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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thefreakaccident
Anyways, Most players in my meta generally don't over-commit. And with stifles, wastelands, and dazes I can only usually cast and use my mass removal turns 6-7 anyways. Don't kid yourself by acting superior in any way, i'm just stating facts and perspectives.
Then you haven't played against those cards enough. Tempo Thresh is fucking easy as hell to beat the living piss out of pre-board. If you want to get into post board bull shit, those cards still don't hurt you. REB is what puts you down. And if you want to get into a discussion about Merfolk running those cards, it's still fucking easier to deal with Merfolk. Only difference is that you don't have to deal with REB post board, and that is why your match up against Merfolk should still be good.
Don't kid yourself by trying to defend this. I'm just stating objective perspectives.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citrus-God
f you want to get into post board bull shit
I feel that discussing post board games is extremely important, because those are the most relevant in tourneys, since they're 2 out of 3, while pre-board you only have a single game.
If the "Post board bull shit" wasn't important, then Dredge would be the de-facto best deck in the format because it has awesome game ones against pretty much the whole field with few exceptions.
Instead it's a tier 2 deck because in 2 out of 3 games you have heaploads of ways of stopping their game plan and they don't have a reliable Plan B...
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
I played a tournament this weekend splitting the final. 18 people attended. 5 rounds, no top-8.
Since the last big tournament in my region was dominated by ANT a lot of people picked up the deck. I myself have been testing against it and thus settled on the following list:
4 swords to plowshares
3 wrath of god
3 decree of justice
2 elspeth
1 eternal dragon
3 vindicate
3 engineered explosives
2 spellsnare
3 counterspell
4 force of will
3 brainstorm
3 standstill
3 fact or fiction
3 flooded strand
1 polluted delta
2 marsh flats
2 island
2 plains
1 swamp
4 tundra
1 underground sea
1 scrubland
3 mishra's factory
3 wasteland
SB
2 preacher
2 path to exile
2 engineered plague
2 relic of progenitus
3 ethersworn cannonist
2 meddling mage
1 runed halo
1 ajani gold-mane
The report:
Round 1: Teammate with ANT
Game 1: I have a reasonable hand but I need to draw some extra counters. The game carries on and I have only protection from a spell snare (which he knows) and an explosives set at 0. I still manage to beat him though since he doesn’t get the right cards.
Game 2: I see my hate pieces quite soon and win quite easily
Round 2: Teammate (I know but we were with ten people from our team) with Zoo
I don’t like this match-up at all. In testing several months ago I got beaten quite easily by this deck and so I don’t look forward to the match. Since those months the version has evolved from burn oriented (with fireblast, magma jet and price of progress) to creature oriented.
Game 1: Although he has an active sylvan library from turn 2 on and I never manage to destroy it I can keep him light on mana and eventually seal the game in my favor. I make a huge playmistake when I let my Elspeth die to Goyf + burn (I could have brainstormed for stp and avoided it all together). I remember having a perfectly logical reason(something involving drawing out his burn spells) but I think the logic was very flawed.
Game 2: I see double path to exile and an explosives in my 7 so I keep… He plays 2 creatures at 1 mana and I explosive those away. I can keep his creatures away and turn 4 I can play a Ajani-gold mane, followed by Elspeth next turn…
Round 3: Teammate with BGW pikula something.
Game 1: He has a start filled with disruption. After a few turns I don’t have any cards left, but he doesn’t have any pressure. I topdeck standstill, which he has to break and resolve a fof thereafter. He is a little manascrewed and I easily win from there.
Game 2: Turn 1 disruption again and a second turn wasteland. I am fearing for a manascrew myself but eventually I can attack his mana base again with double wasteland and my opponent is never really in the game.
Round 4 Teammate playing ANT:
Game 1: I have no force in my opening grip but I do have brainstorm and standstil. I decide to play (since I don’t expect him to go off without protection). I never see the very important force (or anything else besides spell snare) and lose after a few turns. I manage to attack the manabase a little but it is all for nought.
Game 2: I mulligan to 6 and I see explosives, meddling mage, dragon, swamp, wasteland and a blank (not a counter). I decide to keep on the merits of explosives set at 0 and wasteland. I play swamp and explosives at 0 (first playmistake since I wasn’t able to activate it anyway). He goes swamp -> go (there goes the wasteland plan). I draw and play tundra, passing the turn. He plays a fetchland and he is considering his options. Apparently he has everything in hand except for protection. He decides that because I played a swamp I am holding on to a force of will and passes. Next turn I draw another land and get play meddling mage naming ad nauseam. From that point on I slowly get control of the game and win.
Game 3: I draw a hand packing Fow, FoF, meddling mage and ethersworn canonist. Turn 2 canonnist (I need to use Fow to protect him from slaughter pact), turn 3 waste his dual meddling mage on tendrils. I follow up with a vindicate on one of his lands shortly thereafter.
Round 5 teammate with pikula/rock something: split. We decide to sell the box to the tournament organizer of our team.
In conclusion:
Cannonist is HUGE. It is so much better then meddling mage against combo because it disrupts the whole combo and not just one part. Meddling mage set at ad nauseam or tendrils of agony does nothing to stop them from resolving a silence/chant and proceeding to bounce or play around your mage. The color requirements are easier as well (although a minor issue).
Runed halo won’t be included again. Being an enchantment it is too vulnerable to hate.
Relic of progenitus was useless as well. I will probably swap it for extirpate which has its uses against combo as well.
The main deck was rock solid and I am very happy with my third explosives which came in the place of a 4th brainstorm.
Any comments are welcome of course :smile:
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thefreakaccident
Nice stab.
Anyways, Most players in my meta generally don't over-commit. And with stifles, wastelands, and dazes I can only usually cast and use my mass removal turns 6-7 anyways. Don't kid yourself by acting superior in any way, i'm just stating facts and perspectives.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...&postcount=748
Quote from above thread:
Quote:
Keep in mind, my metagame runs little to no mana-denial, and therefore I can afford to get a little greedy.
Which is it then T.Freak.A, either your meta seems to play ALOT of mana denial, or it doesn't play any at all.
Which is it? Or do you play with two different groups? Or are you playing these cards in an effort to disrupt your opponent and reach the lategame?:really:
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
My 'local' is a self-organized tournament that has between 8-16 ppl. Always has Thrash and Mer (usually 2 Thrash, 1-2 mer)
I also play in a completely different meta up in LA every month. (Have only Merfolk and Gobbos LD wise)
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jiaozy
If the "Post board bull shit" wasn't important.
I don't think you read my post at all. Nowhere in there did I say post board games were irrelevant.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Citrus-God
I don't think you read my post at all. Nowhere in there did I say post board games were irrelevant.
I thought the same thing but I wanted to see you say it.
While I do agree on some of the things you said. I really feel like your wrong about Canadian thresh. It's unfavorable for them, but the addition of spell pierce changes the pace of the game up a bit as well as the fact that you still worry about mongoose. Nothing changes the fact that mongoose is the absolute problem card in the match-up.
post board we add more paths and relics, but that doesnt change the fact that were still getting gripped and were still getting hammered by the goose bomb.
p.s. I really want to write the new primer.:)
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
hehe p.s.s. - small tourney report.
Went to fortress comics and games the other day. Steller performance. 1-2-1. I got boned twice with downpairings yet again. I have never been paired up or normal while playing there. Its absolutely astonishing. It smells and the prize support is terrible. Oh yeah and it has the most random meta i've ever played. To give you an idea it was a dredge on dredge finals.....
I decided to play cow in the 3rd cb slot, which ended up being a mistake as I played against burn round 4. . . . I apparently decided to play like a shitty player as well and not mull into wish g1. how amazing of me..... against ichorid I named horror with e.p. like i was supposed to. and the second one I slammed the following turn and like a duphous named horror again.... Yeah take that ichorid. ....:rolleyes:
So I played like crap, I think its the smell of the place.... Never going back there again.... ever.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Played the local tourney on Sunday, 25 people.
Round 1. Enchantress
G1: I didn't know what's he's playing, so I keep a good anti-aggro hand, with snare, wrath, some card draw. Turns out he's playing Enchantress, and a few turns later I'm facing 2x Presence, and a ass load of other permanents, including City of Soltitude. I draw a couple of cards, but no Explosives, and I scoop to Words of War quickly.
G2: I mull, keep a sucky hand with FoW, but no blue mana and just hope to beat him with my factory before he goes nuts. I FoW his Enchantress effect, apparently he had only one, draw into blue mana, drop Ajani, Snare another Enchantress, drop Meddling Mage on Presense, O-Ring away Moat and just beat in.
G3: He's never into the game, as I counter/remove everything, beating with Elspeth.
Round2. RGBWSA
G1: I manage to keep off his early agression, drop Humility, Elspeth and win.
G2: He's flooded, I snare his Survival, Counterspell his Witness, and just get there with trio of Planeswalkers.
Round3. Natural Order Survival
G1: He gets in a few beats with Tarmo, I counter Order, which he Witnesses back, he gets to Order again, but I Wrath the Progenitus away and win with Elspeth.
G2: I counter primal Order (!), snare Survival, drop Humility, which gets gripped, then find another and just kill/counter his every threat
Round 4 & 5. id
Top8. My opponent doesnt come.
Top4. Tempo thresh.
G1: Lone mongoose just gets there, I don't happen to draw into EE, Wrath, Elspeth, or enough factories, even though I digged through 25-30 cards.
G2: No mongoose there, Tarmogoyfs die to swords and Elspeth seals the deal.
G3: I manage to fend off the early assault, stabilising at 8 hit points, but he drops Needle on EE, and then on Elspeth. I manage to bring him to 2 with factories before he's forced to burn them out. I die some agonizing 15-20 turns later to double bolt (the last burn he had in library) and 1/1 mongoose (where he won counter-war on Wrath), not able to draw into O-Ring, Ajani, or another Factory. Bummer. Double needle sucks. And Spell Pierces are very annoying.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Have you guys seen the spoilers for the new Jace? It's pretty absurd.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=206164
Projections:
+2: Scry 1
?: Brainstorm
?: Unsummon
?: Exile the top half of target player's library. That player then shuffles his hand into his library.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
I don't see this card being played in landstill. The first and the last abilities are terrible and the third one is only good against mid-range decks with few threats, which are already ok to favorable matchups.
EDIT- Misread the last ability, I didn't notice the Mind Twist part. It might be ok, depending on the cost of the ultimate.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
If the impulse (since you can put cards on the bottom too) costs -1 I'm gonna kick both my fofs and my old jace out of my deck and play two of these guys, plus something cool in the 3rd slot.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Seems like it has potential in the control mirror, but its probably not main deck material.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RogueMTG
Seems like it has potential in the control mirror, but its probably not main deck material.
Why not? Old jace reads: Spend two turns drawing an extra card and one turn doing absolutely nothing. New Jace could read (if the ability is -1): Spend two turns going through your deck and drawing an extra card, and one turn doing a bit more than absolutely nothing.
Sounds good to me :)
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ectoplasm
Why not? Old jace reads: Spend two turns drawing an extra card and one turn doing absolutely nothing. New Jace could read (if the ability is -1): Spend two turns going through your deck and drawing an extra card, and one turn doing a bit more than absolutely nothing.
Sounds good to me :)
Just seems that at sorcery speed for 4 mana I'd rather be slamming down Elspeth or Humility and start winning. Old Jace didn't make the cut for me either. Keeping mana open is never a bad thing, I'd rather pay one U to brainstorm EOT than 2UU to brainstorm on my turn and let my opponent resolve something.
Obviously reusable card draw/filter is powerful (see: Top). But I just don't see it replacing FoF for me.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
FOF being instant speed makes it a stronger choice than this because of no protection imo. This looks like a strictly win-more option in all of the matchups that matter, since he's only good against a clear field.
EDIT: It makes a big difference how much unsummon costs. Because that's kinda protection...
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Aren't you guys sort of overhyping this card? I don't think its actually as amazing as everyone says. After all its like playing cryptic command. Landstill wouldn't need this since we already have so many swords and other removal effects that bounce wouldn't be relevant. There's elspeth too who makes blockers that later become win conditions vs. the bounce that won't help you win. I'd rather play just plain old brainstorm than a 4 mana brainstorm really. The good old brainstorm lets me keep 2 land hands in the hopes that after my 2nd land drop i could brainstorm to find more lands. 4 mana brainstorm isn't optimal. Opt may be useful to some extent but i don't think it's worth opening up a slot for. Maybe in walkerstill the new jace would be great. Infinite brainstorms if its a +x ability would be too good i think. We shall see..
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Well, most of us have been playing the old Jace for a while now. A Jace that can diliver Brainstorms instead of Draw-a-card in two out of three turns, and can protect itself for just 1 mana more is worth investigating.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Also don't forget he's got a multitude of abilities, his dream cache just being one of many. Having options (aka swiss army knives) is a good thing, even if you're going to spend most of his loyalty going through your deck.
There's gonna be times you'll be happy you can screw around with your opponent's library or bounce his tombstalkers/noughts, simply for resolving a jace.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
JACE
+2: Look at the top card of target player's library. You may put that card on the bottom of that player's library.
0: Draw three cards, then put two cards from your hand on top of your library.
-1: Return target Creature to it's owner's hand.
-12: Exile all cards from target player's library. That player shuffles his or her hand into his or her library.
LOYALTY = 3
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showt...206381&page=24
http://picasaweb.google.com/j.paul.j...35874588852210
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showp...&postcount=458
Card put together, sans middle piece (which has been worked out via wordsmiths and photoshop
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Nice. Should be pretty playable.
Who has some good ideas not to overload the 4 CC in this deck?
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
I guess the question is if he is better than any of the other options, or a combination of them (Old Jace, Top, FoF, Brainstorm)
-If you want a continuous brainstorm effect, Top offers something similar.
-With 4 mana open and a specific card needed, FOF does a better job.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
arebennian
I guess the question is if he is better than any of the other options, or a combination of them (Old Jace, Top, FoF, Brainstorm)
-If you want a continuous brainstorm effect, Top offers something similar.
-With 4 mana open and a specific card needed, FOF does a better job.
Jesus, Planeswalkers with 4 abilities? Holy fuck WOTC... :rolleyes:
Personally, I'm not so sure this Jace can be a staple in Landstill. There are already enough 4cc bombs as it is, and I would rather have Top, Bs, or FoF (:3::u: vs. :2::u::u:, the former will always be more consistently cast). All of those choices will not only smooth out your curve, but can be feasibly cast throughout the course of a game without making yourself incredibly vulnerable.
That said, the only thing that would lead me to believe that it has a spot in this archetype is what Ectoplasm said in it being able to bounce a Dreadnought/Stalker. I was also thinking along the lines of a Marit Lage Token or Iona.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Morbid-
Jesus, Planeswalkers with 4 abilities? Holy fuck WOTC... :rolleyes:
Personally, I'm not so sure this Jace can be a staple in Landstill. There are already enough 4cc bombs as it is, and I would rather have Top, Bs, or FoF (:3::u: vs. :2::u::u:, the former will always be more consistently cast). All of those choices will not only smooth out your curve, but can be feasibly cast throughout the course of a game without making yourself incredibly vulnerable.
That said, the only thing that would lead me to believe that it has a spot in this archetype is what Ectoplasm said in it being able to bounce a Dreadnought/Stalker. I was also thinking along the lines of a Marit Lage Token or Iona.
Of course, you'll never be cutting Top or Brainstorm from this deck for Jace 2.0. Most of us spend some slots on Jace Beleren and/or Fact or Fiction. (funny, I think that there are at least 10 pages filled in this thread with a FoF vs Jace debate) Jace Mindsculpor is the better option, I think. I really like the synergy with Standstill, by the way.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elf_Ascetic
Of course, you'll never be cutting Top or Brainstorm from this deck for Jace 2.0. Most of us spend some slots on Jace Beleren and/or Fact or Fiction. (funny, I think that there are at least 10 pages filled in this thread with a FoF vs Jace debate) Jace Mindsculpor is the better option, I think. I really like the synergy with Standstill, by the way.
-Jace 1.0 is at CMC 3 which is a big difference to CMC 4 (although not when the card seems much better). Besides most recent lists, on this site at least, don't play Jace 1.0 (most meta's seem to have alot of aggro and thus Jace just cantrips).
-Fiction finds you the answer straight away. Easier to cast. I'd like to think Jace 2.0 is better than FoF, but I think in alot of instances, he would be worse than FoF. I hope to be proven wrong.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
arebennian
-Jace 1.0 is at CMC 3 which is a big difference to CMC 4 (although not when the card seems much better). Besides most recent lists, on this site at least, don't play Jace 1.0 (most meta's seem to have alot of aggro and thus Jace just cantrips).
-Fiction finds you the answer straight away. Easier to cast. I'd like to think Jace 2.0 is better than FoF, but I think in alot of instances, he would be worse than FoF. I hope to be proven wrong.
This discussion has a very high "Is Tarmogoyf really better then Werebear? It does not tap for mana" potential.
Against Agro, Jace 2.0 is better then FoF:
- No pressure: Jace > FoF
- One creature: Jace > FoF (bounce, brainstorm, answer.)
- Multiple: FoF > Jace under two strict conditions:
1. you'll survive the attack
2. the answer is in slot 4, 5 or 6, because Jace lets you brainstorm 1-3.
That means that Jace is only worse then FoF in 50% of the times you cast FoF in (really) desperate search for an answer. The rest, Jace just shines.
Although, that's my prediction, still have to test it, of course.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
FOF is also instant speed. That's huge when you're keeping mana open to stay alive. If this boils down to anything, it boils down to whether you mind casting your 4cc draw bomb on your own turn or not.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
In my UWr landstill, I personally run 3 jace1.0, too good to play only 2. The comparison between fof and jace2.0 sounds good, I was looking for an excuse to run at least a copy of it MD. Not sure about its potential, though, still have doubts (i'll test it a bit tomorrow evening). It's abilities are all scrumbled: the brainstorm doesn't add counters but it's clearly more powerful in terms of cost/effect than jace1.0. The unsummon ability lets jace protect itself in a certain sense, but then to addo loyalty we are forced to use a semi-useless ability, which I'll almost always use on myself I think (unless I want to use the jace2.0-tunnel vision combo! :cool: no, wait, we're not playing edh! :laugh: ). the ultimate takes infinite to load and will probably be never used, although it's absolutely gamebreaking vs control decks (new jace doesn't die to ee@3, so if they are running no jace, i'd be happy to resolve him).
As far as what concerns Mu's, which ones does it improve, on paper? I see aggrocontrol Mu is strenghten, but maybe it's winmore (plus we shouldn't need another card to go into daze). It reall shines in control mirrors. It does not improve fast aggro MU, because at t4 we can't protect him with a stp. Iona, marit lage? Come on: if they haven't yet won on t4, or disarded jace or dazed it, they are in trouble anyway. A well timed wish for chain of vapor or capsize (two techs I've stuck on my sb since october) does the job better in this case. Nor it helps vs other combo decks: the cc4 is too much, it really disturbs me. Would've costed as the old jace, the choice would've been much clear.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
I'm considering cutting the Wishes for Vindicates again, to keep the "speed" this deck has.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
arebennian
That Jace is teh nutz!1
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gustha
but then to addo loyalty we are forced to use a semi-useless ability, which I'll almost always use on myself I think
I would not underestimate the +2, not to say that it's usually better than spamming Brainstorms, but it can certainly have its uses. For instance, if they have CB out with no top, it can clear the way for your spells. If they tap a Top to draw, he can get rid of the Top for good. If you get them into a bad situation, it can make them far less likely to draw outs. Let's say you're against Rg Goblins and have Humility+Elspeth in play. Their only out is Krosan Grip and you can't counter that, so it's a better play to check the top of their deck every turn for Grip than spend it Brainstorming. It can also mess with opposing Ponders, pull nifty tricks with things like Submerge, and plenty of other little things. It's nothing to dismiss.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
The new Jace is definitely amazing, but I would not run it over FoF. If anything, over the 4th BS and/or an Elspeth.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elf_Ascetic
This discussion has a very high "Is Tarmogoyf really better then Werebear? It does not tap for mana" potential.
Against Agro, Jace 2.0 is better then FoF:
- No pressure: Jace > FoF
- One creature: Jace > FoF (bounce, brainstorm, answer.)
- Multiple: FoF > Jace under two strict conditions:
1. you'll survive the attack
2. the answer is in slot 4, 5 or 6, because Jace lets you brainstorm 1-3.
That means that Jace is only worse then FoF in 50% of the times you cast FoF in (really) desperate search for an answer. The rest, Jace just shines.
Although, that's my prediction, still have to test it, of course.
- One creature: Jace > FoF (bounce, brainstorm, answer.)
Or against Zoo you just played a CMC4 Bounce spell if they are holding burn.
- Multiple: FoF > Jace under two strict conditions:
The instant gives you more options than I believe you are giving it credit.
The fact that he is UU and not U is a big deal too. Against decks which pack wasteland, you need to hit WWUU by turn 5-6, which isn't always a given. One to hit Jace, then to play WOG.
I do like Jace, but I expect him to be run as a singleton (as the third FoF rather than totally replacing it).
Like you said. Testing will prove all.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
i think that the new jace has a lot more potential in ultimate walker than in this deck. The mana cost is a big restraint because usually I'm going for double white first and then for the second blue. That means this card isn't going to get played until then. I do think that as a singleton it would work great though. Like an additional solution to a single problematic creature. If you cant swords it, bounce it, for a few turn until you find a permanent solution.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
whiteshepherdman
i think that the new jace has a lot more potential in ultimate walker than in this deck. The mana cost is a big restraint because usually I'm going for double white first and then for the second blue. That means this card isn't going to get played until then. I do think that as a singleton it would work great though. Like an additional solution to a single problematic creature. If you cant swords it, bounce it, for a few turn until you find a permanent solution.
What? I find it handy to actually cast my Counterspells in turn 2 and 3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arebennian
The fact that he is UU and not U is a big deal too. Against decks which pack wasteland, you need to hit WWUU by turn 5-6, which isn't always a given. One to hit Jace, then to play WOG.
You don't need WWUU in turn 5 or 6 either: You need (W/U)(W/U)(2), what is a huge difference. I'll let all you Fact or Fiction lovers rest for now, but please remind that a lot of us play Jace for 1UU now. This Jace doesn't change anything to colorrequirements there.
(I hardly have any manaissues btw. My base: 4/1/1 Fetch, 4/1/1 Duals, 7 colorless land, 4 basics and an Eternal Dragon. And of course, 2 Top and 4 BS to find them all.)
But anyway, let's do some testing first.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elf_Ascetic
You don't need WWUU in turn 5 or 6 either: You need (W/U)(W/U)(2), what is a huge difference. I'll let all you Fact or Fiction lovers rest for now, but please remind that a lot of us play Jace for 1UU now. This Jace doesn't change anything to colorrequirements there.
(I hardly have any manaissues btw. My base: 4/1/1 Fetch, 4/1/1 Duals, 7 colorless land, 4 basics and an Eternal Dragon. And of course, 2 Top and 4 BS to find them all.)
I wasn't really suggesting that you did. What I was suggesting is exactly what you are suggesting. I just didn't word it as eloquently.
My point still stands though. (W/U)(W/U)(2) is difficult to achieve. It mean that you have to either have 2plains and 2islands or one of each and access to a dual or two duals which certainly isn't a given against aggro packing Wasteland and running 7 colourless sources.
And now, yes, I agree, to the table to PLAYTEST!!! :-)
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Elf_Ascetic
I'm considering cutting the Wishes for Vindicates again, to keep the "speed" this deck has.
Haha! I like that. :laugh:
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So yeah, comparing Jace 2.0 to FoF/Jace 1.0 appears to be the right approach to evaluate its power.
Personally, I've been more than happy with the old Jace, playing him as a 2/3-of in a SpeedWalkerStill shell. FoF never felt like a wincondition, while Jace seems to win the game quite frequently if he resolves.
So for me it's rather an old Jace VS. new Jace issue.
I haven't tested him yet, but I'm a 100% positive that this guy is insane.
Being able to cast a free BS every turn, without even having to spend loyalty counters? Heck, I'd most likely include him as a 2-of even if this was his only ability!
I'll even go as far as to predict that he'll be adapted by just as many other archetypes as Elspeth, only with a little less delay.
Who knows maybe Lorescale Coatl will be playable afterall. :tongue:
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@ Gustha:
Yeah, I also like the fact that Jace the Mindsculptor is almost EE prove. It's happened a couple of times that I had to blow up my own just to get rid of opposing B2Bs and stuff.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
I don't think the UU is a big deal. Good Wasteland/LD players will keep you off WW and let you have blue, because (to date) some of the best spells in the deck require WW. If anything, CMC 4 is more prohibitive than UU, if only because most Landstill builds are already quite heavy at CMC 4 and decks like Merfolk can easily keep you off your spells that cost 4 through Wasteland, Cursecatcher and Daze.
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Re: [DTW] UW(x) Landstill
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Misplayer
I don't think the UU is a big deal. Good Wasteland/LD players will keep you off WW and let you have blue, because (to date) some of the best spells in the deck require WW. If anything, CMC 4 is more prohibitive than UU, if only because most Landstill builds are already quite heavy at CMC 4 and decks like Merfolk can easily keep you off your spells that cost 4 through Wasteland, Cursecatcher and Daze.
Touche
