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That is one bad bitch = That is an attractive woman
Bad Ass = Cool guy, regardless of the state of his ass
I feel sick = I do not feel well
That shit was siiiick!! = That shit was very cool. Also that shit was probably not poop. It was likely an event of some kind.
English is crazy!
On topic comment - keep your ears pointy in DC, guys.
I tied for first place (even down to every tiebreaker) at 2-1-1 in a five-man Vintage tourney yesterday with Elves. I bring it up here because the metagame was actually very Legacy-like, and I was trying out a different take on the little green men. The decks in the tourney were: 5-color dredge; UW angels (fully powered); zombie-themed Dark Times; and merfolk with a transformational sideboard into Standstill.
Here's the list I ran, more or less (and yes, it's 61 cards):
Big Mana Elves
The mana dorks (17)
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Heritage Druid
2 Llanowar Elves
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Elvish Mystic
4 Priest of Titania
2 Elvish Archdruid
The utility dorks (12)
3 Wirewood Symbiote
2 Quirion Ranger
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Nettle Sentinel
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Quasali Pridemage
Card draw (5)
1 Regal Force
4 Glimpse of Nature
Tutor (7)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Natural Order
2 Weird Harvest
Win Cons (4)
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
1 Mirror Entity
1 Umbral Mantle
Mana (14)
1 Savanna
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Forest
1 Mox Emerald
Sideboard (was mostly irrelevant, but had more Oozes, Thalia, etc)
The concept here was to play the aggressive role but have so many options that an opponent cannot simply lock you out with Plague or Chalice and move on. The deck's goal is to land a Priest or Archdruid and then go bonkers with mana production. I won in various contexts by hardcasting Craterhoof, going off with GSZ and Heritage druid, beating with Umbral Mantle on a dude, beating with a big Ooze through two Plagues naming Elves, etc. Here are some of my thoughts on playing this:
1. As you all probably can see, this list has huge problems with fast combo decks. My only loss was to Dredge, but it wasn't even close. Cages in the board might help, as well as more black splash for thoughtseize out of the board as is traditional.
2. Umbral Mantle is better than Staff of Domination. Like Staff, it goes infinite with Priest or Archdruid fairly easily, but it does so at cheaper cost. Once you hit four elves total, Mantle means all of your Elves are 1,000,000 / 1,000,000 during your attack step. Unlike Staff, it is a great card in the aggro matchup even if you do not have an active Priest. Mantle on a mana dork or Arbor essentially reads: 2: +2/+2. That's actually really good.
3. I like the Weird Harvest plan when it came up, but it didn't come up often. The idea here is if you have a Priest active with a few elves, you Harvest for 2 or 3: a Ranger or two and some massive monster. You then plop the Ranger, untap the Priest with the Rangers to generate massive mana, and then deposit the monster. Harvest allows you to generate mana, which makes it potentially better than GSZ in some circumstances, and it doesn't require you to bin one of your elves, which makes it better than Natural Order in others. Allowing your opponent to tutor was a problem once, however, when they went to get a Snapcaster allowing them to flashback a counterspell to stop my monster. Finally, I am going to go get my hands on a Mistcutter Hydra and try that out, because he gets around exactly this problem in exactly this circumstance.
Honestly, you can just take the basic list and win the tourney instead of running a Priest/Archdruid-Budget-List.
I joked about playing Elves in the BoM Vintage Mainevent (joked with Julian about it if I remember correctly) but was stupid to do not so and instead was setting up trades. However, I did run the list for fun in a Proxy-Vintage tourney after returning from Paris out of curiosity ... It's plain nuts :D
@Language upfucks:
You won't be surprised if I tell you, that in german the problem is exactly the same xF
Hah, the list I was using is many things, but I wouldn't call it "budget."Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Anyway, yeah, I've run traditional elf combo in Vintage before. The problem is that the traditional list essentially tosses up a GG to Chalice at 1, since you are very hard pressed to get your mana going without one drops to get to your later drops. This list, with more 2-cc elf dorks, mitigates that somewhat.
Similarly, if you have essentially one plan to victory, the opponent knows exactly how to take you apart. My working theory with this brew is that you have many more angles to exploit. I won by randomly topdecking all of the following: Umbral Mantle, Glimpse of Nature, Craterhoof Behemoth, etc. An opponent who boards to answer your first game deck is not necessarily prepared for the next one.
Sorry for the double post but here's my response to a question regarding UWR delver in my recent tourney report for those struggling with the match-up.
"The main differences between American delver and RUG are clock speed and graveyard reliance. American delver packs more spot removal (bolt, STP, and jitte) but is generally slower due to jitte requiring 4 mana. It also has 3-drops (GoST) whereas most RUG builds don't. Typically, the only card from patriot that relies on the graveyard is grim lavamancer (maybe snapcaster mage too). Meanwhile, both mongoose and goyf are heavily affected by the presence of scavenging ooze.
Fortunately for us, there is a lower chance of seeing submerge and rough//tumble from patriot post-board. As a result, I would board as follows: -2 heritage, -2 nettle, -1 quirion, -1 hoof, +3 decay, +1 sliver, +1 NO, +1 prog. Sliver is included instead of ooze to counter their jitte. Though ooze would help against lavamancer, I tend to avoid diluting the combo too much. Furthermore, the life gain from ooze isn't as relevant too. Because of how much spot removal patriot has and their slower clock, I think progenitus makes more sense in this matchup than against RUG."
For reference, my boarding strategy against RUG delver is: -2 heritage, -2 nettle, +3 decay, +1 ooze. I advocate decays as opposed to therapies because the scariest delver hands involve delver + plenty of disruption. Decay kills all of their creatures (except GoST) and any relevant artifacts. This is brutal for them as most delver variants only run 12 to 14 creatures. In my personal experience, having 18 non-arbor lands really shines in the delver matchups too because their wastelands and stifles don't hit as hard. Building the mana base is generally the toughest part with regards to delver. This is why I don't board out any quirion rangers against RUG. With regards to meekstone, I think it's a great card against RUG delver. That said, I think there are worse match-ups (i.e. miracles) to dedicate those sb slots to. On that note, I look forward to Julian explaining how he approached the match-up back-to-back-to-back times. Congrats again!
Quote:
Originally Posted by limbo
Yup, both languages have the same problem; thing is, its slang. I don't think 'is shit' and 'the shit' were meant to be used in the way they have been the last 10 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Yeah.. Thanks for the english lesson. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by limbo
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elvish Mystic
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Fyndhorn Elves
3 Heritage Druid
1 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
1 Priest of Titania
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Progenitus
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Viridian Shaman
2 Dryad Arbor
Lands (17)
1 Forest
2 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Gaea's Cradle
Spells (11)
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order
Sideboard
2 Meekstone
1 Scavenging Ooze?
1 Priest of Titania
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Natural Order
3 Thoughtseize
Play this in D.C. Progenitus is a house right now. No more perish and sidesteps TNN with a jitte. Priest is good again because Sneak and Show is the best combo deck. Everything else is pretty standard. People who play less than three llanowar elves are crazy. Its just your best possible turn 1 play, nbd. Also, Ruric Thar is cute, but only really good against Infernal Tutor. Not good enough for an entire slot IMO.
With regard to Elves in Vintage, I recall a certain tournament report. Was from Matt Elias I think.
"I cast Llanowar Elves. He casts Ancestral Recall, a slightly stronger card from the same set."
Thus you run playsets of the green tinker, Ancestral Recall and Tolarian Academy ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
Still toying with some ideas at the moments. My MB is still not fixed. Probably gonna do that tonight. The plan is to attack the grinders and test the overall meta, get my head back into game mode since that 17 hrs drive dumbed me to a whole new level, and foil some more shit. Ill post a pic of my actual list tonight.
I got 1 Bye already, so I don't really have to do the grinders, but 2 byes is better.
Anybody else is sleeving elves for today?
Ill be wearing a green hoodie with a HOMIES snapback ball cap.
Just come to say hi! and sign my plain THESOURCE playmat!
I'll be there tomorrow playing elves. Going to be wearing a plain red t-shirt but I'll have a Missouri back pack on.
Good luck, man. Show them that the pointy-eared hoofmeisters got it going on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayradis
Found my store sweater. Will wear a black Quantum Frontier Games & Comics hoodies w/ a black logo. Look for a dark blue THESOURCE playmat
Good luck guys! Post updates if and when you can!
I will be there with my elves this weekend.
as of right now my SB is looking like this
1 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Thoughtsieze
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Quasali Pridemage
1 Ooze
1 Absolute Law(possibly Ruric)
I really wouldn't mind fitting Meekstone into the board
@Chrandersen a few notes/questions about your list. I do like the list and can really get behind Progenitus main but why the switch to the Priest, you mentioned Sneak & Show, but why specifically does sneak & shows popularity have an affect on playing Priest? Your list is pretty close to what you ran at your last SCG Event, how did the priest work out? did you ever hate seeing it?
Also I noticed that you only have one basic, I used to have that but switched to 2 basics after some bad tourneys(no mana) is it worth playing 61 cards for the 18th land?
Lastly, the cut of the 4th Heritage Druid, did that seem to hinder you ever I have always thought of that card to be pretty essential to have 4 of.
Hello! Here is my current Elves list.
Creatures [31]
2 Dryad Arbor
1 Llanowar Elves
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Fyndorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
Sorceries [11]
3 Natural Order
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Lands [18]
3 Forest
1 Taiga
2 Bayou
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
SB [15]
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Progenitus
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Natural Order
1 Ruric Thar, the UnBowed
3 Thoughtseize
Now I'm thinking of switching over to a more toolboxy main deck to try to have better matchups against the field at the cost of being less explosive. My tentative idea is
Creatures [32]
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Birchlore Rangers
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
1 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Quirion Ranger
4 Wirewood Symbiote
4 Elvish Visionary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Ruric Thar, UnBowed
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
Sorceries [11]
3 Natural Order
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Lands [17]
1 Plateau
2 Bayou
2 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Gaea's Cradle
4 Verdant Catacombs
SB [15]
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Progenitus
1 Natural Order
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
Sneak doesnt have a way to kill a priest so if you untap with her, you win the game usually. Also if they cast a show and tell, you putting in a priest is better than emrakul or griselbrand. Once again, you untap and kill them. I think priest is better than most people give her credit for. If you untap with her you almost always win the game. If you dont, no big deal. Make them have it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvish Visionary
I have never had consistent mana problems with the configuration I'm running. I think playing 61 cards is a bad idea.
Heritage Druid is the worst card in the deck. Now that we are a Natural Order deck over a glimpse deck, the effect isn't as important. Also its useless in multiples, and if its specifically needed in a situation, we can always still GSZ for it. The only defensible argument for playing four is that most people think it's way more important than it is, and a lot of misguided forces, bolts and swords tend to get sent her way. Usually I can beat those players anyway though, so I'm not too worried about that.
If I was to cut a card from my list, it would also be the 4th Heritage Druid. Just saying.
On another note, seems SCG delayed my article. I had sent it in on Wednesday but didn't publish it yet...? Guess it will be up any time now.
I agree Priest is a good card versus Sneak Show but not a win condition. You win if you untap with her AND if you have a key card in your hand (Glimpse, Natural Order, GSZ, Behemot) AND your opponent haven't a Force of Will.Quote:
Sneak doesnt have a way to kill a priest so if you untap with her, you win the game usually. Also if they cast a show and tell, you putting in a priest is better than emrakul or griselbrand. Once again, you untap and kill them. I think priest is better than most people give her credit for. If you untap with her you almost always win the game. If you dont, no big deal. Make them have it.
Priest is good if you have a good card in your hand but it's not a awesome card as you say. I don't understand how you can think : Priest > Grisel if you untap. Without discard spell (Cabal or Thoughtseize) or several key cards you can't win.
So I'm crazy. :) Yes it's your best possible turn 1 but after this turn it's your worst draw. It's why DRS is pretty good because DRS is good in mid-late game.Quote:
People who play less than three llanowar elves are crazy. Its just your best possible turn 1 play, nbd.