[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

I'm still working on this since I'm sick of playing burn/sligh/all out aggro I punt combo while I'm shuffling so without further ado I would like comments on this pile :

Lands - 20
4x Scrubland
9x Fetchlands
3x Badlands
3x Swamp
1x Plains

Creatures - 16
4x Gatekeeper of malikar
4x Dark Confidant
4x Jotun Grunt
4x Steppe Lynx

Instant- 8
4x Lightning bolt
4x Path to exile

Scorcery- 16
4x Duress
4x Hymn to tourach
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Reanimate
2x Rift Bolt


Sideboard - 15
4x Faerie Macabre
4x Vindicate
4x Mindbreak trap
3x I'm not sure yet

With that build, I'd almost suggest run Weathered Wayfarer with the Lynx. You can crack a fetch then activate his ability to get more fetches to abuse, also makes it easy to splash Karakas or Wastes, Maze in SB?

Maybe...
+4 Wayfarer
-1 reanimate
-2 rift
-1 grunt

Maybe even try to fit in like 2x Jitte, cut a couple Duress. That's all I got.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lord_Cyrus

Well if you notice I said the manabase needed work. I'm not claiming anything for this deck yet. And yes it could be described as a form of Aggro-Rock. I have played Eva Green in the past, as well as many different forms of The Rock, but I can't get past the fact that all these decks are still losing hard to the top tier strategies. I'm trying something different here, the major new element being KoTR.

---

KotR has been in The Rock forever, it was Rock lists here that prompted me to buy them back when they were $1 each

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lord_Cyrus

If your B/W list is performing so great, I'd like to see it. It's also one thing to claim good tournament results, but quite another to back them up with hard data..

---

Honestly I totally agree with this. I haven't posted any results with the deck in a long time because I moved and there just aren't any regular Legacy events here, although as I said before I did win a local vintage event with it, against Oath, some Painterstone/Tinker deck, and UWG Fish. Before I moved, once I finalized on the list I posted before, I was coming in 2-6 pretty regularly. Not super results, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm bad for making stupid play errors, and it took me a while to really figure out how the deck needs to be played.

That said, I've been really happy with how the deck has shaped up, and now that I have a better feel for it, I'll be taking it to the 5K in Denver, and I'll see how it does. I'll be watching tournament reports closely to see if it's worth pulling the Canonists from the SB in favor of Damnation or possibly just Smother. If I ever get around to installing a Windows in a VM and then MWS, I'd be happy to put it together and do some testing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EssKay

KotR has been in The Rock forever, it was Rock lists here that prompted me to buy them back when they were $1 each

---

I think he meant new to Deadguy Ale.. not that they were new to The Rock. :wink:

Here's an article about the SCG 5k Seattle

I played max round 2 with deadguy. It was an ok day. I went 3-0 from the get-go, only to be ate by ANT. I played Jeff Cunningham's Reanimator the next round. I should have won, however the "heart" of the cards wasnt with me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mystical_Jackass

I think he meant new to Deadguy Ale.. not that they were new to The Rock. :wink:

---

That's correct... I haven't been keeping up with The Rock for a few years now, so I had no clue they were using KoTR. In this respect my "tech" does seem kinda old. I still think it could work, but I'm not sure how. I'll keep working on this one, but honestly my main energy now is going to be towards figuring out the new meta with the decks that I am actually playing at tournaments.

Banning Mystical Tutor may have finally made this deck viable again. ANT was a pretty terrible matchup for us, so maybe things will get easier for Deadguy to live at the top tables now. I may disagree with what the DCI did, but if it can revive a deck I loved, maybe that's not so terrible. We'll see what happens.

@Cyrus: You should really check out the Rock thread and post your list there too then. They may have better advice for Bgw lists.

@Iare: Why splash red for 6 spells here? Bolt is always nice but Flame Rift? Also I just don't see the point of reanimate, especially if you plan on keeping Jotun Grunt in play for a while. You'd be better off running Vindicate maindeck and Leyline over Macabre

I don't know why everyone seems to be giving up on Tombstalker...just because of Bob? Honestly I'd take the 8 life to have a 4-turn clock with evasion that shrinks goyfs and doesn't afraid of Counterbalance. Alternatively, most Deadguy lists have lots of spot removal, how about Abyssal Persecutor?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EssKay

@Cyrus: You should really check out the Rock thread and post your list there too then. They may have better advice for Bgw lists.

@Iare: Why splash red for 6 spells here? Bolt is always nice but Flame Rift? Also I just don't see the point of reanimate, especially if you plan on keeping Jotun Grunt in play for a while. You'd be better off running Vindicate maindeck and Leyline over Macabre

I don't know why everyone seems to be giving up on Tombstalker...just because of Bob? Honestly I'd take the 8 life to have a 4-turn clock with evasion that shrinks goyfs and doesn't afraid of Counterbalance. Alternatively, most Deadguy lists have lots of spot removal, how about Abyssal Persecutor?

---

Pesecutor hmm... he's good with gatekeeper, vindicate, path/swords. What about Cabal Therapy?

Also, about Reanimate. Unearth is better.

Persecutor is interesting... but 4 cc I find scary in this format. Any 4 cc has a lot to live up to. He's been good in Ext for sure, just not convinced I suppose. Of all the options to get rid of him, Cabal therapy /innocent blood are probably the best two out there.

Tombstalker is amazing. Bob (can be) even more amazing. Together they create all kinds of terrible... so many people have tried and failed. In a format with a lot of Zoo and burn, Tombstalker probably wins, though, just for having a fat ass of Moti proportions. And he does cause a lot of testicular goyf shrinkage muahaha!

Esskay I've been successfully running Magic Work Station in Wine under linux for some time. The only issue is the cards don't render quite right but it is usuable without a virtual machine, just scroll mouse over cards and read the popup of what they are.

Weathered wayfarer was a great card many years ago and It still is in slower formats like EDH or multiplayer magic. I just think its far to slow for tournament legacy .

Reanimate > unearth because for the most part you want to steal your opponents goyf or knight of reliquary rox war monk or renaimators fatties ect ect ..

The red splash is mainly for bolt, this was actually a metagame call in response to sligh/zoo decks. But, I've found bolt being good against just about every deck in the format (barring stax where it sucks) Rift bolt really hasn't been spectacular, but chain lightning is a liablity against red decks and there alot of those around me.

As For the deck I find tombstalker more important than bob as suggested above, and I missed dark ritual too much from the last list. This is what I'm going to test.

Revised Testing list
Lands - 20
4x Scrubland
9x Fetchlands
3x Badlands
3x Swamp
1x Plains

Creatures - 14
4x Gatekeeper of malikar
4x Tombstalker
4x Steppe Lynx
2x Nyxathid

Instant- 12
4x Dark Ritual
4x Lightning bolt
4x Path to exile

Scorcery- 14
4x Duress
4x Hymn to tourach
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Reanimate



Sideboard - 15
4x Faerie Macabre
4x Vindicate
4x Mindbreak trap
3x Pithing needle <-- still not sure this is the right choice but I'm gonna try it mainly to name sensei's diving top

Iare: are you running it with Wine?

Esskay: Yes under ubuntu 10.04 using the latest development version of wine from the software center.
Edit if you are running on a mac you can probably get the latest development release and compile it or whatever you mac people do =/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iare

As For the deck I find tombstalker more important than bob as suggested above, and I missed dark ritual too much from the last list. This is what I'm going to test.

Revised Testing list
Lands - 20
4x Scrubland
9x Fetchlands
3x Badlands
3x Swamp
1x Plains

Creatures - 14
4x Gatekeeper of malikar
4x Tombstalker
4x Steppe Lynx
2x Nyxathid

Instant- 12
4x Dark Ritual
4x Lightning bolt
4x Path to exile

Scorcery- 14
4x Duress
4x Hymn to tourach
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Reanimate



Sideboard - 15
4x Faerie Macabre
4x Vindicate
4x Mindbreak trap
3x Pithing needle <-- still not sure this is the right choice but I'm gonna try it mainly to name sensei's diving top

---

Not bad I guess. Taking out the Vindicates & Bob and/or Sinkholes, it's really shifted to more of a Sui Ale or Eva White for better or for worse. You'll lose out in the CA taking out Confidant and running ritual, which is sorta an all out strategy.. they get removed your in a really crappy position, they don't you put them on a really quick clock. :smile:

I actually have a pretty descent idea, since you're running the ritual I'd really swap the Nyxathid out for Nantuko Shades. Not only do they make better work of mid-late game rituals but they come out quicker and I don't really think you're running enough discard, honestly, to make Nyxathid maximum effective. That's all I got, rest looks good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lord_Cyrus

That's correct... I haven't been keeping up with The Rock for a few years now, so I had no clue they were using KoTR. In this respect my "tech" does seem kinda old. I still think it could work, but I'm not sure how. I'll keep working on this one, but honestly my main energy now is going to be towards figuring out the new meta with the decks that I am actually playing at tournaments.

Banning Mystical Tutor may have finally made this deck viable again. ANT was a pretty terrible matchup for us, so maybe things will get easier for Deadguy to live at the top tables now. I may disagree with what the DCI did, but if it can revive a deck I loved, maybe that's not so terrible. We'll see what happens.

---

If the changes really do impact the popularity of AnT and Reanimator, I'll probably be dropping Thoughtseize for Inquisition of Kozilek, which is way better in the Zoo matchup. Might also find some room in the SB for perish, since every other creature that sees play in Legacy is green now. Do we have any answers to the Lands matchup?

Extirpate is some good, last I heard. Barring them drawing into their lone Smokestack or a Scapeshift or something random without anything that resembles a draw engine, you should be ok if you can resolve it.

The best answer to 43 Lands, in my experience, is Extirpate/Leyline. Our best chance is to shut down their loam and crush their Mazes and Factories with our LD suite. If they get to loaming and gain significant CA from it, you're better off scooping to save time. The most frustrating thing for me about playing against a (quality) Lands player is how they abuse the time limit to their advantage. Winning against them always seems to take way too long, and if they can sneak by with a draw in what can be a difficult matchup for them, they will do it every time. Sneaky bastards! ;)

Ok so, I've resurrected my Deadguy and sleeved it up for testing, with some interesting results. The deck isn't so bad as I remembered - I think in the past I didn't play it very well perhaps.

I've come to a few conclusions:

(1) Momma IS the real sickness against Aggro!! Oh my god, how could I be so blind for so long. Mother of Runes belongs in this deck, she rapes and destroys as literally the best 1 drop in Legacy (maybe tied with Nacatl, but I don't think so). If they can burn/path her, they must do so. Otherwise she will crush them... In my test games she was MVP, the best turn 1 play possible, and one of the 3 best topdecks (others were Jotun Grunt and Stoneforge Mystic)

(2) Sinkhole is pretty poor unless backed up by an early Wasteland. I don't know what else to say here... Sinkhole's stock has been plummeting for quite some time.

(3) Stoneforge Mystic is probably a better 2-for-1 than Hymn against any deck playing creatures. I think any decent player knows that there is an inverse relationship between time passed and the power of discard. In later turns, drawing a Hymn against zoo is much the same as drawing a dead card. Stoneforge, on the other hand, rocks the world unless she is stifled. But stifle has been moving out of the format for quite some time now.

(4) Deathmark is an outstanding sideboard option atm. So is Perish. Perish is absolutely crushing, and one of the (few) major reasons I can think of to keep this deck B/W only.

(5) Vindicate is either amazing or terrible, depending on the matchup and the situation. Usually these days, it's terrible. When effective threats cost SO little (Nacatl, Steppe Lynx) Vindicate is an awful tempo loss that puts you into the tank.

That's all I've got for now... I'll post a list and some more thoughts later.

Quick question, has anyone tried Stillmoon Cavalier? Great against removal and wear jitte beautifully! I will post my full list later, just wanted to know what y'all thought. Thanks!

Given that Bolts are almost as common as Swords for removal, and that Smother doesn't see much play, I'd honestly rather have Vampire Nighthawk. His lifelink and deathtouch are amazing for his cost.

I tried running Mom, it was the worst decision I ever made. Zoo always had the removal for her before I could use her, and every time I wished I had something that did more than just sit there and take a Bolt.

I'm OK with her getting bolted. It's a tempo loss for them, and means one less bolt headed for our other creatures. But that sounds like poor luck... other similar decks find her such a house, like DnT. I don't think people would be talking about that deck very much without Momma. There are other good interactions in the deck, but she holds it all together.