks. Can it keep up with decks like cawblade or merfolk? Is the deck still competetive?

I will probably post a list i made later when i find out how to. (First post, yay)

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i have played every version of pox known to Mtg, in every period of the game, since tempest.
i (do not have all the big money cards) for this list, but have been play testing it, to see if it would be worth investing the money.

4 sinkhole
4 pox
4 small pox
4 duress
4 hymn to tourach
3 bloodghast
4 reanimate
4 geth's verdict
2 black sun's zenith
4 extirpate
4 dark ritual
4 mox diamond
3 chrome mox
12 swamp

i rarely have mana problems, so Black Sun's Zenith is a decent board sweep,
i also run ensnaring bridges too, it is easy to get the bloodghasts under the bridge, also i rarely have a hand. this version, also, has no real win condition.
i have been working with nether traitor because of the shadow, and their ability to come back onto the board, once a bloodghast leaves.
reanimate works well, i do not care about the life loss, even with pox, but reanimate and bridge do not really work that well together, but it lets me sac one of my opponents creatures for a pox, instead of my own nether traitor(when in) which does get under the bridge easy enough.

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Originally Posted by iamfrightenedtoo

4 dark ritual
4 mox diamond
3 chrome mox
12 swamp

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Seven Moxen seems a bit high even for a Pox deck! Black Sun seems a good edition to the deck

This is the list I'm testing atm:


4 Wasteland
4 Cabal Pit
4 Mishras Factory
4 Urborg Tomb of Yawgmoth
8 Swamp
4 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Sinkhole
4 Geths Verdict
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourarch
4 Crucible of worlds
4 Tombstalker

SB:

4 Leyline of the Void
4 Wretched banquet
4 Ghastly Demnise
3 Duress

4 Crucibles are necassary because its the only way to get an advantage in my build.
Due the rising midrange decks acceleration isnt played.
4 Cabal Pits are a pretty good way to keep merfolk in track.

The sideboard mostly includes solutions for the faster aggro decks.

Testing shows quite good results

you might want to run diabolic edict instead of geth b/c of single black

While Pox certainly won't be a Tier 1 (or even Tier 2) deck by any stretch of the imagination, it seems like the new Liliana might fit in this archetype like a glove.

The new Lilliana might be reason enough to start running Dark Ritual again.

Name: Liliana of the Veil
Cost: :1::b::b:
Type: Planeswalker - Liliana
Pow/Tgh: 3
Rules Text:
+1: Each player discards a card.
-2: Target player sacrifices a creature.
-6: Separate all permanents target player controls into two piles. That player sacrifices all permanents in the pile of his or her choice.

Just to make it easier...
New Liliana is hella sexy in Pox.

New Liliana suddenly made me want to try out Pox, here's the list I've been toying with so far:


4 Bloodghast
3 Bitterblossom
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Smallpox
4 Sinkhole
4 Innocent Blood
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Duress

4 Wasteland
8 Swamp
4 Mental Misstep
4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Mox Diamond


Duress was Hymn, but it didn't feel as useful with all the other discard the deck packs. I'm wondering if it might be more prudent to drop the Moxes + a few lands for some combination of The Rack and either another Liliana or Hymns. Also thought about Raven's Crime + Dakmor Salvage, but haven't done any testing to see if it's actually effective or just cute.

Thoughts?

I would drop Moxen completely in place for Rituals, and then reintroduce The Rack to work in conjunction with Lilliana. I would definitely try to put in Inquisition of Kozilek which provides better utility to clear creatures from your opponent's hand.