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Could have a discard outlet of some sort. Liliana probably would be fine here. That does seem like an issue. Though if loaming, I may be able to just get up to 8 cards and discard. Also Sylvan Library may help mitigate how often I draw Prog at times as well.
Unburial Rites? For what, Sigarda?
Yeah it is poor. Probably should be a Volrath's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore
Hopefully I can get cards together for a similar but not quite as terrible brew. If I do and I get to play it, I'll let everyone know how bad it is.
Probably audibling to 4 color burning Loam for next weekend because I don't fell like playing storm again. Any changes you guys think should be made? My only thoughts are -1 Perish, +1 Toxic Deluge
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Tarmogoyf
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Burning Wish
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Life From the Loam
2 Sylvan Library
3 Punishing Fire
2 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Devastating Dreams
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Badlands
4 Wasteland
1 Nantuko Monastery
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith
2 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Tranquil Thicket
2 Forgotten Cave
1 Basic Forest
Sideboard:
3 Thalia
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Slaughtergames
1 Life From the Loam
1 Dreadbore
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Hull Breach
1 Reverent Silence
1 Chainers Edict
1 Massacre
1 Devastating Dreams
1 Perish
I like it, but no Edicts G1 vs. Sneak and Show seems rough. Miss Revokers in side too; Hull Breach seems important, but Massacre and Deluge seem redundant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
The sneak and show match up is not very good in the first place. I could see maybe a smallpox or two main however. Doesn't seem completely awful. Massacre is pretty great vs death and taxes and the true name decks. Deluge is strong vs basically all decks. That slot used to be perish, but deluge seems better considering all of my men are green. I suppose it doesn't kill progenitus if it has hit me once.
I crashed and Burned at the open. It overall was just simply a poor choice.
Round 1 I played vs Esper Blade and I won because I knew he wasn't playing wasteland and I could simply put out any lands I wanted to without fear of getting wasted. I did lose Game 2 due to TNN +Jitte I believe. Game 3 I wasted him off of double blue and eventually devstated his dreams.
Round 2 was vs Sneak and Show. Game 1 He opens on fetch island, ponder. I assume Sneak and Show but have miracles in mind. He simply T3 SnTs and I have nothing I can do about it. Game 2 He has a T3 Petal (after I wasted his volcanic) to SHow and Tell. I put in KOTR. He puts in Sneak. He has the second petal to Emrakul me and I scoop.
Round 3 was vs Miracles. Game 1 went long. Like 25~ minutes. I destroy his counterbalance a few times (he was playing 4) and he can't find a 3 on top to counter my KOTR. I just beat him down with Dryad arbor after KOTR bites it to STP and eventually find my Nantuko Monastery. I get him low and he entreats for 3 at 5 life to triple block my monastery. I loam it back, get hit by an angel, and next turn devastate for 4. He scoops. Game 2 I dont remember that well. I bring in my Slaughter Games though and Games his entreats so I cant die like that. It goes a little long though and RIP keeps me off of Recurring PFire and he simply takes me down with VClique beats. Game 3 was begun with ~8 minutes left and we both agreed (since we knew each other locally) that we would scoop to the other if one was dominating. He got out a Jace and I couldnt get anything overly powerful going. I tried to just beat with Grey Ogre KOTRs (due to RIP) and he had 3 STPs for all of my men. I think if we had time I may have had a show because I would have played less aggressively. I gave him the game.
Round 4 was vs UW Death and Taxes ish. G1 he gets Vial and My wastelands are basically useless vs his shoddy manabase. He gets BSkull down and Spirit and then finally a Geist of Saint Traft. I just can't stabilize quickly enough. Game 2 I make an egregious error. I have a Bayou on board with KOTR, and I intend to keep it around for when I'm sure he gets TNN on board and I need it to massacre. He revokers my KOTR and I inresponse sacrifice Bayou (derp) and get something and he gets TNN down and despite me wasting all of his lands, His Vialed in Mom, Revoker and TNN just beat me because I can't attack and TNN just whittle me down.
Overall the deck felt alright, but not great. It was a bad choice since I can't usually beat a TNN. Goyf as usual was better than Bob. SB was fine. Just overall a poor deck decision.
There is a reason I stopped playing my beloved child :(
~Jeff
I was in denial of it being poorly positioned... The only legacy deck I have every truly loved playingQuote:
Originally Posted by JeffHoogland
I too hung it up in The ever so competitive Syracuse meta. I hope I get to dust it off again someday but for now it's back to bug and D&T...
I am just building towards lands in hopes that gives me a similar feeling towards how games get to play out...
I haven't done well with Loam either, but unfortunately the only other Legacy deck I have is Goblins, which also sucks right now. I can't really justify building anything else with the ridiculous price jumps, legacy is damn expensive.
If you have Goblins and Loam, one could reasonably assume you would be fairly close to lands (assuming fully optimized versions of both decks)Quote:
Originally Posted by Blakroc
I don't know if this kind of post is welcome here, and if it isn't of value or doesn't spawn a discussion I'll delete it or w.e
Tomorrow evening I'm going to a small legacy tournament for which I'll know most of the meta. I've been playing 4 color loam for a while and since not many people play TNN decks, I've mostly been fine. I basically want to see if I can have a deck that has better matchups against my meta, and also might solve the TNN problem.
The decks I might be playing:
mono-red Goblins, reanimator,high tide,DDFT,Elves, Jund,Nic Fit,LED Dredge,Pox/Hivemind, 1-2 unknown possibly on combo.
What follows is a very rough list that has done decently well in about a day's worth of testing.
Sorcery (11)
4x Burning Wish
2x Chainer's Edict
3x Life from the Loam
2x Smallpox
Instant (6)
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Punishing Fire
Enchantment (2)
2x Sylvan Library
Creature (3)
3x Dark Confidant
Artifact (8)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
Planeswalker (3)
3x Liliana of the Veil
Land (28)
2x Badlands
2x Barren Moor
2x Bayou
1x Forest
2x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
1x Mutavault
2x Taiga
3x Tranquil Thicket
1x Treetop Village
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
4x Wooded Foothills
Sideboard (15)
1x Chainer's Edict
2x Choke
1x Devastating Dreams
1x Dreadbore
1x Life from the Loam
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Massacre
1x Reverent Silence
1x Shattering Spree
1x Slaughter Games
3x Sphere of Resistance
1x Toxic Deluge
I'm playing smallpox as an extra edict that is live against high tide and takes the deck in a more 'pox' direction from which LftL helps us recover. The only creatures I'm playing at the moment are bobs because they replace themselves. the deck is relatively threat light, relying on a stronger lock (wastelands, lili, chalice, pfire) to grind out the game with the 2 manlands or recurring punishing fires. The lack of RIP helps this plan to some degree.
There have been times where I've wanted to have a knight to bash face or to tutor up a land or two, and some games that I felt went on for longer than they should have, but there were also plenty where I was a "t1 bob into 1 billion wastelands" or "I have lili and mox, you have nothing" deck.
No idea what to do against Nic Fit, Dredge, and Hivemind.
I've considered playing 1-2 living wish for karakas and Tabernacle.
Oddballs:
I'm playing Chainer's Edict because Sneak & Show doesn't exist here.
I'm playing choke because I feel that I need a piece of interaction that high tide can't just Hurkyl's Recall.
The Burning Wish targets are not where I want then to be. I might cut Dreadbore or Chainer's Edict for something else.
Feel free to tell my why the deck is bad, how I should be building the deck to combat that meta, the viability of playing a bunch of edicts to beat TNN, manabase stuff, suggestions to actually win the game, etc. Any feedback would be appreciated whether or not it helps me not lose tomorrow.
Thanks for reading
Seems like a nice, but glacially slow, list. I've been durdling with the traditional 4C Loam package with a couple of Terriblevores and Marit Lage to combat TNN. Your meta seems pretty combo heavy (I'm so sorry ;_;) so I think being able to quickly win with Marit Lage occasionally may be a little better than poking them to death with a Mutavult. Are the two manlands in your list more useful than just having Stage/Depths? I suppose the manlands being capable of functioning independently is decent. You may also want to up the Grove of the Burnwillows count since you can't tutor for them.
I think the Chainer's Edicts in the main are actually not good if your prediction of your meta is correct. Just glancing over the list the Edict is only live against Jund and maybe Reanimator. Without a way to tutor for Maze/Karakas and such a slow clock I think your G1 matchup against Reanimator is going to be pretty miserable even if Edict resolves. Ultimately I think you're in an awkward spot between discard-less Pox and extremely threat-light 4C Loam. I feel like trying to win with un-tutorable manlands and PFire are just too slow, especially with no Devastating Dreams main to buy you time.
At work so I can't go into much detail atm, but there are things I like and don't like about your list. I'll elaborate later, however tyrio hit on all counts there, though I still honestly don't like depths in aggro loam
Yeah tutoring up Marit Lage with Knight t3-5ish kills in about the same amount of time as an unmolested Knight attacking so it is a little redundant (and of course makes your awkward mana even worse). It does allow the Knight to play defense though and makes her a little better against RiP. It also lets her be more useful against TNN. T2/3 Knight alongside a Thespian Stage is a great clock.
There's also some sweet hands where you just assemble Thepths naturally alongside your other pressure and it's just too much for most decks to handle. Freeing Marit Lage also powers up Terriblevore for maximum overkill \o/
Sorry for the short post. I think what your deck really wants to be is more like the old school builds with Seismic Assault. Either that or the Jund Depths deck that has been alright on the SCG circuit lately. I don't remember the exact list, but my buddy had Seismic Loam a few years ago and it is what made me fall in love with the strategy. SOmething like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by apocolyps6
4 Mox
4 Chalice
4 Loam (No WIsh Board)
3 Liliana
4 Bob
3 Seismic Assault
30~ Lands
Like I said, I dont remember the exact list but it was something like that. I'm sure if you look back 20 pages or so he will have it listed. That just seems more like what you are moving towards with this build.
the chainer's edicts are a holdover from 4color loam. Now that I have lili + smallpox the reanimator matchup has become a lot better. Like "I've played a couple matches yesterday and lost 1 game total from turn t1 griz + force, t2 elesh" better.
They are dead in all of the other combo matchups so cutting them sounds like an okay idea. Is Engineered Explosives any better here? Perhaps 2x Scroll Rack?
-1 taiga +1 grove.
I'm not a huge fan of Marit Lage, especially here where I have no tutors. The combo decks wont really care about my turn 4 20/20, and the current manlands at least cast reactive spells while I can't use them for anything else. If I could play exploration I'd totally Lage it up tho.
considering -1 Mutavault, -1 Urborg, +2 mishra's factories
I cut Devastating Dreams from the main because I feel like the card is at its best with knight/goyf and against vermin. Punishing Fire is good enough against goblins and elves that I'm not concerned there, high tide can force my dreams, smallpox sort of functions in the same roll with creature and basic land control at the low low cost of making life from the loam better. (having 2 in your hand at the same time is a bitch tho).
perhaps the deckbuilding restrictions the smallpox enforces (heavier black, fewer creatures, etc) arn't worth it in the long run? I feel the card is responsible for a large chunk of both the strengths and weaknesses of this deck.
Edit: Seismic Assault might be the win con I'm looking for. I don't expect a huge number of abrupt decays.
I think that might be where the deck as a whole wants to be right now. It looks like the format has mostly moved away from RiP main, so with Seismic or P.Fires + Liliana TNN shouldn't be as much of a problem. I kinda want to play Loam again because it's so damn fun, just debating trying to include Chalice or going straight up old school Tony Jund with the added bonuses of DRS and Decay. I think Fires is probably stronger than Assault now because of the prevalence of Decay and Golgari Charm, but it does slightly increase reliance on the yard. It's at least still a generic burn spell postboard if your Loams get Surgical'd though. Also, Koth in the board. Maybe main. Koth is the man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Edit: also where the hell has Tony been?