[DTB] Vial Goblins

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

2 Fanatics is kind of meh. Leave 1 if you want the tech, and add 1 Sharpshooter main, cause with 3 Warren Weirding, and only 2 Gempalm, 2 Siege-Gang and 2 Fanatic, your mirror must not be good at all...

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I do not understand why you guys are so against Mogg Fanatic. This card is amazing as it pushes through a lot of damage over the coarse of a game. Its a must answer for a lot of decks that many players seem to under estimate.

I would not run less than 4 in a goblin deck that I would play. If you want to look for room in order to play Earwing Squad or a different goblin, I would look at other choices. Goblin piledriver comes to mind as its the first goblin I would think about cutting, since its only good with multiple goblins already in play.

If you go with just the R/B configuration, I would not play Frogtosser Banneret b/c he seems just too weak in a deck where quality matters, more so than speed.

If people don't play either plague or enchantments that you can't deal with, then by all means go with R/B, but in some metagames you can't get away with that.

I'm sorry if I haven't made myself clear. I just cut 1 Fanatic from that list, because he was running only 2, and i thought that he didn't liked it very much.

I'm currently trying to run 0 Fanatics, but I'm not trying to convince anyone to drop them. I'm only dooing this because in my meta there arent any dredge/ichorid, neither people running bob or other x/1 creatures worth killing. There is, nonetheless, lots of Mishra's Factories, regen dudes (lynx & boas), among others, so I'm trying something diferent.

I think that that list has too many Earwig Squad's. If you like it, run 2. Cutting a 3rd Siege-Gang for it, is not worth, in my opinion.

And, finally, I'm starting to get inclined in dropping 1 Piledriver (4 to 3), but still think that isn't going to be a good move...

I'm playing r/b/g vial goblins and I need a little help with my deck.

Lands-22
4-wasteland
4-badland
4-taiga
4-mountain
4-bloodstained mire
2-wooded foothill

non-goblins-4
4-aether vial

goblins-34
4-mogg fanatic
4-goblin lackey
3-warren weirdling
3-goblin piledriver
1-tin street hooligan
4-goblin warchief
4-goblin matron
2-gempalm incinerator
1-goblin sharpshooter
4-goblin ringleader
2-wort bogart auntie
2-siege-gang commander

sideboard-15
4-leyline of the void
4-krosan grip
3-tin street hooligan
4-enginered explosives

One of the main differences between my deck and others is that I play less land, I play less siege-gangs (hence less land). I play only 3 piledrivers because I didn't know what else to cut. I really like the two wort bogart aunties because they help get recurring creature destruction. Against dragon stompy getting them down quick really helped me win by recuring warren weirdling. I would really like some help makeing my deck better.

I think 4 Krosan Grip + 4 EE is kind of too much, specially with 4 TSH total...

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Originally Posted by StarHawk

I'm playing r/b/g vial goblins and I need a little help with my deck.

Lands-22
4-wasteland
4-badland
4-taiga
4-mountain
4-bloodstained mire
2-wooded foothill

non-goblins-4
4-aether vial

goblins-34
4-mogg fanatic
4-goblin lackey
3-warren weirdling
3-goblin piledriver
1-tin street hooligan
4-goblin warchief
4-goblin matron
2-gempalm incinerator
1-goblin sharpshooter
4-goblin ringleader
2-wort bogart auntie
2-siege-gang commander

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Vial Goblins

4 Mountains
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
4 Badlands
3 Taiga
4 Aether Vial
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Lackey
3 Warren Weirdling
3 Goblin Piledriver
1 Tin Street Hooligan
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Wort, Bogart Auntie
2 Siege-Gang Commander

Mega game depends on sideboard

2 Engineered Explosives
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Krosan Grip
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Chalice of the Void

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Originally Posted by nickrit2000

1 Goblin Sharpshooter

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Is there a particular reason why you run Sharpshooter? You seem to include it in most of your lists.

I'm currently running a very similar creature configuration to yours (-1 Sharpshooter, +1 SGC) and I haven't ever wished that I had Sharpshooter.

I agree with the 4x fanatics, they are AMAZING for me alot of the time. I also run 3x Drivers because I think that's the correct number. But Sharpshooter is too situation dependant, I'd much rather run another Siege-banger in that slot because of just how powerful he is. I think 1x Gempalm is enough, good to tutor for. I still don't agree with the cutting of Port, very rarely do I experience the problem with getting the mana needed to play any of my Gobz.

I wrote something on Sharpshooter about 2 pages back, but I'll echo the shorter version here: Sharpshooter looks highly situational, but the shenanigans you can pull off with him are worth investing a single slot into him. For starters, he can turn your fanatics into lightning bolts, he can hit random crap like bobs, witnesses, and BoPs, he can destroy tokens and together with SGC he can wreak some serious havoc. Getting rid of a hierarch for 1 red mana and 1 generic mana?

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Originally Posted by b4r0n

Is there a particular reason why you run Sharpshooter? You seem to include it in most of your lists.

I'm currently running a very similar creature configuration to yours (-1 Sharpshooter, +1 SGC) and I haven't ever wished that I had Sharpshooter.

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I agree that sometimes sharpshooter may not seem to be very good, but then again there are a lot of matchups where by having him in your deck allows you to control the game and just win. Also, since I have to play against byrant and his TES deck, it gives me an out game 1 if he goes with ETW. Since Nausem has been printed, ETW is less of a win condition in a lot of storm combo decks. There is always survival here in Syracuse which is another reason sharpshooter stays in the main deck in all of my lists.

I ran into a lot of color mana issues when running port in my 3 color version. If you don't really have to play against landstill, then port should not be played. If anyone remembers, thats why port was added to the deck orginially was b/c of all the landstill that was running around. It also makes it hard to play port when you have 3 colors in the deck.

You know, I've been running this mana configuration. I find that Volrath's Stronghold doesn't really hurt, and has been wonderful at times. I rarely get waste-locked, so the 2 mountains haven't been an issue, but I recognize it as an exposure.


4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Badlands
2 Taiga
2 Mountain
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
1 Volrath's Stronghold

Drow Slayer; I really don't think Volrath's Stronghold fits Goblins, as the deck is already very mana intensive you just don't have the mana to use Stronghold. Stronghold might have it's uses in rare situations but it just doesn't fit the focus of the deck; an extra Port is a lot better I think. Perhaps you can explain in which situations it is useful.

I went up to 4 Siege-Gang Commanders and that finally allowed me to run my 24th land without getting flooded too much. I am very happy with that change, because Siege Gang alone can swing the game in your favor when you are behind. This made me cut Goblin Tinkerer and one Warren Weirding from the maindeck so I'm still trying to figure out if only 2 Weirdings is correct or if I should make room for a third.

On Sharpshooter; I have 4 Siege Gang and 4 Fanatic thus it allows for some cute tricks. Also, it allows you to kill Goyf postboard with Relic of Progenitus even if they still have a fetchland on board, you can go; put tap ability of Relic on stack, then put Sharpshooter on the stack and then remove all GY's from game with Relic.

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Originally Posted by Mantis

Drow Slayer; I really don't think Volrath's Stronghold fits Goblins, as the deck is already very mana intensive you just don't have the mana to use Stronghold. Stronghold might have it's uses in rare situations but it just doesn't fit the focus of the deck; an extra Port is a lot better I think. Perhaps you can explain in which situations it is useful.

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Admittedly having never tested Volrath's Stronghold and Goblins, I can't be sure, but I can imagine a few situation where it could be pretty sweet. Firstly, I am sure we can agree that Volrath's Stronghold plus an active Aether Vial would be game ending against almost everything, as long you have drawn anything good. Playing and sacing Seige-Gang at end of opponents turn to itself, Strongholding it on top of your library and doing it again would be tough for most decks to deal with. Secondly, no one would block your Ringleader or attack with a creature that could kill it, unless they were swinging for the win.

Obviously, Stronghold has some mid to late game applications and pretty much says, "for 2 mana at the end of an opponents turn draw only good cards for the rest of the game," which seems like a powerful ability. The question is, is the potential boon worth sacrificing more mana disruption. Port is obviously more inline with the decks game plan of winning quickly, but a Stronghold could be a game ending safety net. So I don't know, but it seems worthy of consideration.

Volrath's Stronghold is an interesting idea. Of course, it stinks against combo decks and aggro decks. It's really only good against control decks or midrange decks. Another problem with Stronghold is that it often won't stay around long in a format where so many decks run a set of Wasteland. However, I could see it helping against some matchups. Maybe it's worth putting a single Stronghold into the sideboard for matches where it is favorable. A single card doesn't take up much space.

A singeton without anyway to tutor for it isn't really worthy as a sideboard card. Also, since it's only good against control, I don't think it's really needed. Most forms of control decks are favorable match-ups anyway.

Like I said, what the deck really needs would be to solve (or at least even up) Goblins' match-up against combo. Any other innovation/deviation is just personal preference.

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Originally Posted by kicks_422

Like I said, what the deck really needs would be to solve (or at least even up) Goblins' match-up against combo.

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Or, alternatively, gain a 10% more games against Aggrocontrol and Aggro decks and just give up the combo matchup.

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Originally Posted by GreenOne

Or, alternatively, gain a 10% more games against Aggrocontrol and Aggro decks and just give up the combo matchup.

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That could work too, but I'd like it up by maybe 20%. :tongue:

I'm trying a new twist to Goblins... Chalice Gobs. It's still in preliminary testing, and results have been mixed. I'll post it when it's ready.

Volrath's Stronghold does seem nice, but that slot is already occuped by Rishadan Port. We can't afford another coroless producing land. 9 would be too much in a monoR list, and if you play more than 4 ina a 3 color list, those should be ports. Also, 1 Stronghold is a lot random, and you would'nt play 2.



Chalice Goblin looks a bit weird for me, once in this deck we have spells at 1cc, 2cc, 3cc, 4cc and 5cc.. but let us know what you came up with.=]

Recently I've been experiencing a few losses due to Warren Weirding not being optimal, for example one game my opponent had Nantuko Shade + Tombstalker. I had enough creatures to stall the Shade for quite some time, I drew Weirding as my last out, needless to say my opponent sacced Shade and just got in there with Tombstalker. This happened against Threshold as well with a Mongoose and a Mystic Enforcer. This got me thinking and led me to test out Swords to Plowshares, but that suffered from it's own set of problems namely that it makes you very poor against Chalice@1 and Ringleader and it also doesn't allow you to fetch up Weirding. I then tried out Terminate, it has a tough mana requirement but on the other hand it allows you to still play a singleton Weirding for Matron.

The pro's of Terminate: Instant speed (manlands, equipment) and it allows you to target and shoot down the most feared creature.
The con's: Steep mana requirement, not a Goblin (Warchief, Ringleader), doesn't work against Mongoose and Enforcer.

I know I do like the black splash more than the white splash as I can still run a Weirding that way to tutor up with Matron. Although the white splash opens up for enchantment removal at the same time.

I hope to receive some feedback on this matter as it's occupying my mind for the last couple of days and I just can't come to the conclusion which approach is better. I think 2/3 Terminate, 1 Warren Weirding is the way to go.

I'd play Snuff Out over Terminate all day, but maybe there are too black critters in your meta.

Did anyone ever test a Rbw version? It could play both Swords to Plowshares and Warren Weirding, as well as SB Vindicate as a catch-all answer.

Right that completely slipped my mind. Snuff Out could actually be good, although it can't kill Tombstalker, that's a huge con. It puts less strain on the mana so that's a good thing, I will have to see the free casting cost will actually be relevant enough to justify the life loss and not being able to hit Tombstalker. If I go with that I will need some sideboard answers to black creatures though.

I actually thought about a RBW or RGW version too, it could be pretty good indeed. I'm not sure if Vindicate is as good as it looks, if you want to run that you certainly have to cut Rishadan Port. Maybe Vindicate could even be maindeck material as without Port it can fill up the landdestruction niche Port holds.