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Yes. And i answered him in ref to the 2nd target in a game? Like where his post states "for the 2nd reanimation target". But, good to know you're on the job..REXFTW.Quote:
Originally Posted by RexFTW
While i am here.... Akroma can also prevent double Piledrivers from getting in there(rare but can happen).
I have not been impressed with spell pierce either. I would replace with Inquisition of kozilek or dispel. Both are good vs zoo.Quote:
Originally Posted by videogamer99
I made the following changes:
Mainboard
-1 Terastodon, -1 Inkwell Leviathan
+1 Empyrial Archangel, +1 It That Betrays
Sideboard
-2 Spell Pierce
+1 Akroma, Angel of Vengeance, +1 Terastodon
I still really havent had a problem against Zoo. I bring out Sphinx and I win unless he manages the double Path.
I've been testing a white sideboard for 6 STP/Path and an ETutor package including Serenity, Pithing Needle, Tormod's Crypt and sometimes an Animate Dead. STP Path comes in for my 3 Spell Pierce, 3 Thoughtseize maindeck against Zoo (merfolk plan is slightly different) where 1-2 removal makes it nearly impossible for Zoo or Merfolk to race Inkwell Leviathan.
Ideas Unbound has been FANTASTIC.
Why are people talking about crap like Strategic Planning and Breakthrough when a card like Ideas Unbound exist? :eyebrow:
I have been testing Planning 3-4 of, along with 8 targets, 18 land(2/2basics 4 Sea). Often i would wish it was Careful Study, but having any other blue draw spell with it makes it pretty good. I can not get LDV to work with Thouhtseize and Reanimate. Maybe LDV build could use some SDTs that could also make Planning better as well. Ideas Unbound is worse than Planning being double uu and does not immediately bin a target to combo off of.
Against any goblin deck that uses warren weirding Akroma is even superior to the sphinx.Quote:
Originally Posted by RexFTW
The problem with the sphinx is that it CANNOT block piledrivers.. If they somehow get 2 out, you'll die.
Akroma's hasty business has won me several games against R/b goblins.
Sphinx is awesome, but so is Akroma since she lowers the ammount of turns needed to kill an opponent by a full turn, everyone knows how crucial that 4th/5th turn against goblins can be!
I don't say akroma is the superior call standard, but if you have to put a creature in sideboard, make it akroma.
Sphinx mainboard simply wins more match-ups than akroma does, after sideboarding akroma can shine against decks were the sphinx cannot do it with the same strength, also it is a second creature to use as relic bait.
I've never had problems with double blue mana for anything. I once had a lack of blue mana completely, but that's just once! ( and at that point I had a full black-carded hand)
but then again, I play 4 petals, 3 seas, 2 basics ( one of each) and a single bayou. the rest is fetch.
So, I've had a few people tell me that I should drop the 4tth Thoughtseize for the 4th Lim-Dul's Vault. What do people think is more important? The digging or the disruption/discard outlet?
No it's not.Quote:
Originally Posted by menace13
Strategic Planning doesn't bin creatures in your hand. Odds are, the creature you want to dump is not in the top three cards of your library.
But the odds of that creature being either in your opening 7 or the top 3 cards of your library are much much higher. With Ideas Unbound in the deck, and a large enough creature count and enough reanimate effects, LDV becomes completely unneccesary. You can focus on comboing out, rather than tutoring.
Basically, Ideas Unbound pretty much never fizzles, you always dump a creature or two with it. Strategic Planning fizzles very frequently, far more often than not.
This is why Ideas Unbound is better.
The UU part is a nonissue. I play a grand total of one nonblue source (one solitary basic swamp and I don't even need to do that), so it almost never matters that it's UU.
I do not think it is better than Study(either Planning or Ideas). The focus is on comboing with Planning, some common piles are cantrip/protection/land and rarely the really nutty creature/animate/anything. With 8 targets it is easier and allows me to play entire deck off basic island and swamp, which may not be an issue to most, but online Wasteland is a top 3 card in terms of total showings.
Of course it's not better than Careful Study. NO ONE claimed that it's better the Careful Study. Careful Study is the second best discard outlet in the deck, right after Entomb, and Ideas Unbound isn't that far from Careful Study in terms of powerlevel or mechanism.
The argument is that it's better than Strategic Planning, which imo it absolutely is.
It has a much much higher probability of getting a creature you need into your yard than Strategic Planning does, and it does it without needing to rely on another card/for less mana.
I do think lists playing 4 Careful Study, Ideas Unbound, more maindeck creatures and more reanimate effects (Animate Dead, Life/Death) would be much faster and more consistent than Lim Dul's Vault lists, Strategic Planning lists, Personal Tutor lists or Sensei's Top lists.
Sadly enough, they are less consistend. I've tested it. The problem is, that you rarely get to chose which creature you really want. Even if you are playing 4 iona maindeck. The deck with more discard/digging for creatures and more reanimates are far more aggressive and have potential to drop multiple threads fast. THAT can be it's great strength. (those deck should obviously run 4 show and tell sideboard)Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
Tournament report on Summer- Mercadiade 2010
Hey guys. I finished second in a 131 man tournament in Hamburg, Germany on July, 24th.
I made little changes to the deck, piloting a three- of Lim-Dûl`s Vault and Personal Tutor. I also replaced Echoing Truth for a single Maelstrom Pulse which is tutorable even if it is a much slower solution than Truth was before.
I am very satisfied with this list and recommend you testing with it.
Here is the Deck list I piloted
Main deck (60 cards)
Lands (17)
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
1 Island
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
Creatures (7)
3 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Sphinx of the steel Wind
1 Blazing Archon
1 Inkwell Leviathan
Spells (36)
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Careful Study
3 Personal Tutor
3 Lim-Dûl’s Vault (LDV I hate tipping this…)
2 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Show and Tell
Sideboard (15 Cards)
3 Null Rod
3 Duress
3 Ravenous Trap
2 Show and Tell
2 Perish
2 Spell Pierce
IMO this is very close to the best build for the moment. I changed one thing after the tournament
-1 Personal Tutor, +1 Thoughtseize
Due to thoughtseize being more a heck of a card in the tournament than personal tutor and 5 tutors are fine too I think.
For the reasons why I played this deck: I started tournament Magic with a reanimator deck 3 years ago and I think this deck has the potential to crush every other deck. So it is a valid choice for the German metagame with many different decks.
Before coming to the detailed report I give you a short summary of the decks I played against with the outcome and my sideboardings (as far as I remember them correctly).
Round 1 – Merfolk – win 2:0 (-1Iona 1 Sphinx 3 daze, + 3 Null Rod 2 Spell Pierce)
Round 2 – Dredge – win 2:0 (-2 thoughtseize 1 Leviathan, +3 Trap)
Round 3 – Armageddon Stax – win 2-1 (on the draw: -3 daze 1 leviathan 1 reanimate 2random + 3 duress 2 spell pierce 2 show and tell, on the play: leaving dazes in, taking out a tutor 1 Iona and a show and tell)
Round 4 – UW-Control – win 2:1 (- 1 careful study 1 LDV 1 sphinx, +3 duress)
Round 5 – Storm – lose 0:2 (- 1 careful study 1 leviathan 1 archon 1 show and tell 1 maelstrom pulse 1LDV, + 3 duress 3 null rod)
Round 6 – Boros-Aggro – win 2:0 (I thought he was playing zoo, so I boarded in 2 perish for a pulse and a LDV because I had just seen mesa, lynx and mountain in game 1)
Round 7 – Imperial Painter – win 2:1 (- 1LDV 1 personal tutor 1 pulse, +3 null rod)
Round 8 – Emreka – win 2:0 (-1 show and tell 1 personal tutor, +2 spell pierce)
Two side notes before starting the detailed report: The only other reanimator player in the tournament just played 2 personal tutor and 2 intuition. He also played a tropical island for 2 sideboard krosan grip. I saw the deck list before starting the tournament and told him about the bayou and tutor target pulse which he added to his deck list and was fine with it, too.
All the happenings are from my memory. I just wrote down forenames and the cards I saw via Thoughtseize, so if any of my opponents reads this and finds false information, feel free to correct me.
The report
Round 1 – Marc with Merfolk (with standstill) – die roll: me
Game 1 (Mulligans: 1 for me, 1 for him)
I start with fetch land go while he has a first turn curse catcher. I lay down land nr. 2 and play a careful study finding entomb. He misses his second land drop attacks and says go. I play a land and entomb Iona. He drops a land and swings for 1 but has no play. I reanimate Iona after laying down a 4th land, he has double daze and uses his curse catcher, but I just pay the mana getting Iona on blue into play.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 1 for him)
He starts with curse catcher again, I start with land go. He plays a standstill which I daze but he has Force. I draw a card and say go. Now he makes a big mistake by playing the just drawn lord of Atlantis which gives me a free ancestral so I can force his lord getting Iona into play the following turn.
Round 2 – Philipp with Dredge(afaik he plays dreadstill normally, so I expected DS ) – die roll: me
Game 1 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 0 for him)
My opening 7 were 4 Lands brainstorm Force and exhume, so I am fine with it expecting to play against dreadstill. I start with land go. He lays a putrid imp on his first turn, I thought some time responding with brainstorm hoping to find a daze or another pitch card and some useful stuff for the too many lands in my hand. Brainstorm shows me 3 lands, so Pimp resolves. I lay down a fetch land and say go. He discards stinkweed imp in his upkeep dredging for 5. I fetch end of turn to shuffle away the land on the top and draw a land the next turn. He dredges again, I draw a land after fetching eot (again…) and I am dead on his next turn.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 3 for him)
I play land go. He tries a first turn Pimp which got forced. I have a quick Iona so game 3 starts soon after game 2.
Game 3 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 0 for him)
Guess what, he starts with Pimp again(could be tribe I don’t remember which discard outlet it was…) which resolves due to me only having daze in hand. I play careful study discarding Iona. He dredges 5 cards finding a moeba and therapy. Because he has mana open the therapy resolves naming exhume, but I don’t have a reanimation spell. I brainstorm on my turn to find a reanimation spell, finding exhume and a trap. He dredges 5, discards 2 bridges and 2 imps before playing careful study. I trap in response exhuming Iona the following turn.
Round 3 – Hannes with stax – die roll: me
Playing against my best friend winning the die roll happened never before. Well playing against him happened before of course but I never won the die roll before. And stax is a deck which makes only fun if you are playing the deck.
Game 1 (Mulligans: 2 for me(2 times no land), 1 for him)
My 5 cards were: Iona, Archon, 2 lands and Reanimate. Lucky me winning the die roll… I keep play a land and say go. He has a first turn mox but not more. I topdeck study getting personal tutor and daze. He plays a ghostly prison which I daze. Iona on the following turn makes him scoop.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 0 for him)
He starts with mishra and tormodīs crypt. I entomb Iona and play reanimate to get rid of the crypt. He plays crypt and ghostly prison. I draw and say go. He gets prison no. 3. I play personal tutor on maelstrom pulse. He plays crucible of worlds which is fine for me having 2 basics in play. I pulse the prisons. He draw go. I thoughtseize him taking the oblivion ring leaving him a crypt. I am on low live but have a show and tell ready. I play eot LDV finding only a leviathan. I play the show and tell, he got a baneslayer angel into play and I am fucked.
Game 3 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 0 for him)
My opening 7 were 2 lands thoughtseize daze force entomb and some random card (but blue). Thoughtseize shows me: 3 lands crucible smokestack prison and crypt, I take the crucible away. He plays the top decked chalice which gets dazed and I force the crypt. I entomb Iona eot drawing daze on my turn. He plays smokestack which I daze getting Iona on my next turn on white. He plays the next smokestack, Iona hits, smokestack on 2 crucible, Iona hits, no play from him. I have no board left but drew 2 lands. He cannot afford the stack on 2 but has a trinisphere which get pulsed on my turn. He plays another trinisphere I respond via brainstorm finding exhume.
Note: This was the hardest match of magic I had and we topdecked like champions. I just want to give my thanks to my friend Hannes for the funniest and most exciting game I ever had. This Match really felt like an epic war in which you cannot say who has the upper hand before one is down.
Round 4 – David wit UW-Control - die roll: him
Game 1 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 1 for him)
I play 2 fetch lands and entomb on Iona while he has two islands and a plains in play. I play reanimate on Iona, he responds with brainstorm but let reanimate resolve. I name white and he scoops.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 1 for me, 1 for him)
Second game he starts with fetch land go. Thoughtseize shows me a land, new Jace, counterspell, absorb (counterspell for UUW with gaining 3 life for those not knowing the card), wrath and Elspeth taking the counterspell. He tries his Jace, which I daze, he forces I force back. Eot he plays an enlightened tutor on humility which resolves because there was no counter in my brainstorm. I do not find pulse in time while his Elspeth token flies over and over.
Game 3 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 0 for him)
I thoughtseize him first turn seeing 4 lands 2 forces and absorb taking a force. He plays land brainstorm go. I play fetch land go. He plays land go, too. I double fetch entombing Iona eot. I play exhume which gets forced. I have a reanimate which resolves. Iona forbids white and he scoops.
Round 5 – Jan with Storm (Ad Nauseam) – die roll: me
Game 1 (Mulligans: 1 for me, 0 for him)
I fetch and study. He has a first turn ponder. I play land go, he does the same. Eot I play a brainstorm finding the next study which I play on my turn but I still lack of entomb or a critter. He silences me which I force. He silences me again on the next turn which resolves and he goes off.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 1 for him)
I have and insane hand with double Null Rod and second turn Iona plus daze but my only land is a swamp. I go for Iona on black; he got his side boarded chains of vapor. He triple duresses me the next three turns taking both null rods and a force before going off again.
Round 6 – Amaury with Boros-Aggro – die roll: him
Game 1 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 1 for him)
He starts with plains lynx. I have a second turn Iona on white which is more than enough.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 0 for him)
First turn thoughtseize on him shows me a dead perish in my hand due to him not playing green but my 3rd turn Iona is enough again.
Note: I really went nuts here having Iona and Archon in the first game, and Iona and Sphinx in the second. Sorry for that Amaury.
Round 7 – Dennis with Imperial Painter – die roll: him
Game 1 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 1 for him)
He got a painterīs servant into play after I brainstormed in response and him leaving a red mana open. He names blue as I expected. I get Iona onto the battlefield the following turn by forcing his red blast on my reanimate. Iona names blue while I am at 10 life so the damage race is in my favor.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 1 for me, 1 for him)
He manages to get a top, a moon effect and a servant on blue into play and blasts all my relevant spells so I scoop.
Game 3 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 0 for him)
I play a thoughtseize on my 1st turn seeing mox, blast, magus of the moon, imperial recruiter, relic, city and mountain taking the blast after thinking carefully. He plays city of traitors mox with imprinting recruiter and goes for a blood moon which I daze. I play a careful study discarding Iona and Sphinx of the Steel Wind. He plays his Magus but I have force. Eot I play LDV finding exhume and get Iona on red which means good game.
Note: For the second game I boarded out both Sphinx leaving archon in, because my opponent seemed to have an alternative plan to moon effects and grindstone. Of course against a mono red deck Sphinx is game breaking. Usually I do not make such mistakes but I think the hard games before resulted in a lack of concentration here. I boarded both sphinxes back in for game 3.
Round 8 – Steffen with Emreka – die roll: him
Note for those not knowing the deck: It is an UBg combo deck playing petal and noble hierarchs as acceleration and getting Emrakul, Iona and sphinx onto the battlefield via Show and Tell or Eureka. It plays LDV as tutor plus discards and counters, so it is a similar deck to reanimator, but I think because of the faster kind itīs potential power are even higher than those of reanimator.
Game 1 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 1 for him)
He starts with land go. I play a first turn thoughtseize seeing ancient tomb, polluted delta, petal, Emrakul and eureka taking eureka. He topdecks LDV which he plays in my eot. I entomb Iona and have one mana open and a reanimate in hand but I decide to play around daze leaving a brainstorm and a force in my hand as other relevant cards. He tries Show and Tell which I force and get Iona on blue the next turn which flies over for the win.
Game 2 (Mulligans: 0 for me, 1 for him)
I have Blazing Archon in my opening hand and a thoughtseize, which I consider as good cards in this matchup. He starts with land go. I start with thoughtseize, he responds with brainstorm and I see Iona LDV 3 lands and eureka taking eureka. He plays a Show and tell and yells a loud “no” as I got the Archon against his Iona on black. His crucial mistake was boarding out his 2 echoing truth, so he has no out left in his deck for the Archon. I tell him I will dig for a Leviathan which he cannot block due to his Usea and tropical island so I got the handshake.
Unfortunately there werenīt Top 8 play offs so the report ends here. Now I am interested in your opinions. Tell me what you guys think about this deck list and if you think I made a crucial play mistake feel free to show it to me so I can improve my game.
Thanks for reading
I'm really interested in testing your list, I've obtained a really negative result in a legacy side event @ National in Italy where I've played a list with the following difference from yours:
About Cantrip & Other Spells
- 1 Personal Tutor
- 1 Maelstrom Pulse
+2 Ponder
+1 Daze
About Cows
-1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
-1 Inkwell Leviathan
-1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
+1 Empyryal Archangel
+1 Terastodon
I've finished 0-3 (1:2 - 1:2 - 1:2) drop in a 100 players tournaments and about all the games I can comment:
- not flexibility about reanimate what I really need or just hope opponent does not draw a potential solution
- bouncer/mass removal maindeck is necessary
Just some questions about your sideboard:
3 Null Rod instead of 2 Null Rod & 1 Pithing Needle
Do u think u no need PN? I suppose that it could be a great tool vs Karakas, Planeswalker, Survival & Fearie Macabre
Perish vs Moment's Peace
Due to the fact u play 2 xG duals, what about Momen't Peace? It's not tutorable by PT & does not destroy opponent's creatures btw u can use it twice so just two "free attack" in the case our cow is there just to lock
Ravenous Trap vs Extirpate
Trap are there just for dredge, do u think u could replace it with Extirpate in order to use this slot also vs other mu?
First I have to say that I think this deck needs a mass removal or bouncer maindeck which was echoing truth before. The best solution for this slot is pulse I think, because it does the same while lacking the speed (sorcery and more mana).
About the critters I can say that I hardly ever needed terastodon and I dislike empyrial archangel because of the only 5 power. Furthermore blazing archon has a similar effect as archangel and I cannot see a benefit for a 2-off critter which hasnīt an impact on every matchup. So this a 1-off for me and I consider archon he stronger creature. The decks I need a shroud guy against showed to have more problems with leviathan than having with archangel because swinging for 8 is not that hard for an aggressive legacy deck.
About playing only 7 critters makes careful study a much worse card so I think 7 is the minimum amount of flesh for using study properly. with archon and leviathan set there are 5 slots free and I think everyone agrees to at least 2 iona and a sphinx. Because we cannot rely on having entomb on first or second turn I added a third iona to the list (I even tested 4 but that was too much) and as far as I played with that I can say that this isnīt too much (I hardly remember drawing two in one game). Because sphinx is the best creature against zoo I decided to play it as a 2-off because sometimes they have double path but if they does they are lacking critters so I can find the second sphinx. The lifelink is crucial in nearly every matchup so you arenīt in that a great disadvantage if sphinx is your only reanimate target.
I cannot see a great benefit by using another creature in exchange for these 7, because I think that it that betrays akroma the new leviathan of m11 or another is superior enough in a common matchup to those I am currently using.
To the sideboard. Yes pithing needle is great against the examples you made but as a not-tutorable 1-off I think it is not worth the slot. Faerie macabre is a pain in the ass but not that much used as crypt or relic. Relying on a 1-off on which I could have to waste a LDV is not a good plan just because I can play against some not-commonly-used cards (most are only played in the board). As an answer to every sideboard- card they could bring in, you have still show and tell which is tutorable and far superior than pithing needle against the mentioned cards except Karakas.
Against decks with Karakas I use my shroud guy and thats normaly enough. Extirpate is a great card but speaking of non-dredge decks which rely on the graveyard I cannot see any which is disrupted that hard by extirpating the key cards or the deck is not commonly played enough.
I havenīt tested momentīs peace in the slots of perish. I can see the higher flexiability of the card because it buys two turns against merfolk for example and two turns are crucial in every matchup of course but I am not sure if it is reliable enough to be superior to perish.
uhhh i would still say the best second creature to reanimate is still a second sphinx of the steel wind. It is not legendary.... gaining 12 life on your turn and 12 more when they attack seems good enough to stop double piledriver to me.... 24 life gained per turn.... Good to know you are on the job menace13.Quote:
Originally Posted by menace13
Their biggest threat would be a double warren weirding or something like that so Terastodon is the next best option (targeting your lands) to give you sacraficial elephants and block piledrivers. Thanks come again.
Almost every deck plays activated abilities in the maindeck worth stopping. The notable exception is zoo and the biggest perpetrator is merefolk (usually 20+ cards there). Needle also shuts off top, wasteland, karakas, mutavault, cursecatcher and aether vial, not just faerie macabre. Note that only 2 of those are artifacts. Also note that needle costs 1 mana instead of 2 which is often the difference between going off 1-2 turns sooner (test it! you will see).Quote:
Originally Posted by mtgducks
(before the QQ starts, needle on cursecatcher is pretty good if they start with 3)
Now, null rod does have many excellent uses vs combo and counterbalance/top decks however.
Shutting off KotR, Fetch Lands, Grim Lavamancer and Pridemage aren't necessarily a bad idea...Quote:
Originally Posted by RexFTW
A zoo player getting an opening hand of Savannah, Arid Mesa, Steppe Lynx, and Pridemage is normally pretty damn good but take out that fetchland and it isn't nearly as explosive. I am not advocating randomly needling out fetchlands but in this circumstance it gains you a bit of tempo and buys you time to get your Sphinx online.
Oh, Wow. So you plan on telling me that I should go and put out a bunch of creatures that are not evasive as my next best option? And then nuke my own mana against a deck with 30 creatures and Vials. For fear of a double Weirding when Goblins will just grab Stingscourger and return the 9/9 to hand(rather have Weirding hit to bin it) and it can't be forced if they Vial it. Sure I will get three 3/3's that will stall them for a few turns at best until they put out 6+ creatures in 2 turns and kill me or should I race and allow Goblins to operate with lands and Vials for two turns and Kill me?Quote:
Originally Posted by RexFTW
Double Sphinx is great if you are playing a second Sphinx. The best target in the MU is the best target in the MU?
Your service is commendable.
Thank you.
Edit: And wth.. You see the guy's list form today and now you want to use that as your answer when the posts were all over a week ago? Really?
sorry menace... if they stinscourge your terastodon you still have a ton of elephants to keep sphinx from getting warren weriding which is the point.... Goblins can not win most games with an active sphinx.
Last time i checked the metagame is about 40% zoo/goblins in most areas right now and sphinx is the best answer against them. I would definately play more than 1 atleast from the board. Look at the GP madrid list from 6 moths ago. It has more sphinx in the board. Vs goblins inkwell goes out sphinx comes in!
PS I have played over 1000 games with reanimator. Thnx.
This is my favorite part of your postHow many turns do you need to win with sphinx? 3-4? say you stall for 3 turns.... gain 18 life. Yes plz! Now they are at 2 and you are at 38? horay.Quote:
Sure I will get three 3/3's that will stall them for a few turns at best