[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

I agree that Goyf is just so good.
The differences my UGR list and the UR list I would play are:

-1 Trinket Mage
-1 Dreadnought
-1 Trickbind
-1 Extra card because I play 61 cards to play 3 Daze. (I just found myself much better with 1 more card and the third daze)

So, are you more controllish with these cards for goyf? No.
Not playing Goyf You just lose potential for a slightly less unstable manabase. (almost never been a problem though).

And Krosan Grip is one of my most used SB cards..
Lose green? No way!

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Originally Posted by Shimi

@Rood
I see that Ur is much more controlish and you won't win games just dropping nought in the darkness, but the reason i disliked it is that sometimes you opponent go trought you CB + Force + Daze and the only answer you have is playing nought even when you know it will get Stp , KGrip ,Bounced cause they just evade your defences or the clock is so fast to play a full protected nought.May be I got some wired MU or badluck but in these situations i could see the advantages of UGr over Ur.

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i played the Ur version in charrlette and went x and 2 with simply bc i made a play mistake against burn and left my self wide open.but i have no other problems with it.then again iv been playing the Ur version since rood first introduced me to it when he originially made it.
I have a tournament this saturday in a local store members of team unicorn will be there.So it will be fun.alix will be there the winner of the 5k in charlette.so rood i will be calling you sometime this week probably tonight most likely.i need to justify some spots and give you the meta game so we can come up with the correct sideboard.

I was thinking of Vision Charm instead of Trickbind. I haven't tested it but:
it works as stifle for the dreadnought
it protects dreadnought from removal
it's sinergic with top, if you see terrible cards you just mill them away
you can manascrew the opponent, or under blood moon you can use it to cast krosan grip or goyf.
It seems good for me.
Advantages of trickbind:
uncounterable
works on fetchlands

thoughts?

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Originally Posted by pippo84

I was thinking of Vision Charm instead of Trickbind. I haven't tested it but:
it works as stifle for the dreadnought
it protects dreadnought from removal
it's sinergic with top, if you see terrible cards you just mill them away
you can manascrew the opponent, or under blood moon you can use it to cast krosan grip or goyf.
It seems good for me.
Advantages of trickbind:
uncounterable
works on fetchlands

thoughts?

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Sadface, Vision Charm is awful. (Also as always, This is a comment based on testing...)

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Originally Posted by pippo84

Advantages of trickbind:
uncounterable
works on fetchlands

thoughts?

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Trickbind/Stifle has way more advantages:

Counters Pridemage disenchant (!!)
Counters EE/Deed
Sower trigger
so many things goblin...

I could go on

@Keys and JV i agree to your advices on the Charm, but i am sure the best thing only only reason why i personally play trickbind is that it doesn't get countered so normally the dreadnought will always enter the tapble as our opponents would like to cancel the stifle effect but trickbind is a garanty for getting the Warship into play so Charm is more or less just the 5th stifle but not even that usefull.

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Originally Posted by J.V.

Sadface, Vision Charm is awful. (Also as always, This is a comment based on testing...)

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the japs like it but it really is not as good as it seems.i tested it for the exact reason you did.the ability to remove the nought from the game and the ability to as you said use it as a oops i win card but the drawbacks are just not warrented to cut a trickbind.
but as with any innovation it never hurts to try.if you really would like to see use it and when you draw it ask yourself would you rather it be a trickbind?or a charm.

so it was a small tournament only 14 showed but the metagame was really tribal so il post the report.

4 x Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 x Trinket Mage
4 x Standstill
2 x Sensei's Divining Top
3 x Counterbalance
2 x Engineered Explosives
3 x Spell Snare
2 x Trickbind
4 x Brainstorm
4 x Daze
4 x Stifle
4 x Force of Will
1 x Scalding Tarn
2 x Volcanic Island
2 x Polluted Delta
1 x Misty Rainforest
6 x Island
3 x Wasteland
2 x Flooded Strand
4 x Mishra's Factory
sideboard
1 x Crucible of Worlds
1 x Pyroblast
2 x Red Elemental Blast
1 x Relic of Progenitus
1 x Tormod's Crypt
1 x Wipe Away
1 x Pithing Needle
3 x Lightning Bolt
3 x Firespout
1 x Spell Snare

ok the meta was extremely tribal from what i remember
4 x goblins, 2 x zoo, 1 x solidarity, 1 x sliver, 1 x storm, 1 x countertop goyf without bobs for some reason, 1 x dreadstill. and sorry i do not know the other 3.

anyways
round 1 i played matt playing rb vial goblins.
anyways from what i can tell from my notes game one i lost but i was on the back peddle all game long he finally got me to 1 and i just couldnt find the nought till it was too late so i scooped.
G2 i beat him down with factories and stifles doing the dirty work on his gobbos.counterbalance goes the distance.
G3 early nought wins it.

Round 2 i play aggro elves
game one i get a very fast nought and just smash face
G2 between burn and him mulling to 5 just kill him..we play a fun game and he does win a game.

Round 3 i vs goblins
I just smash him game 1 and 2 with early nought and just countermagic then burn

Round 4 i draw with aggro elves into the top 4

Top 4 Vs Christopher playing goblins we actually played in round 3

Game 1 i go turn 2 nought and he just scoops

Game 2 i actually have play notes.
i keep a hand of draw and counter he thoughtseizes me takes a stifle.
t2 i go volcanic island go
his turn he goes mogg flunkies it eats a lighting bolt
i dtrop top and and pass the turn on my next turn i drop a EE at 1
then we play draw go with me beating with a factory till he gets to low life i craft a hand of 3 firespouts and a bolt and eventually just get there
he did do the fun play of when he was at 1 life he thoughtseizes me and extends the hand in congrats.

i then draw with George who played zoo for 50 bucks store credit.
we play a fun set of games and i sweep him.

all in all the tourny was great the turn out was low but it was still fun.

Props : tower for hosting a great event, winning obv and the nice and fun opponents

Slops: all the tribal, the low turn out

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Originally Posted by Roodmistah

With the recent unbanning of Entomb it may be smart to start packing 3-4 dedicated slots of GY Hate in the SB. I personally, will be running 2-3 T-Crypt and one Relic.

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ok i know that this is a older poste but the only decks that have been coming out is a slower version of flash hulk using entomb and necromancy to do the flash hulk revelark kill.havent seen it much though but it is around.

How does that singleton sideboard work for you Neckfire? The single Crucible seems out of place to me for some reason, mind explaining that?

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Originally Posted by Steveman

How does that singleton sideboard work for you Neckfire? The single Crucible seems out of place to me for some reason, mind explaining that?

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hi steveman
the singleton sb is a little different il agree.it was made up with the help of rood.
anyways the crucible is in there for if i ever face a mirror match bc it comes down really to factory wars most of the time.The dreadnought can break it definitly but it usually is about the long game.It also helps with stax the ability to recur waste/factory.and i know you want to ask me ok then why is it only a one of the answer simply is bc i cant have a 16 card sb lol.no really i like it as a one of bc it is a another option to use not a main plan.and some of the other singles are the spell snare.reason behind that is lets assume you win game one you go
-1 daze + 1 spell snare so you can automatically counter there turn 2 play without being down a mana.
The wipe away well it was echoing truth but i opt for wipe away now bc it helps bounce apposing counterbalances.it also will break a nought standoff in the mirror.
relic/cypt well we cant have dredge going needle on a single target and shutting me down.
single needle is again for dredge just more answers for them and well a single needle with 3 trinket mages is ok when you need it for other matches i can just tutor it up.
any other questions please feel free to ask.:smile:

Why Crucible over Life From the Loam?

*EDIT* nevermind, you only have one green source

I just wonder why you didn't board Blood Moons as you dont need the green splash without goofy at all. I prefer Crucible in the Mainboard and packed a Mystical tutor in the Sideboard to find threats post board.

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Originally Posted by Tangle.Wire

I just wonder why you didn't board Blood Moons as you dont need the green splash without goofy at all. I prefer Crucible in the Mainboard and packed a Mystical tutor in the Sideboard to find threats post board.

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i have tried the tutor didnt like it.And yeah iv seen the crucible main i used to use it main with bloodmoons in the sideboard.Iv found it a win more card not a win card.yes in some meta games it will win you alot but like saturday it was all goblins and elves bloodmoon would of done me jack shit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tangle.Wire

I just wonder why you didn't board Blood Moons as you dont need the green splash without goofy at all. I prefer Crucible in the Mainboard and packed a Mystical tutor in the Sideboard to find threats post board.

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i decicided to write a more detailed reason behind the no blood moon sideboard.
Here is the exact reasons behind it.
Well first off i should explain the reasons behind Ur dreadstill because it seems alot of people enjoy playing the green splash.I have tried the green splash and yes i can see the benefits of having green you can EE for 3 you have kgrip you also have goyf.But in the green splash you play the deck like a aggro deck you just throw threats out there*the argument can be made it teaches you to play incorrectly because you dont hold back till when you can protect your creatures*.
Anyways in the Ur version our threats our nought,trinket mage and factories we rely on the factories in alot of matchups to apply pressure and to act as the defense you need.What else does the Ur version we play Land destruction between wasteland's and stifle effects on fetches.
Now if we bring in bloodmoon's what does that do?it nullifies our LD package making all of our early work for nothing it also shuts down our factories taking away one of out best threats.Remember Ur dreadstill is a complete control deck probably one of the best control deck's in legacy we have to slowly pick you apart with the option of having a huge beater if we can get it to stick.
Sorry for the long explanation but i wished to expand on my reasoning behind it.If you have anymore question feel free to ask them to me.

Neckfire i have to disagree with you, concerning your assment of the Ugr and Ur build, your claim is that the Ur version plays the control role better than Ugr (which in turn plays the aggro role better i suppose).
My claim, the Ur does the following things better:
-More likely to have these "Ooops i win" hands (something like second turn Nought or second turn Standstill with counterbackup), due to the larger number of Noughts and the additional Daze.
-Survive in metas with insane amount of nonebasic hate.
While the first point could be categorized under the combo role, the second is more about resiliency against certain hate.

Now to the Ugr build:
First of my opinion is that the green splash strengthens the Nought plan by quite a bit: Goyf absorbs hate that would otherwise be aimed at Nought and you wont be in the situation to have like 1-2 (for the situation) useless Noughts in hand. While you can sometimtes go all-in with two Noughts, its nothing i would rely on.
There numerous other advantags about Goyf, some of them:
- He makes a third turn Standstill more likely.
- Represents the answer to more aggro strategies and is especially strong in here, because of the large amount of different card types in Dreadstill.

Now about the control role, lets compare the lists:
Ur has a EE more, a Standstill and a Daze, but a CB and a Top less, besides the Goyfs with can act as a control card too (Tarmowall). The two additional cmc 2 cards strengthens CB too.
I wont start about the sideboard advantages.

So in the end i think that Ugr plays the control just as good, if not better.

I took a long time to switch to Ugr, mainly because i love the elegancy and high number of basics in Ur, but after VersusTheWorld demonstrated the power of Ugr i couldnt say no..
That doesnt mean that i dont see possibilties for Ur, i just think the old standard list is a little outdated. Testing with cars like Fire/ Ice, Crucible main or Threads / Firespout main could show that the Ur version pulls ahead again. The first change i would make personally, is cutting a Standstill and an EE from the main and go from there, I would also like to see that the dependency on Nought gets decreased.

For reference the lists i used for the comparison:
More or less standard Ur version:
// Lands
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
6 [SHM] Island (2)
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [TE] Wasteland
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
2 [B] Volcanic Island

// Creatures
4 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
2 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [SC] Stifle
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [CS] Counterbalance
4 [NE] Daze
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [DIS] Spell Snare


My slightly modified version of Ugr:
// Lands
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [TSP] Island (1)
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
3 [TE] Wasteland
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
3 [B] Volcanic Island
3 [B] Tropical Island

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [MI] Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [IA] Brainstorm
4 [CS] Counterbalance
3 [NE] Daze
3 [OD] Standstill
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives (second in sb)
1 [TSP] Trickbind
4 [SC] Stifle
3 [DIS] Spell Snare

the main reason i have not switched entirely is because i have tried the green version many a time i just simply do not play well with it.maybe i should redo what i said i simply do not believe the green version is optimal.i do agree that you can set up goyf wall.but i do not play well with it.

@Deadlock i understand your arguments for UGR but since i play both lists about a bit more than a year now (90% tournament experience) where i've learned that UR plays the control strategy better because everytime we drop a Tarmogoyf we have/want to protect it so even if it catches 2 hate spells which could have targeted the dreadnought normally without countertop in action we also waste 1-2 counters to protect it (not on every case but most of the situations i want to keep goofy).

The 2 Senseis top which are definitly a problem i personally had too when i started up with the list gets fixed very well by following changes:

- 1 Trinket
- 1 Explosives

+ 1 Top
+ 1 Rushing River

As i first only cut the mage for the 3rd top i found out that i normally only drop EE once a game so with 4 brainstorm 3 top 4 standstill it wouldn't be a problem getting the one or one of the 2 left trinkets. Also i often had the problem that EE wasn't fast enough for random situations so i took the Rushing River to the list keeping 1 EE left for the mages. (I actually run a mystical tutor in the sideboard now so the 1 river is not that random as we want to count on it in some situations.

Also the UR control plan gets very good support by crucible of worlds and blood moons (as you run them) as they can knock down difficult matchups better than the goofy imo and they also can win games even if its not on the direct hit like goofies.

I feel like running the UGR build on the US Aggro/Zoo matchups is definitly not the wrong way but otherwise in europe there are a lot af landstill/countertop or other controlling decks so i really liked the UR list much more as it has a bit more resistance against other disruption.


As i missed the last 3 tournaments here i wanted to discuss 2-3 Slots on my current UR build as i really don't feel 100% fine with it, -1 Standstill +1 Counterbalance or just keep 4 Standstill? (i think i like the Standstill more but it gets boarded out in so many games and i never feld bad about drawing a counterbalance but 4 standstill serve drawing a counterbalance...and so on)

List:

4 Dreadnought
2 Trinket Mage

3 Counterbalance
3 S. Divining Top
4 Stifle
4 Standstill
4 Daze
3 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
1 Trickbind
1 Rushing River
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds

5 Island
3 Polluted Delta (i actually don't have the U/R fetches^^)
3 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's factory
3 Wasteland
3 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:

2 Hibernation
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Firespout
3 Pyroblast
1 Mystical Tutor
2 Blood Moon
1 Morphling


ps: Yes it's a Morphling, since the first days i play Stifle/Dreadnought on any kind i sometimes placed it in the sideboard and really won games with it.
As the U/R list has no really other win conditions than dreadnought (i don't count on factories almost if i boarded the blood moons).
I'am sure Blood moon and Morphling seem to be irritating but on every test game i had blood moon and standstills stalled the game till i hade 6-7 lands and i always had the UU to protect it. also the blood moon shuts down around 16 lands of the deck so morphling will use it paired to divining top.

I actually never had any agreements to that card on this list but on tournaments a lot of Landstill/Rock/Baseruption players wouldn't believe that they just lost to a morphling in a dreadstill deck which shows once again that typing decklists and playing decklists are two different things.


-> If anyone reads this till here, thanks for the time :laugh:

why hybernation?

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Originally Posted by neckfire

why hybernation?

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As it is brilliant =)

- Elves
- Goofy
- Mongoose
- Progenitus
- Survival decks almost
- CC3 vs Counterbalance

Also it hits some random stuff like mystic enforcer, pridemage, warmonk etc..

I had 2 Submerges for the spot but since we need quick removal the firespout/Lightning bolts work very good, i liked hybernation as a sweeper even against ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh, elves, progenitus last made some trouble on the games i played against it so i removed the 2 submerges for them as submerge only gets fun if you have 3-4.