[Deck] Death and Taxes

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Originally Posted by _erbs_

@chags
how is GsZ working for you ?

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GsZ has been amazing ever since I fit it in. Originally the deck had 4 mother of runes, 4 pridemage, 4 mangara and 3 gaddock teeg. I cut 2 teeg and 1 mangara for the GsZ and then cut a mother of runes and a pridemage for eternal witness and noble hierarch. The ability to go get dryad arbor on turn 1 to increase land count, grab hierarch for mana or exalted, tutor your pridemages at the exact time you need them, grab teeg without wasting 3 slots on him, or even just go get a goyf when you need a bigger creature is awesome. As long as I am playing GW I'll have GsZ as a 3 of in the deck, if I were to switch to 3 colors the GsZ would probably come out but for now it adds a lot of power to the deck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by chags

GsZ has been amazing ever since I fit it in. Originally the deck had 4 mother of runes, 4 pridemage, 4 mangara and 3 gaddock teeg. I cut 2 teeg and 1 mangara for the GsZ and then cut a mother of runes and a pridemage for eternal witness and noble hierarch. The ability to go get dryad arbor on turn 1 to increase land count, grab hierarch for mana or exalted, tutor your pridemages at the exact time you need them, grab teeg without wasting 3 slots on him, or even just go get a goyf when you need a bigger creature is awesome. As long as I am playing GW I'll have GsZ as a 3 of in the deck, if I were to switch to 3 colors the GsZ would probably come out but for now it adds a lot of power to the deck.

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Ic thanks for the inpunts

Still talking about other options of removal, did someone test Shining Shoal?
I believe that it may be a good option if used correctly. As I see it, the good things are that it may not be card-disadvantage and gives you tempo (by not making you tap your lands early game), and the bad thing is that you need a blocker or a CMC-3 card in hand generally for it to be effective.

Opinions?

Edit: I missed that it hardly kills utility creatures such as Welder and Confidant in time...

Edit 2: OK, I've already dismissed it... I just noticed that if I try to redirect damage from a blocker I may eat removal in response and be 3-for-1'ed.

I think I have a general idea, but what do you guys consider to be good and bad matchups for this deck? This is just my current guess, as I have only been able to test a few so far:

Anything Counterbalance based is very strong
Other blue based control (Standstill, Bant) are slightly positive.
Tribal, Zoo, Rock are 50/50
Combo is very poor

I haven't had a chance to test against Rock or non-Counterbalance control yet though, so those are just logical estimates. What have you guys seen as far as actual results go, assuming equal skill level? I also know that I'm missing a large number of decks, feel free to input any other matchups that you feel are important to point out for one reason or another.

actually since i play both rock/junk and D&T i know the week point of D&T against Rock is Deed.... if we can't do anything about a resolved deed and in time we lose a lot of board-position and due to that often even the game.... but since phyrexian revoker was put into the deck even that matchup has become a lot easier because deed does not sweep anymore (neither does EE) and their knight will not grow insanely.... and as long they have no way to remove an active mother we are completely fine plus they cannot block any of our flying creatures^^

if zoo is around 50/50 depends on your build.... i would say if you play Green & Taxes that should be allright if not slightly favored for G&T if its the mono W build its slightly favored for the zoo player

and for tribal... they should not be a problem, the swords are Bombs here

combo is indeed very poor but not unwinnable, but you need a lot of sideboard-slots to make it winnable, which makes your post-board matchups for other archetypes a bit weaker

but maindeck revokers + maybe hatebears (leonin arbiter), plus sideboard silence and canonists or E-Tutor-Toolbox helps a lot... if combo does not get a god-hand and finishes you on your first turn


lately i have been thinking of the "rising" of affinity decks, and i have some problems against them, how do you feel about affinity?

I want to say Aura of Silence is a bomb against Affinity, and it is. However, turn 3 is probably a turn too late. I will keep investigating though for something better.

@affinity
best solution i've found out is serenty. but DT will have an easier MU against affinity bec phyrexian revokers will stop most of affinity's abilities.

@affinity, I'll go with null rod only because of the fact that it hits other decks like combo (no more mana artifacts) and the kuldotha-metalworker decks that's been rising in popularity...

Hello,
Just wondering.., generally DT or GT has a light removal suite.., how do you deal with enemy revokers.., especially against a zoo that runs revokers main deck. Revoker naming vial, noble, equips, managara, mother of runes, etc. would be very troublesome

Quote:

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Originally Posted by _erbs_

Hello,
Just wondering.., generally DT or GT has a light removal suite.., how do you deal with enemy revokers.., especially against a zoo that runs revokers main deck. Revoker naming vial, noble, equips, managara, mother of runes, etc. would be very troublesome

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I don't think Revokers are a problem for us. It is true that we have plenty of targets for it, but we also have plenty of ways of dealing with them permanently with StP, Mangara and equipment. You can also Flickerwisp the Revoker to equip a Sword (of course this is not good with Jitte).
They must have at least two Revokers to really bother me, and in this case I'm fine beating them with Avengers, as their clock should be slower than ours.

I use version Green and Tax and I liked use Scryb Ranger because a can use relicary and magara 2 times, and my creatures receve a "flash vigilance" in attack´s fase opponent.

What kind of sideboards do you guys typically run for the mono-white version? I feel that 4 Silence is probably necessary for combo, but I'm not really sure how to build the rest. Here are some of the questions I've been tossing around:
I've considered going for an Enlightened Tutor package, with 3/4 of them and then several 1 of's, but I'm not sure that there are enough targets that help with the poor matchups.
I run Revokers main so I won't need to make space for them, so probably some Canonists in the sb? Or are they overkill?
Is Jotun Grunt fast enough to help with graveyard strategies, or is more than that needed?
What kind of things come in for tribal/zoo? Additional creature kill, life gain, CoP: Red, Kor Firewalker?
There just seems to be so many options for putting it together that I'm not even sure where to start lol.

My current side board for my mono white looks like this:

3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Wing Shards
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fry

My current side board for my mono white looks like this:

3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Wing Shards
2 Faerie Macabre
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon

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revoker is not part of your mainboard ?, in a mono DT revoker is a good part in the main for me

It used to be, but I also run leonin arbiter in the main, and I would rather have the arbiter main

Are just the leylines and revokers enough to make combo fair?

I also have Canonists in the SB as well for the tutor toolbox.


Anyways, my conclusions about Arbiter: It's still bad. I just wish there was something else to run in its place.

I also have Canonists in the SB as well for the tutor toolbox.


Anyways, my conclusions about Arbiter: It's still bad. I just wish there was something else to run in its place.

I'll probably cut them out to make room for a few more MD Revokers as well as a third MD Jötun Grunt. Newer idea, let's hope it still works.

10 Plains
4 Karakas
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port

4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Jötun Grunt
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Mangara of Corondor
4 Flickerwisp

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Via
1 Umezawa's Jittel
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Oblivion Ring

SB: 1 Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 2 Cataclysm
SB: 3 Wing Shards
SB: 3 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring

I took a monoW list to a 73-people tournament last weekend to a 4-3 result. Even though the result is kinda bad, I'm not that disappointed because it's my first experience with the deck IRL.

I've faced Merfolk (2-0), Bu Planeswalker Control (2-0), Aggro Elves w/ NO (0-2), Merfolk (2-0), Combo Elves w/ NO and Vengevines (0-2), Burn (0-2) and Uwr Countertop (2-0).
In the matches against Elves I was pushed to a defensive position in the beginning of both games, and when I had the control he played Natural Order. Had I resolved a Cataclysm, the result would probably have been different. I'll probably change something in my sideboard to handle Progenitus better (maybe Wing Shards in the place of Condemn, or even Retribution of the Meek, I dunno).
Both games against burn were close. Game one I was at one life with lethal damage in the board and a StP in hand that could give me three life from a Flickerwisp, but he had the Fireblast. Game 2 I was at 10 life, he had Furnace of Rath and a suspended Rift Bolt. I vialed in a Flickerwisp at end of my turn targeting the Furnace, but he Fireblasted me in response. He would have died from the equipped Flickerwisp attack next turn, thanks to the furnace.
The games I won had nothing so special. Equipment is great against merfolk, Revoker is great against planeswalkers, Vials and Revokers are great against Countertop. One of the games against Merfolk deserves a note: he conceded when I was at 1 life, and he was at 30 (due to StP and Condemns), after locked by Mangara+Karakas+Vial :).

My list:


9 Plains
1 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port

4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Jötun Grunt
3 Mangara of Corondor
4 Flickerwisp

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Oblivion Ring

Sideboard:
3 Cataclysm
3 Condemn
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Runed Halo
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Absolute Law
1 Aura of Silence


I like the maindeck the way it is, but the sideboard maybe will change. It is very hard to prepare to a wide open field, though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lebarion

I took a monoW list to a 73-people tournament last weekend to a 4-3 result. Even though the result is kinda bad, I'm not that disappointed because it's my first experience with the deck IRL.

I've faced Merfolk (2-0), Bu Planeswalker Control (2-0), Aggro Elves w/ NO (0-2), Merfolk (2-0), Combo Elves w/ NO and Vengevines (0-2), Burn (0-2) and Uwr Countertop (2-0).
In the matches against Elves I was pushed to a defensive position in the beginning of both games, and when I had the control he played Natural Order. Had I resolved a Cataclysm, the result would probably have been different. I'll probably change something in my sideboard to handle Progenitus better (maybe Wing Shards in the place of Condemn, or even Retribution of the Meek, I dunno).
Both games against burn were close. Game one I was at one life with lethal damage in the board and a StP in hand that could give me three life from a Flickerwisp, but he had the Fireblast. Game 2 I was at 10 life, he had Furnace of Rath and a suspended Rift Bolt. I vialed in a Flickerwisp at end of my turn targeting the Furnace, but he Fireblasted me in response. He would have died from the equipped Flickerwisp attack next turn, thanks to the furnace.
The games I won had nothing so special. Equipment is great against merfolk, Revoker is great against planeswalkers, Vials and Revokers are great against Countertop. One of the games against Merfolk deserves a note: he conceded when I was at 1 life, and he was at 30 (due to StP and Condemns), after locked by Mangara+Karakas+Vial :).

My list:


9 Plains
1 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Karakas
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port

4 Mother of Runes
4 Serra Avenger
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Jötun Grunt
3 Mangara of Corondor
4 Flickerwisp

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 AEther Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Oblivion Ring

Sideboard:
3 Cataclysm
3 Condemn
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Runed Halo
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Absolute Law
1 Aura of Silence


I like the maindeck the way it is, but the sideboard maybe will change. It is very hard to prepare to a wide open field, though.

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Try this if it might help
For the main
-1 rishadan port +1 flagstone
-2 oring +2 cataclysm
-1 revoker
-2 jotun grunt
+3 mirran crusader
-1 flickerwisp
-1 stoneforge
+2 wall of omens

For SB
4 aethersworn canonist
2 oring
1 e.tutor
1 pte / tariff
3 burrenton forgetender
2 tormods crypt
1 nihil spellbomb
1 thorn of amethyst