[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

UBr (MD post #3574) question - SB ideas/strategies with UR crap?

sadly I found out its my worst match-up I'm frequently confronted with, it potentially represents the same clock Burn could and still has those random Spellsnares, Fows and Snaplocks or ... I found I just can't read their hands and play efficiently
All games I've ever won were just they played badly or drew real nothing and still it was close...and its even worse with Extraction and Pillar...

I have tried
3x Empty the Warrens - which is too slow unless played T1, T2, totally random ...and is even worse MD as suggested some time above
3x Defense Grid - which is kind of ok, but underperforming in other matches

usually with 3x +Chain of vapor for pillars/delvers/warrens

I'm currently on 3x Pyroblast 1x EtW -1xAd Nauseam, -1xPreordain, -1 Therapy, -1xIsland and ignoring the Pillars... better but still not good...

3x Pyroblast
2x Empty the Warrens
3x Extirpate
2x Pyroclasm
1x Virtues Ruin
2x Chain of Vapor
1x Echoing Truth
1x ? metachoice (Hurkyls Recall/EtW/Infest/Wipeaway/Sadistic Sacrament)

so the question is SB: 3xpyroblast/3xgrid/3xother?

Opinions/experience using Nihil spellbomb as a Snap/GY hate?

Guys,

I have been thinking to play this deck over TES due to consistency issues and I was wondering why ppl would play Grim Tutor? I am not looking for comments on cost. ANT only plays 4 tutors. Is this alleviated with Ill gotten gains and past in flames or not? In ANT, do you play either 1 main and the other 1 side?

thanx for your help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slaydo

Guys,

I have been thinking to play this deck over TES due to consistency issues and I was wondering why ppl would play Grim Tutor? I am not looking for comments on cost. ANT only plays 4 tutors. Is this alleviated with Ill gotten gains and past in flames or not? In ANT, do you play either 1 main and the other 1 side?

thanx for your help.

---

Proper English and grammar, please.

And you play 2 Grim Tutor's main because ANT has fewer business spells and fast mana than TES.

TES can more consistently win games on turns 1 and 2 than ANT because it plays 10 business spells versus 7.

ANT is good at consistently not losing to Wasteland.

In ANT, if you play Past in Flames, play Iggy in the board, or just not play Past in Flames and keep Iggy in the maindeck.

There haven't been too many good finishes with Past in Flames outside Elie Pichon's GP Amsterdam Top 8 upset and some smaller European tournaments.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

Proper English and grammar, please.

And you play 2 Grim Tutor's main because ANT has fewer business spells and fast mana than TES.

TES can more consistently win games on turns 1 and 2 than ANT because it plays 10 business spells versus 7.

ANT is good at consistently not losing to Wasteland.

In ANT, if you play Past in Flames, play Iggy in the board, or just not play Past in Flames and keep Iggy in the maindeck.

There haven't been too many good finishes with Past in Flames outside Elie Pichon's GP Amsterdam Top 8 upset and some smaller European tournaments.

---

Thank you for the feedback.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

In ANT, if you play Past in Flames, play Iggy in the board, or just not play Past in Flames and keep Iggy in the maindeck.

There haven't been too many good finishes with Past in Flames outside Elie Pichon's GP Amsterdam Top 8 upset and some smaller European tournaments.

---

Iggy are inferior choice to PiF ...that's the same with Thrash, in Europe people tend to play Mongoose over Snapcaster, I haven't seen straight UB doing good anywhere except SCG and even that is suspicious...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

Iggy are inferior choice to PiF ...that's the same with Thrash, in Europe people tend to play Mongoose over Snapcaster, I haven't seen straight UB doing good anywhere except SCG and even that is suspicious...

---

Iggy is only inferior to Pif when not playing chants (thus not splashing white).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dia_Bot

Iggy is only inferior to Pif when not playing chants (thus not splashing white).

---

And Chant is superior to Duress when playing against Thress Imo.

The only reason the splash for RED is Burning Wish, otherwise the Chants are allot better the what PiF brings to your gameplan.
So if you do not see the need for Burning Wish (or believe that when playing Burning Wish you should play TES, as I do) then I think the best build is a version of UBw ANT with 7 chants MD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zieby

And Chant is superior to Duress when playing against Thress Imo.

The only reason the splash for RED is Burning Wish, otherwise the Chants are allot better the what PiF brings to your gameplan.
So if you do not see the need for Burning Wish (or believe that when playing Burning Wish you should play TES, as I do) then I think the best build is a version of UBw ANT with 7 chants MD.

---

Agreed.
I've switched to a 7 chant UBw list recently and haven't looked back on duress or B. Wish jet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

UBr (MD post #3574) question - SB ideas/strategies with UR crap?

sadly I found out its my worst match-up I'm frequently confronted with, it potentially represents the same clock Burn could and still has those random Spellsnares, Fows and Snaplocks or ... I found I just can't read their hands and play efficiently
All games I've ever won were just they played badly or drew real nothing and still it was close...and its even worse with Extraction and Pillar...

I have tried
3x Empty the Warrens - which is too slow unless played T1, T2, totally random ...and is even worse MD as suggested some time above
3x Defense Grid - which is kind of ok, but underperforming in other matches

usually with 3x +Chain of vapor for pillars/delvers/warrens

I'm currently on 3x Pyroblast 1x EtW -1xAd Nauseam, -1xPreordain, -1 Therapy, -1xIsland and ignoring the Pillars... better but still not good...

3x Pyroblast
2x Empty the Warrens
3x Extirpate
2x Pyroclasm
1x Virtues Ruin
2x Chain of Vapor
1x Echoing Truth
1x ? metachoice (Hurkyls Recall/EtW/Infest/Wipeaway/Sadistic Sacrament)

so the question is SB: 3xpyroblast/3xgrid/3xother?

Opinions/experience using Nihil spellbomb as a Snap/GY hate?

---

I've never had too much a problem with this deck -- keep in mind, they typically run max 10 counters pre-board (3-4 daze, 2-3 force, 2+ spell pierce/snare), and they have to actively use all their mana to get damage through, so they can't typically leave up pierce.

Preboard, don't run your duresses into Daze, and other than that, play like they're a burn deck -- they don't run enough counters to matter. Mulligan aggressively, as keeping hands that don't do anything is an easy way to lose.

Postboard, my entire game plan is to keep their creatures off the board -- if you do that, they're just a really bad burn deck. So, for you, I'd board in 2x Pyroclasm, 2x Chain of Vapor.

Also -- I'm not sure why you run Pyroblast in the board. I would run additional Thoughtseize/Duress if your U/B/R, or run Chants if you're 4 color. Pyroblast is just a bad version of both, and is just about the most awkward thing you can do if you're trying to crack an LED.

Boarding in Grave Hate to stop Snapcaster is really, really bad in general, and even worse against that deck. Honestly, you should probably be outracing Snapcaster, particularly on the play, and on the draw...they run about 4 spells that can be Snapcastered to benefit (and Pierce is FAR more common than Snare, and Pierce is not a hard card to play around when you can see it coming from a mile away).

Daze is not run in favor of SS/SP around me

I though about pyroclasm, I don't know it feels counter intuitive he just bolts/snapbolts me the same... I feel I can't fight both clock and disruption they always seem to have the other type of hand I'm prepared for or I'm just unlucky bad player... its subjectively worst my matchup in my meta

4th color would be total mess... I've encountered the pyro/Led problem, it is awkward... reasoning behind pyro is it deals with Snapcaster and V.clique when discard could not (in your big turn), sidefx it kills Delver if needed, helps with counterbalance, top->counterspell/stifle, or Arcane Lab local guy used to play

I mean as a GY, not in this particular matchup

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

Daze is not run in favor of SS/SP around me

I though about pyroclasm, I don't know it feels counter intuitive he just bolts/snapbolts me the same

---

It's possible you need to keep more aggressive hands? I don't know your exact list, but if you're having trouble with Snapcaster -> Bolt, it seems like you would have trouble racing a lot of aggressive decks.

I board in removal because their dorks are annoying, as they up their clock pretty substantially -- my removal suite is 3x Chain of Vapor, 2x Slaughter pact -- I've never actually tested Pyroclasm, but it seems fine. Typically I board out:

-1 Underground Sea
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Ad Nauseam

My list is similar to the GP Amsterdam list without the green splash.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

4th color would be total mess... I've encountered the pyro/Led problem, it is awkward... reasoning behind pyro is it deals with Snapcaster and V.clique when discard could not (in your big turn), sidefx it kills Delver if needed, helps with counterbalance, top->counterspell/stifle, or Arcane Lab local guy used to play

I mean as a GY, not in this particular matchup

---

I've never been a huge fan of the 4 color lists either, just wasn't sure what exactly you were playing.

I find it interesting people board specific cards for Vendillion Clique -- usually I just try to use my cantrips wisely if I have seen/expect it from them (save a brainstorm, keep a card you need 2 cards down on ponder, etc). I've just never had any luck trying to run reactive cards in Tendrils decks.

We play nearly the same deck then... I have +2 preordain, -1 land, 4 duals, no Crystal Vein, 61cards

9/10 7card hands can go off at T1-T3 if played aggressively, 6card turn later so I do not mulligan unless its complete (match-up) garbage, we're talking both know what the other is playing

I mean on the top of that - you kill some guide/delver, they snapbolt finish you, Pyroclasm seem too narrow answer.. It's not like I can't race their deck, but they can sometimes hold me off enough time to snaplock and burn me, which is just worse with Extraction and Pillar postboard, its not like I lose all the games, but feel unfavored where it seems ok on paper and shows horrible in practice, all wins just too close for my liking... and it cost me better prices in weekly tournaments... but maybe you're right I'll give it a try tomorrow...

I don't usually go under 3 probes G2 i really like the card, pyroclasm is awesome in my experience

Pyroblast is not for Clique, but can serve the purpose, a lot o blue decks run it... its just test in the swarm slots as many expect creatures postboard and SB bayou weakens MD manabase

anyway thanx for your answers

I went 10-5 with UB ANT at GP Indy. I placed 98 of 1212. Here is a mini tourney report.
R1 Bye
1-0

R2 Affinity. 1-2. Lost to Mindbreak Trap G2 and I boarded out Ill-Gotten Gains G3 and that cost me the game
1-1

R3 Mono Red 2-1
2-1

R4 RUG Delver. 2-1. G3 went like this:
He has a Snapcaster in hand. He has Spell Snare and Stifle in yard. I cast Infernal Tutor. He Spell Snares. I cast 3x LED, Lotus Petal, 2x Dark Ritual, Tendrils
3-1

R5 UW Stoneblade. 2-0
4-1

R6 RUG Delver. 1-2
4-2

R7 RUG Delver. 2-0
5-2

R8 High Tide. 2-0
G1: T1 Thoughtseize, T2,3,4 Duress
G2: T2 Dark Rit, Thoughtseize x2 and Bob
6-2

R9 Hive Mind 2-0. Beat double Leyline with 2x Bob G2
7-2

R10 Stoneblade. 2-0
8-2

R11 Maverick. 1-2 He had double Leyline. I went to Ad Nauseam while at 18 life and went down to 1. I cast Ill-Gotten Gains to return Tendrils, Ponder, and Brainstorm to try to find 2x Chain of Vapor or 1x Chain and 1x Infernal Tutor and I missed
8-3

R12 Esper Stoneblade vs Sam Black. Kept a 1 lander, played around Wasteland, mana screwed.
8-4

R13 vs Combo Elvers. 1-2. He attacked me out with Thorns G2 and G3
8-5

R14. Dredge. 2-1.
9-5

R15. Burn. 2-0
10-5

Here is the list that I played:
Maindeck:
Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
2 Thoughtseize
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Grim Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony

Lands
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Island
2 Underground Sea

Sideboard:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Slaughter Pact
2 Thoughtseize
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Hurkyl's Recall

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by videogamer99

R11 Maverick. 1-2 He had double Leyline. I went to Ad Nauseam while at 18 life and went down to 1. I cast Ill-Gotten Gains to return Tendrils, Ponder, and Brainstorm to try to find 2x Chain of Vapor or 1x Chain and 1x Infernal Tutor and I missed
8-3

---

I watched this match at the GP. Echoing Truth man :cry:

That Maverick player was such a douche to you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS

I watched this match at the GP. Echoing Truth man :cry:

That Maverick player was such a douche to you.

---

He didnt seem that douchey. He used Bojuka Bog too early and he didnt apply enough pressure to make Ad Nauseam no longer be an out.

I went 11-4 in Indy with this list (no byes) :

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 LED
4 Lotus Petal
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Duress
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Grim Tutor
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 U Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Island
1 Swamp

SB:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Thoughtseize
3 Chain of Vapor
2 Slaughter Pact
2 Empty the Warrens


My Terrible Tournament Report

Rd1 Win 2-0
White Stax
G1 he goes T1 Mox Diamond (pitch Wasteland) -> Mistveil plains go. I name Trinisphere on Cabal Therapy, he discards it and does nothing the rest of the game.
G2 he lands a trinisphere and a smokestack. I play a bunch of Dark Confidants and Empty the Warrens for 0 storm a few times, and kill him with 1/1 and 2/1 beat down.

Rd2 Win 2-0
Rug
G1 I take because he has no clock. G2 he boards in Life from the Loam...eventually he draws it and dies because he boarded in Life from the Loam.

Rd3 Loss 1-2
TES
I hate storm matchups...G1 he kills me faster, G2 I kill him faster, G3 he kills me faster.

Rd4 Win 2-0
pox

rd5 Win 2-1
esper stoneforge

rd6 Win 2-x
?? u/w stoneforge I think

rd7 win 2-0
zoo

rd8 Win 2-1
white weenie with sideboard chalice
This was an unexpected board plan -- G3 I win because my hand is randomly like cabal ritual x3, Lion's Eye, Infernal Tutor, so his chalice is a blank.

rd9 win 2-0
maverick
He mulligans to 5 both games, I end up discarding or killing his hate bears.

rd10 loss (caleb d) 0-2
RUG
Game 1 it gets into a situation where he has 1 blind card, lethal on board, and I win unless it's a daze. It's a daze.
Game 2 I keep a hand heavy on discard, but kind of slow (I actually like that in this matchup, since they typically don't clock you that much). He goes t1 delver -> flip, t2 delver -> flip, and ends the game with something like Force/2x Stifle in hand. Was never really in this one.

rd11 loss 1-2
U/W stoneforge
Very close games here, end up losing G3 when he has a blind card in hand and need to win. The blind card is Snapcaster and I can't play through it.

rd13 Win 2-1
u/w Stoneforge
These matches were definitely good practice in playing around Vendillion Clique, as he had them every game and used them well. His list didn't have much of a clock outside of Clique, so I was able to take my time to kill him and eventually got there. He runs a million Spell Snares, and Grim Tutor ends up being an all star.

rd13 Win 2-0
RUG
I take G1 as he doesn't have much of a clock. He boards into counterbalance, but I'm able to duress it before it lands, and eventually get there.


rd14 Loss 1-2
Dream Halls -- I take game 1 in a pretty intense game (I play Past in Flame twice this game, both times I end up tutoring up an LED to crack for blue to cantrip my way into a bunch of cards - the first time to force him to play a daze and slow him down, the second to kill him). Game 2, he mulligans to 4, I get cocky, start playing poorly, and he plays Dream Halls -> Conflux. I Ad Naus in response down to 2, don't hit Chain of Vapor, and die. Looking back, at the very least I should have continued to go on Ad Naus, but there were a million misplays this game and I deserved to lose. G3 he goes T2 show and tell -> Dream Halls, I try to Chain of Vapor and he has the force. The dude was an ass (was trying his hardest to rules lawyer me out of the game...I think I had a judge called on me 2-3 times, and dude after every spell I cast insists on counting my hand, etc), but this was a pretty fun match. Dude I played -- if you're reading this: You're an ass, it's a game, and you're not even playing for top 8. Calm the fuck down.

rd15 win 2-0
Aggro Loam
These weren't actually games...G1 he keeps a fine hand against most decks. I kill him Turn 2 on the play, he never cast a spell.
G2 he plays Turn 2 Sphere of Resistance, but misses his 3rd land drop. I play turn 3 bob while he continues to miss land drops. I eventually play more bobs and kill him with a tiny tendrils.

Ended up being good for 51st and $200.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dia_Bot

Agreed.
I've switched to a 7 chant UBw list recently and haven't looked back on duress or B. Wish jet.

---

I love more people jumping on the Orim's Chant wagon, as I've always loved and advocated Ubw ant over other colors.... 7 chant builds are sexy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by j_rb

I love more people jumping on the Orim's Chant wagon, as I've always loved and advocated Ubw ant over other colors.... 7 chant builds are sexy.

---

Is there a representative list somewhere? I only find normal lists (aka the one I am playing right now and getting bored of) or I find lists playing red (the one I am about to try, if I don't find a list with white soon lol)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThediscoPower

Is there a representative list somewhere? I only find normal lists (aka the one I am playing right now and getting bored of) or I find lists playing red (the one I am about to try, if I don't find a list with white soon lol)

---

I'm curious. What's the list your running look like. I've found most 7 chant builds look similar to ub and you just cut a tutor or preordain for a protection spell.

Generally, Ubw looks like this:

4 Silence
2 Grim Tutor
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Ponder
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Orim's Chant or Duress

1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded strand
2 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra

It's Ub with 2 cards cut for 1 protection and a md CoV.

There's also some lists I posted a couple pages back that have white in them and have done well in large tournaments....

Ari lax just posted this list in his premium article on scg. It looks pretty sweet. I don't know about 2 rains but 1 could be worth the slot.

3 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

Instants
2 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
3 Orim's Chant
2 Rain of Filth
4 Silence

Sorceries
1 Grim Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony

Basic Lands
1 Island
1 Swamp

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea

Sideboard:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Chain of Vapor
2 Rebuild
1 Grim Tutor
1 Preordain
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Island
1 Plains

aaronm678 Congratulations how are 17 lands working for you? // would you change anything?

j_rb I'd feel dead to maverick, with all respect to Ari Lax this is nice 2 Ad Nauseam nostalgia but I can't see a good deck in it

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

aaronm678 Congratulations how are 17 lands working for you? // would you change anything?

---

I would probably cut the Volcanic for either a Badlands or a Fetch. I could see an argument for moving one of the lands to the sideboard (typically my first cards to cut post-board are either lands or petals, depending on how aggressive their mana denial plan is), but I think you want 17 in after you've sideboarded against RUG.

I could also see cutting a Chain or Slaughter Pact for Echoing Truth or Hurkyls, I wasn't expecting to see a lot of Chalices, but my list is almost just dead to it. The problem is there is only room for a 2 mana bounce spell as a 1 or 2 of, and the only way this deck can tutor it is Grim Tutor.

Other than that, I liked my list a lot -- My game plan against RUG was typically just to board into 11 discard spells, since they typically don't have that many threats I can snag those, which gives me a lot of time to play around stuff like Daze and Stifle. Also -- this game plan is quite good against the counterbalance sideboard (where the Chant lists I think are just dead to that board plan).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by j_rb

I'm curious. What's the list your running look like. I've found most 7 chant builds look similar to ub and you just cut a tutor or preordain for a protection spell.

Generally, Ubw looks like this:

4 Silence
2 Grim Tutor
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Ponder
1 Chain of Vapor
3 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony
3 Orim's Chant or Duress

1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

2 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded strand
2 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra

It's Ub with 2 cards cut for 1 protection and a md CoV.

There's also some lists I posted a couple pages back that have white in them and have done well in large tournaments....

Ari lax just posted this list in his premium article on scg. It looks pretty sweet. I don't know about 2 rains but 1 could be worth the slot.

3 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

Instants
2 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
3 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
3 Orim's Chant
2 Rain of Filth
4 Silence

Sorceries
1 Grim Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony

Basic Lands
1 Island
1 Swamp

Lands
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea

Sideboard:
4 Dark Confidant
3 Chain of Vapor
2 Rebuild
1 Grim Tutor
1 Preordain
2 Tendrils of Agony
1 Island
1 Plains

---

The list I am running right now is looking like this:

4 duress
3 thoughseize
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
4 Ponder
1 Chain of Vapor
4 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Gitaxian probe

1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal

3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 march flats
1 verdant catacombs
1 misty rainforest
2 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
1 crystal veins

Sideboard:
1 Bayou
4 doomsday
1 emrakul
4 xantid swarm
2 chain of vapor
1 shellshock isle
1 Ad Nauseam
1 rebuild

Now yes, yes, I know, i know. The probe is kinda lost. I'm aware of it. However, Grim tutor is kinda hard to find and costly for a card I am not particularly fond of, or more specifically, I hate the 3 mana, and the 3 life loss (6 from ad nauseam) doesn't help his case either. Yes, I know, he can win games you should lose, i'm aware of that too, but that still doesn't make him better to my eyes. Then, comes the case of the mox diamond and chrome mox, that I do not like either in that spot, which is why I ended up opting for a probe, just to see how he would perform. As far as I am concerned, he isn't bad at what he does. Draw a card and lets you see what's up in opponent's hand, but still a bit lackluster tho. I will however go and test mox, the forth thoughtseize and lim-dul's vault, just to see how it goes. As for the sideboard, I do like the trans board against control heavy matchups, however, it can stick to go for the emrakul plan when the guy has his wastelands. Here, i am think about either taking out the swarms and add in cloud of faeries, a laboratory maniac in case I fail hardcore (and to see if the little guy is viable.) and 2 other cards, Or i will go with textbook dark confidant plan, more resilient in general.

Now, the red list I almost want to try is the list that made top 8 GP Amsterdam. After seeing it make it this far, along with the fact that the list I saw lately were all using red made me want to try it, at some point:

4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
1 Ad Nauseam

SORCERIES (23)
4 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Grim Tutor
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony

LANDS (16)
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Bayou
1 Crystal Vein
1 Swamp
1 Volcanic Island
1 Bloodstained Mire

SIDEBOARD (15)
4 Xantid Swarm
3 Dark Confidant
2 Empty the Warrens
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Slaughter Pact
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Echoing Truth

so there you go, what I am playing, what I will try and all the rambling that goes with it :) As I said, I had no idea where to begin the cuts in order to add the silences and the chants, mostly because I do love my discard spells lol. Your post gave me a nice idea on where to start with that style

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ThediscoPower

I had no idea where to begin the cuts in order to add the silences and the chants, mostly because I do love my discard spells lol.

---

If you love your duress I'd stick with 4 duress 3 chant or a 3 duress 4 chant protection package. This is still solid against control decks with 3 or 4 chants. Also, 7 chant builds are sexy as you can chant walk against certain decks. You usually do this against maverick if you don't have the turn 1 or 2 kill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

j_rb I'd feel dead to maverick, with all respect to Ari Lax this is nice 2 Ad Nauseam nostalgia but I can't see a good deck in it

---

This is true, but 99% of other builds without burning wish die to gaddock teeg also. Ari's list tries to win turn 2 not turn 3-4 like most other ant builds. Thats why there's 3 mox and rains. They add speed and consistency to your ad nauseams. Other builds will obviously have earlier wins, this one will just have more due to more fast mana. This is just common sense.

Most of the time you just kill maverick before they can stick anything with a build similar to this.

As I've said earlier, chants are sexy for just buying time... Mainly this is done against maverick so they don't stick gaddock teeg or the more recent Thalia.

AnT made it to the SCG Finals in Sac Town, but lost in Game 3:

Quote:

---

Phillip sat calmly as Galen ran through more mental calculations, shrugging as Infernal Tutor went to find a copy of the Cabal Ritual Galen revealed. Polluted Delta dropped Galen to 15 as he grabbed an Island and cracked his Lotus Petal to cast both powered-up copies of Cabal Ritual, topping it off with a hellbent Infernal Tutor for Ad Nauseum, leaving him with just one black mana after casting it.

The first spell out of the gate was a second Ad Nauseum, knocking off a huge chunk of his life and potential card supply, but he was fully committed and had to keep going for a mass of Dark Rituals. Instead, a bunch of chaff fell off the deck including a multiple copies of Duress, Ponder, and lands that combined to knock Galen's life down to a tiny 2. It was too late to stop, but Past in Flames flipped over and ended the game and match out of nowhere.

Phillip Contreras wins the match and is the Sacramento Legacy Open champion!

---

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/..._phillip_.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JJ-JKidd

AnT made it to the SCG Finals in Sac Town, but lost in Game 3:



http://www.starcitygames.com/events/..._phillip_.html

---

I'm sure it was a long day, so misplays are understandable..but reading the coverage , it seems like he could have tutored cabal ritual instead of dark confidant the last turn and killed him by flashing back pif.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aaronm678

I'm sure it was a long day, so misplays are understandable..but reading the coverage , it seems like he could have tutored cabal ritual instead of dark confidant the last turn and killed him by flashing back pif.

---

He had no red available, but if he'd gotten LED he could've done it. I think his line was to go for Ad Naus and cast it with no mana floating. :( My wife and I were watching the coverage and the sound of our simultaneous forehead slaps when he plopped a Bob on the table (after discarding one to LED) was loud enough to scare our dogs.

Dude must have been completely exhausted, because games 2 and 3 were both very winnable for him. It looked like he was relying really heavily on just brute-forcing a big Ad Naus, which is understandable enough because he was obviously too tired to clearly think out his lines of play. He also looked really uncomfortable and nervous on camera, which I'm sure factored in.

Tutoring LED wouldn't have done it, since the opponent's spell pierce would have had him 1 mana short after PiF.

He played poorly and I was facepalming myself the whole time :frown: BUT I perfectly understand how being tired after a long day like that was a huge factor in his misplays. He might want to sleep more the night before / have some energy drink at the ready the next time :tongue:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gregtron

He had no red available, but if he'd gotten LED he could've done it. I think his line was to go for Ad Naus and cast it with no mana floating. :( My wife and I were watching the coverage and the sound of our simultaneous forehead slaps when he plopped a Bob on the table (after discarding one to LED) was loud enough to scare our dogs.

Dude must have been completely exhausted, because games 2 and 3 were both very winnable for him. It looked like he was relying really heavily on just brute-forcing a big Ad Naus, which is understandable enough because he was obviously too tired to clearly think out his lines of play. He also looked really uncomfortable and nervous on camera, which I'm sure factored in.

---

Gotcha -- the report wasn't awesome, I was under the impression he cracked LED before he tutored there, and I also must have missed the opponent having blue available for spell pierce.

Well yes he cracked it for black mana. The line that won through spell pierce was to crack LED for red mana, tutor for cabal ritual, cast cabal ritual using the 2 untapped lands if he pierces pay then flashback PiF with one black floating so he can go dark rit, dark rit, cabal rit, infernal, tendrils but instead he got bob and worse he blocked with the bob without drawing a single card off of it while knowing his opponent still had another geist due to a thoughtseize on turn 2. Also felt he should have played his protection differently i.e. not play it when the opponent had brainstorm mana up to make his duress fail to find, putting back psionic blast and mindbreak trap. He also kept miscounting mana during the match with his dice, like paying 3 mana for infernal tutor (I'm guessing he thought he was casting grim, but still.) When he had to go for ad nauseam game 3, I thought it would be ugly because ad nauseam is always ugly in this deck, even if you're at 18 or more life you can fizzle, which is super meh for me. He was probably tired though but that match should have been his.

Ah yeah, I forgot about the Spell Pierce. He was obviously dead-set on getting what would have likely been a disastrous Ad Naus anyway, so I'd wager his head wasn't in the game. It's really easy to get stuck on a game plan, you know? I'm sure I've lost plenty of games doing something so easy to not do, like getting Infernal with an Iggy loop... While my Tendrils is in the yard.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gregtron

He had no red available, but if he'd gotten LED he could've done it. I think his line was to go for Ad Naus and cast it with no mana floating. :( My wife and I were watching the coverage and the sound of our simultaneous forehead slaps when he plopped a Bob on the table (after discarding one to LED) was loud enough to scare our dogs.

Dude must have been completely exhausted, because games 2 and 3 were both very winnable for him. It looked like he was relying really heavily on just brute-forcing a big Ad Naus, which is understandable enough because he was obviously too tired to clearly think out his lines of play. He also looked really uncomfortable and nervous on camera, which I'm sure factored in.

---

Tell me about it. I almost fell of my chair when he casted the brainstorm before going to find the tendrils with infernal tutor in one of the matches against mono red goblin, and was about to fizzle if he couldn't play the card he got from brainstorm. Then the end was kinda sad tho. He seemed completely exhausted in the end.

well the major problem was him sticking to the Ad nauseam plan - opponent has 0 GY hate cards and even if he had...
G2 he shouldn't bounce the Angel at first place... miscounting, well ok happens, but sac LED for other that R with past in flames in hand its absolutely counter intuitive :really:

G3 why re-boarding into 2 Ad Nauseam? (I hope he did not get the impression he can use some after 1st gets Mtraped like G2 at least...)

I'm not into these fancy dice counts, do you all do so? imho it's rather lengthy and causes more confusion... I just have my GY in a line - what went to GY this turn separated, cards not played down, flash-backed up and write down remaining mana just when need to think and search for something... so the storm and order is clear (for both) and easily reconstructed

What about artifacts? :tongue:

The best way is to write down everything, so that you have also no problem with judge calls, but I usually use coloured (blue/black/red/storm) d10 spindown to easily show the opponent what I'm doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sloshthedark

well the major problem was him sticking to the Ad nauseam plan - opponent has 0 GY hate cards and even if he had...
G2 he shouldn't bounce the Angel at first place... miscounting, well ok happens, but sac LED for other that R with past in flames in hand its absolutely counter intuitive :really:

G3 why re-boarding into 2 Ad Nauseam? (I hope he did not get the impression he can use some after 1st gets Mtraped like G2 at least...)

I'm not into these fancy dice counts, do you all do so? imho it's rather lengthy and causes more confusion... I just have my GY in a line - what went to GY this turn separated, cards not played down, flash-backed up and write down remaining mana just when need to think and search for something... so the storm and order is clear (for both) and easily reconstructed

---

I do like 3owulf, which is write everything down. When I'm going off, I track storm count with ticks, and mana down as BBB, BB, UU, or whatever. You can easily knock dice over or make a simple math mistake, and if you aren't using paper then you have no way to walk back through the events to make sure you're at the right game state. I'm also really careful to verbally confirm storm count and mana changes. For example, "storm count 4" or "go down to 2 black, cast Dark Rit" followed by "go up to five black" are super easy to do, and make a world of difference in communicating what's going on.

I too feel as though he could of easily won that match aswel however it's important not to forget that they had been playing for over 12 hrs at that point and playing storm for 12 hours straight would be far more taxing than playing dudes and suiting them up. I'm certain if that match had happened at the start of the day he would of crushed.

In the standard (Ari Lax) list, what do you board out for Dark Confidant?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gregtron

I do like 3owulf, which is write everything down. When I'm going off, I track storm count with ticks, and mana down as BBB, BB, UU, or whatever. You can easily knock dice over or make a simple math mistake, and if you aren't using paper then you have no way to walk back through the events to make sure you're at the right game state. I'm also really careful to verbally confirm storm count and mana changes. For example, "storm count 4" or "go down to 2 black, cast Dark Rit" followed by "go up to five black" are super easy to do, and make a world of difference in communicating what's going on.

---

This is exactly how I do it. Tick marks for storm as it always counts up, actual symbols for mana. I usually don't go "3 floating, Dark Rit, 2 Floating, now 5" unless I'm playing into/around counters. No need for an extra operation if it doesn't matter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AriLax

This is exactly how I do it. Tick marks for storm as it always counts up, actual symbols for mana. I usually don't go "3 floating, Dark Rit, 2 Floating, now 5" unless I'm playing into/around counters. No need for an extra operation if it doesn't matter.

---

I have a separate die for the storm count then represent mana floating using blue die for U floating, black die for B floating and red die for R floating.

In addition, normally do not bring my dice out during the game, not unless I am "storming-out."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AriLax

This is exactly how I do it. Tick marks for storm as it always counts up, actual symbols for mana. I usually don't go "3 floating, Dark Rit, 2 Floating, now 5" unless I'm playing into/around counters. No need for an extra operation if it doesn't matter.

---

I have a separate die for the storm count then represent mana floating using blue die for U floating, black die for B floating and red die for R floating.

I normally do not bring my dice out during the game, not unless I am "storming-out."

I actually write down the names of each spell cast (well sometimes shorthand). I started doing this when I was playing doomsday, but have kept it up regardless of the storm deck I'm playing. I write down each mana symbol while comboing. This guards against confusion in gamestate and opponents who want to cheat during a later judge call.