Please do! It's always interesting to see splashes, especially those that did well.
Also, sweet avatar, dude. Haven't used any *buntus in a while, but Linux is Linux!
Printable View
Please do! It's always interesting to see splashes, especially those that did well.
Also, sweet avatar, dude. Haven't used any *buntus in a while, but Linux is Linux!
Haha, thanks. I haven't used Linux too much lately because of school (I'm just too lazy to install MS Office on my virtualized Windows)... but I'm looking to get back into it more soon :)
Anyway here's my list:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Dark Confidant
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Scryb Ranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Garruk Relentless
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Savannah
3 Bayou
1 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Cavern of Souls
SB:
2 Armageddon
3 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Path to Exile
Swapped the 4th Knight for 1 Mirran Crusader last minute; figured that with so many Abrupt Decays going around, and Deathrite Shamans, Knight wouldn't be that great. Crusader doesn't care about those cards at all. The lack of Exalted with using Deathrites over Nobles and only one Pridemage main could hurt a little bit though.
I don't expect anyone to agree with the 2 Scryb Rangers, but I just like having both of them. I've played Maverick for awhile and I just feel weird not having two in the deck. Feel free to disagree, it's just a personal preference.
Also, Armageddon. Probably the reason why I still play this deck -- I put one copy of it a couple months ago as a joke but now I'm seriously playing two copies of it. It's just so good against the durdly decks that it's not even funny. In the Last Chance Grinders I played against the Helm of Obedience deck and still beat him through a Humility and only three creatures in play because I Armageddon'd when he had four basic lands in play and a fetch land.
Matchups:
Round 1 - W Bye
Round 2 - W Reanimator 2-0. He goes for Reanimate -> Iona game 1, but loses when Mom + Thalia + Deathrite beat him for 2 a turn when he's at 9. Game 2 I get out 2 Knights and use Karakas to bounce his Jin-Gitaxias and Elesh Norn to win.
Round 3 - L Burn 0-2. I faced this guy in the Last Chance Grinders the night before and beat him. But I got color screwed game 1 and Game 2 kept a hand of all removal when he drew no creatures.
Round 4 - W UR Delver 2-0. We both keep a 1 lander round 1 (lol) but I manage to draw into a 2nd land -> Thalia and Wasteland his top decked Volcanic Island. Game 2 I draw 3 Abrupt Decays for his two Delvers and Goblin Guides.
Round 5 - W WBg Stoneblade (splashing G for Deathrite). Game 1 I get smashed by Liliana and Lingering Souls. Game 2 I don't really remember, but I won. Game 3 I get out Elspeth, Thalia, Pridemage and Scavenging Ooze and he gets out Batterskull and still has Jitte in hand. Time has already been called; it's been a very, very long match. He taps out for a Perish and I respond by killing his Batterskull with the Pridemage -- because of the grindy match, he forgot that Pridemage was in play.
Round 6 - L 0-2 UW RiP Miracles - Unfortunately, I did not see Armageddon. Game 1 I got smashed with maindeck Humility and Game 2 I mull to 5 with one land.
Round 7 - L 0-2 BUG Nic Fit. Nic Fit is just a bad matchup because of its inevitability. Maze of Ith was good to stall though, but I can't do much when he Thragtusks me like six times across the match (and that's not including the infinite combo he pulled off in game 1). He's a cool guy though so it was more funny than mad or anything haha.
Round 8 - W 2-0 4-color Maverick. It's a GWbu Maverick deck with Deathrite & Noble for acceleration, and Brainstorm and Jace. It probably looked like a typical 4 color control deck but it ran Scryb Ranger and Green Sun's Zenith as well. I win g1 through a Knight and g2 with double Deathrite keeping Knights small.
So 5-3 for Day 1. I ended up playing Round 8 even though I had no chance to Day 2 because my brother was in contention for Day 2 so I figured I'd just play the last round.
Pros:
- Abrupt Decay -- I boarded both in my sideboard in almost every matchup.
- Armageddon! Okay I didn't cast it at all on Day 1 but Armageddon in the Last Chance Grinders was pretty epic (and I hate using that word). Quoth my opponent after the match: "Fuck Armageddon." In my testing, Armageddon was pretty much game over if it resolved against Miracles. Even if you don't have a Knight in play.
- Thoughtseize. I didn't use it much at GP Denver, but in my testing I felt a lot more comfortable with discard. Coming from GW Maverick it's a different experience to have to write down my opponent's hand :P
- I flipped a Gaddock Teeg against my Round 8 opponent on a Dark Confidant and then we both commented "Oh, that seems useless". I played it anyway to attack with it, then next turn he tries to drop Jace but then I point out Gaddock Teeg in play. Nothing game breaking, just funny.
- I didn't make any obvious punts. Of course I made mistakes but nothing that caused me to face palm.
- No Storm decks today! Or Dredge!
- The splash was definitely worth it. It sort of makes the matchup against Burn worse (the loss Round 3 was the first loss to burn with Maverick I've had in a very, very long time). But I like Confidant, Abrupt Decay, and Thoughtseize. I'm not as infatuated with Deathrite as everyone else was, but he's still pretty good.
Cons
- No way to deal with Humility. If I play Maverick again (I think it might be time for me to move on for now) I'd probably swap a Thoughtseize for a K-Grip.
- Sometimes colors were awkward. I had some hands that were all white cards and only Bayous in play and things like that.
- Dark Confidant only drew me like 10 cards across the whole day. That's probably a high estimate. It's not that Confidant is bad, it's just that they killed him every time I played him.
Mirran Crusader is a good choice. I would run a minimum of 2 in the current metagame.
Since Legacy has alot of Modern influence creaping in how about taking a page from Kiblers GW meta hate and look at Wilt-Leaf Liege? The card has a ton of upside for the deck, dodges discard, can't be abrupt decayed, has a 4 toughness rear end to stay out of bolt range and helps offset engineered plague(if your opponent chooses to bring it in). I find its pump ability very relevant with the format going very midrange. Looking at him as a 2-3 of right now...
This seems like a good idea. would combo really well with naya hushbladeQuote:
Originally Posted by conley1000000
I'm going to pretend that says Qasali Pridemage...Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
How come people are not shifting the deck to PFM. Jund uses the PF route for their mirror and BUG
I already have, I'm just assuming everyone else is slower to adapt. PF + Mindcensor is the shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by KobeBryan
-Matt
Kindly post the new version of the punishing maverick build used now.
In light of this... Thalia is the card were gonna replace with the punishing fires right?
A decklist would be much appreciated and a tourney report if ever! Thanks and go Maverick!!
Also, i understand the reemergence of Punishing maverick...but whats the Mindcensor for?
Thalia and PFires aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. They are just good against decks that the other isn't.
Haven't you noticed that people are running 10 fetches in a deck now to support a 3 color deck? Thats what mindcensor is for.Quote:
Originally Posted by IL_casual
Also, I'm guessing, tutors?Quote:
Originally Posted by KobeBryan
As for removing Thalia, did I miss where people stopped playing combo?
No but the majority of the meta isnt combo at the moment. Paying 3 for PF isnt very attractive.Quote:
Originally Posted by matunos
IMO Thalia would be sb.
Someone should next level these guys and take a combo deck to the top 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by conley1000000
Thats what they get for running so much jund
If you cut Thalia from the main, your overall combo matchup is going to be very weak as you'll basically be conceding game 1. This means your post-board plan has to be like 70-80 to win to be able to eke out a 50/50 matchup.
That may still be the correct plan, but be advised.
That's what it's going to come to. Jund will run out all the decks that can keep combo in check and then it'll just run all over...Quote:
Originally Posted by KobeBryan
So I sat down and tried to brew a hybrid...here's what I came up with
Punishing Maverick(61)
Creatures(23)
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Thalia, Gaurdian of Thraben
Sorcery (4)
4 Green Sun Zenith
Instant (7)
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
Artifacts(3)
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Enchantment (1)
1 Sylvan Library
Land (23)
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
1 Plateau
4 Savannah
1 Taiga
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
This is pretty close to what I'm running:Quote:
Originally Posted by conley1000000
4 Path to Exile
3 Punishing Fire
2 Sylvan Library
4 Green Sun's Zenith
13
4 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Noble Hierarch
24
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Windswept Heath
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Savannah
1 Karakas
3 Forest
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
23
Path because no one is playing basics anyway, and less Thalia because you're running Fires, but not mutually exclusive. Mindcensor just nutkicks all those decks running 10 Fetches, and combos well with Path to Exile.
-Matt
JProbably can go without a MOM since you have a safekeeper there anyways. Up the ooze count.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
I still like the synergy between StP -> trigger Punishing Fire. Life gain never stopped this deck before, and only in the case of opposing KotR or Sylvan Library has the the life gain ever mattered. It's too cute to get the Aven Mindcensor / PtE going -- precisely because you want the PtE against aggro, where Mindcensor is weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Do you think that Pun Fire and Thalia can coexist MB in a deck looking to punish the cost of spells/mana and remove low toughness creatures to save STP for there big creatures i.e. jund and bug delver?Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
Yes, naturally. Thalia is already bad against creature decks, where PFires shines. The reverse is also true with Thalia vs unfair decks, where PFires is just a shock. How many turns does it take in Game 1 to figure out what you're up against? In either situation, you can always chump block with Thalia to get rid of her and start PFiring away.Quote:
Originally Posted by conley1000000
Granted, it's hard to fit in 4 Thalia with more spells in the deck, so cut that down to 3. Then, run the 4th in the board for when you do need it.
Thats along the lines of what I was thinking, but wasn't sure if I was sound thought. I'm working hard not to give up on the deck and keep it going. This semi fresh look could be something it really needs...Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
I think P. Fires definitely gives the deck a bit more of an edge that just derdling til we get Terminus'd.
-Matt
Another thing I've been wondering is Leyline of Sanctity. With Jund creating space for more combo should this be in our SB. My other question would it warrant coming in vs. Jund itself? I know alot of people use it in modern against it and there discard suite only gets better in legacy?
Is anyone using giest of saint traft?
It depends how the maindeck and sideboard are built. I think if there's cards in the main that aren't pulling their weight, Leyline seems okay. But, do you keep hands without it? Probably, but then you draw awkward 4 mana enchantments later. Seems meh. I'd rather just put in more juice against them. Yes playing against discard sucks, but playing more good things also seems legitimate. In the BGx: BGx mirror, I always board out discard since it's so bad when you draw it in the mid to late game, and you can usually recover from a Hymn in the early game.
-Matt
Specifically:Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Sylvan Library (out-draw your opponent)
Life from the Loam (recur Wasteland and Horizon Canopy -- spotty vs DRS)
Horizon Canopy via KotR (extra cards)
Brainstorm (in blue splashes, application is obvious)
This deck does not belong in the DTB anymore. Unrepresented and probably will not place if played. I guess this archetype needs a break from the format.
You posted a 4-0 list about a month and a half ago which was a more hostile meta with all the one mana sweepers running around than the current meta. The deck can certainly place if played by skilled pilots willing to put the work in. Stoneblade and rug were fine match ups before and that hasn't changed. Mom is one of the best answers to an abrupt decay in the format. The decks biggest weakness miracles is not as popular as it was a couple months ago. Maverick has all the tools to be a competitive deck in the current meta. It's not like combo is everywhere which is obviously the worst case scenario. A properly tuned deck can certainly grind with the mid range grindy decks such as jund that are currently running around. I agree it is probably not a deck to beat at the moment and is extremely underrepresented but it absolutely has the tools to take an event down if the deck is given the proper attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by useL
Only: Deathrite Shaman --> KotR =(
But the deck still works very well in the current meta! BUG isn't a difficult matchup I believe, so the problem with KotR is not that big. Mother of Ruins is a bitch ^^! But you might want to add 2/3 Stoneforge Mystic with some equipment again, for those who had cut it before.
And if think Gaddock Teeg + some sideboard cards can win some of the combo matches, you can even go back to Punishing Fire lists to beat all other decks around!
Maverick, especially Punishing Maverick, is most certainly still a tier 1 deck, and I think the sooner folks catch onto that, the sooner we'll see top 8s by it again. It can most certainly go toe-to-toe with any of the non-miracles decks out there, even combo (Thalias and Teeg). For now the deck is the dark horse of the format.Quote:
Originally Posted by useL
I agree to your statement. It is indeed a strong deck still and played properly and tuned thereafter it can put up results. But right now, this deck is not amongst the decks I practice against for any tournament since I do not see it as a great threat or a deck represented in an event.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canes25
Lol, just seen a weird Vial Maverick in MWS.
Lands [21]
4 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Savannah
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Forest
4 Wasteland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
Creatures [28]
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
3 Aven Mindcensor
3 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Birds of Paradise
Spells [11]
4 AEther Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sylvan Library
Sideboard [15]
4 Pithing Needle
3 Path to Exile
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Krosan Grip
2 Ground Seal
1 Batterskull
Sideboard pretty much design to hate on Deathrite Shaman and Miracles. Aven Mindcensor is a bitch, and carries equipment like a boss. This deck still has a pretty favourable matchup against Jund/BUG/RUG and when people come off the Deathrite Shaman hype, it might place well in tournaments.
The deck can still make result. The fact is there are less and less people playing it so the chance of the deck to be Top 8 decrease. In my metagame (In France), Maverick still represents about 5% of the metagame (Yeah yeah French are kind of outdated, not a news) and there are often one in the Top 8. (Maybe (I hoppe) there will be a Maverick in the next top 8 of the BOM (700+ players tournament in France)).Quote:
Originally Posted by useL
UW Miracle, Storm and S&T (worst MU ever^^) are tough MU but UW Miracle is not as popular as before and Storm has always been here.
The other decks of the meta are winnable. Of course some changes has to be made: Mirran crusader has certainly his place in a heavy BUG metagame (This guy just win this MU alone), Aven Mindcensor need to make his come back as a 2/3 off (Good against... RUG, BUG, ANT, etc.) and PF should be consider.
I just went 3-1 in a small tournament yesterday, I lost on a mistake against ANT but RUG, BUG and Dredge were free for me. The keys were: Mother, Aven Mindcensor (So good mana denial with Wasterland), Mirran Crusader, Rest in peace (This card is insane... Very effective nowadays).
Look at the list I posted as a jumping off point. Fires and Mindcensor are darn good right now. I haven't tried Vial, so I can't say anything about that, but flash flying ANYTHING is good.
-Matt
I fully agree with Crusader, thats a card I've been testing very thoroughly. I like Aven Mindcensor as well, especially in the Punishing Fire version where you have to trim thalia back.Quote:
Originally Posted by heallan
Interesting. I have tried out Aven Mindcensor multiple times, and I've always been disappointed by him. One of the Problems I have is that I can't find a place in my list to include it right now. My list feels as tight as hell, and I even had problems switching from GW to Punishing because I couldn't find anything to cut.
I've finally ended with this list:
Creatures (22):
4 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
Spells (15):
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
Lands (23):
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Plains
Sideboard (15):
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Pithing Needle
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Life from the Loam
1 Crop Rotation
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Harmonic Sliver
Punishing is a Blowout right now! My meta mainly consists of BUG and Miracle Blade Hybrids. Back then, with my GW build, I've always had problems with those Deathrite Shamans, and I lost many games against the Control Decks with them at 1 life - things that Punishing Fire surely could handle. And 'till now, I'm satisfied with the results.
I like to have Thalia alongside PFire. Fire gets rid of the early Shamans, preventing the BUG Opponents from ramping, and then Thalia puts her Tax on them, hindering their game plan even more. Against BUG, I mostly even side in the 4th Thalia because I think that she's so great. And there are nice combat tricks you can do with her First Strike and PFire.
Mirran Crusader is also a blowout against BUG. Put a Jitte on him, and he becomes absolutely bonkers! He's also good against Miracle Blade - Rest in Peace doesn't shrink him, and he doesn't get blown up by Perish. Batterskull doesn't help them refilling their life totals... only Souls still suck. And against Swords, you still have Mother.
I've cut the 4th Knight to fit in a 2nd Crusader. With all those Shamans around right now, I believe that this is a solid choice - I can still tutor the Knight with GSZ in the MUs I need him - which I can't do with Crusader. That's why I definitely want a 2nd one.
Sylvan Library is amazing, as always. I would never go down below 2 of them.
Yeah, and the SB is built to fight those Control Decks. The Split between Needle and Revoker because there's the occasional Storm or Elves Deck I have to face. The blasts help against BUG, too. But I don't even think that the MU is unfavourable for me right now. Sliver is my bet as additional tutorable Artifact/Enchantment Removal. All those Engineered Plagues hurt, and Rest in Peace also needs to be dealt with.
There's just the question about my Manabase. I'm not absolutely sure if I would need a 7th Fetchland. But what should I cut, if I put it in? the 3rd Savannah?
Also, it hurt to cut Cavern of Souls - but I think that a land like Horizon Canopy, which produces G and W under all circumstances, is better. I sometimes found myself being cut off White, not being able to cast my StPs. That's also the reason why I put in the Plateau (my friends said that I should play 2 Taiga - I honestly disagree)
I think personally, Mirran Crusader is great, however, do you NEED him to win the BUG matchup? I haven't gotten a ton of testing in so I cannot say for certain that's he a requirement in that matchup.Quote:
Creatures (22):
4 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
Spells (15):
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
2 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
Lands (23):
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Plains
First, Knight is the only beef you have in the deck, so I'd up his count to 4 of. Even at 3 mana, he's tutoring for your Grove, Wasteland, Maze, etc. Personally, I've cut the Equipment from the deck to make room for Mindcensors. Yes, I know it's blasphemy, but I just feel that with 7 pieces of mainboard removal (3 being recurring removal), that you don't really need that extra edge in the mainboard.
For the manabase, I feel like the Canopy and Plateau are a bit of overkill. I think I'd rather have a bit more of a solid manabase and change that to a Forest and a Savannah (I'd personally run 2 Forest to have more basic lands against Tempo decks, since Hierarch can be fragile at times). You do lose a bit of consistency in casting red spells postboard, but the red spells you bring in are not always for Tempo Wasteland decks. I'm actually trying out a Ghost Quarter in my build against the double Plains waiting game of Miracles. If you can knock them off double Plains, making them hold a fetch for Tundra or fetch Tundra earlier is music to the ears of your Wastelands.
Your board looks fine for what you're trying to do. I personally would not include more than 3 Needle effects, and the 4th Thalia could be a Cannonist, but this is a meta call really.
-Matt
I gave it a good shot. Really did. Then I faced burn and wished I ran actual threats - not 1/1s.
Then I faced the mirror, and wanted to tie a noose.
Not trying this experiment again in the near future.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here.
That's pretty strong, wow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
-Matt