Playing the deck for the first time in a couple of months tonight. Hopefully I remember how to do it still!! Old list with IGG I believe.
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Playing the deck for the first time in a couple of months tonight. Hopefully I remember how to do it still!! Old list with IGG I believe.
Welcome to the Source! If we haven't met in person, we surely will soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by HerrGevatter
If you are truly in Philly, Redcaps Corner right outside of 30th street station/Drexel university has weekly Legacy every Wednesday night and usually get 30 or so people. If you haven't heard of the Philly legacy Series that Top Deck Games+Redcaps Corner+Alternate Universes runs on a monthly basis, check the thread in tournament announcements.
Massacre is an interesting choice, but I really don't want to ever flip it to Ad Nauseum postboard. For me, the bounce/anti hate package in board has been sufficient to handle the minimal amounts of hate that comes down out of hatebear decks before I can sculpt a winning hand. I'd rather have therapy postboard to hit the bears I can't answer than having to massacre them away later. Massacre is going to look very embarrassing when death and taxes or maverick cast things off karakas/vial/deathrite, and TES is naturally fast enough that I don't feel you need to invest in a sweeper like that.
Xantid swarm has been so good for me particularly at Champs, winning me 4 games and possibly a 5th had I not messed up. If you are having trouble with reanimator (and why wouldn't you, the deck has a lot of disruptive capabilities), test out another swarm over GY hate. Usually you can combo off against other GY decks before they can get you (reducing the need for grave hate in the first place) and other matchups become better with swarm such as merfolk, sneak and show, omni tell, and reanimator (increasing the need for swarm). I don't think GY hate is optimal right now and looking to race in those matchups is where you want to be.
Diminishing returns has been very good for me, specifically because it costs 4. Being able to cast it easily and have mana floating in scenarios where my opponent has been attritioning my hand away has proved invaluable. Costing double UU comes up every so often, but more than anything not having the mana to finish the game off post Dim Ret is what kills me. Adding another mana on to Dim Ret can only increase the fizzling chance due to failure to have initial mana sources after its casting.
Eye to nowhere was a card I used to play with before the printing of abrupt decay. even in the more hectic, less clearly defined meta of a year ago, I found myself wishing for it maybe once a month between playtesting and tournaments. There are simply few things preboard I want to bounce that I cannot grapeshot and even fewer postboard that I cannot chain of vapor/abrupt decay. Wishable bounce hasn't been relevant for me. If you feel you need answers to both trinisphere and nether void preboard, go ahead but it isn't typical from what many of us are seeing at large events
:)
I'm pretty positive we've met at Redcaps or Top Deck; I haven't made it out to AU too often. I'll try to introduce myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammit67
Massacre is in there strictly as a wish target; I'd never board it in. What I like is that it's free once you get it so you have a better chance of going off that turn. I should note it was a last-minute inclusion and I only wished for it once. Testing has been pretty limited.
I see your point about DS vs RtS; I guess I need to try it in more situations. But for right now, 3RR is easier to wrap my head around than 2UU.
I'll also try out another Xantid Swarm; it seems like a good idea.
I forgot to add that I don't use Eye a ton, but it's helped me win vs Chalice on zero or one and similar nonsense in game 1s. I'm not totally convinced it deserves the slot, but it's an effect I like having access to.
Lol just punted vs jund. Quad silence walk 4 turns in a row into an ad nauseam, died to surgical because I went for IGG instead of Pif. Yuck
They are very loose, but I was just trying to get the ball rolling and the thoughts flowing on sideboard cards outside of "the norm". I still really like having the Topical Island in the board for Wasteland, and Port decks. I may go back to running a split on Abrupt Decay and one Hull Breach so I can tutor for it game one with a Chalice on 1 (slow play Wish into Hull Breach). It is still easy-ish to cast like ADecay, because Red is one of the colors from RoF and Volcanics. The green is still the issue, but having the Tropical Isl. in the board really helps sure that up to cast Decay and Hull Breach. Hull Breach being counterable is bad, but you can try and mind game the Countertop player into stacking a 1 on top with no mana left, or run an LED out to get countered just to be able to hit the Hull Breach. It is an expensive 2:1 on your side, but if a quick counterbalance comes downs on 2, running a 0 mana spell out to check the top of their deck is going to be very helpful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kael
Regarding recent posts,
There's nothing wrong with discarding Silence for Duress, Cabal Therapy and Thoughtseize provided the metagame consists of other combo decks or prison decks that Silence can't disrupt, you're increasing the number of black cards in your deck for Chrome Mox, you're increasing the number of lands that can cast disruption and you can now cast your disruption off of Dark Rituals. The down side is that you're making your Diminishing Returns and Ill Gotten Gains weaker and their Leyline of Sanctity stronger, but that may very well be addressed by SBing an Infernal Tutor at any stage of the match or SBing a set of Xantid Swarms.
The manabase is more flexible than people seem to think, I've experimented with combinations of gold lands and prefer four City of Brass because life, frankly, is not as relevant of a resource as land drops and TES rarely wins before turn 3 unchallenged.
Playing with Thoughtseize allows you to cut a discard spell from the SB, however arguing that cutting a discard spell from the SB eliminates your ability to wish for a discard spell is a pretty daft statement because you don't have to SB a discard spell in at all vs any match up. Even something as odd as Tropical Island reads "counter target Daze" or "counter target one half of a Spell Pierce" while actually having the decency to cast your spells as well.
3rd Chrome Mox slot is debateable, I've seen people cut it, I've seen people substitute it for Mox Diamond but I think the choice a lot of people have over looked is that Simian Spirit Guide is still a really fucking good accelerant in this deck regardless of the marginal increase in average casting cost.
For people who get irritated at Silence requiring a Gemstone Mine, there's no reason to go to an extreme and cut Silence entirely from the deck, you can play 3, 2 or 1 just as easily as you can play 4 or 0, and you can SB X copies of Silence just as easily as you can SB X copies of Xantid Swarm.
I really think people follow Bryant's list a little too closesly instead of thinking for themselves, a lot of the disruption and acceleration slots are pretty amalgamous and people should be encouraged to differentiate if for no other reason it makes Cabal Therapy a hell of a lot worse vs us if X% of TES players are playing 3 Silence, 2 Thoughtseize, 2 Cabal Therapy instead of 4 Silence, 3 Cabal Therapy
Ran the deck in a decent sized local tonight going 6-0-1 on the night. To be fair, I only played against one Force of Will deck. But the deck ran incredibly smoothly, Thoughtseize was insane versus Manaless Dredge.
Congratulations on your finishing Bryant! Facing only one FoW Deck in the whole tourney is really lucky :smile:.
Had you played against some Midrange Decks like Maverick, Rock or something else, too? I ask because,
i think tha tare the matchups were Thoughtseize would be better than all other discard, for picking out
hatebears, before they entering the board. Had you played one TS main and one in the sideboard, or two maindeck?
The list is in the OP dood ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinkhole
Yes of course! Just haven`t mentioned it, so I apologize for my scattiness. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Thought seize was very solid for me as well Wednesday despite my 0-2 finish. Got to probe, see an unbeatable Teeg, then brainstorm for a petal into TS. I mean therapy would've been fine as well in that situation, but blind a maverick deck can have one of a million hate bearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Blind-Name Thalia should be fine. It pretty unreal how good it is to follow up with EtW after disrupting your opponent with Therapy, just to mindtwist them after the Goblins hit the field. Won several games on the BoM with that interactionQuote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
blind cabal thalia he has gadock in hand and hoppefully you can cast ETW the same turn otherwise that would be another storyQuote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Thalia is a 3-/4-off, Teeg a one-off. You can Grapeshot Teeg easily unlike Thalia. I'll gamble on that all day of the week :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaycounet
I agree that thalia is the proper name blind. I'm just saying
3 questions that came up in a recent Legacy night at my LGS.
1. Against a deck running white (Plateau in Goblins, Maverick, D&T, Nic Fit with White, etc.), game one a blind Cabal Therapy obviously names Thalia. Games 2 and 3 are where I get tripped up. Is it best to still name Thalia, when Ethersworn Canonist could be the plan? What if you are in game 3 and you Probed and saw a Canonist game 2 in their hand? Blind are you naming Thalia, or Canonist.....
I went with Canonist, because I felt like I could play around Thalia, it would just take more time to sculpt a hand with more mana as well as on turns before the combo I can use a land or two to play Lotus Petal and Chrome Mox pre-combo turn. Canonist seems the better name when we have spell mana (Dark Rit, RoF), and Thalia seems better when we have Artifact mana (Lotus, Mox, LED). Canonist isn't a pain when we have all artifact mana, since we can play it all still, and then find a spell to use next turn... where Thalia makes all the artifacts slower. Canonist is a pain when we have all ritual effects and can't chain them together.
Discuss!
2. Game 2 against Nic Fit, do you keep this hand on the draw?
Thoughtseize, Chrome Mox, Rof, RoF, Dark Rit, Petal, Brainstorm.
I ended up shipping it back. If it had a land (fetch, gold, UB) I think I keep this hand with the turn 1 Thoughtseize and then depending on the 2 draws (this turn, next turn)... save the Brainstorm for the end of their turn 3, before our turn 3. If we brick and are not crazy lucky going off turn 2 with what we draw turns 1/2 the Brainstorm is held to be defensive against Cabal Therapy/flashback. The question there would be, do we Brainstorm turn 2 main phase, and hope to draw into an infernal tutor for the IT->AN, or do we wait and save the Brainstorm for safety of 2 rituals against Therapy? I don't know if with that hand it is better to be aggro and dig, or to wait another turn against a non blue opponent with no real clock yet.
Also, is it worth it to drop the Mox turn 1 (say we keep it), using Thoughtseize to have us a black mana source on board? That way we are getting rid of 2 cards to get closer to IT Hellbent, as well as having less cards in hand for them to Hymn/Therapy out.
Discuss more :)
3. Against a deck like Fish with no real "hard" removal, only counters, you bring in the Xatid Swarms and a Trop in. You Probe early and see 3 counters (FoW x2, Spell Pierce). You have a City of Brass and a Trop in play and a hand with 2 Silence, 1 Swarm. Since we can assume Swarm will stay on the field once it resolves, is it worth spending earlier turns trying to Silence (1) and then cast Swarm to get it to resolve? If they Spell P. the Silence we then run Swarm into FoW (1). The next turn if we are good to go we can Silence (2) again to pull out the 3rd counter, and then hope they haven't drawn extra counters? Or do we just hold the Silences for a super combo turn? We can't durdle against Fish since they can get a strong clock very quickly and make AN very risky.
Discuss again again.
I went 2-2 last night with the deck, and it proved I was a bit rusty with it after playing other decks while trying to figure out what I want from the GP. I punted a game against Fish where I went for the combo, made a crap ton of black mana with Dark Rit after probing and seeing a no counterspell hand, got Storm up to about 6 and hit Burning Wish to the board with.... 4B floating. In that situation I missed having IGG, but if I was smart, I would have waited until I could make a R and been able to get EtW from board and put a decent clock down. Is it worth it (when the mistake is too late to stop) and just get and cast Tendrils to deal a chunk of damage and then try and rebuild and Burning Wish into Grapeshot for the last 6 or so damage? This seems like the right idea, but I was dumb and instead got Cabal Therapy to take 2 Ethersworn Canonist from their hand and just passed back. I considered getting Past in Flames so that on a later turn I could replay all my ritual effects and try and combo out again for exact/more. Which is the correct play against an aggressive clock deck like Fish, that has counters (and you already dun goofed)?
Get Past in Flames to recast it later and try and recombo off? Get Tendrils and hit them for 16/gain 16, and try and Grapeshot them out in later turns?
Thanks everyone.
I'd almost always name Thalia, you can still play magic with canonists in play, most of the time with Thalia you have to burn too many resources to sculpt, kill her and then try to go off.
Against fish swarm is king so burning a silence to try to put it in play is fine but even if they force you are still probably fine. The average fish hand won't be good at both interacting and attacking at the same time and they have no way of building card advantage back up so making them burn 3 cards for 2 of yours is usually fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oSeabass
Lemnear: Fish = Merfolk, yes.
I think I was too aggressive shipping the hand back. I def. want to play the Petal turn 1 if I don't get a Blue land so I can Brainstorm in response to Therapy. I am super scared to keep the Petal/Brainstorm/no land hand. I am still learning that a mediocre 7, is probably better then a meh 6, and way better then any 5 (unless it is godly 5 which isn't going to happen).
Thanks
Maybe I misread the Silence+Xantid-question. IF your opponent has Pierce + double FoW + double Pitch aka 5 blue cards in total, your line of play is valid
It also greatly depends on board state
Yea, it was Fow x2, Pierce, Mutavault, Lord of Atlantis, Silvergil Adept, Island.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I ended up just running the Swarm out into the open 1st instead, it ended up getting countered. The next turn Silence was met by Fow. The next turn I tried to combo out but had Trop, Volc, Sea in play with some weird cards. Basically I was always 1 mana away in color to do anything. Needed an extra Red for EtW, needed a U instead of X to do Diminishing Returns, etc. I realized after the game the importance of the Swarm, and wished I had played the Silence first to try and force it into play. This way, if I land it, I am golden. If I don't and the next turn I Silence again for the combo turn, if they use the 2nd FoW there I have taken out of their hand with 2 Silence and Swarm: FoW x2, Pierece, Blue card, Blue Card.... which doesn't leave them much. Instead I tried to just play the Swarm which got Forced, and left too many threats in their hand to put a clock on me (2 turns later I needed the mana in a rush to not die to lethal swing the next turn).
I now realize the importance of Swarm in the mono Blue match, as well as the ability to strip 2 cards from their hand by the way of looking like I am starting the combo turn and forcing them into using cards early and slowing the clock.
-----------------------------------------------
Also, related to Fish (Merfolk)... is EtW a viable option? Say they have like 2-3 Fish in play, they are probably going to be at least 3/3's and making like 16 goblins might not get there. Say they play 1 the next turn (when you pass for non haste goblins), they have 4 on board and pass. You are now staring at 4 Merfolk on board, at least 3/3s (12+ damage on the swing back), and you have 16 1/1's. If you can survive the swing with a lot of life, it is still risky because another lord or 2 the net turn (they have mana now), can make the 3/3s 5/5s and really just kill you out of no where. To hedge you gotta hold Goblins back?
So swing with 14, hold 2 back to not hemorrhage life and die to a swing back, they block 4, take 10 and go to 10. You have 2 untapped, and 10 tapped Goblins. If they alpha strike, you block the biggest so you don't die, and can win on the swing back.... but if they drop another fish you can't deal lethal. SO once again you have 10 facing down 1-2 untapped and a board of 5/5s on their end that can end the game if a few get by....
Long question short. Is Goblins a winnable route against a deck like Fish or Goblins (Fish is more scary cus they grow too fast), that can just create a huge board presence very quickly and just threaten a lethal swing? If we wait another turn to try and find a perfect hand, they swing for too much and we lose a bunch and make AN very unlikely. Without Silence, Diminishing Returns is risky. With their clock, AN is bad. What I am trying to say is the Merfolk (FISH) match is very tough since they have a very strong clock that grows insanely quick, as well as multiple counterspells (hard and soft). Is there a good strategy I am just not seeing in the SB cards, or is this matchup really as bad as I think it is? I see it as a 40/60 at best if we get a great hand, 30/70 if we are "slow" or have to mulligan.
I never lost a single game to Meerfolk. Either they are completely defensive or try to race you with a single FoW or MBT held back. Both modes are pretty easy to dismember imo.
EtW is a valid option. I'm used to blind-name FoW with Therapy, drop Goblins and flashback for their Lords. Was always enough, but i'm curious about other peeps experience
With Therapy it seems good, but I had a slower hand which I think is what made it so tough. With a faster hand, being able to just Therapy before they can establish board presence seems elementary. I've had bad luck with the Blue Merfolk decks, and I probably need a lot more practice against decks like it, and RUG delver that have very good clocks as well as nice disruption.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
It's the fair deck's I'm not as worried about, but the aggro control matches that seem rough. Goblins was tough with a turn 2 Thalia and then a Ringleader and friends joining the party.
In my only recent matchup against the fish my experience was the same. Went 2-1 and lost the 1 only because I misplayed a mid-game Brainstorm not allowing me to get hellbent for the tutor in my hand. Merfolk doesn't play cantrips so they can't proactively dig/look for answers. Also because of deck construction there is usually less counters to fight through (typically no Stifles or Pierces). Finally, Swarm really shines post-board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
We were playing a list with 1 Cabal Therapy and 2 Duress main (+ some Therapies in the board).Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
This past Wednesday, Medadeus played 2 Thoughtseize over the Duresses mainboard, and they were relevant in this matchup where a Duress would have been much less so.
It felt fine to try since we've had a more creature-based meta lately, Teegs, Thalias, Canonists, etc have been showing up more than Force of Wills and Spell Pierces.
I still suggest to run more Therapy than Thoughtseize in your MB. I was used to run 3 Duress in the MB as discard spells until I realized a) how good mindtwisting your opponent after EtW is to reduce their possible outs and b) how important the option to create some cardadvantage can be in this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by haganbmj
It was awesome for my mate and me all the weekend at the BoM. I urge anyone to test the 3/1 MB/SB split themselves. You'll love it.
I'll definitely be giving it a shot going forward with the deck. Cabal is a powerful card with relevance at all points in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Had an interesting decision point today with TES. I'll lay out the scenario and hopefully we can get some discussion of it. I'll wait to say how it worked out for a day or so.
So it's game 3 against a relatively inexperienced Reanimator pilot. I had boarded out Empty, Silence, IT, for Swarm x2, Thoughtseize (list is stock except trying Carpet for Trop). (Critiques on boarding are welcome.) Game two I saw him board 7 or 8 cards and that he had boarded into at least some number of Show and Tells.
I have 2 RoF, BW, LED, Silence in hand; Volc, Sea, LP in play. He has LP, 2 Seas (1 untapped), it's several turns in, and he has BS and an unknown in hand. He's at 17.
In my graveyard I have Therapy, 2 GP, Ponder, BS, and some lands; he has a Reanimate (pitched to Study) and no men.
I cast Silence, he cast BS, lets it resolve. As I see them, relevant lines are Empty for 14 and Therapy him (and what do you name?), Diminishing Returns with Sea and R up, or Past in Flames with the same mana up.
What line do you take and why?
Do you have a land drop for the turn? And he only has two cards after resolving Brainstorm?Quote:
Originally Posted by phazonmutant
I think you have about a 50% chance to win on the spot with Diminishing Returns (I didn't look this up, since I'm assuming I'm in your situation with no access to the primer), but if you whiff, I think you're an underdog (maybe 20% to win since the matchup doesn't seem all that favorable). Since he doesn't have any creatures in the yard, you're not getting any value out of casting Diminishing Returns reshuffling his graveyard. Also, I think you have a better than 60% chance at winning this with Goblins.
Past in Flames with U/B + R up would allow you to see five cards off two Probes and a Ponder, plus a sixth unknown if you choose to shuffle. You don't have any way of generating black mana from your known cards, so this is only better than the Goblins line if (1) you can hit Ritual + Wish/Tendrils (or Tutor with a way to get hellbent) in the three cantrips you get or (2) you can hit Wish to enable more Goblins to represent a one turn clock.
Assuming optimum play from your opponent, which may not be possible, the fact that he did not respond to your Silence tells me that he doesn't have any taxing counters. He probably didn't see a Force of Will off the Brainstorm either, although it's possible that he's gambling on you not being able to kill him this turn and elected to stack his deck in order to go off on his turn. There are some things to consider:
- It's likely he doesn't have Entomb, or he would have cast it in response to your Silence. However, it's possible that he has two different reanimate effects in hand and stacked Entomb on top of his library to ensure that he can go off on his turn with the perfect fatty of choice, winning regardless of what you name with a single blind Therapy. Alternatively, he may be trying to dissuade you from going with Diminishing Returns by representing that he doesn't have anything valuable to be reshuffled in hand/graveyard/top of library, but I wouldn't expect a "relatively inexperienced pilot" to next level you like that.
- It's possible that he could have resolved the Brainstorm as follows: fatty in hand + blank, which Careful Study and Reanimate effect on top of library protected from discard. Empty for 14 outraces any creature they can have besides Elesh Norn, Blazing Archon, or Sphinx of the Steel Wind, but it's highly unlikely they would keep the latter two in against you.
I would assume he did not have a way to bin a creature and reanimate it in his hand pre-Brainstorm, or he would have almost certainly cast it on his previous turn (I think it's entirely worth it to play into a Silence if you don't have Exhume + Entomb). He may have had Entomb but was holding it to wait on the Reanimate effect or to use it to shuffle off Brainstorm, or he may have had Careful Study but didn't have a creature until he cast Brainstorm. However, I don't think the chances that he hit whatever he was missing off Brainstorm is especially high, so I like the Empty plan better than the alternatives.
As for what to name, if he has Elesh Norn + another fatty in hand, stacking Careful Study and a reanimate effect on top, you lose on the spot, so it's not worth playing around that. You also lose to two reanimate effects in hand with Entomb on top, so don't play around that. He cannot stack Entomb and Reanimate on top, waiting to draw both without a cantrip, since a single swing would inactivate Reanimate. It is conceivable he could do this with Exhume, so he's more likely to hide an Exhume than a Reanimate. Therefore, I'd name Reanimate with Cabal Therapy. (It is also possible he found another cantrip, possibly with land in hand, and can play Entomb + Reanimate on his next turn as well, so it may be appropriate to name a cantrip, but I think it gets pretty weak here.)
I think it's important not to get polarized on disruption, 4 Silence, 4 Cabal Therapy has an informational disadvantage game one 50% of the time despite being strong there after, where 4 Silence, 2 Cabal Therapy, 2 Thoughtseize can keep 1 Cabal Therapy in the MD, 1 Cabal Therapy in the SB and then swap out the 1 Cabal Therapy in the SB for a Thoughtseize if need be and you don't have to worry about being on the wrong side of a coin flip.
I may end up going for 3 Silence, 2 Cabal Therapy, 2 Thoughtseize with a SB Cabal Therapy and Xantid Swarms tho'.
Boarding discard for discard is a waste of SB space atm as I'm curious how you fit in 8 protection spells in your MB. If I have to fire Therapy blind for a T1/T2 kill I gladly name FoW (or MBT against non-blue) which are likely the only cards that matter here. The longer game 1 goes because you've lost the dice or the opponent building a counterwall, the better Therapy gets. This is moreover a painful fact once you face the later paired with a clock like Delver..Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
Fetch Telemin Performance and see your opponent rage-quit as you take his Griselbrand to kill him or lock him out with Iona, Jin-Gitaxias or other nonsenseQuote:
Originally Posted by phazonmutant
I once added the Telemin for the reason to not being forced to spin the Dim.Returns-Roulette against combo
Lemnear's remnark that he didn't like Silence as much as he used to pushed me to try my own three colour hybrid TES list at the tournament yesterday. Let me write a very brief report and my fiundings on the list. The tourney was attended by 36 people, but the prize support was great, so it did attract quite a few strong local players.
My weapon of choice:
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Infernal Tutor
3 Burning Wish
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Ad Nauseam /21
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Chrome Mox
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame /18
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy /7
3 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
3 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire /14
Side:
1 Tendrils of Agony
2 Empy the Warrens
1 Past in Flames.
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Burning Wish
1 Grapeshot.
1 Shattering Spree
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Thoughtseize
4 Chain of Vapor /15
Idea of the list: more fetch improves cantrips, more land reduces no-land mulligans. So the list aims to be able to go off more or less at TES speed, but with slightly improved redundancy, at the cost of the splash colours, so my sideboard is worse and I have no access to Silence. Discard will have to do.
Round 1 against Sneak&Show: lost 0-2. Game 1 he topdecked like a maniac from a totally lost position. Game 2 I drew 5 discard spells against his Leyline of Sanctity. One of the games I had to mull because I couldn't find a land. Not a very awesome round.
Round 2 against Canadian Thresh: won 2-1. Game 1 I fought through a FoW and a large amount of soft counters, but I managed to get there with EtW. Game 2 I couldn't find a discard spell for his Flusterstorm, and his guys got there. Game 3 he had no real clock, but a hand full of blue cards. I fought through all of them to get 8 goblins from an in hand EtW, but I couldn't kill him with them because time in the round was called a turn too soon. But... in turn 5 I cantripped into the nuts and Grapeshot his last life away. Luck to compensate for last round.
Round 3 against OmniHalls: lost 1-2. Game 1 is rather long: I disrupt his combo, create Goblins, dsrupt further, while he Wishes for Echoingv Truth to get rid of the army, but afterwards I just go off against his empty hand. Game 2 and 3 are equally awkward with me trying to fight through his permission, making goblins that get Echoing Thruthed, but not finding enough stuff to either go off myself through his newly drawn permission, or to stop him. One of the games contained a frustrating four turns of draw-go which ended when he Brainstormed into a protected combo kill. Very awkward round, perhaps with some mistakes on my side.
Round 4 against TES (TomT): lost 0-2. Both games I draw very awkward hands. He is on the play game 1 and has a Silence. When I Duress, he manages to hide his good stuff, and he just goes off turn 2. Game 2 I end up with all Probes and both Moxen, which I have to try to get rid of. I fail to cantrip into anything, and my only option is to create 14 goblins with a very crafty turn full of casting rediculously bad cards. The next turn he goes off with Ad Nauseam, and when I see he has me, I start to help him and we end up with 148 goblins on his side to match my 14, and a Grapeshot of 49 on my head. :eek:
Round 5 against TES again: won 2-0. Game one I am on the play and I Duress his Infernal away. He has Silence and a Petal still, but if I took Silence he would just have gone off turn one, so I had no choice. His turn consisted of land->Ponder, go. Major mistake to not play the Petal, because now he had no way to interact with my turn. I punished the mistake by going off. Game 2 I wreck his hand. At some point I miscalculate one mana, and pass the turn when I could have gone off. He punishes it by drawing a Wish and go off via Past in Flames. At some point he notices he needs to get hellbent for his flashback Infernal, but he has just Pondered into a Silence he cannot cast. Turned out this was his first time ever playing Legacy, or TES for that matter. He is happy with the lessons learned, and afterwards we talk a bit about important parts of playing Storm.
Round 6 against Maverick: won 2-0. Game 1 is rediculous. He is on the play and starts Forest->Hierarch. I have a slow hand and start land->Ponder. He topdecks Thalia and casts it, but stumbles on mana. I play many lands, Wish for Grapeshot and destroy both the Hierarch and the Thalia on turn 4, while he gets SFM and a Jitte in play. I bruned many resources and have to settle for 8 goblins. He at some point finds a new mana guy, but no lands. The turn after casting his new mana guy he decides to equip Jitte instead of casting a new Thalia. This mistake is punished by me Therapying Thalia away. He proceeds to kill most of my guys and build a board with his freshly drawn land, and when I am on 6 life I find the means to go off with Infernal. At this point I have all six lands on the table, but no life from Ad Nauseam, and no rituals for PiF or Gains. Natural spell chain also isn't an option because of his Jitte counters (4 more life). I have to settle for Reforge the Soul and brick (Infernal but no way to go hellbent). I pass, he hits me to 3 life and I have to kill him now or I just die. I proceed to cantrip 5 times, and the very last Ponder, after shuffling, finds me the LED I need to win. I cast my rituals and LED, infernal for my last Wish for Tendrils in a 12 Storm natural spell chain on turn 20 or so. YEAH! Game 2 he mulls to six and starts Forest, Zenith for Arbor. I start Petal into Brainstorm. I put AdN on top, cast 2x LED, Probe-respons sac both LEDs, cast AdN into a nice kill. That's more like it. :tongue:
Findings:
1. I really missed Swarm and Silence!
2. Other than the issue mentioned in 1, the deck plays out really nicely.
3. My draw skills are terrible. I draw way too many awkward hands.
Over all I would recommend we stick to rainbow lands, Silences and Swarms. There are just too many mirror matches and Show and Tell decks around to drop the five colour build. Also, I cantrip into crap anyway, so why bother improving cantrips with more fetch anyway? :cool:
I start feeling there was a misunderstanding: I do love Silence. I just don't like drawing it against various hate (hatebears+Counter+discard) after losing the dice all day which happend in the BoM Mainevent over and over again
Well, I wanted to try this list for some time now, and I reconed this was a good moment. It turned out it wasn't. :tongue:
Anyway, losing dice rolls is part of the game. This touney I lost 4 and won only 2, though I feel it often didn't matter that much.
Better than winning 3 out of 14 dicerolls like I did on BoM ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
True. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Anyway, I had a fierce discussion with the four Probes in my deck, and decided one should go. As awesome as it is to review my notes and almost always know what my opponents are holding, drawing multiple Probes just messes up my planning, because I never know what I'll draw off them, which makes mulligan decisions virtually impossible to optimize. And since my poker skills are absolutely terrible, I feel the need to optimize my ability to calculate odds.
My list is now the OP, except for -1 Probe, +1 fetch, and 4x Silence, 3x Duress as main deck protection package.
The sideboard holds a third Swarm, a Tropical Island, 2x Chain, 2x Decay and a Duress to Wish for. I decided to hold on to Gains, simply because I used it more often than Past in Flames in last testing round.
I was on the fence about IGG but I got burned by my own stupidity by it so I'd cut it.
What do you guys think of a singleton Karakas in the board? My meta is full of bears with hate, and I've tested it in ANT where it is very good.
Before BoM the topic crossed our mind, but the slots it competes with are likely the Chains, which are more useful overall as Bryant was kind to outline in a PMQuote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
@Asthereal:
You should go to therapy with the Probes and fix your relationship (Pun intended). The worse your poker skills are, the better Probe is imo.
I however can't argue against the 3 MB Duress per sé as I once ran those myself, but the changing metagame with more hatebears and very tight play made the shift necessary to a) hit creatures, b) create cardadvantage in grindy matchups (especially while playing 8-vs.-7-cards) and c) to manover less goblins to a victory by stripping your opponents outs/cantrips.
As long as Goblins are the most common Route to victory (like in the current metagame with lots of UWR Delver, RUG Delver, Esperblade, Deathblade), Therapy is pure cardadvantage and completely negates SFM->Batterskull which was a common backbreaker for our aggro-routine.
Once you rode the Macho Madness with Probe +Therapy + EtW going, you'll never wanna go back, bother! Uhhhh yeeeeeeah! ;D