14 initial mana producing lands with fetches and duals is still pretty ballsy considering the heavy pretournament hype for tempo decks. Did you at any time want to play the blue splash for Intuition rather than the black one?
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14 initial mana producing lands with fetches and duals is still pretty ballsy considering the heavy pretournament hype for tempo decks. Did you at any time want to play the blue splash for Intuition rather than the black one?
Malatesta played 4 tropical islands.(so he needed to mulligan more)
and also had 3 intuition and 4 vengevine mainboard also the fauna shaman engine which
i think is more mana hungry in general to make it work
Anyway i think u can at least cut 1 land for a tutarable elvish archdruid to have an out to plague(which with merfolk's dominance and goblin's comeback will be back on sboards) and an another aggro plan.
IF u cut one land u have 7 fetches + 4 forest=11 solid
lands for your starting seven to be mullgian proof (David vo played 11 forests +1 cradle)
About his mana lords we have to say that he played only 2 GSZ and u play 4 (which is correct) so u can fetch priest and archdruid and u also play 4 cradle (which are like free uncounterable lords) so u still have many mana sources.
My final thoughts:
I really like the list.we can say that is an upgrade to combo elves but i would really cut 1 fetch for 1 archdruid to be fetched (and abused with 4 quirions and 4 wirewoods)
@Infinitium: Are you trying to claim that 14 may have been too low? The tempo decks have mostly cut stifle by this point so having fetches isn't as risky as before and having 4 basics with 8 fetches protects from wasteland. I did consider the U splash and tested briefly with Malatesta's list but found it too fair for my tastes. Fauna Shaman was slow and vulnerable to removal and I did not like the lack of GSZ. Also, running 4 trops made the matchup against merfolk considerably worse. I conisdered the Intuitions for the board but had I done that the Cabal Therapies would've had to become Mindbreak Traps or something similar which I did not think was worth it although I think Intuition is an upgrade over Buried Alive.
@Astrix: I would agree that his list is more mana hungry than mine, but with his increased number of mana creatures I still see 18 lands as the number you want. If Plague is a real problem, I could see getting an archdruid in the deck, but probably just over the Priests. I don't agree that merfolk is dominating by any stretch. It has been the most popular deck because it was the easy choice for winner after Misstep came in and is relatively inexpensive but I think that will change as the metagame adjusts. Goblins while placing 3 players in day 2 did not do well on the day, even the player who started 11-0 finished 11-4, the other 2 started at 8-1 and finished 10-5 for a combined day 2 record of 6-12. A small sample size for sure but I doubt goblins will be a large part of the metagame moving forward. Engineered Plague isn't even that effective against merfolk since they have 12+ lords to fight it. I'm just not worried enough about that card to run an Elvish Archdruid. The Vengevines and Beast Withins give me plenty of options against it if necessary.
I think infinitum wants to claim the opposite (:P) that you play a low mana count !
Nah, 14 is perfectly fine imo. Early land destruction backed up by even modest amounts of removal tend to be the worst form of disruption in my experience though since I can't just get Symbiote/Glimpse going and bounce back without permanent mana sources. And Wasteland/Stifle is still more prevalent than Sinkhole/Smallpox (granted it only really sees play in TA right now but still).
I can see Merfolk being a hit to the blue splash, but Quirion Ranger seem like it could make it bearable somehow. Cabal Therapy versus Spell Pierce or whatever I cannot really comment on because I don't like playing with either, especially not as the only form of disruption.
@Infinitium: I never mentioned Spell Pierce, I would've gone with Mindbreak Trap, but both are definitely worse than Therapy, although the latter is certainly more difficult to play. I agree that with only one Tropical Island, Lord of Atlantis shouldn't be an issue, but Malatesta was running 4 trops with only 3 Quirion Ranger, which certainly makes it an issue.
No i think 4 cabal therapies are much better than spell pierce as a combo answer.
For one cabal can be flashbacked easily in our deck.
Also cabal can hit creaures that played in combo(painter's servant etc...)
Also cabal can hit 2 or more cards and with flashback even more.
I'm wondering what to cut to board in the Vengevines?
Obviously you didn't read al the info ross wrote... go to page 90, SB info it's there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpfang
Any1 seen the new elf legend from new commander decks wizards will print?
Its an 1 coloroles 1 blue 1 green : when a creature u control does dmg draw a card.
We can Green sun zenith it and could be like ancestrall recall in our deck.refilling our hand (so we can
keep going if mass removal happenes)
I'll definitely be testing him as a tutor target to start, just not sure what to cut or of when he'd be my target of choice. It would not be prudent to just run your guys into goyfs etc against the aggro and midrange decks unless you had many more creatures than they did, in which case it's likely you can just tutor for regal force and the control decks can simply remove him before your guys deal damage. (really most decks can do this but control decks are more likely to have the mana up most turns) I always love cards like these so I'm excited, but I'll remain skeptical for now.
Hi, I placed 4th out of 26 this weekend. My decklist was:
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Priest of Titania
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Llanowar elves
4 Quirion Ranger
2 Birchlore rangers
1 Fyndhorn elves
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Regal Force
3 Living Wish
4 Summoner’s pact
4 Glimpse of nature
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Verdant catacombs
4 Misty rainforest
6 Forest
SIDE
1 Gaea’s craddle
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Masticore
1 Regal Force
1 Mirror entity
1 Joraga Warcaller
1 Vexing shusher
4 Thorn of amethyst
3 Krosan grip
Matchups
Round 1 - Enchantress: 2-0 Easy pairing, unless they land a turn 2 Humility.
Round 2 - Merfolk MonoU 2-1 He kept an awesome hand in game 1. MM+FOW+3 lands+All lords. MonoU Merfolks should be an easy pairing, even with MM.
Round 3 - Show & Attack: 2-0 I kept strong hands both games, and was lucky to win through FOWs. He was going to win both games in the next turn.
Round 4 - Team America 1-1 Game 1 Brought him down to 12, then he controlled. Game 2, after some crazy shenanigans, and good plays, I was able to win through 2 FOW, 2 MM, 1 Pernicious, long game. We couldn't finish game 3.
Round 5 - Dredge 0-2 He won both games on turn 2. The sad thing is that I had a turn 2 win hand in G1, but he started playing. Didn't have any side against dredge.
Top8 - Show & Attack (again): 2-0 I combo turn 2, no counters. Game 2, he plays a turn 2 Show & Tell, which lands me an Archdruid that wins my game on my turn 2 ^^
Top4 - Dredge (again): 1-2 This time I start, and combo turn 2. Game 2, he starts, and on his second turn, plays 2 Therapies on me, and land Iona on turn 3. Game 3, I keep a super fast hand but with no tutor-wincon, so I land 6 1/1 elves and 1 Archdruid on turn 2, and pray that he doesn't combo, and I win aggro, but he kills me in his turn, with about 20 zombies.
So, I only lost to the same Dredge twice, in the tournament, maybe I should have brought grave-hate, oh well.
Thoughts & Comments
I love the 8 Lords, specially now with MM around, they are extraordinary.
Intuition/Buried Alive + Vengevine would have made the Team America matchup easier, but I don't own any Vengevines...
Maybe the 4 Thorn of amethyst should be 1 Glowrider + 1 Gaddock Teeg, saving 2 spots.
Viridian Zealot should be Sylvok Replica, but I didn't get one.
This list is pretty much the most combo oriented that I can think of right now, considering that we cannot rely so heavily on Glimpse since MM.
This deck is extremely powerful, but you need to play it for a long time, to learn how to take many decisions, as in what CMC 1 cast first, hands to keep, etc...
Just a few questions about your report NihilObstat:
1-Why do you like Sylvok Replica over Viridian Zealot? They both effectively cost 4 and I don't see many situations where you would pre-emptively wish for either one, which would make the 1 mana you need to leave up for Replica a significant advantage over Zealot. However, when you board them in, Zealot is much better since you have Pacts to find it and it's an elf when combo-ing.
2-My objection to the 8 lord plan is mostly due to the vulnerability to spot removal inherent in relying on them for mana. Do you not find this to be the case? Also, with only 13 lands don't you have to rely on one drops for the mana to cast lords, especially archdruid?
3-Why are both War Caller and Mirror Entity necessary in the board? They both appear to support an aggro plan and thus seem to me to be redundant.
As for the issues you had with dredge, perhaps you could board a creature designed to blow up bridges or something like loaming shaman in addition to some traditional graveyard hate. I would suggest cutting the KGrips unless Humility is an issue since there seems to be very little counterbalance around.
Sylvok dodges E-Plague, and tutoring for it with Pact is irrelevant when it's purely a wish-board. It also plays through Lodestone Golem, which is on occasion relevant. I'm assuming Mirror Entity is there for the infinite combo, not just to support an aggro plan (though it can do both).
The biggest advantage is that Sylvok can be cast the same turn as wish with a canonist on the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
Makes sense, I probably should've thought about it in terms of what specific cards you're answering, as E Plague and Canonist are probably 1 and 2 on that list.
@Bakofried: With a 4 Pact/3 Wish split it would seem to me to be better to bring in any singleton green creature after boarding in so as to effectively add an additional copy as long as all the Pacts are staying in. This isn't automatic, but as long as the opposing deck doesn't have too much (Read: multiple sweepers/tons of spot removal) to punish you for casting Pact aggressively, making your outs cost 2 less and adding one effective copy results in a net gain.
How are folks dealing with Team America? Seems like a rough matchup, for sure...
Vengevines. It's also a good way to deal with any base-:u::b: disruption decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
1- Many people have answered your doubts on Replica, and I bet you understand them. I've already taken advantage of both situations, costing one less to Golem and being castable through Canonist, in actual games so I highly recommend it.Quote:
Originally Posted by theross
2- The 8 lord plan is necessary in a Mental Misstep metagame, which is everyones, ofcourse. We don't rely on them to add mana, but the opponents might think we do. So if we cast a 2nd turn Priest or Archdruid, they will FOW-Exile it, and so we are one step closer of safely casting Glimpse, Heritage, anything more freely. Also if you look at what I've cut for them, which are Fyndhorns & Birchlores, you see that I've replaced with much stronger cards. Sure this list doesn't combo that much on turn 2, but it has an incredibly strong-consistant clock for turn 3 and 4.
3- Warcaller is probably the best answer against E. Plague, Firespout & Pyroclasm. He is not a totally fix spot, but he is good.
Mirror entity on the other hand is my 1 turn wincon. I run him over Emrakul, because I found that many games I didn't get to 17 mana. He also has an infinite mana combo, and Aniquilator is a lot smaller edge, than missing mana to cast Emmy.
4- Krosan Grip goes against E.Plague, CTop, Pernicious Deed, Moat, Ethersworn Canonist, and many more. All of these cards really f*** us up, and are all protected by counters, or in the case of Deed, it is better not to let them respond... ^^
As I said, against Team America, and any other hard-control, disruption decks, Vengevine + (Intuition, Buried Alive) is probably the way to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
How is the combo elves with the new set of decks? Can Elves still run with mistep in almost all blue decks?